Talk:David M. Shoup

Matsonia

A very minor note that the ship Matsonia (formerly SS Malolo) was indeed owned by the US government during WWII, which is why it was entered as "USS Matsonia" in this article until a recent edit trimmed it back to just Matsonia. At the start of the war, the US government bought a number of private ships for troop and supply movement, and in many cases offered them back to their original owners at a bargain price after the war. This is the case with Matsonia (ex-Malolo), though I don't know if the ship was specifically designated 'USS' rather than 'USAT' or similar; diaries and journals of the period often get this detail wrong. Binksternet (talk) 10:24, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

General Shoup Bio

I enlisted in the Marine Corps in June 1955 , serving in 2/5 Camp Pen. ;Amtracs Yokosuka ; 9th Mid - Camp Fuji and Oki.; then, in 1959 untill discharge in Oct, at Div. Comm.Camp Pen. I am not aware of how closely or, distantly related I and the General might be and that is not the subject of this posting . I have entered the foregoing merely to pre - answer anyone who may be curious about our shared last name. That said, I would be most honored were I to learn that the General and myself were very closely related .RE: General Shoup's Bio . I recall that Gen. Krulak was 3rd Div. C.O. while I was in Japan : Feb.1957 to (Oct?/Nov?)1957,my time split between C Co.Amtracs at Yokosuka and the 9th at Fuji. Following the first Sputnik, the 9th Regt. took us to Oki.. This is where my own memory gets a bit cloudy , as to who our Div. C.O. was and, (my memory) is'nt helped any (a) Due to a couple of TAD's ,which, at the end of each, we were told , "gather 'round Marines, this never happened ,right !" ..., "aye aye sir". And (b) I have looked through a few Gen. Shoup Bio's ,some saying he was C.O. 3rd Div. in 1958 . I do not recall the same being the case . I do recall that he commanded the 1st Div. in 1959 while I was there . The "few" Bio's all seem to differ not only from each other but from the perspective of my own memory . Case in point : As an enlisted man (Div.Comm.-1959 I rec'd a piece of mail simply addressed to "D. Shoup 1st Marine Division Camp Pendleton , California ." Opening the envelope I realized (the stock offering) was sure not intended for me but for the General .I walked across the (100 ?) yards to Div.Headquarters and put the envelope on the Adjutants desk, no one being around and I was perfectly happy about that . In my very young mind I did not want to go through any explanations etc... . "Very young" as I had enlisted at the age of 16 .Can anyone firm-up an EXACT Bio of the General's locations of Command, for 1955 - 1959 , inclusive ? Thanks to any and all who endeavor to put the history of this Marine in correct sequence. Dennis38 (talk) 04:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC) Dennis Shoup

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:David M. Shoup/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Retrolord (talk · contribs) 08:15, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi! I'll review this one. ★★RetroLord★★ 08:15, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

This doesn't really fit under any of the criterion, but you use unexpectedly twice in the lead. If possible, could you please change this? I certainly won't make it an issue here but if you plan to take this to FA level you may have issues regarding not varying the prose. ★★RetroLord★★ 09:00, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 02:12, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

