Talk:Deif family killings

Compiled some starting content from other pages

There was a sentence or two about this on several pages, I'll list any pages I copied content from here:

• Timeline of the 2014 Gaza War

MWQs (talk) 04:00, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Smaller bits of copied content are listed in the edit summaries. MWQs (talk) 21:56, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 3 July 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Deif family killings. Numerous titles were proposed here, though the current one was widely agreed to be too imprecise. The general consensus appears to lean towards Deif family killings, as some supporters stated that it was WP:CONCISE and a common title format (WP:CONSISTENT) (closed by non-admin page mover) The Night Watch (talk) 22:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

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The killing of the wife, daughter, and infant son of Mohammed Deif → Killing of the Deif family – I feel this title is better due to WP:Precision, as it isn't necessary to state exactly what relation each of the casualties was to Mohammed Deif. TRCRF22 (talk) 19:26, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

somewhat oppose - I agree it should be shorter, but it needs to communicate that the father survived. We could use their names "the killing of Widad Asfoura, Sarah Deif, and Ali Deif" (the current title is from before I found Sarah's name). MWQs (talk) 23:16, 3 July 2024 (UTC) sock strike. – robertsky (talk) 03:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Or if there's a "no the" policy, killing of Widad Asfoura, Sarah Deif, and Ali Deif. Sarah is sometimes referred to as "Sara Al-Masri" (her dad's birth name) and a few stories assume Widad took her husband's name Deif, but Widad Asfoura, Sarah Deif, and Ali Deif are the most recognisable names. Also "Ali Deif" is used very often in sources, whereas "Deif family" is uncommon. MWQs (talk) 02:43, 4 July 2024 (UTC) sock strike. – robertsky (talk) 03:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

How about Deif family killings? Killuminator (talk) 18:54, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

@Killuminator that sounds the wrong way around? That sounds like "Manson Family murders"? What's wrong with three names? Like Killing of Alon Shamriz, Yotam Haim, and Samer Talalka? MWQs (talk) 06:19, 5 July 2024 (UTC) sock strike. – robertsky (talk) 03:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

"killing of the Deif family" is probably better. MWQs (talk) 06:31, 5 July 2024 (UTC) sock strike. – robertsky (talk) 03:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

as in better than Deif family killings. MWQs (talk) 06:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC) sock strike. – robertsky (talk) 03:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Support move to something along the lines of Killing of Widad Asfoura, Sarah Deif, and Ali Deif or Killing of the Deif family. If what MWQs said about Deif family not being well-supported in the sources is true, prefer the former. or Deif family killings, which I see after searching a bit for other examples is much more common of an article title format than "Killing/Murder of the (name) family". Kinsio (talk ★ contribs ★ rights) 06:49, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

• Move to Airstrike on Mohammed Deif. He was the intended target. The current title is far too convoluted and unclear. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:51, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

  Seems like a rather implausible title when it is entirely unknown whether the airstrike was in fact on the man. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

  Well, that's what the article says! one of the only cases where the intended target is known. Do you intend to rewrite it? -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:55, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

  @Necrothesp: That would be completely unprecedented, and a bit strange, as the main topic of the article is not what the IDF claimed they intended to do, but rather what actually happened. The current title is indeed a bit convoluted but I don't see how that's not addressed by one of the options already put forward. Kinsio (talk ★ contribs ★ rights) 14:53, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

  What actually happened is that there was an airstrike targeted at one man in which other people died (and he didn't). How is my proposed title inaccurate? It seems to me that it's entirely accurate. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:05, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

  Off the top of my head, Haska Meyna wedding party airstrike is one example illustrating that articles about these sorts of strikes are named after who or what they actually hit, not the claimed intended target (in accordance with the way they're inevitably referred to in RS). Kinsio (talk ★ contribs ★ rights) 15:21, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

  Given the airstrike hit Deif's house this is a very clear case of hair-splitting. It wasn't a mistaken target. It was the intended target. He just escaped. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:06, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

  @Necrothesp: how are you so certain about what the intended target was, and/or that Mohammed Deif was at the house on the day of the strike? The IDF are known to have carried out various forms of collective punishment against Palestinians including destruction of militant’s family homes for decades. Given the extreme atmosphere of hatred among some sectors of Israeli society, it seems very possible that whoever ordered the strike decided to destroy Deif’s home without any care for who was in it at the time, or possibly with full knowledge but having decided to designate Deif’s wife and children as terrorists. Onceinawhile (talk) 12:53, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

  Merely going by what the article itself says! Or rather, said before it was recently altered. I have no political agenda; I am merely suggesting an alternative to the current awful title. And my suggestion still appears to me to be a sensible one. If it was an aistrike on Deif's home, it was still an airstrike against Deif, was it not? It wasn't some random house being hit. But how about Airstrike on Mohammed Deif's house? -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:13, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

  @Necrothesp: thanks and understood. I am ok with that alternative proposal.

  FYI in an uncanny but tragic coincidence, look what happened today: July 2024 Al-Mawasi airstrikes, with the same excuse. Worth reading the article non-combatant casualty value in this context. I wonder how many innocent people have been killed by Israel in the name of "targeting of Mohammed Deif". According to journalist Muhammad Shehada on X, "This is the 16th time that Israel tries to justify a murderous bloodbath by claiming they were targeting Mohammed al-Daif of Hamas". Would be good to see the list.

  Onceinawhile (talk) 15:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  @Necrothesp: Your proposal is not sufficiently precise, as Deif has been the target of multiple airstrikes over the years. (Mohammed Deif: The one-eyed Hamas chief in Israel's crosshairs, BBC News) TRCRF22 (talk) 16:25, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

  Well, that's very easy to resolve. 2024 airstrike on Mohammed Deif! -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:04, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

  I presume you meant to suggest 2014 airstrike on Mohammed Deif. TRCRF22 (talk) 09:21, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

  Naturally. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:27, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

• I have objected to the G5 deletion after MWQs was sock-blocked. I do not have a strong feeling on whether this should be kept, but there seems to be enough other editors with interest that there should be a discussion. I agree that some move is necessary if this is kept, but do not have a strong preference between the suggested alternate titles. Walsh90210 (talk) 01:16, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support Deif family killings and Killing of Widad Asfoura, and Sarah and Ali Deif. The entire family wasn't killed, just three members of it.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 23:52, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

  @Vice regent:

  The entire family wasn't killed, just three members of it.

  To be fair, from looking around, there are numerous incidents referred to in article titles as the "(name) family murders/killings" where only some of the family members were killed. Kinsio (talk ★ contribs ★ rights) 07:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

  Support either of these, though prefer the former for brevity. Iskandar323 (talk) 13:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

  Support Deif family killings, as long as nobody gets the impressions it was the family doing the killing (the only issue I can find with that, but I think this format is probably more common here so it should be okay) ASUKITE 16:07, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.