Talk:The 30th/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 08:19, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I will review this now! --K. Peake 08:19, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: oh hi, we meet again! Thank you for picking it up! I am extremely busy with classes and in general school life, so I am really sorry that my responses will be pretty sporadic :^/ ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ ‍ ^{💬 "What did I tell you?"}
_{📝 "Don't get complacent..."} 09:49, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

That is fine, take a decent amount of time if you want but try to make it within a week or so! --K. Peake 10:10, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• WP:OVERLINK of Finneas under the infobox producer(s) parameter
  • Removed
• "Initially planning it for" → "Initially planning the song for"
  • Done
• Mention in the first sentence of the second para that it is a ballad
  • Mentioned
• "its lyrics center around" → "its lyrics are centered around"
  • Any particular reason for the change in wording? Both seem fine in my view
• The narration sentence is worded confusingly; specific that she narrates the two awoke in the ambulance and it was her who learned on the way to the hospital
  • Nope, it was only the friend who was at the hospital. The implication is that Eilish was in a car somewhere else on the same road. I think the sentence is pretty clear about this fact
• "lists several what-if scenarios" → "lists several alternate scenarios"
• "of the accident were different." → "of the accident had been different."
  • Done both
• Add a sentence about the song's commercial performance at the end of the lead
  • Unlike TV (song), it reached the top 40 in relatively few territories, so I'm not really sure about its relevance in the lead

Background and release

• Remove American singer-songwriter introduction to Billie Eilish
• Remove commas around Happier Than Ever
  • Done both
• "She decided on the title because on November 30 of that year," → "The singer decided on the title because on November 30, 2021,"
  • I've seen some folks discourage against this per WP:ELEVAR, and I tend to agree with them. I believe I have raised a similar concern in the GAN for "TV"
• "witness and experience."" → "witness and experience"." per MOS:QUOTE
  • Done
• Remove comma after The Ellen DeGeneres Show
  • Removed
• "in the EP; initially, she planned" → "on the EP; initially, Eilish planned"
  • Fixed that typo
• "and the other song in the EP," → "and the EP's other song,"
  • This should be resolved as I chose to move the mention of "TV" earlier
• Since the chart positions are commercial reception and the critical reception section is too small, move there as I will further instruct
  • Done
• Mention the name of the tour, also move this to reception as I will further instruct
  • Oops, yeah my bad. There should be a more specific description now. However I chose not to move it to the other section since I fail to see how merely performing a song counts as promotion for that song in particular.
• "due to its personal lyrics." → "due to the personal lyrics."
  • Done

Music and lyrics

• ""The 30th" is a" → "Musically, "The 30th" is a"
  • As with the "TV" GAN, I believe the "musically" word here seems like fluff.
• Pipe minimalist to Minimal music
  • Hesitant. I did the same thing for the "TV" GAN, but it seems like another editor undid it here. And honestly I see their point.
• Wikilink acoustic guitar
• "It has a runtime" → "The song has a runtime"
• "created when they" → "which were created when they" to be specific
  • Done all three
• "centers around the November car accident" → "is centered around the November car accident"
  • See my reply to the same concern but for the lead section
• "and recalled what happened" → "and recalls what happened"
  • I chose this tense for "recall" specifically because it parallels the other verb "went unconscious", which applies to the friend. The lyrics say "You pieced it all together on the drive", so it was the friend who recalled what happened, not Eilish. Though I can see the confusion because earlier I used "recall" to refer to Eilish
• "the same road where and when the car accident happened, during which time she wondered why" → "the same road as the car accident happened, wondering why"
  • Trimmed
• "while they were hospitalized. They told her that" → "while in hospital. The friend told her"
• Audio sample looks good!
• "Her voice loudens" → "Eilish's voice loudens" but the voice loudness increasing is not sourced
• It is not sourced that Eilish actually shouts those lyrics
  • Could have sworn I read somewhere that she was shouting ... oh well, must have been confusing it with the "chords build-up" the sources discuss. This is removed
• "but this time, she changes" → "but this time, Eilish changes"
• [28] should be invoked after both sentences that quote it directly
  • Done both
• "she argues that listeners" → "she argued that listeners"
  • Changed tenses

Critical reception

• Retitle to Reception and promotion, making commercial performance the second para and live performances the third
  • Partly done - I did not include the live performances in this section because (1) there are only two relevant sentences and (2) performing a song =/= promoting the song, necessarily. See above.
• "and were a testament to" → "and a testament to"
  • Trimmed

Personnel

• Good

Charts

• Good

References

Notes

• Good

Sources

• Copyvio score looks great at 16.0%!!!
• Cite MTV News as publisher instead on ref 3
  • Will rehash what I said on the "TV" GAN - Well, MTV News isn't a publisher, so it would be weird to brand them as such, plus this says not to "abuse incorrect template parameters (e.g. by putting the work title in |publisher= ... in an attempt to avoid italicizing digital sources"

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold until all of the issues are fixed! --K. Peake 10:10, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

  @Kyle Peake: I believe I have everything addressed! Thank you for the review. I agree that the length of each article section needed to be more balanced, and I am glad you pointed this out. Looking forward to what you think of the article now ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ ‍ ^{💬 "What did I tell you?"}
  _{📝 "Don't get complacent..."} 10:44, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

  Your Power You have done a good job on balancing this out, however I am still unsure about the narration sentence if it was her friend who learned on the way to the hospital. Also, at least mention some notable chart positions in the lead; I would suggest writing out the US Billboard Hot 100 because that is her native chart and then mentioning the countries it reached the top 40 in. --K. Peake 18:51, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

  @Kyle Peake: added info about the chart performance as the lead's last sentence. Wrt the lyrics, the first verse says "when you're staring into space / it's hard to believe you don't remember it / woke up in an ambulance / you pieced it all together on the drive". A bunch of "you"s there, which does tell us it was the friend. ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ ‍ ^{💬 "What did I tell you?"}
  _{📝 "Don't get complacent..."} 23:33, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

  ✓ Pass now, you have done a good job of explaining your points and this looks fab now! --K. Peake 07:19, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

  @Kyle Peake: thank you for the review and nice words! Hope to see you at GAN again soon ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ ‍ ^{💬 "What did I tell you?"}
  _{📝 "Don't get complacent..."} 07:21, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.