Talk:Personal relationships of Paul McCartney

Silliness

I don't get it. How is it that Paul dated and married these people after he died? --NE2 15:45, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

But he's not dead. I don't get it either, what's the problem? That the page isn't categorized as part of Wikiproject:BLP? Reminds me of Chris Farley asking Paul, "you weren't really dead?".Synchronism (talk) 20:31, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Listen guys, he double married them. Easy, no? Now get a job. :))--andreasegde (talk) 11:49, 7 March 2011 (UTC)--andreasegde (talk) 11:49, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

He's alive; Paul is dead is a conspiracy theory with no evidence to back it. Jim Michael (talk) 19:38, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

GA

It will be nominated soon, after a good sweep with a stiff brush.--andreasegde (talk) 10:54, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Done.--andreasegde (talk) 13:13, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Personal relationships of Paul McCartney/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: AJona1992 (talk) 20:19, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

General notes

Lead

• 01. "McCartney had a three-year relationship with Dot Rhone in Liverpool, who was told which clothes he wanted her to wear and which make-up to use." - consider revising. Why does the article starts off with this sentence? Why isn't his full name spelled out and linked?
• 02. Also make sure you are abiding WP:Lead which states "The lead serves both as an introduction to the article and as a summary of its most important aspects."

I will add more comments soon. Just to start off with the lead. Cheers, AJona1992 (talk) 20:33, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Relationship with Dot Rhone

• 01. "and stopped her smoking" - missing word and stopped her from smoking
• 02. Hamburg - wikilink, unusual/unknown places.
• 03. "she had to phone her "new" boyfriend to cancel their date, which was George Harrison." - consider rewording she had to phone her "new" boyfriend, George Harrison, to cancel their date.

Final notes

The article looks very good and well written. I am going to ask for a second opinion before this article can be passed to GA. In the meantime, please address the concerns that were stated. Thank you, AJona1992 (talk) 16:51, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Second opinion

The reviewer is asking for a second opinion so I'll weigh in.

Lead

• See WP:LEAD for instructions on the lead. A lead should be a summary of the entire article starting with an introductory sentence that bolds the title of the article. This article is missing this introductory sentence.
• To me the lead seems too detailed. I think two paragraphs would be enough and some of the information in the lead could be removed. Keep summary style in mind. That's my opinion though.
• A lead picture would be appropriate as well.

Dot Rhone

• It's best to place ref anchors at the end of sentences. This improves readability and flow. See WP:INCITE for thoughts on this. Only controversial claims should be referenced w/in the sentence.
• Since there's a paragraph w/in the section that has nothing to do with Dot Rhone you may want to retitle the section something like "Early relationships" to be more consistent with the information in the section.

Jane Asher

• Watch for overlinking. See WP:LINK for thoughts on this. Words in common English useage like "photographer", "fan", "physician" don't need to be linked.
• Photographer is linked twice in this section. Neither time is necessary twice is too much.
• Is there more on the woman McCartney was in bed with? You have the name, Fancie Schwartz, was it a one-night stand or more substantial? It seems from the WP article about her that it was more than a one-night stand.

Linda Eastman

• Is there a reference for the self-claim that they never spent more than a week apart?
• Not sure you need to list all the children in the {{main}} tophat. The section is on Linda McCartney, that should suffice as the "main" article. I'm open to discussion on this point though.

Overall

• I think the article is in good shape but I have some concerns:

• I'd like to see more about Fancie Schwartz. Speaks to comprehensive requirement.
• The lead is not quite up to snuff. MOS compliance
• Some minor things like placing citations w/in the sentences and overlinking that would fall into MOS compliance issues.

• References are good.
• Writing is decent for GAC.
• It appears stable and images are ok.
• I'm going to hold the article for a week pending work and/or discussion on the issues raised above. H1nkles (talk) _{citius altius fortius} 23:23, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

The article has been worked on.--andreasegde (talk) 06:43, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

