Talk:Joakim Noah

Pronunciation

There seems to be a surprising amount of confusion over how to pronounce this young man's name. I've heard at least one radio announcer say /'dʒəʊkəm/ (AmE: JOE-kim). USAToday says it's "pronounced JO-a-kim, says his mother, though many classmates say JO-keem". Now, JO-a-kim probably means /'dʒəʊəkɪm/ and JO-keem probably means /'dʒəʊˌkim/ although /i/ sounds kind of weird in an not-so-stressed syllable in American English. Some other website claims that its a Swedish name and should be "Yo-a-keem" (i.e. /'jəʊəˌkim/ or /ˌjəʊə'kim/) in Swedish, but that some UF-related publications list or have listed it as "Jo-a-kim", but that the current (March 30?) press guide has it as "Jo-kim" (presumably the same /'dʒəʊkəm/ that I've heard). So, we should come up with a good source before we state one way or the other in the article. - Nat Krause^(Talk!) 00:21, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

It's a french name (from Middel-East origin imho) and you have to pronounce "Jo-a-kim" but I have no idea of how to write it in the phonetical alphabet.Poppypetty 09:37, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Most UF fans and students, and the Gator Radio Network announcers pronounce his name "Jo-kim" but "Jo-a-kim" seems to also be acceptable. Although he is a junior, he is the age of a senior, which gives him an advantage on the competition.

A french name from the Middle East, is it? Well, it would make sense for it to be Swedish, since his mother is Swedish. I don't know. Considering the controversy, I think we should have a reputable and authoritative source for the pronunciation before we proclaim what it is. In my opinion, the deciding factors in what your name really is are (from most to least important): 1) what you say your name is; 2) what most people call you; 3) what your mom calls you. So far, the best source we have is the USA Today profile, but that only goes so far as reporting on what his mother calls him, and, moreover, it's not impossible that it's wrong. - Nat Krause^(Talk!) 19:42, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

The only pronounciation that would be correct is the official one issued by the University of Florida, since i'm sure they consulted Noah when they documented this. According to the Official Website of the Florida Gators, Gatorzone.com, the pronounciation is: JO-kim. -- Abid Ahmed 19:29, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

• You guys are funny. Joakim is a typical name in Scandinavia, particularly Sweden. Gee, I wonder if that has anything to do with his mum being Swedish. hmm. by the way: [Nordicnames]

Father

I won't edit, because it's frustrating when it's edited right back, but Joakim Noah is NOT the son of Yannick Noah, I assumed the same thing. His father is a reggae artists, he's mixed, not 'quadroon'. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.141.94.61 (talk • contribs) 22 May 2006.

A quick google search, and you will find quite a few articles saying his father is Yannick Noah. --Ezeu 23:37, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

they showed on espn during the ncaa final four (and i actually bumped into at a home game) joakim's father. Yannick Noah IS Joakim's father. he IS a former tennis star and now is pursuing a career in reggae. there are some other famous fathers on the current 2006 ncaa team. JMW814 05:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Descent

How is he of hispanic descent? As far as I know, He can only be a mix of African and Caucasian (French/Swedish) descent. -- Abid Ahmed 01:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I reverted this nonsense.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 01:45, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Hispanic would be erroneous due to his father's francophonic status, and his mother's Swedish lineage. However, he wouldn't look out of place in Venezuela or the Spanish Caribbean. The term "Hispanic" refers to an ethnic group and not a racial demographic. Hispanics are, Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid, as well as a mix of the three groups. Noah's father is not African, he is french. Yannick is black African descended on his father's side (Cameroonian), while his mother is white (French). Joakim is an authentic quadroon. Whether you like it or not, he is genetically Caucasoid.

By the way, African doesn't refer to any specific racial order. I don't think I need to remind people what the Kabylies and Riffians consider themselves, despite their fair-skin.

Notability

I am not a veteran editor and I don't have specific sources to use, but I have an opinion about the notability tag. I don't see why he doesn't fit into the category of biographies. He helped carry the gators to the championship last year and is doing the same this year. He is a powerful player in college basketball, which is a huge industry. Why wouldn't articles on division-one college basketball players be notable? 141.217.231.62 07:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Keep-Honestly, I'm shocked someone would consider him not worthy on a wikipedia entry. He is one of the most high profile college basketball players today, and widely considered a top prospect for the NBA MaroonFrog 18:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

• I agree as well - simply because someone is unfamiliar with the article or subject matter does not render it unimportant.

