Talk:Scouting in Wales

Merge of Area articles

I will be proposing that all the area articles in Wales be merged into a single article here, overwriting the current redirect. This involves the following articles:-

Brecknock Scout Area (The Scout Association) · Cardiff and The Vale of Glamorgan Scout Area (The Scout Association) · Carmarthenshire Scout Area (The Scout Association) · Ceredigion Scout Area (The Scout Association) · Clwyd Scout Area (The Scout Association) · Glamorgan West Scout Area (The Scout Association) · Gwent Scout Area (The Scout Association) · Mid Glamorgan Scout Area (The Scout Association) · Montgomeryshire Scout Area (The Scout Association) · Pembrokeshire Scout Area (The Scout Association) · Radnor Scout Area (The Scout Association) · Snowdonia and Anglesey Scout Area (The Scout Association)

This is in accordance with the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting#Structural changes UK. The idea is to use the 12 regions defined by the Nomenclature of Territorial Units for Statistics shown in the image on the right that shows the 9 regions of England, to which Wales, Scotland and Northern Island are added. This process is completed for Northern Ireland with the article, Scouting in Northern Ireland. The idea is to cover all Scouting, but not Guiding, so that article for NI covers Scouting Ireland units as well as those for the Scout Association. Guiding is not included because the term in UK is not understood to be part of Scouting, so the Project convention does not work for the UK. Also the Guides have a small number of relatively large regions in their organisation and articles on these are developing.

There are many reasons for doing this:-

• The current articles are lacking in notability and third party independent sources.
• They are currently unmaintainable due to the small number of Scouting editors in the UK, which has significantly decreased since they were first written.
• The lists of Groups should be removed, as they are quite unencyclopedic, are not notable, not verified and are original research. Editors pass by the articles adding, changing or removing entries for their own Group, but with no sources. Not all articles on Counties/Areas have these lists and they are much better articles. It is also not the case that such lists are common for articles on similar structural regions in other countries. The proper place for information on Groups is Scoutwiki, where articles on individual Groups are welcome. I will copy the Area articles there at some point.
• Much the same applies to names of District and Area Commissioners. These are living people. We do not know whether these entries are correct as again there are no references. Indeed this point and the one above constitute the vast majority of edits to these articles in the past year.
• There has been some debate about whether these should be restricted to matters concerning the Scout Association or whether they should cover the BPSA and other traditional Scouting associations. There was some disagreement about the move from, say Scouting in Brecknock to Brecknock Scout Area (The Scout Association). In some cases information on non-Scout Association units has been added to the articles. This was particularly true for the NI articles.

So, a smaller number of articles is much more likely to give us high quality articles. With non-notable material removed, I do not think the articles will be too large. If in future they become two large, we can look again at this, perhaps forking off articles such as Scout Campsites in Wales.

I will be adding the tags later after seeking a few other eyes to look at the above and improve it. --Bduke (talk) 23:06, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

The merge tags have now been added, so the debate is open. I am drafting the proposed new article to overwrite the Scouting in Wales redirect at User:Bduke/Sandbox2. Please discuss the merge below. --Bduke (talk) 00:47, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

• Support merge, obviously as nominator. The third edit to my draft finished copying everything I thought was of note from the 12 Area articles. It is this version. I think that shows just how poor the area articles were. There are no third party references. In some cases, even the basic organisation of the Area is missing. That version needs a massive improvement, which I will now be working on while this discussion continues. --Bduke (talk) 00:47, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
• This plan makes sense to me. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:23, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I am going to be bold and make this merge. The lack of interest in discussing this is, I think, a reflection on the lack of interest currently in the Area articles for Wales which are in a bad state. I will then progress to tag articles in two of the Groups of UK Counties for merging (see Talk:Scouting in England. --Bduke (talk) 22:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

A possible source

This book is listed on Amazon UK but is not available there. It could be a most useful source for expanding the history section

"This is scouting...in Wales =: Dyma fudiad y sgowtiaid...yng Nghymru" by Welsh Scout Council (Unknown Binding - 1994)

It seems a revision was mooted in 2007 but did not happen. --Bduke (talk) 22:39, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

General discussion on these region Scouting pages

There has been a discussion at Talk:Scouting in South West England#Not a satisfactory article that could equally apply to this article and all other 11 region articles in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I have moved the discussion to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting#Scouting in the regions of England. Please take a look. --Bduke (Discussion) 11:39, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

2010 Review

Setting this as a start class article, as it is mainly a series of lists rather than a descriptive encycopedic article. FruitMonkey (talk) 21:55, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Merge of Yr Hafod

Yr Hafod is a very small stub and it may be difficult to build it to a full article. We do have separate articles on some Scout Activity Centres. I think the material should be merged back into the Scouting in Wales article until it gets too big and then a separate article could be crreated for Yr Hafod. Mention should also be made on the Scout Activity Centre articles. A merge there is an alternative. Please comment below. --Bduke (Discussion) 22:17, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

• Support merge as nom. --Bduke (Discussion) 22:17, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

• Support merge per nom. --Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 00:04, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

I have done the merge and also added a section on Yr Hafod in Scout Activity Centres. --Bduke (Discussion) 22:00, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

General state of this article

This article reads as if it written by the local Scout organisations as if owned by them. I have removed clauses that name commissioners as they are not notable. It still needs more work. --Bduke (talk) 00:24, 23 September 2021 (UTC)