82.26.220.45

Hi, regarding your edits to List of professional sportspeople convicted of crimes - I've had to fight numerous times for years to keep this article from being deleted in deletion discussions. One of the reasons the advocates for deletion claim is the difficulty in controlling the scope of the article. This is why lesser crimes, which do not result in incarceration, are not included. If we were to included high level amateurs, it would open the article to hundreds of additional entries, which would make it uncontrollable. The two primary factors in controlling the scope are 1) A crime serious enough to result in incarceration and 2) an athlete who has reached the top level of their profession (excluding lower level football clubs, players who are in minor leagues with the primary focus to be promoted, etc). In fact the basis for the article is the interaction between being a professional athlete and a greater likelihood of legal trouble, which would also not apply to an amateur. Thanks for listening CitiCat ^♫ 17:02, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

I don't know if you are aware that the IMSA WeatherTech is a top-level sportscar racing series in the US and sportcar racing and powerboating has traditionally attracted wealthy amateurs, this was why I included Tucker. Also, most of the drivers listed are not professionals either; namely Randy Lanier, Whittington brothers, John Paul Sr, Zwolsman and Zogaib, much of the team owners had large scale drug trafficking operations as a sideline if that disqualifies them as a professional. TBH, in motorsport, the lines between professional and amateur has blurred away. 82.26.220.45 (talk) 21:33, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Also CART is certainly not amateur racing, it included the Indy 500, arguably the biggest race in the world. CitiCat ^♫ 01:32, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

@Citicat: I'll offer a rebuttal of this; Lanier committed his crimes before his transition to CART, he said he was going to retire from his criminal career to focus on his racing full-time, according to one given source, before it caught up with him. As for the Whittington Brothers, look at their CART records (Bill, Don). Most are these only took part in one race out of a complete season. As for Zwolsman, Sr. and Paul, Sr., it doesn't make it too obvious that both are amateurs.

I think you're too young to know this but top level motorsport, attracted their fair share of amateurs in those days. This inclusion criteria is becoming ridiculous I can't believe it. 82.26.220.45 (talk) 20:57, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Er, I've been watching motorsports since the 70s, but never mind that. I think I see the problem here - this originated when I deleted Scott Tucker. I realize now that was incorrect. I don't know why I missed that he drove in Le Mans, which by my own definition, would make him eligible for the article, as it is certainly the highest level of driving. The Whittington brothers absolutely deserve to be in, being in the starting lineup at Indy (and being in Le Mans) means that, while they may have used dirty money to get there, they still were in the race, and this isn't a subjective definition. I think you may be right about Zwolsman and Paul, I must admit they are more human interest stories than sportsmen, but then again, they were at Le Mans as well. I'm not as familiar with the procedures to enter Le Mans as I am with Indy or F1, so if you wish to correct me on that I'll accept your opinion. Whether Lanier was professional before or after he was a criminal isn't relevant to the article scope. CitiCat ^♫ 05:09, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

November 2019

Hello, I'm Waddie96. I noticed that in this edit to List of November 2019 Hong Kong protests, you removed content without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry, the removed content has been restored. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. comrade waddie96 ★ (talk) 13:39, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

If this is a shared IP address, and you did not make the edits referred to above, consider creating an account for yourself or logging in with an existing account so that you can avoid further irrelevant notices.

@Waddie96: Hi I removed it with an edit summary why. Literally, that incident was no different to what would happen in other countries such as that Ferrari driver who got manhandled by a NYPD officer. 82.26.220.45 (talk) 14:39, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Regardless, the WP:RS supports the addition and I see now reason removing it – comrade waddie96 ★ (talk) 14:47, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

IFMAR Worlds

I do not know why you undid my edit. The layout clearly now shows more about the world championship winning equipment and standardises it layout and seperates out the event information from the equipment information. I do have top 10 equipment I will be adding to the individual pages though over the coming weeks. These type of amendments are very time consuming to compile and if you feel strongly about them should maybe be raised on the talk page.

Incidentally having a second editor the following would help: Draft:1985_IFMAR_1:10_Electric_Off-Road_World_Championships
Draft:1989_IFMAR_1:10_Electric_Off-Road_World_Championships
Draft:1991_IFMAR_1:10_Electric_Off-Road_World_Championships
Draft:1995_IFMAR_1:10_Electric_Off-Road_World_Championships
Draft:Team_Xray

Yachty4000 ★ (talk) 16:26, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@Yachty4000: I already said why on the edit summary. I am not removing them out of spite but heres my argument to defend my decision. If you want to know why I removed them, here's a question for you; have you read R/C magazines that have race reports in recent years? If not, ever been to websites such as Neobuggy, LiveRC and RedRC? If so, ever read the race reports of these? If so, what do they focus on? Answer - the A-mains or in nitro racing, also the semi-finals.

