Talk:Children's anime and manga

Why does an article on the Japanese word for child not even state that Kodomo is indeed the japanese word for child?

So why does an article on the Japanese word for child not even state that Kodomo is indeed the japanese word for child? This should be fixed or the article name should be changed. 24.215.67.146 14:44, 12 August 2007 (UTC) ???

The japanese article is 子供向けアニメ and not just 子供. Is there a reason that the article name in english is just "child" and not "child animation"? RotemDan 05:26, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Does anybody have answer? RotemDan 11:16, 28 March 2007 (UTC)]

I'm guessing it's because someone wrote this without full knowledge of the facts in Japanese. I'm going to clarify the beginning.Neoyamaneko 02:25, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Hello. I started this article some time ago. If you look back, you will notice that the original text of the article was a simple definition of the word "Kodomo" (e.g. "child". While this beginning text has evolved into something quite different, you can see that it started off as a simple and accurate definition. Frankly, I don't care whether this article survives or not, but please note that I never intended the article to evolve into a particular description of anime. I don't know when someone removed my original text of the definition, but I'm sure you can look back and find it if you want. --Xaliqen (talk) 22:42, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

A definition of a foreign word belongs in Wiktionary, not Wikipedia. Matt Thorn (talk) 01:28, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of where it supposedly belongs, I believe the original definition is far more appropriate (and accurate) than a description of manga for children. In any event, I'm not quite sure what you're driving at, since the article is in quite a different state at present than when I started it awhile back. If your purpose is merely to inform based on your current understanding, then please consider me informed of your opinion. --Xaliqen (talk) 07:45, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

This Article needs some help.

Hello, I'm a annoynamous editer on wikipedia, but I will join up to help edit better. I recently was looking at [Manga] and [Anime] talk pages, and I saw how much there sub-topic articles needed work, and I figured that I could help write the Kodomo article, since no one was even talking about it. I clicked the link to the kodomo page, and saw that the article leaves much to be desired. So, if you wikians don't mind, I'll set up a account, and write a draft for the page soon (november-ish). Here's my first citation link. http://www.comicreaders.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=96 Anyone want to collab with me, I'll put my account name up soon. Pleasure to be writing with you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.110.133.216 (talk) 01:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

This article should be renamed

I am a native speaker of Japanese. "Kodomo" in Japanese connotes child or children in general usage. Kodomo in Japanese does not connote "anime intended for children". I met a young anime fan from an English-speaking region who believed Kodomo connotes "anime intended for children". He said to me, "Do you like kodomo?" and I got confused and said, "Huh? What are you talking about?" I think this article should be renamed to something like Kodomo (animation). Gleamdiscoversdarkside (talk) 04:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree that Kodomo is a very confusing name. However, Kodomo (animation) would only be appropriate if the lead is correct in asserting that the word "kodomo" alone is frequently used in English to refer to that particular anime "genre", a dubious claim I believe. Perhaps Kodomo anime would make a better title?

On another note, I think the magical girl shows mentioned in the article are generally thought of as shōjo anime among English-speaking audiences (their respective pages say so too). The japanese ja:子供向けアニメ article has a long discussion of 女児アニメ and suggests those shows as examples (among others). It has some OR problems, apparently, but even if we are to take it for granted that something like Precure is 女児アニメ, I'd surmise that it's still not what comes to people mind when talking about 子供向けアニメ. I'd appreciate some thoughts, there, though. Bikasuishin (talk) 22:09, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Notability concerns

Indeed, it may better to scrap the article altogether. There are several problems that seem difficult to overcome:

• As far as I know, there is no such thing as a "Kodomo manga magazine". Magazines serializing manga suitable for younger children still get classified as shōnen and shōjo. So by the logic we use to set the "demographic" tags, there may not be any "kodomo manga" at all.

• The phrase "kodomo anime" is not uncommon in Japanese (ABC TV's used to run a slot during school breaks called Kodomo anime taikai for example), but it may refer to either the type of anime this article describes, or anime suitable for children in general (not just younger children), and it's not always clear which. The longest essay I could find on the subject is the Japanese version of this article (which is marked for V and OR).

• I don't remember seeing the term ever occurring in English literature regarding manga and anime. I'm not an avid reader of it either, but I was quite surprised when stumbling on this page (especially considering its previous name).

I'll try to have a closer look at a few English books on anime on Monday just in case, but I'd say the article as it stands can go. Bikasuishin (talk) 21:29, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

If you ask me, Kodomo probably is just the Japanese way of saying "Children's television series". I fail to see how this could be considered a genre, let alone a category. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:38, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. There is no such genre. This article offers nothing of value, and is confused and confusing. Matt Thorn (talk) 15:17, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. -GTBacchus^(talk) 06:08, 2 September 2008 (UTC) Kodomo anime and manga → Kodomo manga — See Talk:Shōjo manga/Archive 2#Requested move for reasoning. — Eruhildo (talk) 05:31, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Oppose as there is clearly anime and manga aimed at very young kids (Anpanman, for example). ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 05:55, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Then why didn't move Shōjo to Shōjo anime and manga? Sidenote: this article desperately needs to be sourced. T_T --Eruhildo (talk) 04:25, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree this needs to be sourced. And I've changed my mind. In order to be consistent, this should be moved to Kodomo manga. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 04:44, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

P-Pokemon?!

