Talk:Menologium

Change name to Menologion

I suggest changing the name of this article to Menologion. Since the book is written in Greek (and not Latin), there is no reason to list it in an English-language encyclopedia under a Latin name. MishaPan (talk) 03:10, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Menologium looks to be more widely used in Reliable Sources, so that is the preferred title, per WP:Article title. First Light (talk) 03:04, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

It isn't. The current article is a mess, as is its placement with its current lead and topic. (Apologies for the poor grammar below: Menologia is the better plural of both the Greek and Latin name and we're trying to distinguish them.)

If we were going to have a separate article specifically on the Eastern Orthodox works, as the current lead suggests, it would be at menologion per the article's own content; WP:RS WP:COMMON usage (note eg that Merriam-Webster has Menologion, menology, and no entry at all for Menologium); and consistency with Horologion. The article would need to lose between ½–¾ of its current content to new forked articles.

The Roman Catholic works are certainly mostly called by the name menologium, since they're usually written in Latin. If they're being left here, the lead needs a rewrite and the body needs to be restructured. To the extent your looking actually found menologium more common with Orthodox works, I'm sure you were seeing what I am: people just conflating them with the Catholic works, in contrast to how the article is currently written. On their own, the Greek form is more common in scholarly sources.

More importantly, neither of those are the actual WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the English term menologium, which is more general and pulls up entirely different works over the first half of their Google results. The Orthodox works could be dealt with at "menologion". It's the usual meaning of that term. The Catholic versions could be dealt with there as a WP:NATURALDAB and since they're based on the Greek works but—like we just said—on their own they'd be called menologium and once they're combined with the Greek works as a single topic that combo is usually called menologium as well. Since they aren't the actual primary topic, though, they'd need to be at Menologium (liturgical), Menologium (Christian), or something equivalent.

What seems best—especially since the current article doesn't know what the liturgical menologia are supposed to be anyway—is to stop gatekeeping and just treat all menologia here, civil and religious. — LlywelynII 05:51, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Wordpress cite

The automated system is getting annoyed that one of the best cites for the Old English Menologium is at Wordpress. If a well-meaning but overzealous editor or admin gets an alert and mistakenly deletes the source without providing a better alternative, kindly restore it:

<ref>{{citation |last=Olsen |first=Derek |date=21 September 2005 |contribution=The Menologium |contribution-url=https://haligweorc.wordpress.com/2005/09/21/the-menologium/ |url=http://haligweorc.wordpress.com |title=Haligweorc |publisher= |location= }}.</ref>

Edit: Oh, apparently it's also annoyed by Edwin Mellen Press. Same deal:

<ref>{{citation |last=Hart |first=Cyril Roy |author-link=Cyril Roy Hart |title=Learning and Culture in Late Anglo-Saxon England... |date=2003 |publisher=Edwin Mellen Press |location=[[Lewiston, New York|Lewiston]] }}.</ref>

Note that Mr Hart is an amateur but has his own Wiki page and his edition is cited prominently and with respect by Karasawa, who seems to be the major current scholar on this poem.  — LlywelynII 02:55, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Sources for future article expansion

or shunting the medieval poem into a separate article:

• Toswell, M.J. (1993), "The Metrical Psalter and The Menologium...", Neuphilologische Mitteilungen, vol. 94, Helsinki: Modern Language Society, pp. 249–257, JSTOR 43345949.
• Karasawa, Kazutomo (July 2016), "Lexical Choice and Poetic Freedom in the Old English Menologium", Journal of English and Germanic Philology, vol. 115, Champaign: University of Illinois Press, pp. 333+.

 — LlywelynII 21:19, 17 August 2023 (UTC)