Talk:Kilkis

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For edit history see Talk:Kilkis Prefecture.

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Sorry, what is PROPAGANDA? I actually use today's Greek name of the town. Many of the towns in Bulgaria, Greece and Turkey have Bulgarian, Greek and Turkish names. Other thing - I have just mentioned the names of two Bulgarians born in Kilkis. -- 172.191.128.106 21:13, 12 Sep 2004

I agree - the fact that the town is known by more than one name clearly needs to be mentioned, not least in an historical context. I've expanded the article to provide that context. -- ChrisO 23:28, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Well I don't agree with what anon did to this article, from another point of view. Kukush is not just the "Bulgarian" name for the town, but it's called so in Slavic Macedonian and probably other Slavic languages as well. Some proposed etymology for this name, that I do not exactly endorse but I consider worth mentioning, suggests that it dates back to the era of early Slavic languages (Proto-South-Slavonic? Where's Crculver?). If anyone knows more about it, he/she should help clarify it.

Goce Delchev's origin, is it Bulgarian of Slavic Macedonian? Discussions with Macedonian Slavs made me thought they claim he's theirs. Etz Haim 18:51, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Who's that "famous entertainer" DAF? Not exactly as popular as Stefka Sabotinova, I guess. :) Anyway, the link points to a disambiguation page where he's not mentioned at all. I think I'll remove his link if someone doesn't fix it soon. Etz Haim 20:04, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Edits

I've made 3 edits: 1. I've added Macedonian, and Serbian, because Kukush is generally a South Slavic term, not an exclusively Bulgarian term. 2. 'the mostly Bulgarian inhabitants' was changed, into 'inhabitants' only - it is not necessary, nor correct to deliberately emphasise the 'bulgarity' of its slavophone inhabitants, on the basis that they were expelled to Bulgaria. 3. I've turned the 'bulgarian revolutionary' into an IMARO revolutionary - the nationality of GD's is controversial issue, and you can find a deeper insight into this subject in the article about Goce Delchev.

I hope these changes won't trigger nationalistic debates from either side. Best regards. --FlavrSavr 03:56, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

no so close

whoever wrote that article has no clue about the town of Kilkis.Read some history for god's sake! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.203.161.26 (talk) 03:20, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

My edits

1. I added the Bulgarian name immediately after the Greek because the town's population used to be Bulgarian. In the same manner there are Greek names in some Bulgarian towns. 2. The battle of Kilkis was not decisive for the Bulgarian loss, the main Bulgarian forces were fighting against the Serbs and when later the main Bulgarian army faced the Greeks, the Greek army was saved from utter destruction because of the peace treaty.

People from Strumica.

Of the people from Strumica the majority were Patriachists Christian and not "ethnic Greeks" as are being claimed.

• The "des Vilayets d'Adrianople, de Monastir et de Salonique 1873" Survey of the Male population of Strumica; 3,300 Muslims and 2,120 Bulgarians. („des Vilayets d'Adrianople, de Monastir et de Salonique 1873“ Macedonian Scientific Institue, Sofia, 1995, pages.186-187.)
• Vasil Kanchov's 1900 survey; 6,200 Bulgarian Christians, 3,100 Turks, 700 Jews and 160 Gypsys. Кънчов, Васил. „Македония. Етнография и статистика“. София, 1900, стр.159.
• The "La Macédoine et sa Population Chrétienne" Study conducted in 1905 found 4,400 Bulgarian Patriachists, 114 Bulgarian Protestants, 35 greeks and 18 Aromanians. (Christian population only). ( Brancoff, D.M. "La Macédoine et sa Population Chrétienne". Paris, 1905, р.106-107. ).

The christian population was not Greek at all! Please provide sources rather then misconceptions and stories. PMK1 (talk) 05:35, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Patriarch Neophytus VIII of Constantinople was Patriachist or Greek?Chrusts 07:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Το 1875 οι Στρωμνιτσιώτες (μεταξύ των οποίων και πολλοί σλαβόφωνοι) αποφάσισαν να αντισταθούν κατά των Βουλγάρων και συγκρότησαν γι’ αυτό το σκοπό πατριωτική ομάδα.

