Talk:Ibadi Islam

Untitled

I believe that Ibadhi/Ibadi is a better title for this page.

---

Qunut does not mean cursing during prayer. Qunut is a supplication while standing in prayer. by BB

Ibadhi/Ibadi

Ibadhi already redirects here, and the transliteration is confusing. "dh" is often used for the voiced fricative dhaal ذ and is in IPA [ð] , but Ibadi is spelled with an emphatic daad ض which is IPA [dˁ]. Pardon the horrible formatting and rough transliteration that I'm using. I just know that before I learned the Arabic alphabet I saw Ibadi spelled Ibadhi and thought that the end was pronounced like "these" without the /z/ sound. MikeBryan 07:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

2nd part of Sunni-Ibadi difference

The notion that MOST sunnis believe that people in Hell will get out is not true. Sunnis believe that those sinner muslims who go into hell will get out after a fixed time. Kuffar on the other hand will not. That part has to change. --Suleyman Habeeb 17:39, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

As it stands now it says that sunnis believe this, while sunnis believe the opposite. My guess is that the last line refers to shiites, but since I know nothing about this, I will not change it.--Klausok 18:15, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Read it again more carefully. Slacker 05:57, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I read it carefully and I see a complete contradiction:

Whosoever enters the Hellfire, will live therein forever. This is contrary to the Sunni belief that those Muslims who enter the Hellfire will live therein for a fixed amount of time, to purify them of their shortcomings, after which they will enter Paradise. Sunnis also believe that unbelievers will remain in Hell forever.

"Sunni belief", "Sunnis also believe"? I wish someone who knows about the subject would correct this error. Islamic_eschatology#Afterlife and Hell#Islam offer no help. --Ben Best 00:14, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

It's not a contradiction. The first sentence states the Ibadi belief. The next sentences contrast this with the Sunni belief, which distinguishes between Muslim sinners on the one hand and unbelievers on the other. Muslim sinners will eventually get out of hell, unbelievers will not. No contradiction, though perhaps it could be phrased more clearly. Paul Willocx (talk) 15:22, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Since the purpose of a section regarding doctrinal differences in Ibadism does not require exhaustive clarification of the Sunni position, and because a Muslim by definition does not reject monotheism, the second sentence should be sufficient for contrast, which is why I removed the third. Citations are still required for the vast majority of the article's content anyway. TheNuszAbides (talk) 04:39, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

The Quran states clearly that: "whoever has believe of the size of an atom in his heart in Allah, will get out of hell". This is referring to the people who already reside in hell, thuss making it clear that whoever enters hell will get out eventually IF he ever in his life believed in Allah. This is Allah's mercy. As a suni i believe this. This means that whoever who didnt believe in Allah will not get out of hell. And in the hadith of the prophet muhammed there is a man who got out of hell and asked the prophet muhammed why there were so many women in hell. This is also prove that a person can get out of hell after he enters it. On the other hand, I do not agree with ibadi that the Quran was created by man. To even say this is blasphemy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.248.187.200 (talk) 07:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

You misunderstand. The Ibadis, like the Shi'ites, Jahmites and Mu'tazilites, believe that the Qur'an was created, but by Allah, not by man. The question is whether the Qur'an had always existed (with the famous idea of the Qur'an being written on some plate floating in heaven, though that can of course be interpreted allegorically), and was then revealed to Muhammad (the Sunni belief), or whether the Qur'an was created by Allah at a certain point in time and then revealed to him (the Mu'tazilite/Shi'ite/Jahmite/Ibadi belief). The Mu'tazilites argued that only Allah himself could be eternal, and if one claimed the Qur'an was eternal as well, then that was some kind of shirk, as you had two eternal things instead of Allah alone. So you don't have to agree with it, but it's not quite as blasphemic as you thought. Paul Willocx (talk) 15:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Minor Edit

A previous edit changed "the Prophet Muhammad" to "the Muhammad" so I dropped the "the". I also changed the translation of bid'a from "innuendo" to "innovation". Straight out of the Hippocrene Standard Dictionary Arabic-English English-Arabic.

Demographics

What are the approximate numbers of Ibadi Muslims? The section for Muslim adherents for the "world religions" page needs to be fixed a little, esp. the part for Muslims. And this would help. Le Anh-Huy 04:16, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there are any official numbers because countries such as Oman dislike publishing census figures that specify sectarian groups. Most estimates put them at 75% of Oman's population, so something like 2 and a half million (that's not counting the small communities in North Africa). -- Slacker 17:31, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

The localization

the Mozabite Valley north of Iran and Azerbaijan

appears incorrect, since it links to the southern Algerian M'zab valley. -- 94.79.169.144 (talk) 03:31, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Kharijites

I was just speaking with my friend, who is Ibadi from Oman, and he claims '(03:04:27 PM) Ulquiorra..: scholers belive tht ibadi's were a decent from the so called "kharijite" who r defined in the definition given above (03:05:46 PM) Ulquiorra..: however... its not technecly not correct.. kharijites were found in sounth of soudi arabia.. (03:07:04 PM) Ulquiorra..: but they no longer excsist.. so how and y would they cm 2 oman? however ibadi is different.. since the scholers couldn't link them 2 any of sunni or shitte they decided ahaaaaa... kharijite.. which is bullshit,' and the statement in the article about this is unverified so I thought I would make a note of it here until it's settled. Until then I will put a citation needed link on the article. 98.31.4.211 (talk) 20:13, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Voodoo

