Talk:Manuel Fraga

"Don"

I believe the initial blurb that refers to "Don" being a term used for high-school graduates (first time I've ever heard that one), could probably be removed.

"Don" is simply a term of respect in spanish, and it has nothing to do with Mr. Fraga's finishing high school, or being any kind of cacique in Galicia.--Bistor92 06:32, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

"Don" is indeed a term of respect in Spanish. But Fraga is subjective whether or not he deserves it. The real is the name of it. In no other version of wikipedia figure that title. For these reasons I have removed. Jgarpal (talk) 22:20, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

General POV

I believe these could use some attention...

"...which was taken to have political undertones.

Meaning, "Spain is different [and it's better served with a dictatorship]". -- Error 00:47, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Well yeah. What do you think of "..taken by ____ to have fascist undertones"?Mashford 01:15, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I don't like "Fascist" for that late Francoism. Better "taken by _ as a justification of the dictatorship". I don't know who _ is? -- Error 23:53, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I agree, that's better. I don't know who __ is either apart from the left in general, or maybe international observers of Spanish politics. Just trying for some specificity. Mashford 15:05, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

"The contact with foreign tourists led to economical and political evolution of Spaniards."

What is the problem? -- Error 00:47, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• First of all, I don't see what it has to do with Fraga, maybe belongs in Economy of Spain. Mostly, this is a very broad and vague statement. What sort of "evolution", into what? Does it just mean that tourism stimulated the economy? More info. Mashford 01:15, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Fraga was minister of Tourism. His politics encouraged (willingly or not) income in foreign currencies and the contact with more liberal and democratic ways of life. That's important. I have left it as:

The contact with foreign tourists led to economical development and political evolution

towards democracy of Spaniards.

-- Error 23:53, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hm, I see. Though I think you said it better first with "His politics...ways of life." Less fuzzy. Mashford 15:05, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

"Fraga's health is getting poorer. He has a very visible lameness and suffered for the death of his wife." Some sources would help on this one.

Mashford 05:39, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

What a "morro", Mr. Error.

I've seen that you defend Fraga as a good burocrat, but you did entered a little word: racist, to describe the Basque Nationalist Party, which is incomparablily more democratic.

Do you understand now a little better what I meant with Spanish propaganda?Idiazabal 23:16, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Try to not distort my words so much. -- Error 01:18, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Cleanup

Why is this article on cleanup? -- Error 02:50, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I have removed this: "To his supporters he is a Galician liberator who made Galicia a safer place to live in, in terms of security and health services. However his opponents see him as a fascist dictator who ruled Galicia for 15 years, and who helped General Franco's brutal regime. It is rumoured that Manuel Fraga ordered political killings during his presidency of Galicia, however there has never been any evidence to support these claims." It is totally pointless, misleading and confusing. His presidency of Galicia (1990-2005) has nothing to do with the Franco era (1936-1975). The accusations of abuse of power pertain to the Franco regime era. Also, calling him a "liberator" of Galicia makes no sense whatsoever, either. During his presidency of Galicia (1990-2005) Spain was a full democracy and political killings are totally out of the question (!!!!). There was considerable confusion in the paragraph I removed, if someone wants to reincorporate some of the ideas contained therein make sure you DO know what you're talking about. Thanks.

I removed uncited paragraph re Grimau case: "Grimau Case 1967: Julián Grimau, one of the PCE leaders, was ambushed while traveling by bus, the only other two passengers being members of the Spanish secret police. He was taken to the Puerta del Sol headquarters of the General Security Directorate (DGS, nowadays the seat of the Comunidad de Madrid administration). Grimau fell from a second-storey window, suffering serious injuries to his skull and both of his wrists. He later explained to his lawyers that he had been subject to torture while in the building, and had actually been flung arms forward by his investigators. The Minister of the Interior Manuel Fraga Iribarne replied that Grimau had been treated with care, and had thrown himself out the window for an "unexplainable" reason - which appears to be highly improbable. The government met on April 19, in a session that lasted ten hours: although Fernando Castiella, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, declared himself in favor of the pardon (bearing in mind the consequences on Spain's image), his opposition was timid. Franco imposed voting on the matter, and the final verdict was unanimity with the Manuel Fraga support for Grimau's execution." First, Grimau died in 1963, not 1967. Second, Fraga was not Minister of the Interior at that time, and would not hold that post until 1975. Third, the paragraph seems like ax grinding about Grimau, rather than background about Fraga. It is true that Fraga would long be criticized for his defense of the spanish ministry and for not supporting a pardon for Grimau, but unless this entry (Fraga) is made much longer and more detailed, this reference to Grimau is totally out-of-proportion to Fraga's career, in addition to being inaccurate (and awkward in grammar and style) in several ways. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EABSE (talk • contribs) 14:02, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Dead yet?

Is he dead? The List of Fascists lists him as dying in 2005 but this article doesn't. - User:DNewhall

No, he is quite alive, and serving as a senator. --Bistor92 06:29, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Category:Spanish Fascists

It has been removed this category from the article and since it has been more than one year since it was introduced and (as far as I see) there has been no controversy about it, I don't consider that it can be removed with simply an "removed a nonsense" sentence in the edit summary. Therefore, I restore the category and I propose to debate if it is really convenient to have it or not.--Xtv - (my talk) - (que dius que què?) 16:06, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Well considering that your opinion here is just a valuable as anybody's else and that you haven't given any other explanation, I will again remove that nonsense. I can't hardly understand how you can consider a democratic politician and one of the fathers of the constition a fascist. Just because he was a minister with Franco? Nonsense! Nonsense! and nonsense again! Adolfo Suarez was the Minister Secretary General of the Movimiento Nacional and Falange. He is also a fascist? Spain's first democratic president? The president who, together with the King made the Constitution a reality? I really believe that your vision of how was Spain under Franco is rather weird. Were all the majors of all cities in Spain fascists? They had to be part of the Movimiento to reach those . Even my mom had to be a member of the Seccion Feminina of the Falange back in the 50's just to be able to obtain a passport in order to get her lifetime travelling job. Sincerely... I hope you are not calling my mom a fascist.--Maurice27 19:03, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Fraga main image

I've changed the main photo of this article because, as a dead person, we need to have a more identificable image of his physical appearance, at least when he was more popular and is best remembered by people, the previous image shows a decrepit person near to his death, and this person has lived 89 years, there are a lot of photos to remember him. So, although he was somewhat hated by some people because of his political career and that's not my cup of tea, as I said, it's better to have a picture of him looks that best shows how he's remembered. -- tot-futbol 20:00, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

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Holocaust denial

Manuel Fraga Iribarne did the foreword to a book by an author who denied Holocaust but he stated that he didnt subscrived to that belief. [1]Mistico (talk) 00:16, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Crimes against humanity category removal

Crimes against humanity is a specific legal concept. In order to be included in the category, the event (s) must have been prosecuted as a crime against humanity, or at a bare minimum be described as such by most reliable sources. Most of the articles that were formerly in this category did not mention crimes against humanity at all, and the inclusion of the category was purely original research. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:49, 14 February 2024 (UTC)