Talk:Choi Kwang Do

Plagiarists of Choi Kwang Do

how many students across the world train in one martial art and then another, I have trained 6 different martial arts, its very common, shall we list every Tae kwon do, Karate, Judo, Ju jit su, Kickboxer, Thai Boxer, kung fu Instructor that has broken away and formed there own group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.50.48 (talk) 18:03, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Made some corrections.

1) The first section where it claims Choi Kwang Do draws heavily from TKD and quotes a source in the Atlanta Journal. Choi Kwang Do was NOT introduced until March 2nd 1987. Prior to this Grandmaster Kwang Jo Choi was teaching a modified version of Tae Kwon Do (Kwang Duk Kwan) while further developing his theories for CKD.

2) The belt system. The belt system did not go from 9 belts to 18 to reach Il Dan (1st Degree black Belt) with the addition of striped coloured belts between colours. There was already a striping system in place for colour belts from Purple belt on, as listed. This was then chaged around 1997 when the new syllabus and belts were introduced. It is also worth bearing in mind at this time that the Bo Dan (Plain black belt - provisional) was elliminated from the requirements to get to Il Dan black belt.

Changes made by Dale Miller - 4th Dan Chief Instructor of CKD and a student since January 1992. CKDWales@yahoo.co.uk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.86.252.131 (talk) 12:50, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Prior to 1999 CKD had 11 colored belts before introducing "senior" belts for each colored belt. The new curriculum increased the total number of colored belts to 18. Each senior belt retained the original pattern, while the solid colored belts were demoted to a simplified one directional pattern. CKD schools charge students for each belt exam before their exam or either incorporate the cost into the students monthly tuition fees. With the new belt system, CKD school effectively collect more fees from belt exams.

Removed this as it isnt accurate. The patterns were not retained as is. Some were modified and new ones were introduced. Having been a student of Choi Kwang Do when this occured I can verify this.

Also - why is there a need to bring up the fact that CKD schools charge for gradings or that say the only reason that more ranks were added was to generate more money only? You dont see this discussion on the TaeKwonDo section. With the new belts added the syllabus was increased and there was more to learn, so it ended up with a student with a far greater range of techniques and abilities.

I dont see why this should be added just for political posturing. If you are going to put info here then put the full information, not just selected bits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.86.252.131 (talk) 15:10, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Instructors Ranks

I have added fact tags to the above, if noe proof of this can be found, I suggest it should be removed, I believe it to be another ex students, please remember that wikipedida must be factual --Diamonddannyboy (talk) 16:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I wrote the orginal article, and it was put up for AFD, now some new editors who have no clue of how wiki is run are putting rubbish of now factual crap on here again.

Breakaway organisations

After CKD was taken over by Harry Blazer early in 2019 there were many schools who left to form "Universal Martial Art" (almost all of Georgia, most of Florida, New Zealand and part of Australia and the UK. The vision of UMA is to continue on with Grandmaster Choi's original vision without the current restructure of the curriculum and other changes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.192.47.48 (talk) 18:47, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

This section was removed from the CKD article by administrators before - The breakaway organisations were voted for removal for the reason as stated when i removed them last week. Go through and check the archive. These were decided not to be a list of organisations ("Breakaway Organisations") and deemed to be made up of many single school locations being called 'organisations'- some of those on this list or some associated with them used this association as a springboard to then produce wiki pages about themselves? - these pages were removed as self promotion /advertising also. I have removed it again on this basis - please do not reinstate it until you have checked why it did not comply and have corrected these issues that resulted in its removal by administrators previously. regards BACMAC —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bacmac (talk • contribs) 14:18, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

• I've removed them again as well. I'm concerned with the list for three reasons. First, it is entirely unsourced. There are no references included showing that any of these organisations are, in fact, breakaway groups from CKO. Second, none of these organisations seem to be sufficiently notable on their own - this isn't a knock-down argument, but I can't see much value in a list of non-notable organisations who claim to be connected to the article's subject. And third, I'm concerned that, like in other places where similar lists exist on WP, we will see (and are seeing) organisations adding themselves to the list for the off-wiki link, which feels spammy at best. Perhaps a prose version covering significant break away organisations and discussing why this is significant would be more encyclopedic, but at this stage I'd rather remove them and see if there's a good case for adding any of them back. - Bilby (talk) 05:55, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Was he or wasn't he?

