Talk:Tibeti

Deletion rationale

This article has been unreferenced since 2013, and was later tagged as such in 2015. I've not been unable to find any reliable sources referring to "Tibeti" as the name of a variety of Tibetan brick tea, and the two references that were present prior to 2013 were removed because neither of them actually refer to "Tibeti", although they do discuss the history of tea bricks in Tibet. Both of these references were provided with large quotations in the oldest revision of this article, when the article was created in 2009, by an editor who hasn't contributed since 2009. These quotations were apparently copy-pasted from Compressed tea § Production, where they remain in the current revision.

I'd recommend deleting this article since it's misleading and unhelpful, unless reliable sources confirm that this is a variety of tea that actually exists and that this article wasn't created in error. (Preferably sources published prior to May 2009, as this would prove the term was in use before the article existed.) The fact none have been added since the article was created suggests that they don't exist; I wasn't able to find any. – Scyrme (talk) 00:11, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

As a note, it's not even clear what language "Tibeti" is supposed to be derived from. "Tibet" is an exonym, and tea bricks are definitely not called "Tibeti" in Tibetan languages. Searching "Tibeti" brings up sources in Albanian and Hungarian, but the term is not the name of a variety of tea bricks in these languages, rather it corresponds to "Tibet" the place or "Tibetan" the adjective respectively. If it is Hungarian, it's not clear what the article's topic should be since "Tebeti" is just an adjective that doesn't refer to a particular variety of tea. Charitably, it could be guessed that the intended topic is "Tibetan brick tea" in general, but since this article is unreferenced there's nothing worth moving to that title. – Scyrme (talk) 01:38, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

New Sources

@Cunard: Thanks for locating relevant sources! To clarify, do any of them confirm that "Tibeti" is synonymous with 藏茶? My understanding is that 藏茶 refers to Tibetan dark tea in general, often sold in English as "Tibetan brick tea". I'd like to be sure that "Tibeti" does not refer to a particular variety of Tibetan dark tea.

If these terms are synonymous, then I'm not sure that "Tibeti" is the common name for this tea. "Tibetan brick tea", "Tibetan dark tea", and even simply "Tibetan tea" seem to be more common terms for this topic. The article may need to be moved to a more common name (although the term "Tibeti" could still be mentioned). – Scyrme (talk) 17:51, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

These are good points. I found sources discussing Tibeti as a Tibetan tea with the first source describing how it could be made into tea bricks:

1. Souter, Keith (2013). The Tea Cyclopedia: A Celebration of the World's Favorite Drink. New York: Skyhorse Publishing. ISBN 978-1-62873-548-2. Retrieved 2022-07-30 – via Google Books.

   The book notes: "Tibeti: this is a tea from the Sichuan province. It is a famous Tibetan tea, which can be made into tea bricks."

2. Watt, George (1908). The Commercial Products of India: Being an Abridgement of "The Dictionary of the Economic Products of India.". London: John Murray. p. 23. Retrieved 2022-07-30 – via Google Books.

   The book notes: "Speaking of green tea, the following passage from Vigne (Trav Kashmir, Ladakh and Iskardo, 1842, ii., 265) will be found interesting: "Tea, made or rather boiled with water, as in Europe, is called Moguli chá, or the tea of the Moguls, as they call the Persians. But Tibeti chá, or tea as made in Tibet, is a very different composition, for which the following is the recipe for a party of five or six people: a teacupful of the finest green tea is put into three pints of water, and upon this is strewed a large spoonful of soda, and all three are boiled together. About a pound of fresh butter or ghi and a pinch of salt are then placed at the bottom of the milling churn, and part of the boiling contents are poured out and milled like chocolate; a little cream or milk is then added to what has remained in the saucepan, and on this the milled tea is poured and boiled again, and part of it again transferred to the churn, and so on till it is all properly milled. Ahmed Shah. It was always made before or after a march, and on a cold morning I found it, after a little time, quite as palatable as tea made in the ordinary way, and far more nourishing. When well made, it resembles chocolate in appearance, in consequence of the reddish tinge imparted to the tea by the presence of the soda which prevents it also from cloying. Sutu, or the flour of roasted barley, is frequently eaten with it."

I did not find a source that said 藏茶 was the same as Tibeti. But I did find sources that translated 藏茶 into "Tibetan tea":

1. "中国民族 - Issues 1-12" [Chinese Nation - Issues 1-12] (in Chinese). Nationality Tuanjie Journal Publisher. 2009. Retrieved 2022-07-30 – via Google Books.

