Talk:Old English
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Old English article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4Auto-archiving period: 4 months  |
 | Old English was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
| Current status: Delisted good article | |||||||||||||
 | This  level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Incorrect image
editThe article's title image is showing up as the Israeli flag for me. I'm not confident editing the page itself, and when I went to edit it described the image as something from Beowulf. Is this a glitch in my mobile app, or something that needs changing? Cheers. 109.180.83.49 (talk) 06:42, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
- There was some similar vandalism mentioned on the Helpdesk yesterday. I don't see the flag, so you could try a null edit to refresh your version of the page. TSventon (talk) 08:02, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
"0ld English" listed at Redirects for discussion
edit
The redirect 0ld English has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 4 § 0ld English until a consensus is reached. Bearcat (talk) 19:51, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
Wrong translation of "HVÆT"?
editThe translation of Beowulf starts with HVÆT! translated to "What!" but that makes little sense to me.
Isn't the more obvious translation: "Know!"? That is, the poet would recite the poem in front of an audience and start by telling them that they should pay attention. "You must now know/hear the following..."
I'm no expert on the subject, but as a Dane, that would make sense in Danish... To know = 'at vide'. The imperative is "Vid!"
In Old Norse, it would would be "Veit", which seems very close to Hvæt. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:AA7:410D:CADB:21C1:F4BD:E1B0:76B1 (talk) 14:24, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
2A02:AA7:410D:CADB:21C1:F4BD:E1B0:76B1 (talk) 12:31, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- We would translate it as per the sources. There is no doubt, of course, that hwæt is the source of English what. But then there is the matter of semantic drift. This word really has no exact translation here. It has been translated so, listen, indeed and probably others. What is not unreasonable and if that is in a source translated text, we should not be changing it. We could, perhaps, use a different source text that translates differently, but that would affect the whole translation and not just that word. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 13:15, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Apparently J.R.R. Tolkien used to begin his Oxford lectures with a loud "HVÆT". "What" seems a poor translation. Johnbod (talk) 13:28, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Surely it's worth keeping in mind that Tolkien was a scholar from several generations previous. It's not as if the corpus has grown or what have you, but I recall at least several occasions reading the opinion of contemporary scholars that translation as 'listen' is itself distinctly problematic, even if more natural on this end at first blush. Remsense ‥ 论 13:33, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- The paper "The Status of "hwæt in old English" (2013) by George Walker (doi:10.1017/S1360674313000129) argues that, since supposed instances of exclamatory "hwæt" seem to effect word order in following clauses, and since this is unusual in general for interjections, it is actually an exclamatory, similar to Modern English "how...!" as in "how good it was!" In this case, the correct translation is "How (much) we have heard of the Spear-Danes..." Hroðgar Stæfwita (talk) 07:01, 27 October 2024 (UTC)
- Just to give an answer to the first post, no, the word is not a verb of knowing. The HW or HV sound in old Germanic languages was distinct, and not the same as W or V.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 07:24, 27 October 2024 (UTC)