Talk:Hell on Wheels (TV series)

Calgary Herald references

In the Filming section, I noticed the Calgary Herald reference has since died. When you go to find it again, they charge $5 to read it. I haven't found another reference to that section's quotes so I will leave it for now. If anyone quotes CH in the future, take heed that the newspaper doesn't keep many of the articles online free to view for long. — Wyliepedia 03:59, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I think this is the article you speak of. A quick googling of the title in quotation marks produces a couple of sources for it. A simple use of webcitation.org's archive service should solve any problem related to Calgary Herald references. delirious & lost ☯ ^~hugs~ 11:58, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

63 on Metacritic is not "Mixed".

This page mentions that Hell on Wheels Metacritic score is 63, which by Metacritic standards means "Generally Favorable" not mixed. And while I will admit that 63 is almost as low as you can get before you reach mixed (thus indicating that the reveiws are indeed mixed from a non-Metacritic perspective), they are not mixed as far as the source is concerned. So I feel that the sentence: "The show was given a 63 out of 100 on Metacritic based on 27 reviews, indicating mixed reviews." Should be changed to: "The show was given a 63 out of 100 on Metacritic based on 27 reviews, indicating generally favorable reviews."

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.57.52.218 (talk) 21:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

First, please sign your posts here, but from the History of the page, we know who you are. Second, I was the one who posted the original Metacritic review and didn't add the "gen fav" part, as the yellow critic "mixed" line was higher than positive and the negative. I didn't even see the tiny print of "Gen Fav." However, to satisfy the current issue I quoted "gen fav" here to reference their reviews, and added a note in the History. I personally think "mixed" covers it, as 14 of 27 critics went either way with it.

I also took the critic reviews below the Meta line from the critics listed at Meta. Brian Lowry's was rated a 50; Robert Lloyd's 60. To me, that's more mixed than favorable. Also, here is the site's explanation of their "averages": "Metascore is a weighted average in that we assign more importance, or weight, to some critics and publications than others, based on their quality and overall stature. It seems to me they grade the person, their pub, and their work, more than the show itself.

Worst case scenario: I'll remove the entire Metacritic line, seeing as I was the one who put it there. — Wyliepedia 03:25, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Controversy section

Thinking of adding a section on how Chinese American workers on the railroad were not included in the show. Understandably, the creators have mentioned that they may bring Chinese Americans into the show on later season but due to the sizable outcry from the Asian American community over this issue, I think it's worth mentioning on this page. I already have a few sources, wondering if anyone has any others they know of? Or if they disagree with this change altogether?Abcgoldfox (talk) 23:41, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

↑ That ↑ should be okay since I've seen other series articles with Criticism sections and have also heard the same about HoW. Just be sure you have reliable, verifiable sources. — Wyliepedia 02:27, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

This is a bit off-topic but from a historical accuracy standpoint in reality there were very few Chinese or other Asian workers on the Union Pacific. U.P. used mostly Irish and other immigrants, and African-Americans -- as is portrayed in HoW. It was the SOUTHERN Pacific (coming from the other direction) that used the large amount of Chinese workers. Since HoW is based around the U.P. end of the project I don't see where Asian-Americans have grounds to be making a stink. If the series were based on S.P.'s building, then heck yes they have a beef. Again, off-topic and just my take on it as an amature historian. But if a section on Chinese American complaints is added, it might be worth mentioning the aforementioned facts. Sector001 (talk) 03:49, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah mainly adding just so there is awareness about the fact that there is some controversy around the decision not to include Chinese Americans. I know that since the story focuses mostly on the Union Pacific end of the railroad, there isn't much reason to include Chinese American workers since they worked on the Central Pacific side. But based on what I've read, the intention was originally to include both sides of the railroad but they ended up deciding to drop the Central Pacific side due to costs. While they are still justified in the making of their decision, it did seem like a huge lost opportunity and I wanted people to be aware of that. I'll go ahead and add a little section on it then but feel free to change or correct anything that might need to be clarified. I'll be sure to include the disclaimer as well.Abcgoldfox (talk) 22:07, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I also think it was Central (not Southern) Pacific who relied on Chinese workers. (see here) The Union Pacific hired mostly Irishmen to build theirs, but I guess "dramatic licenses" are named that for a reason. And as always, someone will always complain about something in a TV show. Regardless, I fixed the references links in the Controversy section. Please do them properly next time. — Wyliepedia 13:13, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

ABCgoldfox - where are the sources you said you would add when you added the section? The cited article does explain their answer regarding budget, but doesn't mention the source of any actual controversy, and also doesn't really explain the historical facts all that well. There should be a better source for both the existence of a controversy and the historical facts (the latter of which currently comes off as borderline original research). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.74.57.100 (talk) 15:45, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

I had the same concern when reading this article. The current reference is mostly just quote of a question (about the lack of Chinese characters) and an answer from the producers. The producers evidently interpreted the question as "Why doesn't the show cover the Central Pacific?" with their response about being able to cover only one RR at a time and why they chose the Union Pacific.

