Talk:Bao Zheng

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I feel that this article should make a clearer distinction between fact and fiction. Historically speaking we do not know if Bao Zheng was friends with the eight prince. The eighth prince in the Justic Bao stories is different from the actual historical eight prince. And Grand Tutor Pang (龐太師) is only a fictional character.

May I ask what sources the writer of this sentence used? [Historical records also show the real Bao did not attain a position in the capital. If he was indeed as just as he is glorified, this could serve to explain why he did not apparently climb very high through the ranks as to obtain a position in the capital.] According to at least two history books on the Song dynasty I have in my shelves there are records that he was quite highly ranked. Even governor of the capital 開封府尹 and six months prior to his death he was promoted to vice military chancellor 樞密副使.

References:

• 兩宋人物， 龔弘， 齊魯書社， 2004

Liang Song Renwu (Dignitaries of the two Song dynasties), Gong Hong, Qilu Publishings, 2004

• 北宋史。 南宋史， 周寶珠， 王曾瑜， 楊倩描， 中華書局， 2003

Northern Song history and Southern Song history, Zhou Baozhu, Wang Cengyu and Yang Qianmiao, Zhonghua Publishings, 2003

why is this article under Bao Qingtian? It should be under Bao Zheng

I think a harmonious compromise between the legendary and historical figure is possible. As one commentator has noted below, Bao remains an extremely popular "folk hero" among the Chinese people today. And that deserves some recognition because it is part of a long record of reverence and praise. But it is true that after a thousand years, there's very little we can actually confirm. The imperial records contain dates of his appointments / promotions. So, we do know that was governor of the capital. There are also a few surviving petitions to the throne. Unfortunately, that's about all we know. It is certainly possible that he was nowhere as heroic as he has been portrayed over the centuries. But in a situation like this, it is the critics who have the burden the proof. He is, if nothing else, a very significant "cultural artifact" in China. 24.69.170.138 (talk) 04:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Guys!

Please sign your post. I really confuse who answer who on the post above. Kunderemp (talk) 04:36, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Rename

It does not appear to me that he was any more known in English as Bao Qingtian than Bao Zheng. Given that this is an encyclopedia that should be historically accurate to the extent possible, I propose that the article be moved to Bao Zheng. --Nlu (talk) 03:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree, if this article is supposed to contain the details of the historical Bao, it should be under the heading of his actual name, Bao Qingtian should not be the primary heading. I'm going to rewrite this article, as I have just finished a paper on Bao's muzhi ming and anthology.Aas217 (talk) 04:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Moved. --Nlu (talk) 16:56, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Popular Culture

Bao Zheng IS a symbol of justice in China, it's in the popular culture (not in American culture, hence there are very sources in English), I don't know how else you can show that. Cecikierk 03:48, 26 March 2008 (UTC)cecikierk

Yes, I'm surprised about the tag too. Honestly I'm not Chinese, but Bao Zheng is huge in China and over much of Asia. I'll try to add more references. Stix1776 (talk) 07:37, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Bao Zheng was Muslim?

In opera, Bao Zheng‘s forehead had a moon mark, because moon was one of Muslim symbols, and many Muslim lived in there, It was possible Bao Zheng was a Muslim when he alive. Although he was regarded as a saint and venerated by Chinese in Taoism temples.

No, he wasn't. Just because there was crescent on his forehead, it didn't mean he was Muslim. Btw, crescent symbol was promoted by Ottoman Dynasty and Bao Zheng lived two centuries before the dynasty appeared. Kunderemp (talk) 04:31, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

It was a figure that he had from birth. See birthmark. He was originally said to have very dark skin and a "moon-shaped figure" on his forehead; Television series depicting him with an actual moon on his head are a completely different issue. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 13:29, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

qi xia he wu yi / 七侠和五义

The paragraph said:

"In these works he was often helped by 12 deputies and detectives, collectively known as 七俠五義 (seven "knights"(Xia) and five "honorable men"(Yi))"

I wonder, who were those people. I know the phrase was on the opening song of the TV series. If I guess correctly, the song also mentioned five mouse warrior ( 天鼠/ Tian Shu / heavenly mouse, 山鼠/San Shu / mountain mouse, 江鼠/ Jiang Shu/ River Mouse, etc). Were the mouse the five Yi while Bao Zheng, Zhan Zhao, Gongsun Ce and other four guard of Yamen were the Seven Xia?

Mandarin (Hanyu) is not my language at all. I only know some words. I watched the series in my own language (Indonesia). I only guess from the name, and some word I knew, and Yahoo's Babelfish Kunderemp (talk) 04:54, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Check out this article The Seven Heroes and Five Gallants Timmyshin (talk) 20:44, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Side characters

Hi everyone, is there any evidences or proof to show the famous villians in Bao Zheng's story like Grand tutor Pang and Eunuch Guo Huai are real? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.126.93.30 (talk) 06:09, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

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狸貓

狸貓 is the civet. It is often called "civet cat" in English, but it is not a member of the cat family. "Wild cat" used as translation in the article is incorrect. The civet is farmed for its scent, used in perfumery. 109.147.100.127 (talk) 02:21, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Judge Dee

I find it very strange that no reference is made to the - at least in "the West", ground-breaking novels written by the Dutch sinologist-diplomat Dr Robert van Gulik, who took "Rechter Tie" - in Dutch - or Judge Dee as the protagonist of an internationally highly successful series that long preceded the books written by Lenormand. Peter Rietbergen, Nijmegen, the Netehrlands 131.174.131.104 (talk) 15:04, 15 March 2024 (UTC)