French-American

Isn't this a bit debatable? He was born in America, with a French-national father and a Swedish-national mother. Ethnically he is 50% Swedish (from his mum) and 25% French/25% Camaroonian (from his pops). So how do we come up with French-American? Does he have any sort of dual/triple nationality? I'd suggest saying simply "American" and his ethnicity is detailed in the following paragraph. regards.

==> What's the relationship between ethnicity and nationality? According to the International Herald Tribune, he has triple nationality Swedish, US, France. And they say he plans to play for France in international basketball competitions, which requires to be French. http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/30/sports/arena.php ~~rhadium~~

August 2007

On August 9, 2007, Noah received the paperwork officially making him a French citizen, making him eligible to play for France in international competitions. [1]

Yes there's a source that provides that he as French citizen, therefore he is of more than one Nationality. PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 04:32, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Poppypetty

French chauvinism raises its ugly head? I put the names of the countries in alphabetical order and also added a dubious tag to the claim of him being French-American. Poppypetty came and simply reverted everything. I mean, keep the national insecurities to oneself please! This is an encyclopedia...

As you can see here, this IP is looking for conflicts. Poppypetty 13:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Typical French, avoiding the real topic at hand.

Nationality

I'm a french guy who's been studying law for 3 (long) years and I know one thing for sure : a person who has french citizenship can have only ONE other nationality. As aresult, if Joakim Noah has french nationality, he can't play for Sweden, USA or Cameroon but only for one of them.

Moreover, the french version of this articles states clearly that he has american and swedish citizenship, so how he could play for France? (As a frenchy, I wish he could but it doesn't seem possible to me).

Finnaly, is it re that he spokes swahili fluently? I mean, Swahili is an eastafrican language whereas Cameroon is a west african country.

Therefore, I think that the last section of this article should be rewritten but, honestly, I don't know enough about him to do that.

I'm pretty sure if you are born in the U.S., you automatically get U.S. citizenship in addition to and regardless of whatever else you have. That is the main reason pregnant women swim the Rio Grande into Texas, so that their babies will be born in the U.S.A. So I do not doubt that Joakim Noah is also a U.S. citizen, but France may have their own reasons for not recognizing his "third citizenship". (edited: see Birthright citizenship in the United States of America). --fullcourt 20:22, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Will somebody please explain tome how his nationality is French?

First this all goes back to how you define nationality. Neither his mother or father was born in America - His father was born in France, while his mother was born in Sweden. On the other hand, he was born and raised in the US. The only thing that really decides the issue in my opinion is that he choose to play for the French national team, as opposed to team USA. Then again, this seems subjective - see the nationality article, it gues into detail about the American and international definition about the word. Until this issue is resolved, I suggest leaving it out for now. --►ShadowJester07  21:55, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Noah trained with the French national team in 2009 but withdrew for fitness reasons. You can read it here (in French): http://basket.blog.lemonde.fr/2009/10/06/joakim-noah-jaurais-plus-progresse-en-restant-avec-lequipe-de-france/ or see him in the French shirt next to Tony Parker here: http://www.sport24.com/basket-nba/equipe-de-france/actualites/avec-le-bleu-de-travail-281874/ Clearly he is French. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.155.142.42 (talk) 17:27, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Nationality - June 2015

Should the "Nationality" part of the infobox be filled with American/Swedish/French? Arbor to SJ (talk) 20:03, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Of course. There is a lot of ridiculous debate on wikipedia over nationality/citizenship. For some reason, people feel it's perfectly alright to ignore listing a person's nationality/citizenship just because of their own perception (of how they became popular). It's an incredibly weak argument. Noah, by law, is a national/citizen of three independent nations: United States, France, Sweden. By the nationality law of each of those countries, he has full membership in the national and political community. He therefore has the right to hold a passport, receive protection, vote in elections, live, and work in any of those three nations. So, clearly, being that that's the case, all three should be listed and the lead sentence should note it. Nationality/citizenship is a legal matter. If Noah enters any of his three countries, they're not going to say, "Well, we don't perceive him as one of us." Regardless of how he's perceived, they recognize him and all of his rights. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.188.6.95 (talk) 22:50, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Citizenship Matters