Nowadays, magazines don't have enough space for anything else but A-main standings. If you want to keep the other listings, you may as well create a sub-article and why did you merge the 2015 2WD results list when could've been split off into. Now it's unnecessary clutter.

As with equipment, what are people and the media is going to remember the most, the cars, the drivers, the wheels or the tire inserts?

Do you see a equipment listing for wheels, gearboxes, fuels, driver's Nomex suits on Wikipedia articles of F1 Grand Prixs?

I can understand that it can be time consuming but whenever I edit, I have to think of the audiences to myself. This is why I wouldn't bother. I used to edit myself but quit because I became sick and tired of lazy and workshy YouTube idiots ripping stuff off Wikipedia and pass it off as their own work, particularly stuffs about cars. This is why I rather focus on the A-mains and drivers such as Tessmann, Coehlo and Ronnefalk.

Also, my biggest concern is that that equipment listing is going to do nothing but clutter the article - not everybody is going to remember when bodyshell the car ran on.

If I don't remove it, then somebody will. If they do, they will have the same reason as mine.

As with Xray, it's Xray Racing Model Cars, even the company calls themselves that[1]. Everybody calls them Xray.

You should ask WP:DRV that you want to move the deleted article, XRAY Model Racing Cars, and have it moved into your namespace. There are fragments of sourcable bits there.

As with the rest, I'll sort it out whenever I can. You need to consider WP:NSPORT. 82.26.220.45 (talk) 18:52, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

I haven't red an rc magazine in 5 years it all online with setup sheets, youtube videos etc as you say. Had to buy some old one to complete that table though. magazine do however have the space but everyone now knows before it is printed. personally i would delete all the table lower down half of them are irrelevant as the part is a brand not a manufacturer batteries are the worst at this. i choose to add to not remove others content. ill place you a bet when you start a well structured table provided it is on the main page it gets maintained. some people car about thd shells o got the idea from the old magazine tables.

If you want to create the 4wd page of 2015 you can and put all the results into the 2wd section and sort out the entries page. then i would have no issues with the constructive edit. i am not doing it because the new page for 4wd will just be rejected so went with consistancy. not sure how 2015 got away with so many pages. personally i like it all in one place wikipedia isn't about journalism but recording facts. while the person that came 34th isn't that relevant this person in five years could be world champion and no one is preserving this.

both xray and losi are struggling to get pages despite the other key brands gaving one. time to get on with touring cars then others.

yachty4000 20:55 23 may 2020

Yachty4000 (talk) 19:57, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

...when you start a well structured table provided it is on the main page it gets maintained

@Yachty4000: Not always, out of 100 articles, only 20-40 of those get maintained regularly. I seen lists that get left unmaintained for years. That one you left looks like an incomplete mess, like I said, it's ugly because it bloats the article horribly, I never bothered because it's too much work and I wanted to quit. I'll bet you that 8 out of 10 times, not everybody will bother with it. They left the Sanwa IFMAR winners list rotting away until I had to come and update it.

both xray and losi are struggling to get pages despite the other key brands gaving one. time to get on with touring cars then others.

You could've bypassed this process by redirecting it directly rather than going some idiotic process. Plus your edit of Team Losi's article has 3, when I saw the old Xray's article, there was plenty that could've been sourced except there wasn't any to save it. There was a PDF scans for old RCCA knocking about somewhere on the internet which could help.

while the person that came 34th isn't that relevant this person in five years could be world champion and no one is preserving this.

This should be IFMAR's responsibility, not Wikipedia. There's an web archive for this. 82.26.220.45 (talk) 23:29, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@Yachty4000: If you have any issues with it, you should raise this issue up with WP:MOTORSPORT.

BTW; 2001 1:10 Off-Road Worlds should've been 2002 1:10 Off-Road Worlds, the same reason as 2002 Ryder Cup. 82.26.220.45 (talk) 11:08, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

In regards to the tables seperating the events and car our makes sense. It's anything that requires ongoing stastically analysis that is not updated on wikipedia e.g. a table of the number of competitors in an event will be a table of the number of america in the A-Main final will not. The cars specification of the winners will be as it has commercial value and the older cars have collectable value. So which fields being removed will keep you happy I suggest gear ration and bodyshell the electronics section is a big improvement. There are stastically analysis below that simply cannot be verified so why don't you delete these.