A better source, despite being a blog post, might be Jeff Yang's "Do Chinese Pioneers Get Railroaded in AMC’s ‘Hell on Wheels’?" at the WSJ. It includes quotes about historical accuracy from William G. Thomas (U. Nebraska-Lincoln) and Charles A. Vollan (South Dakota State U). Also, perhaps the paragraph could be merged into critical reception or production? —Mrwojo (talk) 19:00, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Update

In the fifth and final season, the series will look at the Chinese's part in constructing the railroads, particularly from the Central Pacific's perspective. Timely, since that is where Cullen ended up at the end of the fourth. — Wyliepedia 04:47, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Ian Tracey

Was a minor character in the first five or so episodes. He was the lead hench man for the Swed (both from Sanctuary). Possibly note worthy as the lead character (Mr Bohanon) interaction in his death refers to him a men like him. Fanpop and others have the characters name as Bolan. 76.64.44.194 (talk) 00:46, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Africa a country?

Just wanted to point this out, there's a table toward the bottom that lists Africa as a country. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.19.156.81 (talk) 20:20, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Changed column header to "Country or region". --Chaswmsday (talk) 12:32, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Whole section not notable. See television articles rated "GA" (Good Article) for examples of what is considered notable. The Television project style guide gives advice on what would be appropriate to include in Broadcast section. -- 109.77.3.132 (talk) 16:57, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Quoting from the lead section of WP:NOTABLE, "These notability guidelines only outline how suitable a topic is for its own article or list. They do not limit the content of an article or list." Emphasis copied from the guideline. Whether or not the recently removed "International distribution" section conformed to the guidelines at MOS:TV#Broadcast is another question. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 18:34, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm all for page trims and to add my input: (from the above pages) "Apart from the channel of origin for the series, editors are encouraged to instead detail English-speaking countries that the series appears through prose form. Special mentions can be used where a show does something noteworthy for a country/international channel, and are best addressed in the appropriate sections." The former is what needed to be done, rather than complete removal, which was not reached by consensus, by the way. — Wyliepedia 03:21, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Good Articles 30 Rock, Family Guy and Futurama contain international broadcasts in table or near-table format, and a number of other Good Articles contain them in prose. The entire section Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Television#Broadcast was added after a thinly-participated discussion, dominated by two or three editors, repeating the spurious and oft-cited claim within this Project that choosing to include some type of article content is just like a TV Guide. Per Good Articles, I'm boldly restoring the international broadcasts here. --Chaswmsday (talk) 19:23, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Restored but not improved. I wont be WP:BOLD and remove the entire table of barely verified not notable junk but I will remove the items that still have not been referenced and have not been shown that they have any relevance to English language Wikipedia. If I didn't think the whole section was a waste of effort and I was an editor trying to improve it I might try to find more sources and present it as prose but the complete lack of any improvement beyond reverting my delete suggests no one else cares about this section either. -- 147.252.95.67 (talk) 10:39, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Filming location?

The Filming Location was done on the Tsuu T'ina First Nation.. I've seen them filming it there, so can someone please put the filming location on there? Archchinook (talk) 05:43, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

I know the first season was filmed there. I listed it for the Pilot article. Haven't seen any articles about it being there for season 2. I put it here at the main page though and changed the header for easy navigation. — Wyliepedia 12:43, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Your edit that the exterior filming was done in Calgary is not really true. The Calgary Sun article uses "in Calgary" in the sense that it is near the city and not around Medicine Hat, Lethbridge, or Edmonton. There is absolutely no place within the city to construct such an elaborate set let alone ensure no pollution of the vistas with contemporary constructions. The reserve is beside the city but the reserve is not actually a part of the city. And so long as any north-east facing shots do not include too far above the ground the skyscrapers of downtown Calgary won't be in-frame. Dailies, audio production, etc. are done in the city but not exterior filming. Even Fort Calgary is too surrounded by contemporary society to be used for filming anything of show set in the prairies of the 1860s. Pretty much everywhere it is mentioned Wikipedia gives the impression Calgary is nowhere near the reserve and that exterior filming was done in the city itself. What city is close to you? Detroit? Chicago? London? Dallas? Salt Lake? Berlin? Newark? Vancouver? Tokyo? San Diego? Manchester? Atlanta? Would you be able to film exteriors of an historical show set in the prairies in any of those cities? No. Maybe close to some of them but not actually in any of those cities. You have to look at the context of the reference and maybe not take it so literally because in this case to take it literally is to be wrong. Combat Hospital was filmed in Toronto, interiors and exteriors, and they spent a fortune on CG to create the vistas. Hell On Wheels is filmed where they don't have to do that. They can film on sets in the studio near the airport (which is in the city) and then drive across the city to the reserve to film the outside shots where the backdrop naturally exists and the railroad and tent village are built.
Maybe i am the only one who really cares this much about the language and implications but pretending nothing is wrong with it seemed wrong. delirious & lost ☯ ^~hugs~ 11:58, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Feel free to change the wording. Wiki is a free world, last I checked. — Wyliepedia 01:07, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Lillian "Lily" Bell

