Talk:Puppeteer

Comments

This entry is highly misleading, as it overemphasizes American puppeteers that can be found in mass-entertainment like TV and Film. The real art of puppetry and puppeteers has a much broader and richer tradition. In the spectrum of puppetry, TV and Film is a very narrow band. Unfortunately the power of mass media diminishes and ignores the phenomenal work of artists who have worked in puppetry for generations all over the globe.

That's a very good point. Perhaps there are some suggestions for other traditions of puppetry that could be added.

I agree with the observation above, and the ensuring suggestion. I have therefore humbly attempted to fill in the most rudimentary outline of the grand European and Asian puppet theater traditions. I humbly leave it to more learned members of the puppet community to expand upon these entries, as they are beyond my personal field of expertise.--Peter puppet 07:23, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I added some popular forms of puppetry in SE Asia. I will actually be expanding on water puppetry shortly. (After I finish my final project on it :P) --Framed0000

Thanks for doing that. A lot more should be added to this including dates and more details. Morganfitzp 03:27, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I reverted and moved a couple of deletions:

• Sergey Obraztsov deserves to be in here, but not as the 3rd paragraph. I moved him to the European section since the Modern section begins with Henson/Oz.
• An external link to either Kelly Mogg's or K. Ruby's histories of radical puppetry should be in here. Yes, these are people's histories, and puppeteers are people. I've retitled the link to make more sense.

– Morganfitzp 02:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

A major problem with this article is that it is supposed to be about puppeteers, not puppetry. While the two are obviously related, the sections on puppetry and it's history that are not specific to a puppeteer are more appropriate for the puppet article. I have taken the content referring to puppetry's development as an artform and moved it to the puppet article, where it was needed. I think the African Puppetry section is an excellent idea, but also more appropriate in the puppet article.

I've renamed the section discussing Henson, Oz and Obraztsov "Famous Puppeteers" and made the lists of puppeteers a sub-section of that. Someone may want to clean up or renamed that section if need be.

There should be a wholly separate article for "puppetry." It's crazy that there is not one. Any takers?

African puppetry

This article could do with a section on African puppetry. There isn't much written about it on the Web. Morganfitzp 13:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC) I guess this is because there is very little in the way of puppetry connected with Africa. The theatrical culture was more storytelling based and also a lot of ritual and dance using mask. It's a fascinating and dynmaic cultural tradition but not one generally connected with puppetry.

Question: what is the difference between puppeteers and ventriloquists?

A ventriloquist uses a ventriloquist dummy and pretends to have a conversation between himself and a the ventriloquist dummy. The ventriloquist pretends to disguise the fact that he is producting the voice for the ventroliquist dummy which is he actually making in addition to manipulating the dummy. It is a very limited form of puppetry. Most puppeteers do not limit themselves to such a narrow area.

The above is simply not the case. Africa has an extremely rich puppetry tradition and indeed the use of puppetry in religious ritual drama, closely related to masked performance, is absolutely central to a wide range of African theatrical forms. This is well documented in 'Emotions in Motion: La Magie de L'Imaginaire' by E.A.Dagan ISBN 0-9693081-5-9, and elsewhere.

I think the main point is that the Puppeteer page should only really be an addendum to a serious Puppetry page, and the current Puppetry page (where African puppetry needs to be covered as a sub-topic) is generally very poor and needs a total rewrite. This is a daunting task I've occasionally considered undertaking but it needs a substantial effort of time and research. Bob 19:11, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Since writing the above I realise that a search in wikipedia for 'Puppetry' is redirected to 'Puppeteer'. It's the entry on 'Puppet', which I suggest should contain the generic definition and history of puppetry, that is very poor. Bob 08:15, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

As a footnote to the above - the Puppet and Puppetry pages have now been reworked. Puppet is an exploration of types of puppet; whereas Puppetry is a cultural history of forms of puppet theatre. Bob (talk) 07:27, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Removal of notable puppeteer named without discussion - March 2008

A couple of users have decided to casually remove names of well-known puppeteers without credible discussion or knowledge of who these puppeteers are. It would be wise to think before casually removing information from wikipedia and depriving others of the right to obtain information. Finneganw 15:20, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Your additions were inapropriate. [1][2]. Unreferenced redlinks are unhelpful to readers. Empty redlinks do not add any content or meaning to Wikipedia.--Hu12 (talk) 14:28, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

(talk) you will note quite clearly, if you look at the page, that considerable information has been added to notable puppeteers who were formerly only redlinks. They should not have been removed given their acknowledged and verifiable prominence as puppeteers. The situation should now be rectified. As you know, wikipedia readers are capable of reading not just a redlink but also information associated with it. Thanks for your understanding. Yours in good faith.Finneganw 19:02, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Puppeteers Vs. Ventriloquists

Some of the names on this list (Edgar Bergen, Shari Lewis, Paul Winchell) are actually ventriloquists, not puppeteers. There is a huge difference. --184.34.36.15 (talk) 04:24, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Puppeteers

Do we need list all the Puppeteers in this article? This creates a long list and make the article is very unbalanced. They are in Puppeteer category btw. Alphama (talk) 05:27, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Merge with Puppet??

This article is little more than a list of notable puppeteers. Should it not be muerged with Puppet? 97.67.165.50 (talk) 17:41, 4 September 2014 (UTC)