"From an early age, Shoup was molded by progressive ideas of Indiana politicians, sympathizing with rural progressives' fighting with the interests of big businesses. He developed an anti-imperialist attitude.[9] His skepticism about American foreign policy influenced by a small-town background would make him an outspoken opponent of the unnecessary use of military force. Shoup felt the use of troops for what he considered economic or imperialist consideration were wrong, and would be a viewpoint he would carry for his entire career.[10]" There are a few problems with this paragraph. I think it could do without the "influenced by a small-town background" part, and could you please ref the part that says "outspoken opponent"? Also, is there a better spot in the article for this paragraph? It doesn't seem to suit the Early Years section, but i'll let it stay if we can't find another spot for it. ★★RetroLord★★ 09:15, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Added the ref. About graph placement, I tried finding other places for it but this seems about it; this viewpoint affected his military career from the first deployment to China, and it was caused by the viewpoint he had growing up. —Ed!^(talk) 02:12, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	"While he remained opposed to what he saw as undue military escalation in events such as Cuban missile crisis and the Bay of Pigs invasion, Shoup's opposition to involvement in South Vietnam escalated after he retired from the military in 1963." This sentence is a bit confusing. Could you rewrite it? At the moment, it isn't very clear what point it is trying to make. Could you please look at this? Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 02:30, 14 March 2013 (UTC) "moved to Covington, Indiana to a new farm in 1916" This sentence doesn't flow very well. Perhaps we could change it to "moved to Covington, Indiana, to live on a new farm in 1916"? As it stands, the double use of "to" is the problem. Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 02:30, 14 March 2013 (UTC) " Zola De Haven his freshmen year" I assume this is meant to be " Zola De Haven in his freshmen year"? Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 02:30, 14 March 2013 (UTC) "which allowed him full tuition" I'm not sure what this sentence means, I think it means that his scholarship paid for his fees, but at the moment the sentence doesn't communicate that fact very well, could you please change it? Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 02:30, 14 March 2013 (UTC) "On 5 July the battalion was moved to Tientsin to protect American interests there should Chinese Nationalist troops threaten it" Change to "troops threaten them", as in, the interests, at the moment its a bit unclear. Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 12:15, 18 March 2013 (UTC) "After the element of surprise was lost elsewhere in the attack" This is also a bit unclear, is it possible to rewrite? Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 12:15, 18 March 2013 (UTC) "He deployed Task Unit Shufly to Saigon in 1962 under orders' What does that mean? Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 22:37, 1 April 2013 (UTC) "His activities were reported by the Federal Bureau of Investigation" What does that mean? Also why the capital H? Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 22:37, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	"claiming to have instantly being taken by her" I'm not quite sure what this means. It also seems a bit too colloquial for an encyclopedic article. Could you rewrite this? Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 02:30, 14 March 2013 (UTC) "narrowly missing Phi Beta Kappa Society" This sentence is also a bit too colluqial. I don't see how you "narrowly miss" a society. I assume you mean he narrowly failed the selection or something similar, but this also constitutes unneccessary detail, so could you please remove this sentence? Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 02:30, 14 March 2013 (UTC) "Despite his scholarship Shoup waited tables" Could we remove the "Despite his scholarship" part? It implies that his actions were unneccessary. Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 02:30, 14 March 2013 (UTC) "pull-out from Vietnam" Withdrawal? Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 22:37, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	"won the Indiana and Kentucky Amateur Athletic Union marathon in 1925" Could you ref this please Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 02:30, 14 March 2013 (UTC) "From an early age, Shoup was molded by progressive ideas of Indiana politicians, sympathizing with rural progressives' fighting with the interests of big businesses" Could you ref this also? Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 02:30, 14 March 2013 (UTC) "In this post, Shoup taught the post's pistol and rifle teams to shoot competitively. They won at least one major competition. During this time, he also had time to observe the troops of the Empire of Japan, gaining great respect for their discipline. In 1936, he came down with a serious case of pneumonia and had to be evacuated from China. His next duty was at Puget Sound Navy Yard. In October 1936, he was promoted to captain. In July 1937 he entered Junior Course, Marine Corps Schools in Quantico, which he completed in May 1938" Where is the ref for this one? Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 12:15, 18 March 2013 (UTC) "He was then assigned to the Office of the Fiscal Director, Headquarters Marine Corps, serving as Assistant Fiscal Director. In this position, Shoup served under Major General William P. T. Hill, the Quartermaster General. Ordered by Marine Corps Commandant General Lemuel C. Shepherd to establish a new fiscal office independent of Hill's authority, Shoup and Hill clashed frequently but Shoup was nonetheless able to establish a new, independent Fiscal Division. He was promoted to brigadier general in April 1953. In July 1953, Shoup was named Fiscal Director of the Marine Corps. He became involved in fiscal strategy hearings before the U.S. Congress and in this time established a programming system where officers researched and thought out programs before bringing them to congress" Can we get a ref for this? Fixed. —Ed!(talk) 12:15, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
	2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	Krulak became an expert in counterinsurgency, can we remove this? Removed. —Ed!(talk) 22:37, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.

I'll be away for a few days but I'll get back to this promptly. —Ed!^(talk) 13:56, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Fixed all comments. Thanks for your review! —Ed!^(talk) 02:30, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Bridge

I am not sure if this is important enough to include in the article, but the bridge over the Wabash River at Covington, Indiana, is named for General Shoup. [1] Omnedon (talk) 03:27, 5 October 2013 (UTC)