Talk:Ben Heine

Untitled

Why is Ben Heine being disappeared? This is profoundly perverted, Stalinistic behavior on a supposedly open society site. He is obviously an important public figure, whether or not we like his art or politics, both of which concern exceptionally important and well-known events. Haberstr 16:12, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

The consensus in a discussion about this subject was that he was not notable enugh for an article here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ben Heine. Fram 12:55, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Checklinks

There are a lot of blogger results and dead links, they could use a tidy up http://toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/webchecklinks.py?page=Ben_Heine - Off2riorob (talk) 22:18, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

externals for consideration and investigation

DAILY MAIL (UK - February 2011)

EL PAIS (Spain - February 2011)

THE TELEGRAPH (UK - February 2011)

NEWSLITE (UK : February 2011)

BBC Brazil (Brazil - February 2011)

LA REPUBBLICA (Italy - February 2011)

TV BRUSSEL (Belgium - January 2011)

CNN Turk (Turkey - February 2011)

POP PHOTOGRAPHY: (USA - January 2011)

SHORT NEWS (Germany - February 2011)

ESTADAO (Brazil - January 2011)

HET NIEUWSBLAD (Belgium - February 2011)

DE STANDAARD (Belgium - February 2011)

OBVIOUS MAG (Spain - January 2011)

WEBOVINY (Slovakia - January 2011)

ARTE SPAIN (Spain - January 2011)

Accessible Art Fair (Belgium - 2010)

TrendsNow (France- February 2011)

CHINA DAILY (China - 2010)

DUSHI (China - january 2011)

ABDUZEEDO (Brazil - 2010)

Other publications in 2010

List of publications

List of interviews

List of exhibitions

Article about Ben Heine needs many updates and corrections (please read)

Hello, I've been following Ben Heine's work for many years, may I mention that the current article is a text that appeared on Wikipedia in 2006 and that reflects what he did in that time only. He has totally changed and evolved. He has made many more things since then. He is a globally appreciated artist. There aren't so many criticisms about him. The article isn't fair, it REALLY NEEDS MANY UPDATES and contains strong mistakes about the artist. Many well known national newspapers and magazines have talked about him and his work recently (see non exhaustive list here below), none of them is even mentioned in the current article. He has stopped making political art since more than 2 years. Please just consider these publications, most of them are a few days/weeks old only... Daily Mail, The Telegraph, El Pais, Repubblica, De Standaard... These AREN'T blogs!!! These are national papers read by millions of people.

Please have a look to the following list of errors in the current article (which I detailed here below, and which I'll mention to several other admins if needed and if not taken into account). Caring-writer (talk)

List of important errors in the old article about Ben Heine (text from 2006!!):

1) Ben isn't a political artist anymore, it's true he used to make political art accusing Israel of "crimes against humanity", but he stopped making such illustrations in 2009 and wrote an "[[open letter to the Jewish Community]]" in December 2010 apologizing about his past behavior (saying it was the influences of his studies in Journalism. Parts of his final assignment talked about the "limits of freedom of expression in cartoons"). In this letter, he also firmly condemned the infamous Iranian Holocaust cartoon contest and said he was feeling deeply guilty about it. Here is the letter translated in English (Google translator). Ben doesn't deny the Holocaust, he visited Auschwitz Birkenau and feels sincerely sorry about the past suffering of the Jewish community.

2) Ben doesn't contribute to these websites anymore: DonQuichotte, MWC News, Rebelion, Tlaxcala, Irancartoon, Syriacartoon, Arabcartoon, Persiancartoon, Karikaturevi, Azercartoon, Dessin d'humour, National Caricaturist Network (Ben has explicitly asked these sites to remove all his illustrations from their platforms)

3) Ben doesn't collaborate with "La Libre Belgique" Anymore. Only 4 or 5 of his old cartoons have been published in this newspaper (in 2006 and 2007).

4) Pencil Vs Camera is not just a "little detail" in his biography, it is a creative and original series that has generated some huge reactions on the web and in the written press (see a non exhaustive list below). It is such an innovation that several TV channels around the world have also talked about it: Globo - Brazil, TV Brussel - Belgium, and many others). Same for "Digital Circlism"...

5) "Pere Ubu" (one of the main newspapers that clearly accused Heine in Belgium has removed the accusation from their site

6) Most of the links in the "notes" section (expecially the url's linking to images on Ben's blog) do not work...

7) Ben removed from his sites (blog, flickr, Deviantart and official site) all his cartoons accusing Israel or any Israeli person (Avigdor Lieberman...).