   The source notes: "日文罗莉迟艳娜藏茶,是指具有悠久历史,与藏民族以及我国西北部蒙古族、维吾尔族、回族、羌族等民族同胞的日常生活有着紧密 ... 2004 年,欧盟茶叶委员会委员芭芭拉女士在雅安考察藏茶生产加工基地时,反复使用“ discover Tibetan Tea ” (发现藏茶)一语来传达自己的惊奇与评价。"

   From Google Translate: "Japanese Lori Chi Yanna Tibetan tea refers to a long history that is closely related to the daily life of the Tibetan people and the Mongolian, Uyghur, Hui, Qiang and other ethnic compatriots in northwestern my country... In 2004, the European Tea Commission member Ba When Ms. Bara inspected the production and processing base of Tibetan tea in Ya'an, she repeatedly used the phrase "discover Tibetan Tea" to convey her surprise and evaluation."

2. Jia, Yangyang; Nie, Zongning; Luo, Xinyu; Yang, Kaihui; He, Chunlei (2021). "外源酶辅助发酵加工藏茶的工艺研究" [Study on processing technology of exogenous polyphenol oxidase assisted fermentation of Tibetan tea]. Acta Agriculturae Zhejiangensis (in Chinese). 33 (9): 1720–1729. doi:10.3969/j.issn.1004-1524.2021.09.16. Archived from the original on 2022-07-30. Retrieved 2022-07-30.
3. Bian, Jin-lin; Guo, Jin-long; Li, Pin-wu; Du, Xiao (2015). "Promoting Effect of Ya'an Tibetan Tea on Pepsin". Journal of Sichuan Agricultural University. Vol. 33, no. 3. Sichuan Agricultural University. doi:10.16036/j.issn.1000-2650.2015.03.007. Archived from the original on 2022-07-30. Retrieved 2022-07-30.
4. Wang, Ning; Zhang, Yujia; Lan, Chaohua; Li, Linman; Zhou, Xiaoli (December 2021). "不同等级藏茶抗氧化活性及抑菌能力对比研究" [Comparative Study on Antioxidant and Antibacterial Activity of Different Grades of Tibetan Tea] (PDF). Journal of Sichuan University of Science & Engineering (in Chinese). Vol. 34, no. 6. Sichuan University of Science and Engineering. doi:10.11863/j.suse.2021.06.06. Archived from the original (PDF) on 2022-07-30. Retrieved 2022-07-30.
5. Gan, Tian; Deng, Yue; Nie, Yuanyang; Wen, Wentin; Li, Wanli; Ma, Fulin; Sun, Qun (January 2017). "雅安藏茶贮藏过程中滋味和风味成分的变化" [Changes of taste and flavor compounds in Ya'an Tibetan tea during storage] (PDF). China Measurement & Test (in Chinese). doi:10.11857/j.issn.1674-5124.2017.01.011. Archived from the original (PDF) on 2022-07-30. Retrieved 2022-07-30.
6. Li, Jie; Wu, Jiale; Tan, Xiaoqin; Lin, Lilan; Guo, Chengyi; Xu, Jingyi; He, Chunlei (2017). "雅安藏茶茶多糖对60Co-γ射线辐照损伤小鼠抗氧化和造血功能的防护作用" [Protective Effects of Ya'an Tibetan Tea Polysaccharide on Mice Antioxidant Function and the Hematopoietic System induced by 60Co-γ Ray Radiation]. Journal of Nuclear Agricultural Sciences (in Chinese). 31 (8). doi:10.11869/j.issn.100-8551.2017.08.1509. Archived from the original on 2022-07-30. Retrieved 2022-07-30.
7. Hu, Yan (2016). "雅安藏茶不影响睡眠与咖啡碱含量的关系研究" [Study on relationship between Ya'an Tibetan tea does not affect people'sleep and the caffeine content]. Science and Technology of Food Industry (in Chinese). 22: 131–136. doi:10.13386/j.issn1002-0306.2016.22.018. Archived from the original on 2022-07-30. Retrieved 2022-07-30.

I think "Tibetan tea" is the WP:COMMONNAME of this topic. I've made some changes to the article and added a "Further reading" section with these sources. I cannot move Tibeti to Tibetan tea since it is already a redirect to Tibetan cuisine#Tea, but if you think a move is the right course of action, this can be listed at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests to ask a page mover to do the move.

Cunard (talk) 22:17, 30 July 2022 (UTC)