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Timeform Data
editThe page lists Sea Bird II's timeform score as 145, and states that it is the highest ever given. However, on Arkle's page, his timeform score is listed as 212, and stated as the highest ever given (it also says that Flyingbolt at 210 and Mill House at 191 are the second and third highest). Clearly, some clarification is in order.
Arkle, Flyingbold, and Mill House were steeplechasers; Sea Bird II raced only over the flat. There are different scales for flat, hurdle, and steeplechase horses Timeform's greatest racehorses. The categories should be more explicit on the page for each racehorse. AliasMarlowe (talk) 16:47, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Name of Horse
editThe horse was called Sea Bird. I think the article should reflect this. Perhaps with "Sea Bird II" redirecting. 86.180.252.162 (talk) 22:57, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
- well it was actually Sea-Bird (with the hyphen), and that's how it is now. Tigerboy1966 21:01, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- I see it's now Sea Bird. Tricky: the Racing Post calls him Sea-Bird in this article, but Sea Bird in the caption![1]. But see also[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]
Hello Tigerboy1966, not sure if this is the correct way to contact you. I am not trying to be difficult, I assure you. I would like to mention that it is your modern usage of the name Sea-Bird that I bring into question. You are correct but that was not the usage at the time of the horse's racing career. It is a matter of which stance you take - contemporary or modern. I prefer the former and you do not. Is there a compromise here? Thank you for contacting me. So Cruise. I refer you to my previous submission which I hoped would put clarity on the various namings: However, most contemporary writers refer to the unhyphenated Sea Bird or Sea Bird ll so the 'modern' naming should be seen as just that and not what was used at the time. Writers and accepted authorities such as Arthur Fitzgerald (The Official History of the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe 1965-1982) Quintin Gilbey of the Sporting Chronicle, Tom Nickalls of the Sporting Life, John Lawrence (Audax) of the Horse and Hound all used the Sea Bird version. Timeform Publications and their annuals Racehorses of 1964/1965 both used Sea Bird ll. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Socruise (talk • contribs) 13:09, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
- the tricky thing is that many horses were given what might be called exonyms when racing abroad because a horse of a similar name had already been registered. It goes back at least to Whisk Broom II. My take on the Sea-Bird, Sea Bird, Sea Bird II is this: there was a horse called Sea-Bird. When he raced abroad he was referred to as Sea Bird II as there were other "Sea Bird"s.[2] [3] Modern writers have gone back to calling him by his "correct" name. It is a bit silly that few people can agree on the name of one of the best horses ever. I prefer Sea-Bird as it's more useful. If you type Sea Bird into Wikipedia, you get articles about Guillemots and Kittiwakes. With Sea-Bird you go straight to the horse. I am copying this to the article talk page. Tigerboy1966 13:12, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
I possess many of the racing publications of the 1960 - 1968 era and both Timeform and the Tote Racing Annuals refer to Sea Bird ll and the Official History of the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe 1965-1982 by Arthur Fitzgerald refers to Sea Bird. In his Author's Note, Fitzgerald writes and I quote exactly: 'In this book all the horses are referred to as they appeared in either the French, English or Irish stud books at birth, therefore, for example, Sea Bird is not named Sea Bird II nor is Nijinsky Nijinsky II'. This I feel, is pertinent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Socruise (talk • contribs) 14:44, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
References
- ^ Chris McGrath (2012-04-30). "Frankel the best now – perhaps ever - Racing - Sport". The Independent. Retrieved 2012-06-20.
- ^ Cite error: The named reference
guardianwas invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ "Sea-bird Horse Pedigree". Pedigreequery.com. Retrieved 2012-06-20.
- ^ Morris, Tony; Randall, John (1990). Horse Racing: Records, Facts, Champions(Third Edition). Guinness Publishing. ISBN 0-85112-902-1.
- ^ Morris, Tony; Randall, John (1999). A Century of Champions. Portway Press,. ISBN 1-90157015-0.
{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (link) - ^ "Chefs-de-Race". Chef-de-race.com. Retrieved 2012-06-20.
- ^ "Sea-Bird was a high flyer - - Mirror Online". Mirror.co.uk. 2008-08-09. Retrieved 2012-06-20.
Upgrading
editI am taking out pov stuff and adding references. Tigerboy1966 21:02, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Timeform, Frankel
editSB's 145 remains as of now (July 2012), Timeform's highest end-of-year rating. Those ratings announced during the season, like Frankel's 147, are always provisional. A lot of press reports did not make this clear. It is very likely that Frankel will be rated 146+ at the end of the year, but let's not jump the gun. Tigerboy1966 06:37, 3 July 2012 (UTC)