Pokemon seems more shounen-e,then Kodomo-e. Sure,it's often childish but,that doesn't mean it's not a shounen. 98.14.15.12 (talk) 00:51, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

• The Japanese Pokemon manga are serialized in the Kodomo Manga called CoroCoro Comic, (Its main target is elementary school aged boys, younger than the readers of shōnen manga. Several of its properties, like Doraemon and the Pokémon series of games have gone on to be cultural phenomena in Japan. It is one of the few Shogakukan publications to use furigana and common punctuation marks in their manga.) (O'erTheRampardos (talk) 04:05, 1 March 2009 (UTC))
  • Yes, Pokemon is kodomo-muke manga, just like Azumanga Daioh is seinen, not shōjo like some people seem to think. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 19:25, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Let's see how Pokémon, both the anime and manga, compare to the qualities this page states that kodomo has. "'Kodomo' works are noted for stories that are often very moralistic, teaching children how to behave as good and considerate people."

Anime: Yes, there are occasionally times when morals will be effectively written on a 50-foot glowing neon sign, but most of those were added by the dubbers. In fact, there have only been a few times in the entire series where morals are blatantly stated in the original Japanese version, which is what matters when determining the demographic. Furthermore, Ash has collaborated with Team Rocket several times, something that would never happen in anything with the purpose of teaching young children morals.

Manga: The manga never states any morals outright. In addition, the protagonists collaborate with the Team Rocket executives to bring down the Elite Four, but if it truly had the purpose of teaching small children how to behave morally, the protagonists would have defeated the executives again and taken down the Elite Four on their own.

"The episodes are generally standalone and non-episodic in order to appeal to a child's short attention span."

Anime: In Kanto, there were very few filler episodes, so virtually every episode was connected and contributed to the plot. In Johto, there was a lot of fillers, but there was still some vague hints of a plot (and a few of the fillers, such as the Ninetales one, were actually pretty good). Hoenn and Sinnoh still had more fillers than Kanto, but the amount was much less than Johto and there was more of a plot again.

Manga: There are no fillers at all in the manga, and just about every page is important to the plot. In addition, sometimes items will show up that seem unimportant and are quickly forgotten, but have enormous importance later in the story. If it were really aimed at small children with no attention span, this wouldn't happen at all.

Therefore, Pokémon is not Kodomo.--68.89.211.93 (talk) 00:00, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but your arguments don't wash. Because Pokemon is published in a manga magazine with a "kodomo-muke" demographic, it is by default kodomo-muke manga. Please do not remove it again. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 03:59, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't mater what you think, your reasoning is all original research based on your personal point of view. It can be verified that it is a Kodomo manga based on the manga magazines it was serialized in. You will need some extraordinary reliable sources stating that its target demographic is something else. --Farix (Talk) 11:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

It's WP:SYNTH unless you can provide a WP:RS that specifically says "Pokémon is kodomo manga" or some variant of that. And using the fact that it appears in Coro Coro is WP:OR. Also, I think it's funny that your counterarguments are about the manga, yet the text you keep re-adding to the page is about the anime. --Contributions/68.89.211.93 (talk) 12:24, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

No, you are the one claiming that it is something other then the demographic of the manga magazine it ran it. You are the one that has to provide a reliable source that the demographic is something other then the demographic of the manga magazine. Judging a manga by its content is original research. --Farix (Talk) 12:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

You still have to provide a WP:RS or it's WP:OR and can therefore be removed completely. --Contributions/68.89.211.93 (talk) 17:16, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

If you remove it again, you will be blocked. The demographic of manga is based solely on the magazine in which it ran. Period. There is no room for discussion on this issue, and your continued refusal to accept that is becoming disruptive. Please stop now and try to be productive rather than disruptive. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 19:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Nihonjoe, please also see CoroCoro Comic‎, which he/she has removed all references to Pokémon and also Pokémon Adventures‎'. --Farix (Talk) 20:24, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Looks like they put everything back. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 10:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Title

This page should be at Kodomo anime and manga. --Mathemagician57721 (talk) 01:56, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

How about this article? 81.162.216.13 (talk) 15:00, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Source to start from?

(Excuse my english) I think a good start for the revised version of the article could be from http://www.jappleng.com/articles/view/manga/1/kodomo_genre

I think there is a difference between kodomo and kodomo ai? I'm no expert on the subject but I think that ai kodomo or kodomo ai refers to anime/manga like kodomo no jukan while kodomo by itself is for children. --75.61.81.66 (talk) 21:58, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

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Article title change

@Vaporgaze: Can you discuss your rationale to WP:BOLD rename the article from Children's anime and manga to Kodomo anime and manga as seen in this edit? The demographic in itself already has an English equivalent which we can use. lullabying (talk) 20:38, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

@Lullabying: Firstly, I explained why I moved the article in my edit summary: "Anime and manga aimed towards this age range is more commonly referred to using the word kodomo." However, I am now unsure if that is the case, as I have no sources to back this up.

Secondly, if you moved this article back because "the demographic in itself already has an English equivalent which we can use" then why does nobody seem to want to move Shōjo manga to Girls' manga?--Vaporgaze (talk) 17:09, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

• @Vaporgaze: I think no one moves Shōjo manga to girls' comics because "shōjo" is so ubiquitously and commonly used to describe those demographics. lullabying (talk) 17:38, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

@Lullabying: But so is "kodomo", or so I think.(As stated above, I am unsure.)--Vaporgaze (talk) 17:46, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

• @Vaporgaze: The term for "children's anime" (etc.) is "kodomo-muke anime", which literally translates to "anime aimed at kids." I suppose if you do not have sources to back up how commonly it is used, we should wait before changing the article title per WP:NORUSH. lullabying (talk) 18:50, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Can you show that "kodomo" is widely used as a demographic description by reliable English-language sources? "Children's manga" is the term that ANN and Crunchyroll use in their reporting. —Farix (t | c) 19:33, 7 June 2019 (UTC)