Talk:Bobby Campbell (English footballer)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move. It's clearly a close run thing, with some good arguments made on both sides, but as this debate has been relisted once and is again inactive for eight days, I would conclude it's not going anywhere new and therefore maintain the title that has stood for four years since 2009.  — Amakuru (talk) 18:00, 17 July 2013 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

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• Bobby Campbell (English footballer) → Bobby Campbell (footballer born 1937)
• Bobby Campbell (Scottish footballer) → Bobby Campbell (footballer born 1922)

– To bring the pages in line with the naming convention used in WP:FOOTY and also to provide consistency with Bobby Campbell (footballer born 1956) which is already disambiguated in that form. --Relisted. -- tariqabjotu 17:53, 29 June 2013 (UTC) Bladeboy1889 (talk) 07:23, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 07:33, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose - there should be good reasons to disambiguate by date of birth instead of nationality, and in this case it isn't. In a recent related RM regarding two British footballers named Danny Wilson, there was a consensus to use date of birth because one of the players' nationality was not straight forward. In this case it is, we have one Scottish footballer, one English footballer and one Northern Irish footballer, so I'd suggest Bobby Campbell (footballer born 1956) to be moved to Bobby Campbell (Northern Irish footballer) instead of the nominators proposal. Mentoz86 (talk) 16:18, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

• There has already been a consensus at Bobby Campbell (footballer born 1956) against such a move due to edit warring over nationality.Bladeboy1889 (talk) 15:38, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

I find the move discussion, but I cannot find the edit warring over nationality. The history of that articles show a move-war in 2009, but that wasn't because of nationality or am I missing something? Mentoz86 (talk) 18:28, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

• Support - there is a strong case for making this move, based on both recent consensus and just plain common sense. GiantSnowman 08:28, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Your common sense is different than mine - I believe a title which disambiguate by nationality is more precise than by year of birth. It someone looks for the Scottish Bobby Campbell, they know that he is Scottish not necessarily what year he was born. Mentoz86 (talk) 09:25, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
    • Footballer's nationality has a habit of changing over time (and is often the cause of edit warring), their date of birth doesn't. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 10:12, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
      • Precisely. Nationality is clearly less precise than YOB. GiantSnowman 10:26, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
      • Yes, but in this case all three have retired long time ago, and the chance that their nationality will change is close to zero. Mentoz86 (talk) 18:28, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose present means of disambiguation is more straightforward, and don't see anything about this at WP:FOOTY. PatGallacher (talk) 23:43, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
• Support; date of birth easily is the least astonishing alternative. Red Slash 07:21, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
• Support Is there any evidence that the 'English' player is actually 'English', whatever that means. Best stick to facts that are indisputable, such as year of birth. Eldumpo (talk) 19:52, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

What? Being born in Liverpool and playing your entire professional career in England isn't enough? --BDD (talk) 17:58, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose per Mentoz86. We frequently resort to disambiguation by birth year in football given difficulties disambiguating by position, but birth year disambiguation should still only be used when other alternatives have been exhausted. Readers are more likely to know a person's nationality than birth year, and we should use the more helpful disambiguator. --BDD (talk) 17:58, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

• What are you basing your "Readers are more likely to know a person's nationality than birth year" comment on? GiantSnowman 18:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Primarily WP:NCPDAB, which had language to that effect until it was removed relatively recently—without discussion, as far as I can tell. Also just a dose of common sense. I could name you the nationality of every senior player on my favo(u)rite team, but I could only give you one or two birth years, and that's if I'm making lucky guesses. If one of these Bobby Campbells were born in the 90s, that might be one thing—you could easily look at the dates and figure out which one. As such, nationality seems much more useful for the core goal of distinguishing between the people. --BDD (talk) 19:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

n.b. That language at NCPDAB was around since 2008. --BDD (talk) 19:14, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.