Talk:Tule Lake War Relocation Center

Article name

Tule Lake is a Lake. Tule Lake War Relocation Center on the otherhand is a Japanese American internment camp. --Crazyjoe 01:57, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

NPOV

It is entirely possible that there may be POV language in this article, but this should be noted here BEFORE adding the tag. For this reason, ie, lack of justification, I am boldly removing the tag. --Mashford 12:48, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Using "notorious" to describe Tule Lake might be accurate, but given that this is an encyclopedia, it isn't a very neutral term. It should be replaced with something neutral or removed. -- Gmatsuda 21:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

"Notorious" has been removed. I propose the same for the POV tag (again). Mashford (talk) 19:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

It's still there. :) Tule Lake may very well have been the most "notorious" of the ten camps. However, to say so without anything verifiable to back it up is POV. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 11:14, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I changed "notorious" to "controversial," which is the term used by the Tule Lake Committee history webpage <http://www.tulelake.org/history.html>. I thought it was the most "neutral" word one could use to describe what was essentially a political prisoner camp, given its history of being the place where dissenting internees and anti-internment protesters were sent. I'm now in the process of digging out my old papers and notes re Tule Lake in the hopes I can find better references.Fengxi (talk) 02:15, 22 January 2008 (UTC)fengxi

That works. :-) -- Gmatsuda (talk) 02:50, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

images

The Library of Congress has released a number of PD images [1] [2] [3] onto Flickr that could be uploaded onto this article. Sabine's Sunbird talk 23:39, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Tossed up the second one.~ (The Rebel At) ~ 00:27, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

possible copyvio

This article appears to copy a large block of text from http://www.tulelake.org/history.html

I dont have time to rewrite this with the care it deserves, but ... dm (talk) 03:52, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

added images

I added four images to the article. Feel free to remove some of them if it seems too image-heavy. Really, the 'map' is more for the discussion page than anything. Tedder (talk) 04:39, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

misleading images

These images are a little misleading. They photos of what was once the CCC Camp in Tulelake. They lie outside the boundary of the main Japanese American Internment Camp. They were briefly used by the camp to house strike breakers (brought in from other internment camps) and 'disloyals' (before the stockade was built). I suggest looking to Densho for images. -- with the exception of the prison, a few warehouses, and administration homes, very little is left of the camp, as the barracks were auctioned off after the camp closed. Aroundtheworlds (talk) 02:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC) aroundtheworlds

I don't know one way or the other, so this is a request, not a challenge...do you have anything to verify your claim? -- Gmatsuda (talk) 02:56, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

The above poster is correct. The photos are of the Tule Lake POW camp, a former CCC camp. A few Japanese Americans were held there for two brief periods during WWII, but it is not the relocation center. Follow the "National Park Service: Confinement and Ethnicity (Chapter 15)" external link, there are chapters for Tule Lake the relocation center and Tulelake the POW camp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.167.128.239 (talk) 05:46, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

OK...then someone can go ahead and remove/replace the photos, I guess. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 05:49, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

They were my photos, I removed them. Too bad- that was a long way to go considering I went to the wrong place! tedder (talk) 06:50, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Per this discussion, I had added coords to the camp. These are incorrect- it's to the wrong camp (is there an article for the "other" camp?). Anyhow, new coords should be added; I added the coords missing template. tedder (talk) 06:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to hear you went to the wrong one! Someday, when all the property rights issues are dealt with, Tule Lake will become some kind of organized historic site, probably a unit of the National Park Service. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 07:33, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I understand how you could end up at the CCC camp instead of the Internment Camp -- besides a plaque beside the road, there is really no sign of the old camp (very little accessible to the public, practically nothing interpreted). However! All that is about to change -- on Dec. 5th the Tule Lake Segregation Center was made a National Monument in Bush's WWII Valor in the Pacific designations. I imagine it will be a while until the site is accessible to the public, and it's only a small part of the camp -- basically the stockade/motorpool area (only areas that are already owned by the public). There isn't much left of the camp's infrastructure, except the jail - but that building alone tells a very powerful story. Until the new site is operational, Lava Beds does some interpretation. Aroundtheworlds (talk)aroundtheworlds —Preceding undated comment was added at 15:20, 11 December 2008 (UTC).