All my concerns have been addressed except the addition of information on Fancie Schwartz. I'm only going on what I read in her WP aritcle but it appears as though McCartney had a legitimate relationship with her (she moved in with him, he gave her a job, etc.). It seems that this relationship warrants more than half a sentence. You are more familiar on the subject than I so I welcome your input if you'd like to discuss. H1nkles (talk) _{citius altius fortius} 21:00, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll look up more stuff on her, but there were an awful lot of other girls as well. BTW, it is said that she was "prematurely grey", which is an interesting angle from Macca's point of view. :)--andreasegde (talk) 17:44, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm beginning to doubt Francies thoughts on moving in with McCartney, because she said in this interview: "he [McCartney] stuck a huge piece of hash into my mouth and said 'Take a bite.' I did - I ended up reading the palms of a dozen people in the restaurant that was below my apartment, after the chauffeur dropped P off at the gates of Cavendish Avenue." She had her own apartment?--andreasegde (talk) 18:17, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Then she says: "Seriously, I can't compare him to other men I've dated, because a) Paul and I never "dated", and b) I was attracted to Paul's mind more than his physical self. Usually it was the other way around when I was one and twenty..." She said earlier that she was 23. Hmmm... Also, saying that "Hey Jude" was composed about her would need a lot more references before it was put in.--andreasegde (talk) 18:23, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I've put in what I think is relevant about her and McCartney, without going into too much detail. She has her own page, after all.--andreasegde (talk) 18:27, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

You make some good points and I like the additions on this subject. I combined the two following sentences in the previous paragraph as I felt that they fit w/in the subject and I don't like one-line paragraphs. All my concerns have been addressed. I think it is GA quality but I feel as thought the original reviewer to make the final determination. I will ping the reviewer and inform him/her of my review and thoughts. If s/he does not pass it to GA w/in the week I will do so. H1nkles (talk) _{citius altius fortius} 18:50, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Nicely written and I'm glad that you had fixed all issues that the both of us had stated. I'm going to pass the article to GA. Congrats, AJona1992 (talk) 20:53, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

• "'...Usually it was the other way around when I was one and twenty...' She said earlier that she was 23. Hmmm...". I think she's quoting A. E. Housman's poem here rather than intending to give her exact age. Angr (talk) 18:35, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Consider revising 1st sentence of Linda Eastman section to read "In June 1968, McCartney met Linda Eastman again in Los Angeles when he was there to announce the formation of Apple Corps." McCartney travelled alone to LA (not Lennon) in June (not May) for Apple promotion, by accounts of those present (Ron Kass, Tony Bramwell) he met up with Linda in LA first, not New York. Also consider minor revision to 2nd sentence to read "Six months later they were married at a small civil ceremony, when Eastman was three months pregnant with their child..." as Mary McCartney was born 28Aug1969 per her Wikipedia page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.189.239.239 (talk) 18:14, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Wohlers/Krischbin lawsuit

There's a paternity lawsuit that could be significant enough to make it into this article. Even if not fully sufficient evidence from the 1980s point towards the possibility that Paul wasn't involved, the case that two lawsuits were started over the thing may make the claim relevant enough for the article (not to mention he paid money two times in order to settle child maintenance claims in the case). The basic claim is that McCartney had an affair during their early 60s Hamburg days with local waitress Erika Wohlers (her last name being Hübers today), fathering her daughter Bettina Hübers, now Krischbin. Apparently, there are authentic photos showing hugs between Paul and Erika during the Reeperbahn days. In 1966, Erika wrote angry letters and Paul paid her £2,600 (then about 25,000 Deutschmarks), saying today that he only did so because the West-German authorities were threatening otherwise to not let them tour the country anymore.

In 1984, Erika's daughter Bettina sued McCartney in order to make him recognize her as his legal daughter. He turned in a blood sample that was tested and the blood type turned out to be one which supposedly ruled out that he was the father. They settled out of court, with Paul paying money over the issue again, this time 16,000 Deutschmarks (then about £7,000), making the final sum he has paid to Erika and her daughter Bettina to be 41,000 Deutschmarks (or circa 20,000 Euros today).

However, not only is more accurate genetic testing around by now, Bettina also found an authoritative source that says that Paul's blood type is different from the one found in his supposed 1984 blood sample, and she also claims that the photo of the man whose blood was taken in 1984 (which she didn't get to see up until 2007) was definitely not showing Paul. So she tried to sue him again in 2007 for fraud, accusing him of having turned in a stand-in's blood sample, to now get a much more accurate genetic paternity test from him. However, in 2007 the court ruled that the statute of limitation for fraud had run out after more than two decades and dismissed the case, not giving her the option to legally make him take a genetic test. Some "Paul is dead" conspiracists keep clinging to this story because it makes it look like Paul's blood type would be different in 1984 from what it was in the 60s. In case we'll put it in here, it could carry over to Template:Paul McCartney family as Bettina Hübers (1962; disputed).

