Talk:Washburn Guitars

Grammar

poor grammar in Endorsers section could use a touch-up.

Where's the rest of the history?

Big jump from 1883 to rock-star endorsers--which leaves out the four or five decades when Washburn was an important brand name and maintained factories in Chicago. Washburn was a brand owned by Lyon & Healy; the current Washburn organization has little in common with the original beyond ownership of the brand name. There's a lot of interesting guitar and music-biz history around the Washburn brand--certainly more significant than which rocker has a promotion deal with the current trademark owners. Hint: Look at almost any photo of ordinary working stiffs and guitars from, say, 1900-1930. Then look at one of the facsimile Lyon & Healy catalogs or the reproductions in John Teagle's book Washburn and notice the similarities.

BTW, what's the source of the assertion that their guitars are "all hand built"? That is extremely unlikely in today's manufacturing and marketing environment. Statements like this (along with the focus on endorsers) makes the article look more like PR copy than a proper encyclopedia entry.RLetson 22:31, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The big problem with the article timeline is the inference that the Washburn line is a continuous production from 1883 to the present. I'd like to know the dates of the hiatus in production, between cessation of Washburn instruments, and whenever the rights to the name were acquired, and the production of instruments was resumed. It's kind of important, since Washburn shares a prestige aura in American lutherie, as Gibson and Martin. As for guitars all being "hand built", the very nature of lutherie, even in mass-production situations requires a lot of skilled hand-work. I rather doubt Washburn (or any other lutherie) is utilizing advanced robotics to perform the multiple complex operations that the making of acoustic guitars requires, or to outfit the necks of electrics, for that matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.129.162.38 (talk) 05:07, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Weeb Dingle (talk) 22:03, 14 January 2017 (UTC) --

Why is it that everyone is forgetting that sometime around 94'and 95', Rudy Schlectler, representing Washburn before a US Magistrate in a Federal Courthouse, Chicago Illinois, pleaded guilty to several counts of fraud representing Washington Guitars/ Washburn International out of the Buffalo Grove building/ Warehouse, a Chicago area suburb. They were importing guitars from Malaysia and Indonesia and having their workers pull the guitars out of the containers, out of their original boxes, removing the "made-in" labels and replacing them with "made in the USA" labels. US Custom service went in around 1994, I believe it was in the spring and raided the warehouse and completely emptied the building of all of their paperwork and all of the labels that guitar tuners were pulling from these Malaysian and Indonesian guitars, putting them in boxes that said "Made in the USA" on the side. I just don't get it how no one knows about this when there was a huge write-up about it in the Chicago Tribune and the Chicago Sun-Times? It's almost as if someone here is trying to rewrite history or has some kind of an influence on this and having personal knowledge in working with Rudy side by side, I know for a fact that his influence may be a part of that. He was what we call in the business as "a dirty businessman". Let's get the facts straight on this!! 2600:8801:1CAA:6300:BD70:60AF:EB28:7623 (talk) 00:32, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

I am (slowly) attempting to rework this article. For starters, there is ZERO continuity between the L&H "Washburn" brand & its revival in 1978. The brand was sold to Tonk Brothers in the late 1920s, where it languished until faded to nothing no later than 1940.

Any connection to the original brand is an affectation of the modern owners. They have no actual control of designs or techniques or even build data from a century ago.

Complicating matters further, one source says "Washburn" was also a line of beginner-grade import acoustics in the mid-1960s. There's no clear relation of this usage to either main player.

There should be two separate entries. The L&H era can then be fleshed out rather than buried under the preponderance of USM/Loud hype.

As for modern Washburn, much needs to be added, beginning with past endorsers -- to name a few: Gregg Allman, Collective Soul, Heart, Jennifer Batten, Craig Chaquico. The Lines section is full of holes, & should either be cut way back or expanded with notation as to production years & how each is distinctive. And the hype really needs to be cut from mentions of VCC, BFTS, SEC, etc.

