Talk:Narayan Sai

Mention of father in article

Asaram Bapu was arrested for raping a girl. Almost immediately afterwards women came forward saying that not only the father but the son were involved with rape (the son has since been arrested). The two people and events are closely connected and it's difficult to find a source that does not discuss both father and son. We follow the sources. It is not "coatracking" to mention that the father was also arrested for rape around the same time (!). -- GreenC 16:27, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Clear WP:COATRACKING of attempts to tar and feather living people by accusations made against another living person. Take your crusade elsewhere. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 16:29, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Accusations by one BLP against another BLP, what are you talking about? Every source is reporting that both father and son have been arrested for rape. Do you have a problem with that fact? -- GreenC 16:48, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes the sources are reporting that. Do you have a problem acknowledging that Verifiability_does_not_guarantee_inclusion? Do you have a problem acknowledging that both father and son are living and the WP:BLP applies to both of them? Do you have a problem acknowledging that being a rapist is neither biologically inherited nor transmissible by close contact? Do you have a problem acknowledging that WP:BLPCRIME requires us to present people as innocent until proven guilty? Do you have a problem acknowledging that Wikipedia is not here to promote a campaign against potential rapists? -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 17:10, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

There is no "campaign" nor does it violate BLP to report such momentous events as both father and son arrested and jailed for rape. I've posted a notice at Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics#Narayan_Sai_and_Asaram_Bapu. -- GreenC 17:40, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

No "rape" charge on father, only "molestation." Bladesmulti (talk) 10:51, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for that clarification. I am not from India so don't know the difference of these terms. To me they sound equally bad, not that it matters but you said "only". Usually "molestation" is used in terms of minors. Is that the case, is he charged with a pedophilia related crime? --GreenC 19:50, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Teasing can be molestation too, and since the molestation was committed on a minor on a 16 year old but still lower than 18 year old the legal age of female adult in India, it will be noted as the sexual offense on the minor. Bladesmulti (talk) 05:38, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Sai as absconder?

I reverted an addition made by User talk: 14.139.38.10 a minuted ago because it blanked a bunch of discussion, so I am pasting it back here:

Narayan Sai was never an absconding accused for all these days, until he was arrested. His status as absconder was changed on Thursday, when Gujarat high court quashed the non-bailable warrant issued against him by a Surat court after he was charged with rape. Link : http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-12-06/vadodara/44863027_1_narayan-sai-nbw-gandhinagar-court but here he is called absconder, please change it asap.

Note that this is also posted at WP:BLPN Roberticus (talk) 13:04, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Correction of facts mentioned in the present page. Balance the article.

Narayan Sai was framed-up in a rape case, similar to what happened with his father- Asaram Bapu, a notable and renowned Indian spiritual leader. http://www.delhidailynews.com/news/I-am-being-framed-in-false-cases--claims-Narayan-Sai-1386152349/ The charges have not been proved in the court. Please also note that it was only one woman who filed an FIR against Narayan Sai accusing him of committing rape upon her and claiming that the rape happened 12 years ago. The FIR was loged on 6th October 2013 (not on 6th Sept). Besides controversies Sai is also known for his various social welfare projects in India and abroad. He has led projects for poverty alleviation in remote areas of MP and Gujarat along with de-addiction, stress management, environment conservation and disaster relief programs in all parts of India. His yoga and meditation sessions for children and youth are particularly popular in the country. Recently in 2011, he was invited by the Mauritius Government to be the chief guest at their National Diwali Celebration and was honoured by the Mauritian President Aniroodh Jagnath and the Prime Minister Naveenchandra Ramgolam, who also relased his book named 'Master Thus Spoke'. He has travelled length and breadth of the country for spiritual awakening of mankind, which is the key to living an overall prosperous life. He has also visited many Asian, Middle-Eastern, African, American and European countries to awaken mankind to the glory of Sanatan Dharma (Eternal Law). For this he has received several honours and acclamations from social and spiritual organisations. During his recent visit to Leh, Ladhak in June 2013, Sai addressed a big congregation of saints and spiritual masters who came from all over the world at Mahabodhi International Meditation Centre. Besides bridging gap between Hindus and Buddhist, Sai's speech also stressed on the need for the unity of all spiritual masters of world to achieve the common motto of mankind's welfare.

I reiterate a point made by someone else in talk:Narayan Sai section, please bring about this correction: Narayan Sai was never an absconding accused for all these days, until he was arrested. His status as absconder was changed by Gujarat high court, which quashed the non-bailable warrant issued against him by a Surat court after he was charged with rape. Link : http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-12-06/vadodara/44863027_1_narayan-sai-nbw-gandhinagar-court but here he is called absconder Sharethetruth500 (talk) 08:50, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

If we accept the first source you mention, we should also accept this one "I raped Surat woman," confesses Narayan Sai from the same news site, a few days later. The most recent article from Times of India, [1] suggests that he is still in prison. He may or may not be an absconder, but it's clear that more sources are needed, and if we remove all traces of controversy, there is not enough content left to form an article. Grayfell (talk) 08:53, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't ask you to remove parts mentioning controversy, but both sides of the coin must be considered. Please check the following link in response to the link you mentioned saying that he confessed committing rape: http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/cops-are-wrong-narayan-sai-did-not-admit-to-rape-says-lawyer-457509. please also check this video picked from TV9 News Channel of Gujarat, where Sai himself speaks to media and says in Hindi "rape nahi hua hai" (no rape has happened) http://shrinarayanpremsai.com/video-player.php?catidd=14&productid=355 Considering these two links one can realise that no offense has happened, he is being stopped from voicing out the truth through media....and its the police that is stopping him. It would be wrong to declare him guilty of an offense, which has not been proved in court. Keeping in mind that he hails from a highly respectable background (he being a renowned young spiritual leader), we must also mention in the article the positive contributions made by him for society. That would make the article a balanced one. Sharethetruth500 (talk) 10:50, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

To be clear, I am not an administrator, so I can't make edits to this article. Perhaps you should propose a specific change to the article, in your own words (not copied from a source) that you think should be made. Sorry, I wasn't very clear about the Delhi Daily News articles. My point was not that we should use the latter source, it was that we SHOULD NOT solely rely on the first one. There are a lot of short news articles floating around about this case. Simply put, we should explain that he is currently in jail, why he is in jail, and that he maintains his innocence, as supported by sources. This seems like the most respectful approach to both him and his accusers. Regarding his accomplishments, we are under no obligation to report any positive accomplishments he has made that are not supported by reliable sources. balance is a tricky thing. We should not add positive things simply to make him look better, but if you have sources that meet WP:BLP guidelines, they should be considered. Grayfell (talk) 00:04, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: This page is no longer protected. Subject to consensus, you should be able to edit it yourself. Jackmcbarn (talk) 18:35, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 11 February 2014 - Immediately remove BLP content

Based on this source [2] from the Times of India " His status as absconder was changed on Thursday, when Gujarat high court quashed the non-bailable warrant issued against him " "As the high court has quashed the NBW, Sai cannot be said to have evaded arrest ever " Per WP:BLP and WP:CRIME the two sentences in the article declaring that he is an "absconder" must be altered or removed. Since i can come up with no way to properly formulate what actually happened without UNDUELY drawing attention to a crime that was never a crime, I believe removal should be done immediately with proposals for reformulation taken and discussed. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 02:10, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: This page is no longer protected. Subject to consensus, you should be able to edit it yourself. Jackmcbarn (talk) 18:35, 16 February 2014 (UTC)