Talk:Flea (Chrono Trigger)

They/Them Pronouns

This is incorrect. In all versions of the game, Flea gets offended and corrects the party member who assumes from appearance alone that Flea is a 'she' and explicitly prefers to be called a 'he' as called by others. It's outright misrepresentating the character to indicate otherwise. If the idea is to "modernize" the character (which is not Wikipedia's domain), keep in mind that Flea overtly has traits of an otokonoko, which as the article specifies is not necessarily a statement on identity or orientation and has no real western equivalent. This article's sources seem ignorant of that fact and write from a western perspective of limited understanding, and to wit, none of the references refer to Flea as 'they' and in fact several respect the game script by referring to Flea as a 'he' instead. Wikipedia seems to be exclusively making that assertion. Metalsonic89 (talk) 12:18, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

I just used they/them because it was a simpler solution at the time than to pick one or the other. I had planned to switch the pronouns to he/him when I took it to GA, though if you want to change them I couldn't really be bothered. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 22:03, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Flea (Chrono Trigger)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Axem Titanium (talk · contribs) 04:29, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Heya Abryn. Nice little article you got there... would be a shame if someone... reviewed it. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:29, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Actually, that sounds quite good. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 04:52, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   See comments below.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   See comments.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

• Lead
• Wikilink cameo, LGBT
• Chrono Cross is overlinked in the lead
• "He serves as an antagonist and as a minion to the antagonist Magus, and cameos in the sequel, Chrono Cross." This sentence seems to be leftover/duplicated from an earlier sentence in the lead. Also the word "antagonist" appears 3 times in the lead, consider rewording to avoid this.
• NB and GQ redirect to the same place. You can pipe link the phrase or delink one.
• C&C
• "Flea ends all of his sentences with "yo ne" in the Japanese version, intended to be "sickeningly cutesy."" - Unclear which source this is cited to.
• Can you find hiragana for 'yo ne' and 'atai'? One of the few cases where extra moon runes is useful to the reader. Also wikilink to Japanese pronouns
• wikilink localization, maybe even the Square Enix localization page
• " the sexual culture of Flea's character" Is 'culture' the right word here? I see it's in the ref but I think it's being used in a different sense in this sentence.
• Wikilink Nintendo DS; "Nintendo DS port's English localization"?
• Appearances
• Ref #7 fails to verify that Flea is Magus' subordinate. You can cite the game directly here to a line in the script maybe?
• "He is encountered ... actually a man" switch to active voice
• "later" appears twice in quick succession, consider rewording
• Ref #8 fails to verify that Ozzy and Slash also appear in Chrono Cross and in what context
• Reception
• Include a page number for Ref #9
• "Williams noted that despite the designation of okama, which he cites sociologist James Valentine's statement that okama fail at passing as women, Flea passes for a woman quite well" - this sentence, especially the subordinate clause, doesn't flow well. What are you trying to convey here?
• "inadequate for this" - inadequate for this what?
• Inappropriate use of the word "meanwhile". Meanwhile is only used when the two events are happening simultaneously. Consider another transition word.
• New paragraph break when you start discussing the iconic 'power and beauty' line, start with a topic sentence indicating this ("Many commentators praised Flea's iconic line yadda yadda", something like that). With this new paragraph, you have the space to split Lorraine and Luke's thoughts into their own sentences instead of mushing them together as if they were in conversation
• "Regarded the line as one of the "greatest pro-trans dialogue in gaming history"" - this reads kinda awkward to me. First, the author says it's THE greatest, not one of the greatest. Also a single line isn't really dialogue. Maybe "Jacob Ogles regarded it as the "greatest pro-trans [line] in gaming history"?
• "The Escapist ... indicator of villainy" - 'use' appears 3x in the same sentence, try to reword to avoid this

@Abryn: Good work, tight little article. Just some nitpicks as a copyeditor. Axem Titanium (talk) 08:23, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

• • Sorry, still working on it, got most of the stuff done, just gotta deal with the hiragana and reception. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 23:36, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
    • No worries, take your time. Axem Titanium (talk) 01:21, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
      • @Abryn: I found the hiragana from a JP script dump so all that's left is reception. Axem Titanium (talk) 09:14, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
        • Oh thank you much, I had found 'atai' but not 'yo ne' yet. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 09:51, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
          • Alright with that, I think it's good to go. Congrats! Axem Titanium (talk) 22:04, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

AMAZING WORK BOTH OF YOU! You just put us over the top for the first time ever! More articles are now GA or better than not! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:12, 18 June 2020 (UTC)