Sources:

• Kohrt, Wolfgang (2007). The girl and the Beatles: The history of Bettina Krischbin that believes to be the daughter of Paul McCartney, Berliner Zeitung, 24th November 2007

• de Quetteville, Harry (2007). McCartney fraud charge over 'love child', The Telegraph, 19 May 2007

• Connolly, Kate (2007). McCartney paternity inquiry dropped, The Guardian, 26 May 2007

• Hardinghaus, Barbara (2007). Papa Paul - Warum eine Berlinerin glaubt, sie sei Paul McCartneys Tochter, Der Spiegel, No. 26, 25 June 2007

If you ask me, I'd say she looks much more like John than Paul. --79.242.222.168 (talk) 06:16, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Handedness in the McCartney family

With Paul being pretty much the most famous leftie of all time, would it be noteworthy that none of his and Linda's kids turned out left-handed? I mean, in spite of suspicions that it might be genetical. --46.93.158.170 (talk) 08:27, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Jim and Mary McCartney

There is a discussion about redirecting Jim and Mary McCartney into this one at Talk:Jim and Mary McCartney#Merge discussion. AIRcorn (talk) 22:20, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Who is Michael?

In the Jim and Mary McCartney section, it says "After Paul and Michael became interested in music..." and there's no information about a Michael.MartinezMD (talk) 17:18, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

 Fixed by someone. WWGB (talk) 02:15, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Michael is Paul's younger brother, later to find some musical success as Mike McGear. 90.244.205.96 (talk) 12:12, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Relationship with Francie Schwartz

Francie Scwartz did have an extensive relationship with Paul McCartney. She strongly denies that Jane Asher caught Paul in bed with her, and she stated that the McCartney - Asher engagement was already broken off before she became involved with Paul, see http://www.abbeyrd.net/francie.htm . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rrhea2 (talk • contribs) 20:17, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

no she doesn't deny that Jane caught them in bed; she confirms it. But she says that the relationship with Asher was already very rocky, and that Asher had already decided to end it, i.e. she denies that Asher finding them in bed was the reason for ending it. Schwartz is an extremely reliable witness, and an excellent historian. 2607:FEA8:129D:E00:681F:7D04:A83C:E819 (talk) 13:14, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

I agree with the poster's assessment of Schwartz; her account of her time in London with Paul/the Beatles is reliable and detailed, and an overlooked personal accounting of a key time period in the band's history (Summer of 1968, recording of the White Album). Per her book, she stayed at ("lived at" may be arguable) Paul's house in St. John's Wood most of the summer, arriving in London early April '68 and departed back to New York after breaking up with McCartney Aug/Sept same year. His relationship with Asher was mostly over by this point, eg. he also had a romantic assignation with Linda Eastman in Los Angeles June '68 (during his Apple promotion visit) that led to her moving in with him in London by end of that year. 146.189.239.239 (talk) 17:38, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Who is Ruth?

In the section "Jim and Mary McCartney" under the part "Songs" is says "and said the lyrics were taken from Ruth McCartney's sheet-music copy of Thomas Dekker's lullaby—also called "Golden Slumbers"—that Ruth had left on the piano at Rembrandt. No where else is Ruth mention.

Also "Songs" starts "Paul wrote "I Lost My Little Girl" just after Mary had died". Mary had not yet been mention so at that point you don't know she is Paul's mother. Beatles777! (talk) 00:59, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Ruth was Paul's stepsister through his father's second marriage. 90.244.205.96 (talk) 12:10, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Francie Schwartz needs to be included in this article. 2607:FEA8:129D:E00:681F:7D04:A83C:E819 (talk) 13:12, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Francie Schwartz again

I see that Francie Schwartz used to have an extensive, and well referenced, article of her own, see [1]. However, in 2019 User:Ritchie333 redirected the article to Personal relationships of Paul McCartney, which is confusing since there is no mention of Schwartz in this article (although there were at the time the redirect was made). As far as I can tell, the redirect was never discussed. I would be in favour of removing the redirect and restoring the article. Opinions? --Viennese Waltz 07:04, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Appears to have been redirected by an admin without discussion or consensus. WWGB (talk) 10:44, 15 August 2024 (UTC)