From the first paragraph: "Some Argentine Muslims consider Ibadi Islam a direct offshoot of Voodoo religious rites. [1]" This seems improbable; and even if they do think that, they can't possibly be right, so the statement does not belong in the introduction to the article. Moreover, the source cited makes no mention of either Argentina or voodoo. I have deleted the sentence. Maproom (talk) 10:12, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Article formatting

This article doesn't follow standard wiki formatting. That should be fixed sometime. as well, kharijite history should be in Kharijites, i would think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.23.58.46 (talk) 16:28, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Salafi which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 07:14, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Salafi Movement which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 19:32, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Any evidence of such a discussion appears to have been removed from the Talk:Salafi Movement page; should this (and the previous entry) remain? They were by far the most recent addition to this page for the better part of a year... TheNuszAbides (talk) 04:42, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

created, Word of God

hhat is the import of this sentence? "The Quran was created by God at a certain point in time. Sunnīs hold the Quran to be the word of God...." Doesn't imply a difference to me. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 00:12, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

I am ibadhi from oman and we do not say that. I have a book about ibadhism (too bad it is in Arabic) and it denies that claim. please add sources to that paragraph. Grandia01 (talk) 19:53, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

@Grandia01: that's fascinating, perhaps you could help out more. The claim you're referring to has no source. While I am no expert, one thing I do know is that frequently Sunnis and Shias (I'm Sunni but I have to be honest) will often repeat things about Ibadis without ever reading Ibadi books to see if the stuff is true. Perhaps this is one of those things. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:24, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

@MezzoMezzo: dear mezzomezzo, thank you for your kind understanding and for being open-minded. I will try my best to find sources in English that debunk this myth. and let me share some other information about it with you (too bad it is not in English but only in Arabic): many people do not know much about ibadhism and consider it to be a "heretical" sect when it is not different than any sunni sect. in regards to Shiism, it is somewhat similar to it too with the exceptions that 1) ibadhis do not worship Ahl Al-Aayt and 2) do not consider most sahabas to be wrong, but only a few of them, only the ones who were among the "transgressing group" that prophet Muhammad -peace be upon him- himself vilified who killed Ammar Bin Yasir and described as the "wretched and licentious" [1][2][3] (قال النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - : ما لهم وما لعمار  ! يدعوهم إلى الجنة ويدعونه إلى النار ، وذلك دأب الأشقياء الفجار)

the sources here about ibadhism are outdated also, many jurisprudences in it have been changed and "amended" in the last 10 years and the sources mentioned in this article do not mention them appropriately.

thank you again, and as I said, I will try my best to find sources in English that support these claims, Allah willing. Grandia01 (talk) 07:25, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

@Grandia01: With regards to the Arabic book that you own that opposes the idea that Ibadhis believe in a created Qur'an, can you write the name of this book, its author, its publisher, publication date, publ. location, the page numbers in this book where this is stated and the ISBN if possible? As it's in Arabic, then you can choose to give these in Arabic if you wish. Thanks, happy editing, ParthikS8 (talk) 18:51, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi @ParthikS8:, does this answer your question?

https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%86%D8%A9_%D8%AE%D9%84%D9%82_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%B1%D8%A2%D9%86#cite_note-8 Grandia01 (talk) 06:36, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Apostates and proselytizing

I want to know how the Ibadi position on apostates and proselytizing compares with other sects of Islam. Since it is not mentioned, do I assume it is the same? (Execution for both?) StuartGathman (talk) 16:08, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Map: "Ibadi majority countries are coloured in blue"

I don't see any blue on this map image. Am I going color-blind? Also the legend, consisting of three different color scales, isn't labeled so it isn't clear what the map is depicting. --RDavi404 (talk) 15:53, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

@Rdavi404: it's difficult to see, but Oman is colored a sort of really dark blue color that's almost purple, which makes it look very similar to the color of Iran (which is majority Shiite). A solution might be to just choose another color, though you may be the first person to ever bring this update and both Ibadism and Oman are sort of forgotten topics on here. MezzoMezzo (talk)

I agree with RDavi404...I thought I was going colour-blind too, when I read this article. I can see it now, it is very dark blue (virtually black). A change of colour (or caption) would help the reader. SethWhales ^talk 16:15, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

formatting

To editor John Mylonelis: Please stop adding redundant links, needless html formatting, and WP:NPOV violations. If you have questions about what editing is acceptable, please ask. Chris Troutman (talk) 11:53, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

To editor Chris troutman: Thank you for the correction, I dont know why but I couldn't take off some mentioned terms with bold letters. Because I am new member in wikipedia community I would like to inform me about the acceptable editing. Thank you, John.

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Islamic branches.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:36, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Rename to Ibadi?

See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Islam#Inconsistency_in_the_naming_of_madhhab_articles for rationale and post your comments there. Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 17:02, 4 December 2020 (UTC)