The US and French systems of "citizenship by birth" are very similar, so this is an easy one to explain. Basically, there are 2 ways one can acquire the US or the French citizenship "at birth". Either at least one of your parents is American or French (regardless of where you were born). Or you were on US or French territory (regardless of your parents citizenship). This is called "jus soli" ("right of soil" in Latin). The US and French systems differ radically from the UK or German systems, for examples, which favor the bloodline. Due to "uncontrollable migratory movements", the jus soli has slightly been changed both in the US and in France in recent years. If a baby was born in France, he is now given the right to "place a bid" on his French citizenship. At the age of 16, he will have to choose whether or not to take on the French citizenship. I believe a similar law applies in the US, but I am not privy of the details. If your parents are American (or French) citizens, you may claim US (or French) citizenship at any time in your life, regardless of the citizenship you have been using since you were born. It is not totally automatic, though. But it's a pretty simple formality. Another important point. Some countries allow its citizens to have "multiple citizenships" (e.g. UK, Canada, Ireland, Israel). A few others acknowledge only a unique citizenship. America and France both belong to the latter category. This is a bit tricky, because it does NOT mean that you cannot have both the US and Whatever citizenships at the same time. It only means the US government will only acknowledge your US citizenship. And similarly, if you have a dual French/Whatever citizenship, the French government will only acknowledge your French citizenship.

I'll give you one good example... me. My mother is a US citizen (born and raised in Michigan, to Michigander parents, etc...). My father is a French citizen (born and raised in Brittany, to Breton parents, etc...). I was born in Switzerland. Because Switzerland does not have the "jus soli", as a baby, I could not automatically receive the Swiss citizenship. France is closer to Switzerland than the US, so my first citizenship was French. Officially, I was thus born a French citizen. Soon after I was born, my mother petitioned for me to become a US citizen too. Officially, I became at US citizen at the tender age of 9 weeks. I am 31 years old now. I hold a US passport and a French passport. When I am in the US, I am labeled by the US administration as a US citizen. And likewise, when I am in France, the French administration recognizes me as a French citizen. Neither the US nor the French give a hoot about my second citizenship. They only acknowledge one. It's a matter of patriotism, I guess. Or maybe just to simplify administrational issues. I do vote both in the US (Democrats) and in France (Republicans). When I travel outside of the US and France, I can either present my American or my French passport. Both are legal and accepted. In fact, I do use both...

Matters complicate for my kids. My wife has the dual Italian/Spanish citizenship. Realistically, our kids can pretend to 4 citizenships... We have twins, they're just under 1 year old. We haven't decided yet... Right now, we live in Switzerland. One thing is for sure: we intend for our boys to be fluent in English, French, Italian, Spanish, and German (the language spoken in Zürich) by the age of 10. Presumably, they still will have some space left in their brains to cram another couple of languages!

Anyhow... All this to say : Noah could very well have 3 passports and 3 citizenships (US, French, Swedish).

This is the best explanation of the situation I've seen. My daughter is in the same situation (FR/US), and so would I if I got US citizenship. This is a bit OT, but I believe the USA recognizes dual citizenship for only 2 countries, Ireland and Israel.

As for Noah, I have a hard time seeing him as French. He's never lived there, but then, I don't know him and he could very well have a very strong attachment to it: He did publicly say he had always dreamed of playing for the French National Team, and given his Dad, that doesn't surprise me at all. As for this speaking fluent French, he does (whatever fluency means). His voice uncannily sounds like his dad's.

I would argue that because he plays for the French National Team, it makes him a French basketball player (meaning as far as basketball is concerned, he's French). To draw a parallel with soccer, Gonzalo Higuain (who grew up in France, with an Argentine father who was naturalized French) is an Argentine soccer player because he chose to play for Argentina. Contrary to David Trezeguet, who was born in France (from an Argentine father of French origins), but grew up in Argentina, only to return in France at 17. Trezeguet has told the story of being the only one rooting for France when watching games with his family in Argentina, and how he wanted to play for France. Noah might be the same.