8) He didn't participate "recently" to the Kruger Workshop. This event happened in 2006!

So, I really hope you'll aknowledge that 90% of the article is based on inaccurate facts... I would like to see a real neutral article about that artist.

List of recent notable publications with Ben Heine works and biography:

WEB:

- DAILY MAIL (UK - February 2011) - EL PAIS (Spain - February 2011) - THE TELEGRAPH (UK - February 2011) - NEWSLITE (UK : February 2011) - BBC Brazil (Brazil - February 2011) - LA REPUBBLICA (Italy - February 2011) - TV BRUSSEL (Belgium - January 2011) - CNN Turk (Turkey - February 2011) - POP PHOTOGRAPHY: (USA - January 2011) - SHORT NEWS (Germany - February 2011) - ESTADAO (Brazil - January 2011) - HET NIEUWSBLAD (Belgium - February 2011) - DE STANDAARD (Belgium - February 2011) - OBVIOUS MAG (Spain - January 2011) - WEBOVINY (Slovakia - January 2011) - ARTE SPAIN (Spain - January 2011) - Accessible Art Fair (Belgium - 2010) - TrendsNow (France- February 2011) - CHINA DAILY (China - 2010) - DUSHI (China - january 2011) - ABDUZEEDO (Brazil - 2010) - Other publications in 2010

PRINT:

- Pop Photography (USA - January 2011) - Het Nieuwsblad - 1 (Belgium - 2011) - Het Nieuwsblad - 2 (Belgium - 2010) - Ca m'intéresse (France - 2010) - Daily Mirror (Great Britain - 2010) - Bookedi (South Korea - 2010) - Digital Artist 1 - 2 - 3 (China - 2010) - Belgian Embassy in London (February 2011) - Photoeidolo (Greece - 2011) - Šeimininkė (Lithuania - 2010) - View Mag (Germany - 2010) - Shambala Sun (Canada - 2010) - Imagine Demain le Monde (Belgium - 2009) - La Libre Belgique 1 2 (Belgium - 2009) - Moonwalk Through Art (The Netherlands - 2009) - Rolling Stone (USA - 2008) - 3e Millénaire (France - 2011)

My suggestions for a new neutral article (it would be good to add some of the above references, feel free to add more)

Ben Heine (born 12 June 1983 in Abidjan, Ivory coast) is a Belgian multidisciplinary artist. He is internationally known for his original series "Pencil Vs Camera" and "Digital Circlism". Ben has stopped doing political art since 2009.

He has a degree in journalism (Brussels). He also briefly studied graphic arts and sculpture (one year in Hastings, England) but considers himself a self-taught artist.

Caring-writer, concerning your points:-

1, 2, 3, 7. Events in the past are also often notable for Wikipedia, not just recent events. Adding information about recent events might be good, but not deleting information about old events. Wikipedia is not a newspaper about current events only. Consider WP:PRESERVE. If however the old events are badly sourced or not notable, please explain why.

4. Not sure what the problem is as this is now mentioned in the opening sentences?

5. If the historical accusation was notable, it can be potentially still be mentioned, but if it was retracted, again you can ADD information about the retraction, not delete information about the accusation?

6. Is someone refusing to allow the up-dating or removal of broken links? Should be uncontroversial.

8. I think changing the word "recent" to a more exact remark mentioning 2006 should be uncontroversial.

Hope this helps.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 09:33, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Art

Pencil Vs Camera

This is a concept Heine invented in 2010. Heine says it is the result of a long graphic exploration and a logic consequence of his artistic evolution. "Pencil Vs Camera" mixes drawing and photography, imagination and reality through illusion and surrealism. He usually focuses on architecture, portraits, and animals. Among many others, the main themes approached in "Pencil Vs Camera" are love and friendship.

Digital Circlism

This is a concept Heine invented in 2010. It is a mix between Pop Art and Pointillism. In this series, Heine usually makes portraits of celebrities with digital tools using flat circles on a black background. Each circle has a single color and a single tone.

Influences

Heine says he has been deeply influenced by German Expressionism, Belgian Surrealism, American Pop Art and Social Realism.

Publications

Heine is represented by several established press agencies everywhere in the world. List of publications

interviews

List of interviews

Exhibitions

Heine is represented by several established art galeries in Belgium and abroad (UK and USA) and is sponsored by "Samsung Imaging". So far, He has exhibited his creations in Belgium, Great Britain, Turkey, Romania, France, Canada, USA, Germany, Brazil, South Korea and Spain.

