Talk:Silence (Endō novel)

Fair use rationale for Image:Silence novel.jpg

Image:Silence novel.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot 01:10, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Christ breaks His silence

The article has: "as Ferreira looks upon a fumie, Christ breaks His silence:"

This didn't read very clearly for me, a better wording might be something like "...Christ appears to speak to him." I haven't read the novel so I can only offer this as a suggestion. Does this rewording still fit the intended meaning? --DrHacky 06:30, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I would prefer something that emphasizes that epiphany-like nature of the passage in the book. The novel, as a philosophical/religious work, largely revolves around the apparent silence of God/Christ in the face of human suffering and the suggested wording sounds rather like Christ speaking to the faithful is an everyday experience. - BanyanTree 23:07, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Epiphany, eh? Hmmm... I might have trouble there. Could just say "...the image of Christ speaks to him," making it more direct. Just to clarify, I think my issue with the original wording is it strikes me as a little tabloid, but moreover it led me to expect the actual person of Christ to be speaking in the passage. If no-one else is bothered by the phrase though, we could well just leave it. --DrHacky 15:56, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

While one can argue readings of the book, Christ is speaking. You perhaps were thinking that Christ would show up in the flesh? It's the dramatic apex of the novel, so I guess I don't mind if sounds dramatic. I went looking for a more popular work to see how they deal with the big reveal and found "Thus, Sauron was banished from the world and his realm ended. Aragorn was crowned king and married Arwen, the daughter of Elrond. However, all was not over, for Saruman had managed to escape his captivity and enslave the Shire. Although he was overthrown by the Hobbits and the four heroes helped to restore order and beautify the land again, it was not the same Shire that they left. At the end, Frodo remained wounded in body and spirit and, accompanied by Bilbo, sailed west over the Sea to the Undying Lands, where he could find peace." At the risk of having WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS pointed out to me, the tone of the plot summary here seems to be within wiki norms. I actually had thought of not including the extended quotation at all, but figured that, as the whole novel leads to that point, it is worth including in full. - BanyanTree 05:44, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I've got no issue with including the quotation or using extra-dramatic prose. I think I'm just used to seeing "to break one's silence" in contexts like "Britney breaks her silence over break-up" and such, which is why I say "tabloid". Christ may be speaking to Ferreira through the fumie, although admittedly to my reading, "the eyes spoke pleadingly" sounds more like Ferreira's internal voice reading Christ's face, but "breaking one's silence" still sounds like Christ in the flesh. In any case, it sounds like an interesting boook and I'm grateful for you bringing it to my attention. I've been interested in this chapter of history, which I previously knew nothing about, since I visited the hot springs at Unzen where the Christian martyrs were supposedly boiled alive. --DrHacky 06:14, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Silence novel.jpg

Image:Silence novel.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 02:23, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

crudely carved?

I have not read the novel, but this article describes fumie as "crudely carved" whereas the article on fumie states, "Many, if not all, these works were made with care, and they reflected the high artistic standards of the Edo period." While both may be correct (the fictional fumie in the novel may be crude whereas most real fumie may be high art) someone with some expertise in the area may want to flesh this out a bit. 68.73.80.211 (talk) 08:48, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Correcting errors

This article stated that the main character was fictional. But, as stated in the introduction to the novel, Rodrigues is based on Giuseppe Chiara (xiii). Also, the article stated that the novel is "[w]ritten mostly in the form of a letter," when only about a third of it is. I've made the corrections in the article.

(I am a thirty-year-old English professor coming here to see what my students, invariably, will read about the novel. The fact that dumb errors like these can stand in an encyclopedia is why teachers warn their students not to trust this site.)

98.240.208.99 (talk) 09:09, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia warns students not to trust the site. See Wikipedia#Reliability and Wikipedia:Academic use. Though I do feel a need to point out that there don't appear to be any other general encyclopedias with entries specific to this novel, so the assertion that a traditional encyclopedia wouldn't have erroneous content is true insofar in that they wouldn't have any content at all in this case.

As for your specific points, if Rodriguez is a character based on Chiara, he is, by definition, fictional. See the cited sources Dewey 2005 ("Silence tells the story of a fictional seventeenth-century Jesuit missionary, Sebastian Rodrigues.") and Cavanaugh 1998 ("In Silence, Endo's fictional Ferreira serves as a goad to Rodrigues's pride."), though both go on to discuss the historical basis of the fictional character. You may wish to inform Brett Dewey of Bethel College and William Cavanaugh of the University of St. Thomas of their dumb errors. Thank you for the additional detail about Chiara.

The "form of a letter" line goes back to my original stub in 2007 but isn't supported by the given reference, as far as I can tell from skimming. I no longer recall if I was sloppy about citing an assertion made in another reference or if I made an assertion based on my memory of the book. In any case, I will take your word that it is a mistake. Thanks for the correction. - BanyanTree 12:00, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

External links modified

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Use of "Father" as a priest title is not normally OK in Wikipedia articles

WP:HONORIFIC (Wikipedia's Manual of Style) says: "In general, styles and honorifics should not be included in front of the name, but may be discussed in the article."

Accordingly, I'm removing occurrences of "Fr." as an honorific prefix. Where needed, I'll add text to state that a person is a priest. Mksword (talk) 21:14, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

The Plot Summary

The Plot Summary for this novel, which should be renamed "Synopsis," does not accurately reflect the novel's plot. Piecemeal edits to the page have resulted in a synopsis which is disorganized and does not reflect the content of the novel. Also, the tone of the article does not meet Wikipedia's encyclopedic goals. Finally, many sentences are totally irrelevant, and would be better placed in another section such as "Historical Background" etc. (e.g., characters being based on actual historical figures)

I don't know a lot about editing Wikipedia, but I actually created an account just to edit this page. It kinda bothers that this article doesn't meet my high expectations, because there are three movies (2016, 1996, 1971) and the 2016 film has an amazing article.