I can literally link to hundreds of World Championship table I have created in sailing which are being maintained.

Losi I can see so many people have tried I gave up and wrote on the link page. Xray any guidance would be appreciated there will be a few other brands now I am moving into other areas.

Yachty4000 (talk) 21:40, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for some of your referencing help recently. Can you please stop deleting lots of content wikipedia is ment to be collabrative in its approach. I see nothing wrong with putting the results of a event on the wikipedia page this is common with most sports. Also your tables etc. use very complicated and letter intensive coding. The 1:10th table equipment I want to revert which field do you not want your end solution is to simplistic? The table should cover the key components which includes the ESC.

Yachty4000 (talk) 03:00, 07 June 2020 (UTC)

Forgot to say the guidance on and additions you have maded in referencing is much appreciated. Some of those document I hadn't seen. I am presently working on 1:8th offroad nitro and 1:10 electric touring car as the next bits to populate. But I have a reasonable archive so slowly I will get round to them all.

Yachty4000 (talk) 10:11, 07 June 2020 (UTC)

In regards to the tables seperating the events and car our makes sense. It's anything that requires ongoing stastically analysis that is not updated on wikipedia e.g. a table of the number of competitors in an event will be a table of the number of america in the A-Main final will not. The cars specification of the winners will be as it has commercial value and the older cars have collectable value. So which fields being removed will keep you happy I suggest gear ration and bodyshell the electronics section is a big improvement.

Refer to WP:NOT. No we don't, this is not what Wikipedia is for. Wikipedia is not here to help a bunch of money grabbing opportunists.

There are stastically analysis below that simply cannot be verified so why don't you delete these.

Wrong, they can be or are verified. With you creating articles, you have verified it. Le Mans has this (List of 24 hours of Le Mans records), MotoGP has too (List of MotoGP rider records) and has F1 (List of Formula One driver records). Because the IFMAR Worlds is the highest level of such kind, why can't it?

 I see nothing wrong with putting the results of a event on the wikipedia page this is common with most sports.

@Yachty4000: Wrong, the differences is these people have or are likely to their own Wikipedia article. Only can see 20 of 200 of these 1:8 off-road guys getting their own articles

You don't see the full result of the practice sessions being listed in 2017 Indianapolis 500

As with full scale racing, most here in 2019 Blancpain GT World Challenge America don't. Aren't we supposed to be focusing on being like other motorsport articles, not tiddly winks.

The flag icon template you used is used in Olympic sports, I don't see it being used in others plus it creates unnecessary bulk. Barring Olympic sports, do you see it used in the sports listed in Template:World championships in 2019? Any in motorsports?

As with equipment listing, do you see groupsets, wheels, suspensions and other components being listed in 2019 UCI Mountain Bike World Cup or in 2019 UCI Road World Championships – Men's road race. They don't even list what bicycle the cyclists ride too, therefore I'm standing my by reason to remove the unnecessary tables, you should've look at other Wikipedia articles before you considered adding it in.

However, here's one with equipment listing at List of 2019 UCI WorldTeams and riders, do you see it cluttering up 2019 UCI World Tour, do you see Shimano Dura-Ace nor Campagnolo Super Record being mentioned under groupsets?

As with tyres, you should take a look how it's done in 1996 24 Hours of Le Mans. I don't have any objections with it being done that way but not with your clutter.

I'm not going to argue any further and still will stand by my edits. Like I've said before which you chose to ignore, you should go to WT:MOTORSPORT and raise this up with them regarding your version. Any further argument with editing disagreements, raise it up with WP:MOTORSPORT (a request you have ignored once already), not me. I do what is needed for and Wikipedia's standards, not to the most hardcore of enthusiasts (which is not what Wikipedia is for). 82.26.220.45 (talk) 14:05, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

These type of amendments are very time consuming to compile and The cars specification of the winners will be as it has commercial value and the older cars have collectable value.

Refer to WP:HARDWORK; also for your argument, WP:EVERYTHING.

June 2020

Hello, I'm ProcrasinatingReader. I noticed that in this edit to 2017 IFMAR 1:10 Electric Off-Road World Championships, you removed content without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry, the removed content has been restored. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. ProcrasinatingReader (talk) 20:29, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Re on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorsport

Hi, just letting you know (since I don't know how to, or if I can, ping an IP user) I've replied to the RC Car Results Table thread on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorsport. Please don't reply here (or at least ping me if you do) as I'm not watching your talk page. Thanks A7V2 (talk) 02:33, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

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