List of exhibitions

Views on Israel

Ben used to make political art accusing Israel of crimes against humanity, he stopped making such illustrations in 2009 and wrote an "[[open letter to the Jewish Community]]" in 2011 apologizing about his past behavior.

Notes

Caring-writer (talk) 22:41, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Message to Andrew Lancaster

You say:

   1, 2, 3, 7. Events in the past are also often notable for Wikipedia, not just recent events. Adding information about recent events might be good, but not deleting information about old events. Wikipedia is not a newspaper about current events only. Consider WP:PRESERVE. If however the old events are badly sourced or not notable, please explain why.
   4. Not sure what the problem is as this is now mentioned in the opening sentences?
   5. If the historical accusation was notable, it can be potentially still be mentioned, but if it was retracted, again you can ADD information about the retraction, not delete information about the accusation?
   6. Is someone refusing to allow the up-dating or removal of broken links? Should be uncontroversial.
   8. I think changing the word "recent" to a more exact remark mentioning 2006 should be uncontroversial.
   Hope this helps.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 09:33, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I say:

All these points are still mentioned and explained in the new article. The new article is neutral and has many more notable references than the old version.

Cute-snoopy (talk) 08:19, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Please, stop deleting Heine's updated page!!

"Fram" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fram) and a few other admins keep reposting the old version of Heine's biography (from 2006!) and keep deleting the new text without paying attention to the artist's evolution. Several persons have been working on the new version with more accurate information and several notable references. It has been submitted in the TalkPage but Qwyrxian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Qwyrxian) deleted the section.

Please see the new article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cute-snoopy#Suggestion_of_an_updated_article_about_Ben_Heine

No important, true and accurate elements in the old version have been deleted. Only THE STRUCTURE has changed! IT'S NOT FORBIDDEN by Wikipedia's policy to change the structure of an article and it is highly recommended to add notable references and information corresponding to an artist's evolution, which is the case here.

Cute-snoopy (talk) 09:00, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

List of important errors in the old article about Ben Heine:

1) Ben isn't a political artist anymore, it's true he used to make political art accusing Israel of "crimes against humanity", but he stopped making such illustrations in 2009 and wrote an "open letter to the Jewish Community" in December 2010 apologizing about his past behavior (saying it was the influences of his studies in Journalism. Parts of his final assignment talked about the "limits of freedom of expression in cartoons"). In this letter, he also firmly condemned the infamous Iranian Holocaust cartoon contest and said he was feeling deeply guilty about it. Here is the letter translated in English (Google translator). Ben doesn't deny the Holocaust, he visited Auschwitz Birkenau and feels sincerely sorry about the past suffering of the Jewish community.

2) Ben doesn't contribute to these websites anymore: DonQuichotte, MWC News, Rebelion, Tlaxcala, Irancartoon, Syriacartoon, Arabcartoon, Persiancartoon, Karikaturevi, Azercartoon, Dessin d'humour, National Caricaturist Network (Ben has explicitly asked these sites to remove all his illustrations from their platforms)

3) Ben doesn't collaborate with "La Libre Belgique" Anymore. Only 4 or 5 of his old cartoons have been published in this newspaper (in 2006 and 2007).

4) Pencil Vs Camera is not just a "little detail" in his biography, it is a creative and original series that has generated some huge reactions on the web and in the written press (see a non exhaustive list below). It is such an innovation that several TV channels around the world have also talked about it: Globo - Brazil, TV Brussel - Belgium, and many others). Same for "Digital Circlism"...

5) "Pere Ubu" (one of the main newspapers that clearly accused Heine in Belgium has removed the accusation from their site

6) Most of the links in the "notes" section (expecially the url's linking to images on Ben's blog) do not work...

7) Ben removed from his sites (blog, flickr, Deviantart and official site) all his cartoons accusing Israel or any Israeli person (Avigdor Lieberman...).

8) He didn't participate "recently" to the Kruger Workshop. This event happened in 2006! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cute-snoopy (talk • contribs) 09:07, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

The page you are replacing is not from 2006, it is from 2011, and contains his current activities. The new version minimizes the older negative reqasons he made the news though, and places extreme emphasis on his current activities. The older version also included things like "In 2011 he wrote an Open letter to the Jewish Community apologizing about his past behavior.", so it is not as if his changed position isn't presented. Please see WP:UNDUE, WP:COI and WP:SOCK, and get consensus from established editors here that what you are trying to achieve is acceptable. The best way to proceed is gently adding info to the article, not removing what was already there, and not misrepresenting the situation (no one is reposting "the old version of Heine's biography (from 2006!)", the version you oppose is clearly from 2011 and presents both the older controversies and the new work and impact). Fram (talk) 09:56, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