"While teaching and demonstrating ITF Tae Kwon Do in South East Asia, Kwang Jo Choi became injured through his training and demonstrations to the point where he was unable to continue with the discipline.[4] So he left Malyasia (where he was demonstrating at the time) for North America, in the hope of finding orthopedic surgeons who would be able to help with his injuries.[5]"

Was he or was he not injured? It states that he had become injured to the point he was unable to train, then says he was demonstrating at the time. So, was he injured or not?

This is indeed a vague statement and there was never any detail published to clarify it. Like in every sport, including Tae Kwon Do, injuries are very common, especially in competitive environment. They do sometimes prevent a practitioner from training. So, nothing unusual or drastic in that part. Still, the confusing part was that he managed to heal himself just by using suddenly acquired medical knowledge (?!). It is so easy to demystify this - all that is needed is the exact description of the injuries.
What I really dislike is that this myth is used as a gospel against Tae Kwon Do training. And, yes, I did use to go to CKD classes for a while and that really started me questioning some of the CKD's basic principles. Everyone is brainwashed with such statements and none dares to question them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Annonimiac (talk • contribs) 23:51, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

So you used to do CKD?, A Video very well distributed to members /instructors and used in public dispalys from 1990 onwards ; the video - 'Introduction to Choi Kwang Do ' has a personal statement from a Master James Lim out of Canada saying that he thought Kwang Jo Choi had retired from martial arts due to injury "- .. A consistent and ongoing demonstration schedule meant that each time he would do a demonstration his injury would flare up, he would have to refrain from training to allow his injury to recover so as to be fit for the next demonstration, not a very nice position to be in is it - oh , and in light of this surely you are not asking for doctors reports and xray "proof" of an injury that occured over 40 years ago? Being an ex-CKD -ist you already know about this wouldnt you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bacmac (talk • contribs) 16:54, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

What I am against is that statements such as "he was wheelchair bound due to his damaging TKD training" is fed on incredibly frequent basis to CKD students (at least where I was training). So, little children get scared in order not to ever try any other martial art (that includes brainwashing their parents and even adult practitioners). None actually says that he was doing demonstration in a very harsh and rigid ITF way. That method of training was abandoned 20 years ago. Just watching his video performing an ITF TKD pattern proves that very strongly. All the other martial arts have come a long way since CKD was conceived, but it appears that none bothered to check them. It is just easier to say that it is a "superior" martial art based on "scientific methods"? That's probably another topic to discuss... No one is asking for medical documentation but just to specify exactly what kind of injuries he sustained, especially since this aspect is used so heavily as a propaganda.

Err, sorry no idea what you are talking about. I have trolled through edits here and cannot find any referance to wheelchairs or much else of what you are referring to.  ? I am no pshychiatrist (cant even spell it)(;) but if you have issues with your former instructor take it up with them, this is not the place to do it. Wikipedia is an encyclopedic project that many hard working individuals respect and dedicate a great deal of time to, please take the time to read and understand the guidlines and work within them. Goodwill and goodluck my friend. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bacmac (talk • contribs) 14:55, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Dear Bacmac, "I am no (misspelled) psychiatrist" is probably not most appropriate and polite wording to use within any wikipedia discussion. But, on that note, as one of the "hard working individuals (who) respect and dedicate a great deal of time to" you should probably use automatic spell checking feature within this text editor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Annonimiac (talk • contribs) 22:46, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

       I sincerely appologise Annonimiac, i have obviously offended you and that was not my intention.   I will take more care.  Of course speelling is not important in talk /discussions areas and it is referred to in the wiki guidlines as being something we should not focus on when trying to discuss how to improve articles -   Bacmac (talk) 01:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

