Talk:2022 Kyrgyzstan–Tajikistan clashes

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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• Attack of Tajikistan on the population of Kyrgyzstan 2022.png

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:07, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Attack of Tajikistan on the population of Kyrgyzstan 2022.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:07, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion:

• A man hugs his son in one of the settlements of the Batken region after the shelling by Tajikistan.jpg
• The shelling led to the death of people, dozens of wounded. Residential houses.webp
• Unexploded shell on the highway in one of the villages of Batken region.webp

You can see the reasons for deletion at the file description pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:22, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Drone Strike on a Mosque

I've tried to verify (via Internet search) that shocking claim in the Escalation subsection: no evidence of factual offending the mosque found (only 'Information' from the Tajik side, except the very Tajik crackdown on unofficial mosques in the top of the websearch output). However someone has already wrote this strike in History of Ovchiqal'acha on Wikipedia citing a Bishkek-based reporter Danil Usmanov, who is (was) in the conflict zone. Meanwhile the same reporter disclaimed about "no visual evidence has yet been produced to substantiate that claim".
In my opinion, it would be better if the concerned claim might be clarified. Tosha Langue (talk) 10:36, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

References

Scope of article unclear

I believe this article needs to be clearer about whether it refers to all clashes in 2022 between the two countries or only to the clashes beginning September 14. In the infobox, it refers only to the September clashes, whereas the lead and body of the article appear to cover all of 2022 (with 2021 appearing in the Background section). I don't have a strong opinion about what the scope should be, but it should be consistent. If it is only September, the page will probably need a new title. Gazelle55 (talk) 17:53, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

The minimal way is to add a respective note to the infobox, @Gazelle55, I think... Tosha Langue (talk) 10:05, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your response, Tosha Langue, but I'm not sure I understand. You mean edit the infobox to say this began in January rather than on September 14? Gazelle55 (talk) 15:53, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Unsourced analysis removed...

I've removed the following unsourced text from the article:

"The timing of the clashes suggests that Russia's military commitment in its invasion of Ukraine and recent push for even more commitment has emboldened sides in frozen conflicts of post-Soviet states where its military acts as a security guarantor maintaining the status quo as Russia may not currently have the means or will to do so. See also the September 2022 Armenia–Azerbaijan clashes."

To be clear, I'm not saying this is necessarily wrong, and there's actually likely some truth to this....I'm not sure if I'd describe it as Russia "pushing" for more commitment, but it is likely that other FSU states are looking to do stuff while Russia's distracted, and Western intelligence may also be helping to instigate some of these clashes to over extend Russia, a strategy which RAND has discussed: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html

The problem is though that this paragraph cited no sources, so it was completely the original research of whoever wrote it. So we need a citation with analysis to that effect before putting it back into the article. -2003:CA:8733:53B0:9992:2999:EE3E:4113 (talk) 10:48, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Edit Warring over Casualties

It seems like there has been ongoing edit warring here for the past month over the number of casualties and how exactly to describe them. Part of this seems to stem from the fact that different disputed sources exist, and there are pretty major discrepancies between the claims from the Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan governments. I propose listing both estimates in the infobox (with clear citations), possibly alongside a neutral third party estimate if one exists (alternatively, just using the neutral estimate would probably be fine, but I suspect there's political challenges in selecting an ideal one). There's also been some edit warring over whether or not to list injuries and damaged/destroyed military equipment in the infobox. I propose listing injuries but not damaged equipment; I couldn't find any guidelines on this in the Manual of Style but it seems to track with what other battle pages have done. Either way, please stop back-and-forth reverts and discuss this here so we can build a consensus on what information should be included and how to present it. Thanks! Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 19:49, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Since there hasn't been any discussion here for a couple of days, I'm going to move the infobox text back to the original text which listed multiple claims and cited them. The current numbers are uncited (citation is only a domain) and clearly contested. Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 06:54, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

FYI to people editing to replace the 41 killed next to "(per Tajikistan)" with any other number, I'm not an expert in anything related to this conflict, but I don't think the Radio Odezi source says the Tajikistan government has made any claim other than 41. What I see currently on that page is Власти Таджикистана сообщили о гибели 41 человека в ходе вооруженного конфликта на границе с Кыргызстаном, однако список погибших не обнародовали which seems to translate into The Tajik authorities reported the death of 41 people during the armed conflict on the border with Kyrgyzstan, but the list of the dead was not made public. Radio Odeza's list is longer, but the government claim still seems to be 41, unless someone has a more current source. Let me know if I'm reading this wrong; I don't speak Russian and am using Google Translate here. Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 23:26, 25 October 2022 (UTC)