Terminology section

I added the Terminology section, and placed it early in the article with the thought that people should know and understand the terminology before getting deeper into the article. It makes no sense to me that they should read the rest of the article without first understanding the terminology. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 04:15, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

This "terminology" thing seems to be one of your major obsessions, and your repeated attempts to raise its visibility borders on advocacy on your part. That's not appropriate for wikipedia. I think it's overdone as it is in this article, and I may very well prune it down in the future. — Myasuda (talk) 12:48, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Has nothing to do with trying to raise its visibility, and I deeply resent the accusation. It's about providing readers the information they need. It has all that detail because the section was attacked by those who believe "concentration camp" should be reserved for the Nazi camps, but do whatever you wish, even though I still believe it makes no sense to allow a reader to go through an article without an understanding of the terminology used, only to find out about it afterwards. Despite all this, I have little time these days to argue this kind of stuff, so please, as I said earlier, feel free to do as you wish. I'm not very likely to bother with it anymore (notice that I didn't revert your edit, despite the fact that I disagree with it?) -- Gmatsuda (talk) 01:19, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

expanding History section

There isn't a whole lot of information on the context of the loyalty questionnaire and renunciation/repatriation, and the info on the segregation/relocation center itself is pretty basic, so I am adding some details. MartinaDee (talk) 23:38, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Requested move 10 November 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 17:52, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

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Tule Lake National Monument → Tule Lake War Relocation Center – It is unclear to me why this page is called "Tule Lake National Monument." It’s primarily about the concentration camp/war relocation center, and only a single, relatively small section is dedicated to its designation as a monument. It’s not just a euphemistic designation, it’s straight-up confusing. When I was searching for this page I had to check repeatedly that I was in the right place. It’s like if we called the main Auschwitz concentration camp article "Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum."

As for what it should be called, I think that there are advantages and disadvantages to "Tule Lake War Relocation Center," "Tule Lake concentration camp," and "Tule Lake internment camp." Google Ngram Viewer shows no results at all for "Tule Lake National Monument," but does show results for all three of these terms.

"Tule Lake War Relocation Center" fits with the formats used for most of the other camps (Gila River, Granada, Heart Mountain, Jerome, Poston, Rohwer, Topaz), but may be a bit euphemistic and doesn’t necessarily cover other names for the camp ("Tule Lake Segregation Center") and other areas on site that weren’t specifically in the relocation center (such as Camp Tulelake, an isolation facility within the overall camp structure). Perhaps using "War Relocation Center" to disambiguate between the overall camp and the isolation facility would be advantageous, though. "Tule Lake War Relocation Center" is also the most common result on Google Ngram Viewer.

"Tule Lake concentration camp" may be a bit controversial, but "concentration camp" is the terminology used by Densho, which is generally considered an authority on this subject. It is the terminology recommended by the Manzanar committee, whose recommendations were adopted by the JACL (Japanese American Citizens League) in 2013. It’s also the terminology used on the FA-rated Manzanar page and would cover other names for the camp/relocation center and areas of the site that weren’t strictly within the relocation center. It is, however, the least common result on Google Ngram Viewer.

"Tule Lake internment camp" would also cover other names for/sections of the camp and is a commonly used term, possibly more diplomatic than concentration camp but also more euphemistic. I don’t know that diplomacy is more important than precision/accuracy when covering a human rights violation, but still, it’s better than "National Monument" on both counts. In terms of the Ngram Viewer, it is between "Tule Lake War Relocation Center" and "Tule Lake concentration camp" in its usage.

I personally favor “Tule Lake concentration camp,” so that’s the name I put in on the request, but am open to any of the three pending feedback. What do folks think? Spookyaki (talk) 16:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:CONSISTENT of any use of "concentration camp" in the title as long as there is currently no other article in Category:Internment camps for Japanese Americans using that same phrase. As the OP noted, the phrase may be controversial and thus it would likely lead to a perceived WP:POV/bias if this became the only article that used it in that particular category. And selecting a title based in being something that editors "personally favor" may also be perceived as violating WP:OR, WP:POV, and similar Wikipedia policies and guidelines in such a controversial topic like this. Unless there is a mass RM proposal to also rename those articles with "concentration camp", if this is to be renamed then it is better to rename it ""Tule Lake War Relocation Center", with that other Google Ngram Viewer usage choice, to be like Gila River War Relocation Center, Heart Mountain Relocation Center, Poston War Relocation Center, and others. Zzyzx11 (talk) 18:37, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

  To be clear then, you would support a move to "Tule Lake War Relocation Center"? That seems more in line with WP:CONSISTENT than the current title. Spookyaki (talk) 18:51, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

• Move to Tule Lake War Relocation Center, since that actually seems to be the WP:COMMONNAME of this site, rather than "Tule Lake concentration camp". As mentioned above, the "concentration camp" name is not only inconsistent with other articles about Japanese relocation centers in California, but also potentially biased and not as widely used as the "relocation center" name. – Epicgenius (talk) 15:56, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
• Move to Tule Lake War Relocation Center, per WP:CONSISTENT with other pages. Theparties (talk) 07:15, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Since the general consensus seems to favor Tule Lake War Relocation Center, am changing the proposal to that. Spookyaki (talk) 22:01, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.