Additional Data

I'm a luthier and presently rebuilding a Washburn "New 1897 Model" mandolin. I first called the present day Washburn and had some history explained. The original company went out of business during world war 2. US Music bought the rights to the name only, around 1976. There's your hiatus.

I've been assisted in history, dating and technique by George Gruhn of Gruhn Guitars in Nashville (and his employee Derek). When I contacted the present company and told them of my progress particularly talking to Gruhn, the customer service guy said "then you just spoke with the world's foremost expert on original Washburn instruments. If anyone has questions that's who to go to.

BTW, the New 1897 Model was named for the Chicago exposition which happened the same year as the instrument was introduced. They used that model name until about 1923. Although the numbering is uneven, there are details along with serial number that can be used to date Washburns. The one I'm working on was made between 1903 and 1905. It's called a "Cremetone" and one belonging to the Wright Brothers is one of the very few still in mint condition. It can be found on the web. That should give a few more hooks for anyone wanting to follow up. A fairly complete and detailed accounting of the 'old' Washburns is in a book you can see at http://elderly.com/books/items/49-101176.htm Drmcclainphd (talk) 02:28, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Neutrality

The Voice Contour Control section reads like an advertisement. ImageRaiter (talk) 03:11, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

overhaul underway

I've managed to begin piecing together some fragments that're scattered all OVER the Internet, but I would really appreciate any help in sourcing some points. For instance, I can establish Schlacher as the owner of Washburn Int'l until the end of 2002, but proving how he got to that position is difficult.

Please bear with me as I try to repurpose this white elephant!
Weeb Dingle (talk) 01:26, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Still trying to push tabular data into place. Aside from that, I have located credible (published) sources with clearer information about both the demise of L&H's original Washburn, as well as the brand's resurrection and heyday (including Schlacher's position in the narrative). As I am not at all an expert on the old Washburn, I hope for someone to wander past here who'd like to add some meat to the bare bones I've constructed of the 1864-1940 section.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 07:33, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

relevance to Chicago

Per the notation up top of this page, this article has been found wanting by WikiProject Chicago a.k.a. Chicago Project a.k.a. Wikipedia CHICAGO -- being new here, I'm sorta guessing that these three names refer to the same group.

On an Importance scale with slots Top, High,Mid,Low, NA, and ???, this article has been rated... Stub. So I hope for clarification.

Meantime, I believe the case could be made that this article could readily be made of Low importance, perhaps working up to Medium; this will take a Chicago guitar fan to bring up to speed, and I am not such.

However, I can frame the case. Lyon and Healy came to Chicago to sell sheet music, launched multiple factories in the area, and opened a series of successful retail music establishments that remained to the late '70s. Their operations survived the Great Fire. They began building harps in 1889, and the brand continues today at 168 N. Ogden Ave, "once home to the recording studios of Orlando R. Marsh." Their old central, the Wabash Building, is owned by DePaul. Legend has it that L&H once claimed they were turning out 100,000 instruments per month (mostly Washburn). https://chicagology.com/business/lyonhealy/ http://www.mechanicalmusicpress.com/registry/empress/empress_p01_lyon-healy.htm http://www.mechanicalmusicpress.com/registry/empress/empress.htm

When Rudy Schlacher resurrected the Washburn brand, he kept it in Chicago; when he rolled Washburn into US Music, the USMC headquarters was set in Buffalo Grove. (If you want to see a REAL stub, have a look at the USMC "article.") Washburn maintained their stateside luthiery facility in Chicago from the 1980s to around 2009, where they built short-run, signature, and custom instruments, entertained big-name musicians, and worked on design and prototyping for their main lines.

But this article is about musical instruments, NOT Chicago. I'd suggest the best place for Chicago tales is Chicago, pointing to Washburn Guitars (perhaps with a Chicago-oriented section within) as relevant. I stand ready to assist!
Weeb Dingle (talk) 17:33, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

references & lists: instrument models & endorsers & bears, oh my

I will eventually be dragging some of the tabular data off, in order to reduce clutter. If anyone sees this and is really, really bored, feel free to run with it.