However, I would say it is obvious to me that Tony Parker (born and raised in France of an American father and a Dutch mother, and who played in France) is far more French. Look at his accent in English for one thing. Ograndjean (talk) 16:34, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Joakim Noah actually has lived in France - for 10 years (from the age of three to 13), so it may not be that surprising that he feels an attachment to that country (or that he speaks fluently). Funnyhat (talk) 07:23, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

WP:MOSBIO states about nationality "In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national (according to each nationality law of the countries), or was a citizen when the person became notable." So I'm leaning towards labeling him American. Andrewlp1991 (talk) 19:52, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

There is a lot of ridiculous debate on wikipedia over nationality/citizenship. For some reason, people feel it's perfectly alright to ignore listing a person's nationality/citizenship just because of their own perception (of how they became popular). It's an incredibly weak argument. Noah, by law, is a national/citizen of three independent nations: United States, France, Sweden. By the nationality law of each of those countries, he has full membership in the national and political community. He therefore has the right to hold a passport, receive protection, vote in elections, live, and work in any of those three nations. So, clearly, being that that's the case, all three should be listed and the lead sentence should note it. Nationality/citizenship is a legal matter. If Noah enters any of his three countries, they're not going to say, "Well, we don't perceive him as one of us." Regardless of how he's perceived, they recognize him and all of his rights. Therefore, due to his nationalities/citizenships, he should be listed as all three. It's very disrespectful not to do so, especially since he's clearly stated that he's a citizen of all three nations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.188.6.95 (talk) 22:52, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 04:26, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 14:32, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

What kind of picture is that for Noah? at lEAST get him on the court —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.6.228.97 (talk) 21:52, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Unless you want to dish out some big bucks to get an image from AP or Getty, I suggest sticking with a free image. --ShadowJester07 ► Talk 22:36, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Arrest

Do we really need to mention that Noah was arrested? He paid a fine, no jail time. To someone looking up information about him, do they really need to know that he was arrested one time? Hatmatbbat10Talk to me 01:39, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

See WP:NNC; Content may be added to articles as long as it can be verified by reliable sources, and fairly represents both parties. Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly - the ill deeds along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly. The rest... is silence. ~ Hamlet --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  02:08, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I guess that section can stay then, thanks. Hatmatbbat10Talk to me 22:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I believe the arrest section should be removed: the link is not available anymore so there is not good source/evidence of those facts. (Full disclosure: I was looking forward for a reason to remove this paragraph, as I believe that it is totally irrelevant. I don't see anyone looking through all the records of people that have biographies on wiki to find out how many times they got fined for parking on the handicap spot.)--Bastilleday uky (talk) 00:52, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

The link used in the article (http://www.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/idUSN2925508720080529) works just fine for me. Personally I think it should stay, as I once returned to this article to read more about him after hearing about the arrest and for some clarification of the incident. That's just my two cents though. Best, Vincent Valentine 02:57, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Noah makes the All NBA team

We need to add that Noah made the 2011 NBA All Defensive Second Team

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/05/09/2010-11-all-defensive-teams/index.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Markxsterling (talk • contribs) 03:23, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 1 July 2016

Alienboi55 (talk) 02:47, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Joakim Noah plays for the New York Knicks

No, he doesn't. He is rumored to be signing with the Knicks. He can not do so until July 7 when the moratorium period ends. DaHuzyBru (talk) 04:59, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

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Opening Sentence

I've reverted the lede sentence back to removing any specific nationality like what it was for the longest time. Looking at older versions of the page throughout the years,[2][3][4][5] there was a consistent exclusion of his nationality because of the complicated circumstances of his life (including his birth, being raised in several different countries, triple citizenship and which country he represented internationally). A more recent edit back in 2019 confirms that reasoning.[6]

I have checked discussion from years ago and see that there was no clear consensus decided. I'm open for discussion again, but given the complicated circumstances of his life, I agree that removing any mention of his specific nationality in the lede is the best compromise. WP:ETHNICITY states that this is a solution for some pages. Look at Elon Musk for example. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 02:42, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Nationality

He is French-American 162.83.200.43 (talk) 10:45, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

See #Opening Sentence (above). —Bagumba (talk) 11:48, 27 August 2024 (UTC)