Talk:Adolf Hitler
Latest comment: 3 days ago by Pincrete in topic Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 October 2024
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Ancestry -- reduced edit request --- scholarship by Leonard Sax
edit | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please add this paragraph to the end of the Ancestry section --
More recent scholarship by Leonard Sax points out contemporary historians have largely dismissed Hitler's Jewish heritage based on "a single historian, Nikolaus von Preradovich" a Nazi sympathizer, and that "The hypothesis that Hitler’s paternal grandfather was Jewish, as claimed by Hans Frank, may fit the facts better than the alternative hypothesis that Hitler’s paternal grandfather was Johann Georg Hiedler or Johann Nepomuk Hiedler." [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] 98.46.117.2 (talk) 13:27, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- oh really??? 103.190.13.22 (talk) 09:07, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- If you are referring to the DNA study published in the Daily Telegraph in 2010; the study was actually inconclusive. The haplogroup in question is found among some Jewish sects, but is much more common in North African Berber tribes with no trace of Jewish ancestry. Mediatech492 (talk) 19:39, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ https://doi.org/10.1177/0047244119837477
- ^ https://www.leonardsax.com/JES_MS.pdf
- ^ https://www.leonardsax.com/who-was-hitlers-grandfather-why-should-you-care/
- ^ https://www.amazon.com/ANGESICHT-GALGENS-Erkenntnisse-Geschrieben-Justizgef%C3%A4ngnis-ebook/dp/B0797WXN4Z/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
- ^ https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Nikolaus_von_Preradovich?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc
- ^ https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/study-suggests-adolf-hitler-was-a-quarter-jewish-597966
- This is covered at Frankenberger thesis. Moxy🍁 13:59, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- Hitler Ancestry section suggests that Hitler's father Alois was the son of one of the Hiedler brothers, and dismisses the Frankenberger thesis. The last entry in this section should be the latest research by Sax, which was just recently added to the Frankenberger thesis article. Sax shows that Jews were present but not registered in Graz at the time of Alois' conception.
- "a claim that came to be known as the Frankenberger thesis. No Frankenberger was registered in Graz during that period, no record has been produced of Leopold Frankenberger's existence, so historians dismiss the claim that Alois's father was Jewish." 98.46.117.2 (talk) 15:27, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- There's now two of us that object to adding this: myself and Moxy. We don't need to expand on the Frankenberger thesis in the Hitler article; we've already said that historians reject the thesis that Hitler was part Jewish; if people want more info on this topic they can go to Frankenberger thesis. — Diannaa (talk) 15:39, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- Then a compromise would be to remove the following text from the Ancestry section ...
- "No Frankenberger was registered in Graz during that period, no record has been produced of Leopold Frankenberger's existence, so historians dismiss the claim that Alois's father was Jewish." 67.173.189.111 (talk) 17:07, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- There's now two of us that object to adding this: myself and Moxy. We don't need to expand on the Frankenberger thesis in the Hitler article; we've already said that historians reject the thesis that Hitler was part Jewish; if people want more info on this topic they can go to Frankenberger thesis. — Diannaa (talk) 15:39, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
Not done .... Will require consensus.Moxy🍁 20:07, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 October 2024
edit| | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I believe that the Category:Historical figures with ambiguous or disputed sexuality should be added to this article. I also added it to Sexuality of Adolf Hitler. Rylee Amelia (talk) 09:12, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: The edit request template is not for starting a discussion on whether to add that category; that
canmust be done without the template. 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 15:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)- Alright, I'll keep that in mind next time I'm suggesting an edit on a protected article. This reply doesn't clarify whether or not the category should be added to this article. Do you believe there is enough historical debate to warrant this inclusion? Rylee Amelia (talk) 16:57, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Given the removal of (Category:Artists who died by suicide) and (Category:Austrian male painters), I don’t find a crucial need for (Historical figures with ambiguous or disputed sexuality). 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 19:12, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- We usually define an artist/painter/actor/writer etc as someone who has actually done these activities professionally. Hitler didn't at any point, therefore he is "not meaningfully an artist or painter". It is probably true that Churchill sold more paintings than AH, but we don't list him as an artist or painter since it was never a profession. That AH aspired to being a painter is probably one of the best known factoids about him.
- I'm neutral about the "ambiguous" sexuality category, on the one hand there has been much speculation, on the other most historians simply think he was 'straight' albeit possessive etc.. Pincrete (talk) 15:55, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- Aren't you the one who made the edit request? Generally one would expect you to have sources that substantiate it, instead of expecting others to make your case for you. Remsense ‥ 论 19:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Given the removal of (Category:Artists who died by suicide) and (Category:Austrian male painters), I don’t find a crucial need for (Historical figures with ambiguous or disputed sexuality). 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 19:12, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Alright, I'll keep that in mind next time I'm suggesting an edit on a protected article. This reply doesn't clarify whether or not the category should be added to this article. Do you believe there is enough historical debate to warrant this inclusion? Rylee Amelia (talk) 16:57, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
Place of death?
editWhy is the place of death listed as “Nazi Germany?” Is it not just Germany? I live in the United States where, at writing, a democrat is president. If I die today, is it appropriate to list my place of death as “Democrat United States?” Thank you. 216.193.129.252 (talk) 13:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Whist I have some sympathy, we go by what tRS say, and RS makes the distinction. Slatersteven (talk) 14:21, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Ah! Thank you very much for the explanation. 216.193.129.252 (talk) 22:01, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, I believe, it's WP editors that make that choice - a stylistic rather than factual one. Apart from anything else, RS would tend to say he died in Berlin, or more specifically in the 'Führerbunker', since by that stage in their narrative the sources will have established that the 'Führerbunker' was in Berlin in Germany. We've discussed this issue several times, but I can't remember when most recent was, or what was resolved. Personally, like the IP, I find it mildly annoying and potentially misleading.Pincrete (talk) 04:09, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for your reply. I’m happy to have learned about the root of the choice. Like you, I find it just mildly annoying. It appeared to me to be somewhat inaccurate yet the page is locked from modification, so I thought that it must be intentional or else it wouldn’t have been locked-in that way. Again, I appreciate your response. 216.193.129.252 (talk) 22:56, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, I believe, it's WP editors that make that choice - a stylistic rather than factual one. Apart from anything else, RS would tend to say he died in Berlin, or more specifically in the 'Führerbunker', since by that stage in their narrative the sources will have established that the 'Führerbunker' was in Berlin in Germany. We've discussed this issue several times, but I can't remember when most recent was, or what was resolved. Personally, like the IP, I find it mildly annoying and potentially misleading.Pincrete (talk) 04:09, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- Ah! Thank you very much for the explanation. 216.193.129.252 (talk) 22:01, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with Pincrete - it's become more of a WP convention than following RS. I really don't see the RS making a material distinction between Nazi Germany and Germany as the place of Hitler's death (or actauly any other event that happened between 1933 and 1945). It's one of those many nomenclature issues that WP editors tend to get worked up about. Bike sheds. DeCausa (talk) 00:01, 3 November 2024 (UTC)