“Το Πάσχα του έτους 1875 συνελθόντες εις την οικίαν του Δ. Παπαδιονυσίου, οι, Νικόλαος Ε. Οικονομίδης, Κωστάκης Γραικού, Κων. Δημ. Μίσσιου, Γρηγ. Παπαδιονυσίου, Ι. Παπαδιονυσίου, Δημ. Αγγειοπλάστης, Γεώργ. Κόλλιου, Γεωργ. Μούλκας, Κων. Αμπράσης, Κων. Κωνσταντινίδης καί Παντελής Γουγούσης, αντιπροσωπεύοντες δε οι ανωτέρω καί τούς παρακάτω ειλικρινείς καί ενθέρμους πατριώτας Δημ. Καλινίκην, Παντελήν Πάκον, Εμ. Πώνην, Κων. Κολιούσκαν, Γ. Κολιούσκαν, Γρηγ. Ταμανίμην, Κύρον Τοπούζην, Γρηγ. Τράϊνον, Πρωτοπαππάν (παπά Νικόλαν), Γρηγ. Δανιήλ, Ιω. Ιόφτσου, Παντ. Σαμουλαδάν καί Γεώργ. Ντουλμπέρη, απεφάσισαν καί κατήρτισαν Πατριωτικήν ομάδα αντιστάσεως, προγραμματίσαντες συνάμα την ημέραν εκείνην σχέδιον αντάξιον γνησίων Ελλήνων ηρώων, εξέλεξαν δε αρχηγόν τόν Παντελήν Γουγούσην”. Κων. Βακαλόπουλου -Ιστορία τού Βορείου Ελληνισμού ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ. Θεσσαλονίκη, 1990.

Do you need translation?Chrusts 09:01, 27 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pyraechmes (talk • contribs)

Well of course! And explain to me why the majority of your famous "Northern Macedonians" and even these are not even of ethnic Greek descent. The majority spoke Macedonian Slavic or Aromanian as their first language. That just says a lot about these "Macedonians". PMK1 (talk) 14:01, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Main list: list of Macedonians (Greek)

In 1875 Stromnitsiotes (many slavic-speakers among them), decided to resist against the Bulgarians, and they stablished a patriotic team for this purpose. "The Easter of 1875, gathered at the house of Dimitrios Papadionyssiou: Nikolaos E. Economidis, Kostakis Graekou, Konstantinos Dimitriou Missiou, Grigorios Papadionyssiou, Ioannis Papadionyssiou, Dimitrios Angioplastis, Georgios Kolliou, Georgios Moulkas, Konstantinos Ambrassis, Konstantinos Konstantinidis and Pantelis Gougoussis, representing the below honest and votary patriotes: Dimitrios Kalinikis, Pantelis Pakos, Emmanouel Ponis, Konstantinos Koliouskas, Georgios Koliouskas, Grigorios Tamanidis, Kyros Topouzis, Grigorios Trainos, father-Nikolaos Protopappas, Grigorios Daniel, Ioannis Ioftsou, Pantelis Samoladas and Georgios Doulberis, decided and established Patriotic team of resistance, scheduling that day, counsel, coequal of original Greek Heroes. They chose for leader, Pantelis Gougoussis." From: a native Stromnitsiote of that era. "Konstantinos Vakalopoulos: History of Northern Hellenism - Macedonia. Thessaloniki, 1990"

Michael Astrapas and Eutychios, iconographers of Greek Orthodox icons: weren't slavophones. They were Greek speakers

Theodorus Gaza (c. 1400 – 1475), Renaissance humanist and translator of Aristotle: Greek speaker, Teacher of Greek language

Kallinikos Manios (1624 - 1665), founder of the first school in Veroia: Greek speaker Ioannis Kottounios (1572 - 1657), founder of the Greek museum Kottounian Hellinomouseio: Greek speaker

Grigorios Zalykis (1777-1820), Greek writer, founder of "Hellenoglosso Xenodochio" organization[5], a precursor of "Filiki Etaireia": Greek speaker

Yiannis Pharmakis (1772-1821) revolutionary of the Greek War of Independence: Greek/aromanian speaker

Emmanouel Pappas (1772-1821), prominent member of Filiki Etaireia, leader of the Greek War of Independence in Macedonia: Greek speaker

Konstantinos Christou, Kapetan Kottas, (1863-1905) revolutionary of the Macedonian Struggle: Slavic speaker

Alexis Zorbas (1867–1942) Protagonist of Nikos Kazantzakis's novel Zorba the Greek: Greek speaker