• note - The new version is an improvement imo. It could still use a little trim perhaps top remove a touch of the promotional aspect but its more balanced and informative. Off2riorob (talk) 10:20, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
• Second Off2riorob' The revision appears to be much more balanced and have much more thorough information, even though the approach to reverting the edits was poor practice on both editors part, but in general the changes appear to be useful, Sadads (talk) 11:16, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
  • The additions may be useful, the removals weren't. Please note how the new version severely reduces the attention given to the first three or four years of his career, and only focuses on the recent events. These were already added, and of course this could be expanded, but not in the way it is written now. Fram (talk) 11:38, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Note also how some of the above points by Cute-snoopy are incorrect: he e.g. collaborated with La Libre Belgique from at least 2006 to 2009 (and not 2007 as stated), as can be seen on his blog[1]. As for things he hazs retracted, things which are now removed, etcetera: of course his changed position should be mentioned, but we shouldn't ignore the earlier problems because he changed: we should present how he was then, and how he was regarded then, and how he has changed and what is his position and his notability now. Note that he is e.g. here accused of being an "accusateur systématique et permanent d'Israël et des Etats-Unis". The claims that this was only "experimentation" and "these drawings had been manipulated by extremist associations and how he lost control of the situation" are his own, post-facto claims. We don't normally only present someone's defense in a controversy without also presenting the accusations by other, more reliable sources like books or magazines. Fram (talk) 12:00, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

That google clip doesn't seem to mention him. Personally I think the previous version was a bit undue with the anti Semite accusations, but we could re add the satirical magazines claim and Heime's denial. The new section header Ben Heine#Political works is much NPOV than the old one Ben Heime#Views on Israel and Zionism Off2riorob (talk) 12:32, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

It mentions him, perhaps this works for you? As for actually discussing improvements, that is what we asked for from the start. Section headers, additional sources, ... are always welcome. Note how e.g. after the first complaints (which then had much more merit than now), I rewrote the intro and tweaked the rest to give a more accurate view of the situation[2]. But when that version (which had been worked on by me, Off2riorob, and others) is wiped away with an edit summary "I tried to bring more accurancy to a biography that was missing updates since years, I think."[3], and when another(?) editor states on this talk page "the current article is a text that appeared on Wikipedia in 2006 and that reflects what he did in that time only. ", even though the actual article may have been unbalanced but clearly included his 2010-2011 work as well, it gets hard to take their complaints seriously. A sudden appearance of four brand-new single purpose accounts also isn't helping to get any confidence in their intentions. Fram (talk) 12:50, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

No, those google book clips apparently show different things dependent of where you are in the world. I agree, we have a clear WP:sockpuppet issue here, it would be much better as the user seems well informed, if whoever it is, sticks to one account and to talkpage discussion. s the article has been expanded imo if a bit more of the comments about the Israel Palestinian work was now replaced to this version it would not be undue, in fact I think as it was a fair bit of note I would say it is required. Off2riorob (talk) 13:00, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, that's annoying (the Google Books thing, I mean). You'll have to take my word for it that it really is about him (but it is not as if he gets much more attention in the book than the sentence I quoted...) I'll see what I can do to somewhat merge the older version of this article into the new one, to get a more neutral balance of the old controversy and the new purely art-based fame. Feel free to try your hand at this yourself of course. Fram (talk) 13:06, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I made an addition to attempt to address this issue. Off2riorob (talk) 13:27, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

It's not "Heime", it's "Heine" (Ben Heine)

@Off2riorob : I saw your updates on his page. Many thanks for your interest about the artist, but it's "heine", not "heime". Why are you talking AGAIN about the critical article on Pere Ubu's site? This article has been removed from Pere Ubu's site long time ago: http://www.pereubu.be/?p=729 ("Article retiré du site de commun accord"). May be you don't understand french, please use Google Translation. Also, Heine has asked many times that his drawings should be removed from the "Iran Cartoon" platform (Holocaust contest). He has stated more than once that there was a manipulation and he wasn't even aware of it. Cute-snoopy (talk) 13:41, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

If there are spelling mistakes, please don't go on about them - just correct them. We have an WP:NPOV issue to report all aspects of a notable persons work. note - I corrected the spelling errors. At the end of the day - the subject was creating this controversial political art and to erase it from his Bio would be wrong. IMO - as it is now presented it is with less WP:WEIGHT and more WP:NPOV presented than the previous version. Off2riorob (talk) 20:13, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

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