Talk:Jabalia

Names

The list of 111 names could be ommited, and instead we write that Al-Mezan Center for Human Rights is reporting of 111 Palestinian killed. MathKnight 18:26, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

To Alberuni: Namial list is, well, a list of names. MathKnight 21:39, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Is that the English language - or Hebrew? Alberuni 02:43, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

English. Namial --> name-al. MathKnight 10:36, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Maybe I'm missing something. I'll assume it's just an ESL typo. Alberuni 03:01, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Palestinian miltants are not the same as Palestinians

Jayjg, please try to be more specific, not less specific, in your edits and try not to blur the boundaries between civilian and militant to justify Israeli aggression against civilian Palestinian refugees. Alberuni 02:42, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I'm trying to avoid POV labels that lead to edit wars, not any of the nonsensical motives you've attributed to me. Identifying the specific groups involved is an even better way of doing this. Jayjg 02:52, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The specific groups are militants or Hamas, if identified. Why do you label militant acts as being committed generically by "Palestinians"? Should we label IDF acts as being committed by "the Jews"? Alberuni 02:56, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Just trying to avoid POV labels; if you have better wording that does the same, I'd support it. Jayjg 03:12, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

"militant" is not a specific group. Specific groups are Hamas, Islamic Jihad, al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, Popular Resistance Committees, Tanzim, Abu-Reish Brigades, PFLP, DFLP etc. MathKnight 12:25, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You are using POV labels of "terrorist" without attributing them to the Israeli government. Please stop your continuous reverts until this issue has been resolved. Alberuni 03:34, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Actually, you've been doing continuous reverts of "terrorist" to "militants". Please stop until the issue has been resolved. Jayjg 03:36, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The militant palistinian groups may be called terrorists because they mainly target civilians while the IDF may not be called terrorist because it targets militants but as with all military operations, cilivilians might get caught in the crossfire, but they are not the main targets. Passw0rd

Seems to me like we need a specific List of Palestinian militant groups page, from which we can then use to specifically identify them apart from "normal" Palestinians and use as a page to display the various points of view about them. Oberiko 18:19, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Citation

When you are adding an event to the time line please cite a news source such as CNN, BBC etc. Al-Mazen can't qualify since it do not tells rather the dead was combatant or not. MathKnight 10:50, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The events are reported and sourced. It doesn't matter whether the casualty is militant or civilian or Israeli. The casualties are never described as civilians. It's all NPOV. Alberuni 02:58, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It matters very much whether the casualty is armed or unarmed, militant or civilian, terrorist or soldier. Deliberately and knowingly shooting those engaged in combat operations is permissible within the "rules of war". Deliberately and knowingly shooting civilians is not.

We're not in a position to judge the POV reports of combat status of fatalities. "Israeli army claims the man they killed was a terrorist responsible for shooting an Israeli motorist in 1996; the soldiers suspected that the girl's book bag was a bomb, making her a legitimate target; the terrorist was hiding in an apartment building so 19 people were justifiably killed when an Israeli missile, manufactured in the United States and paid for by US taxpayers was fired from a helicopter to kill the "terrorist", Israeli army reported receiving mortar rounds from the UNRWA school so they shot a girl in the chest in her classroom, unfortunate collateral damage but the Jews must defend themselves, too bad....." etc. We're just listing fatalities and casualties. Thanks.Alberuni 03:54, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

If that's the case, then leave out references to "children" as well, since we're not in a position to judge those POV reports either; just list fatalities and casualties. Jayjg 04:05, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

If you want to delete reference to "children," "child," "girl," "boy," etc. in all the reports, including the initial one of "Two children killed by a Qassam rocket in Sderot" then that's fine by me. The reader can decide for him/herself whether the victims are children by listing their ages. But wait! Perhaps we should not list ages either because we can't trust POV reports about the age of the victims either. Maybe we should just refer to the victims as male/female, Arab/Jew because those are the only categories in which we believe. But wait! We can't really even trust that either. It's possible that these were not humans at all. Maybe they were Palestinians and you know, "some people" dispute that Palestinians even exist. They may be just fake stories planted by liars and propagandists, like partisan human rights organizations. Maybe the terrorists and the IDF don't really exist at all and the pools of blood are just ketchup or special effects created by al Jazeera. Now we can all sleep soundly and not think about the mutilated children. Alberuni 20:34, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Lance6wins would you care to explain your deletions?

The material you are deleting is sourced. You are welcome to add to it. What is your justification for deleting it? Alberuni 02:59, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps you are referring to [1]. Please note that both attacks against Israelis and attacks against Arabs are marked as deleted in this diff. I do not know what happened there. Unreported edit conflict? Mulitple concurrent edits? I do not understand what happened. Thank you for pointing this out. Will fix. Lance6Wins 03:11, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Good job. Alberuni 03:18, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Moving the operation

Seems like the Israeli operation is taking most of the page. I propose to move it to its own article and have a summary with iLink here. Oberiko 18:20, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

That was my thought looking at it: Operation Days of Penitance looks like the obvious title. --Henrygb 18:40, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I agree. Operation Days of Penitence will be the title (the spelling was copied from English press). Any objections? MathKnight 20:55, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Alright, the article is moved. Oberiko 14:53, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Its a city

Jabalia is a small city in northern gaza strip we cant say that Jabalia is a refugee camp i think the article must be moved to Jabalia camp. --Marquez 09:05, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

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