Talk:Alois Brunner

Misc

There is a banner on this article now, saying: "The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see discussion on the talk page." ---and then there is nothing on the talk-page. Could the editor(s) who have inserted the POV-banner please give a reason, here on the talk-page? Thanks.

Also: the best summing up of Alois Brunners life, at least his post-1945 life, that I have seen has been in Robert Fisk´s:

• Pity the Nation: Lebanon at War (3rd ed. 2001). London: Oxford University Press; 727 pages. ISBN 0192801309

...strangely, that book (or the original articles) aren´t mentioned here. According to Fisk it was in Egypt that Brunner was employed as a "consultant" in torture etc. The Syrian Bath-regime "inherited" him from a previous regime (according to Fisk, who tried to interview him). I´ll insert the info. when I find the correct ref. (if nobody else has done so in the the mean time). Regards Huldra 12:05, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Also: there is pityful little about all the nastiness he commited (or, more formally: is accused of comitting) during WWII. I believe some came to light during the Eichman-trial, at least I remember him mentioned in Hannah Arendts book about the trial ("The banality of Evil"). That should also be added to this article. Regards, Huldra 15:10, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

333 000USD

Any other Wiki informs about 333 000 USD reward. Xx236 10:58, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

ratlines / CIA

These kind of statements need better sources than just a website [1]. The only other source I could readily find is a (1998) book by Peter Wyden, but this book does not provide footnotes (neither does the website link). There probably should be more info on Brunner in due time, because of the recent declassification of many documents of this period. Intangible2.0 16:04, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

• "Guardian" :
  • {{cite news | title = French court strikes blow against fugitive Nazi | url = http://www.guardian.co.uk/nazis/article/0,2763,445717,00.html | publisher = The Guardian | date = [[2003-03-03]] | accessdate = 2007-07-30}}
  • [http://www.guardian.co.uk/nazis/article/0,2763,445717,00.html French court strikes blow against fugitive Nazi], ''[[The Guardian]]'', March 3, 2001

DumZiBoT (talk) 03:44, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

€333,000 reward

How would if be possible to have a reward issued in Euros in 1995? Boothferry (talk) 21:23, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Good question, but with "Nazis" everything is possible. Haven't you noticed? --105.2.58.83 (talk) 01:13, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Connection to the Gehlen Organization

Shouldn't his connection to the Gehlen Organization be mentioned in this article at some point? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.28.170.95 (talk) 20:07, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Reliable witnesses?

The quote: "According to The Guardian, he was last seen alive by reliable witnesses in 1992, and by journalists in 1996."

So... journalists are not reliable witnesses?

On reflection, that seems apt. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ketchumk (talk • contribs) 20:45, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Categorisation

This article was tagged with Category:Syrian Nazis, however there is no mention in the article of any Syrian citizenship. I have removed the category until a reliable source is provided. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 22:19, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

BND

Bettina Stangneth's recent serious history book "Eichmann before Jerusalem" repeatedly refers to Brunner as working for the West German BND. However I don't see a reference given and since the mentions are in passing I don't think it is enough. But it indicates there is more information out there. Zero^talk 23:23, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Link to SWC report

The link to the Simon Wiesenthal Nazi War Criminal Report only produces a 3-page addendum, not the full report. Unable to locate correct link. RaqiwasSushi (talk) 13:00, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Lede cleanup

Cleaned up the lede in a series of edits:

• removed several duplicate references from the lede about material unlikely to be challenged and already covered and properly sourced in the article body, (no unique references have been deleted from the article)
• moved some text out of the lede that was not covered in the body at all, to the proper body section(s),
• altered a controversial figure in the lede about the number of deportees down from 140,000 to "over 100,000" to conform to sourced figures in section 'Until 1945' and un-tagged that statement,
• reorganized scattered sentences and added glue to make a coherent lede paragraph about his post-WWII narrow escape from the Allies, his flight to Syria, and surviving various capture attempts; and
• moved excessive detail about periodic media speculation on Brunner's whereabouts down to the body, replacing it with a summary statement instead, and ditto regarding reports in 2014 about his 2010 death.

The lead is cleaner and tighter; no longer contains original material not covered in the article, and is more streamlined. Mathglot (talk) 01:12, 12 January 2016 (UTC) edited by Mathglot (talk) 01:37, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Brunner's famous quote "I would do it again" comes from a journalist who was fired from his paper for falsifying stories. The journalist's story comes from a supposed telephone call. Brunner denied the quote. Brunner worked on the Madagascar deportation project before it fell through. He also worked on the Zionist supported relocation to Israel. Most "history" on Brunner comes from unreliable sources - more legend than fact. 2601:181:8301:4510:D23:64F9:78AF:34F0 (talk) 11:54, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Crying

Is this worth mentioning? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38586945 110.74.199.28 (talk) 15:12, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Nah, I don't think so, just from anon sources...and that BBC article is basically a shorter version of the Yahoo article, already in (reference 2), Huldra (talk) 22:26, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Date of death

Regarding Brunner's date of death, the information from the German intelligence agency that he died in 2010 is most likely the same as that which was reported to the Simon Wiesenthal Center by the former German secret service agent, whose evidence found that Brunner was only buried in 2010, not necessarily that he died then. It was only later, after the French investigation, that more evidence was gathered to point to his death in 2001. Dark4tune (talk) 00:13, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Disagree, i don't think we can just assume that without any source stating it. Even if it's based on the same information, the article states: "While it was initially said that he died in 2001 at the age of 89, the Office for the Protection of the Constitution now dates the year of death to 2010". So they know of the French investigation dating the death to 2001, but still give 2010 as year of death. And i think an intelligence report is more credible than a newspaper article. Also they explicitly give 2010 as year of death, not as year of burial like the Wiesenthal Center.

The Verfassungsschutz claim of 2010 is also by far the most recent one.

However, as there is no official dated document, like a death certificate, i think both dates could be mentioned in the article. Bellerophon451 (talk) 17:00, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

I will say I agree with you, but should we then list his date of death as "2001 or 2010", or should it remain as 2010? Dark4tune (talk) 23:04, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Also, I can't help but dwell on small details about the claim of his death in 2001. Like the fact that the 2001 claim gives an exact month he died (December), or the fact that Serge Klarsfeld called the French report "highly credible", or wondering what his grave in Damascus would say about his death date, or that there was apparently a report at the time of his death saying he had converted to Islam, etc. These kinds of questions leave me pondering about his true date of death. Dark4tune (talk) 23:39, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

I think giving it as "2001 or 2010" would be ok, since, as already mentioned, there is no official confirmation for either date. Bellerophon451 (talk) 17:17, 30 August 2024 (UTC)