Character's name is Lillian Bell, per check Durant wrote to her (assuming he was correct). Nothing official, just OR from watching season 2 finale. --Chaswmsday (talk) 12:13, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

I think you're allowed to cite the show itself for details like that, and it isn't considered OR. But I could be wrong. -- Goueznou, 70.107.238.239 (talk) 18:03, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Series character page is "Lily"[1]. Thanks. — Wyliepedia 01:09, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Any reason for the decline in quality ?

Was there any economic reason for the decline in quality in the 9th ep of season 2, the Indian retaliation from trespassing on their lands, the combat is very badly filmed, cut and mounted... 79.168.0.22 (talk) 04:30, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

This is about the series article, not the proper place to ask such questions. If someone wishes to pursue the budget for the series or episode, they can add that. I have heard that the series creators wished to do more with the show, but couldn't for the small budget. You will see varying degrees of production in most series, depends on the material at hand. — Wyliepedia 01:14, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Tech notes locomotive and track

Could someone find and add referenced info about the railroad equipment shown? It didn't really look much like an actual operating steam locomotive (the puffs of steam from the cylinders were just wrong somehow).. Is it from some railroad museum, what manufacturer and date and style (4-4-0?) is the loco? Vintage or modern fake? Is the track standard or narrow gauge? Do they use computer graphics or or model railroads in some scenes, or all real locomotives ? This series should get coverage in some trainspotter magazines, so refs might exist. Edison (talk) 02:52, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Here's a video from the first episode at AMC's home page. Good luck getting a section out of it. [2] — Wyliepedia 01:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

International distribution

This section is outdated, has incorrect information (the show was on SoHo in New Zealand instead of Sky), and the premiere dates are not cited. Since the hide tags does more damage than having it shown, I'm keeping it public for now as we discuss what to do with the section. If we can't get it up to date with proper references I nominate the section be removed. Encmetalhead (talk) 14:37, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

I added an "outdated section" tag. Hopefully, this will draw people's attention. If we delete it, someone may just come behind and restore it. — Wyliepedia 14:52, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

The whole section could be deleted for not being notable but since it isn't adequately verified (with up to date verification) it should be deleted already. -- 109.79.79.53 (talk) 03:44, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

I removed the table but left Australia and Ireland, the only two I could find that even airs it now. — Wyliepedia 04:14, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Fort Smith

The link to Fort Smith, NT, Canada is wrong. Someone simply linked it because a page existed for 'Fort Smith'. According to google Fort Smith, NT, Canda is 2000 miles north of Cheyenne. [3]

It's clear from the series that 'Fort Smith' was a fictitious Mormon settlement within a few days ride of Cheyenne. The series also implies that 'Fort Smith' was named after Joseph Smith, whereas the linked article has nothing to do with Mormons and Fort Smith, NT, Canada was named after a Canadian businessman named Donald Smith. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:5CC:C702:97A0:D57F:47F0:E837:4FB9 (talk) 16:46, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the catch. I unlinked it and added "fictional" to it. Yes, it's most likely a nod to Joseph Smith. Early in Season 3, Cullen suggests the Hatches move to it, if the railroad can't build around their farm, then later The Swede makes himself a bishop and goes there. — Wyliepedia 01:08, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

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What happened to the trains after filming?

Did they get dismantled our used in other shows? 2600:8804:1900:CB0:C82C:E077:D853:8F67 (talk) 11:11, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Connections to Seraphim Falls

I'm surprised not to see any mention of the obvious connection between Hell on Wheels and the 2006 film Seraphim Falls. David Von Ancken wrote and directed for both. The back stories behind both main characters are nearly identical except that in the film, he is a former Union soldier. I haven't searched extensively for sources on this matter yet but I'm watching the film now and have seen the entire series as well several times. The similarities are so blatantly obvious there has to be some kind of RS out there somewhere. It didn't hit me until the protagonist arrived at a rail camp that was obviously Hell on Wheels, and the preacher is not only the exact same character but also the very same actor. There's got to be something somewhere out there that reliably makes this connection between the film and the series. 2601:18C:4300:84E0:69B4:A0FF:9366:ABEE (talk) 03:49, 30 August 2023 (UTC)