Evangelos Natsis (1876-1904), revolutionary of the Macedonian Struggle: Slavic/Greek speaker

Michael Sionidis (1870-1935), born in Grčište, now in the Republic of Macedonia, revolutionary of the Macedonian Struggle: Greek speaker

Georgios Giotas (1880-1911), revolutionary of the Macedonian Struggle: Slavic/Greek speaker

Armen Kouptsios (1880-1905), revolutionary of the Macedonian Struggle: Greek speaker

Stephanos Dragoumis, Prime Minister of Greece from 1909 to 1910: Greek speaker

Ion Dragoumis (1878-1920) Greek diplomat, writer and revolutionary of the Macedonian struggle: Greek speaker

Konstantinos Karamanlis, Prime Minister of Greece from 1955 to 1963 and from 1974 to 1980 President of Greece from 1980 to 1985 and from 1990 to 1995: Greek speaker

Kostas Karamanlis, the current Prime minister of Greece: Greek speaker

WHERE IS THE MAJORITY???

And something else: From an article of a native Macedonian, Magazine "Macedonian Life", February 1991:

"It is a mistake for everyone; especially on scope or Skop; to comfuse the mother tounge with national identity and try to drag people from their language, actually against their beliefs, their tradition, their heritage and their history. Double mistake. Because that attempt was also before, but the slavophone Macedonians, we found ourselves by the side of our heart; mother Greece. That time, walnuts fullfilled with gallows, the ovens fullfilled with alive humans, the squares of the villages and the gullies of the mountains fullfilled with dead slavophone Macedonians. Because they refused and denied to join the guerillas, and that's why they consisted the spine of the Greek Struggle for Macedonia, and its holly slaughtered offering of the sacrifice."

And Finally: Nice occupation you chose: "changing nationalities of dead men"Chrusts 15:08, 27 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pyraechmes (talk • contribs)

I was refering to the "Northern Macedonians" who are from Aromanian or Macedonian speaking backgrounds. Many of these recent articles you have created on famous personalities are paradoxically inaccurate and only reflect the POV. after the arbitration case they can be appropriately edited.

I was refering to all of these revoloutionaries from "Northern" and Aegean Macedonia. Of course people like Kallinikos Manios and Kostas Karamanlis did not speak slavic. You should remove the large amount of text and not clot up this discussion page. If you want to discuss further then use the talk page; that is what it is there for. PMK1 (talk) 04:29, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Destroyed church

I remove here the sentence: "The church of "Madonna of Kilkis" was completely destroyed by Uniates and members of Bulgarian Exarchate" The reason is that the source (in Bulgarian: T. Vlachov "History of Kilkis", Plovdiv (Philippoupolis) 1885 - without page number), which should support it, is false. I checked in all available reference books, but such Bulgarian book in the 19th century has not been issued. There isn't any information on such book in the most authoritative edition devoted to Bulgarian books in 1878 to 1944 - Български книги 1878-1944. Библиографски указател. т. 1 (А-В), София 1978. (Bulgarian Books 1878-1944. Bibliographical index. vol 1 (A-B), Sofia 1978.) The truth is that there was Bulgarian author named Touché Vlahov (1899-1981), who was born in Kukush (Kilkis) and wrote about the history of this city. However, his books have been published much later and their titles does not match exactly with that in the reference above. I tried to check in his book ("Kukush and its Historical past", Sofia 1969) the information about the alleged destruction of the church "Madonna of Kilkis" by Uniats and Ekzarhists, but I didn't find such data.--Males (talk) 13:40, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

languages on the name

Is there any reason why Macedonian Slavic language is mentioned in the name of Kilkis or someone just want to make ipression? Kilkis was named under Ottoman empire as Kilkis, Kilkic, Kalkis, or Kukus (by Bulgarians), until 1912. From 1912 to 1913, it was under Bulgarian control with the name: Kukus. From 1913 until now, it is in Greece with the name: Kilkis. In 1948, the new Macedonian Slavic language apeared. What is the relevance of a Greek town (previously Bulgarian and more previously Ottoman) with that language? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.67.153.147 (talk) 12:23, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Image of Kilkis after the 1913 battle

This is a very good and rare image of devastated Kilkis in 1913, I don't see why anywone would want to delete it. Please discuss before deleting again. The source is free so there is no property right violation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moesian (talk • contribs) 07:51, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

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