And anyone who wants to leap in and paste reference tags can certainly have at THAT as well.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 23:29, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

The first project is under way, tables being built, data on main page slated for demolition.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 04:40, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Mostly complete. Still need to flesh out sections on mandolin and banjo models; before anyone asks, YES, they belong here, as these were products of the company Washburn Guitars.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 08:33, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

conflicting tales

I had one credible statement that Rudy Schleicher founded The Sound Post (Evanston). Now I have two that it was founded ~1972 by Fritz Tasch. per Grand Piano Haus and per CBS-TV Chicago. That both Schleicher and Tasch are immigrant German violin makers suggests partnership, but the names never occur together in online documents.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 14:41, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Tonk Brothers

per Honky-tonk#Etymology -- One theory is that the "tonk" portion of the name may have come from the brand name of piano made by William Tonk & Bros., an American manufacturer of large upright pianos (established 1881), which made a piano with the decal "Ernest A. Tonk". The Tonk brothers, William and Max, established the Tonk Bros. Manufacturing Company in 1873...
Weeb Dingle (talk) 06:24, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Bill Lawrence

A few guitars are described as having "Bill Lawrence" pickups, with redirect to Bill Lawrence (guitar maker). This is entirely untrue: Lawrence and his eponymous company parted ways in 1984. Therefore, I've modified the references to "Bill Lawrence pickups" in this article.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 23:53, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

addition of MIJ claims

Statements have been added linking Washburn to Yamaki, Daion, etc., with no verifying references offered. I take these under advisement, but they are tenuous and may have to go unless the editor who brought them has substantiation.

At best, Matsumoku (hardly a well-curated article, btw) does say that Washburn Guitars contracted Matsumoku to build some of its electric guitars and basses from 1979 through 1984, however Yamaki was the manufacturer for the Washburn Wing series which share many components with Yamaki-made Daion guitars. There is, of course, no citation offered to support this convoluted statement.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 08:49, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

I've removed the claim as conjectural & unfounded, until a credible source is provided.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 04:47, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

As well, I cut claims that the archtop J-14 and J-15 were USA-made. No source is offered. I will, however, attempt to find MSRPs to validate the "most expensive" claim. Weeb Dingle (talk) 21:53, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

I've looked into the Matsumoku/Yamaki claim, and yet have found no substantiation. However, the only Washburn electric guitars I can see "from 1979 through 1984" are the Wing and Stage families. The Wings were certainly in two tiers; possible that the better (through-neck) tier was Yamaki, hence the Daion similarities, with the bolt-necks from Matsumoku. The Stages seem to follow a similar pattern, with early high-end models and more "affordable" bolt-ons a few years later. Both series ended 1984/1985. Good luck.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 16:25, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

A credible fan source says that the "A models" (1978-1979) were produced in part by Matsumoku as well as another unidentified vendor, and that the "B models" (1979-1981) and some acoustics came from Yamaki.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 14:50, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

I've now removed

Some late-1970s Washburn-branded acoustic guitars were made in Japan by luthier Sadao Yairi and his son Hiroshi. (Their shop built instruments under a variety of labels, and took contract work for brands including Alvarez, which also had a long-standing relationship with Kazuo Yairi, Sadao's nephew.)

as being entirely unproven. The claim is based on a Premier Guitar interview with Jim Smith, who elsewhere says he was mis-heard, and regrets the confusion. Another credible source MUST be found before reverting this.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 14:05, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

pilfered & proud

I was reading random gear articles at the Reverb.com site, and happened to find "Guitar Brands That Came Back From The Dead" (published Hallowe'en week). Of the five featured brands, #3 is Washburn… and I was delighted to recognize significant portions lifted almost directly from Washburn Guitars. It's nice to have had a hand in building something worth stealing! However, I might have to pipe up and twit the author (one Gary Cooper) for not citing Wikipedia at all.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 15:31, 23 November 2018 (UTC)