PS/ all the talk of propaganda, scaring children, brainwashing parents seem highly inappropriate, emotional and opinionated - reading Bilby responce below reads well , i think we can all take something from that. Bacmac (talk) 01:25, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi Bacmac, there has been talk on wiki that you are Bruce Cairney, if so you should probably see this website 203.206.171.236 (talk) http://htmlgear.tripod.com/guest/control.guest?u=ckdaustralia —Preceding undated comment added 02:56, 4 November 2009 (UTC). http://www.ckdaustralia.info/

Corpus delicti : http://kikwando.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=35 .
"...He was also beginning to realise that many of these techniques could be harmful to the body over the longer term. In fact, by the age of 45, Grandmaster Choi had so severely injured his own body due to the lock out movements found in traditional martial arts that he was forced to move to North America to seek medical help. Confined at one stage to a wheelchair, it was during this time that he began creating the techniques that would later form the basis of Choi Kwang-Do..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Annonimiac (talk • contribs) 20:18, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

• That's interesting, but it is not a reliable source, so we wouldn't be able to use it here. And if we did we could only use it to state that a practitioner has described that Choi was, at one point, confined to a wheelchair - we can't derive anything more from it. The thing is, we do have reliable sources, such as the one used in the article, that support the claim that he was injured. So it is reasonable that we report on that, and, to be honest, I haven't seen anything which would lead me to doubt that he was injured in some way. However, we can't comment on whether or not his injury is inflated by some practitioners, (presuming that they do - it might be accurate), as that would constitute original research - unless there's a reliable source (and in this case it would have to be very reliable) that claims that practitioners overstate what happened. - Bilby (talk) 21:42, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Maybe CKD web sites are more reliable :
http://www.holburnckd.org/content/grandmasterchoi.htm
http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=1884947273
http://www.blackbeltacademy.com/pc72/CKD_Grand_Master_Choi.aspx
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Annonimiac (talk • contribs) 21:58, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

• That's cool. So did you want to add that he was confined to a wheelchair? I'm a bit cautious about primary sources, though - even though it isn't a major claim, I'd still prefer a secondary source, if possible, to back it up. - Bilby (talk) 00:45, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

I really don't think quoting "CKD web sites" as a "reliable" source of information on the subject, that shows bias and POV. Surelu the martial art founder would have medical proof to back his claims, referral letters, appointment results, and the like. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.185.216.99 (talk) 20:44, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Medical Board

I found this, will it do ?

Fantastic - 1 junior doctor, 1 osteopath, 1 paediatrist and 1 physiotherapist. And what 'scientific' support can they provide? Furthermore : "Choi Kwang Do is a very effective physical wellness program that can be used as a preventative measure for certain chronic degenerative diseases. Diseases such as Alzheimer’s Disease; Cancer; Osteoarthritis; Multiple Sclerosis; Osteoporosis; Diabetes; Cardiovascular Disease; Parkinson’s Disease; Fybromyalgia; can be prevented by training regularly in Choi Kwang Do." Any exercise is good for wellness (preventing obesity, improving cardiovascular system etc), but the above statement is just plainly irresponsible and at least extremely dangerous. Some hard core medical research data are more than welcome. Annonimiac (talk) 05:21, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

[[1]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.50.48 (talk) 08:02, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Gold Belt

The list of belts shows a "Gold Belt" and "Gold Belt Senior", while the table of belts (with the colored images) does not. Which is correct? UltraExactZZ ^Claims ~ Evidence 20:58, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

The images are incomplete. Gold belt does exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Annonimiac (talk • contribs) 23:33, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Country of Origin

This article says country of origin was South Korea. Also says he developed Choi Kwang Do after moving to North America. Sure, the guy may have been Korean, but it seems like it was created in North America from the story the article presents. I've added a 'citation needed' tag as there seems to be no evidence that this art was ever trained in South Korea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.30.230.44 (talk) 20:30, 18 November 2018 (UTC)