FeelSunny

Hi everyone

Hi everyone:) Feel free to add comments about my edits and do whatever you like on the page. FeelSunny (talk) 19:06, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Current events disputes

Re: Portal:Current events/2008 October 26

In the quote/POV instance, I didn't realize the apostrophes meant a direct quote. Usually quotation marks are used unless quoting inside another quote. I apologize for that misunderstanding.

"News stories" refers to the sources, as that's what everyone clicks to learn more about the event. If it's in Russian, readers of the English Wikipedia who don't read that language won't understand it. While non-English sources are allowed for article fact verification where an English reliable source is unavailable, Current events is only a short blurb, the linked WP articles are often not updated, and thus its sources should be solely in English. If you find an English-language source, please replace it with that. Otherwise, I would support removing the item.

The "killing 8 civilians" has only been stated by the Syrian government. Everyone else who has stated that is quoting the Syrian government. Thus, just as if the American government stated something which has not been confirmed by independent sources, it should be attributed to its original source. How about this wording? This is the current first 2 sentences of the 2008 Abu Kamal raid article, minus the date. If you'd like, I can replace the current sources with the ones supporting those sentences.

“ The 2008 Abu Kamal raid was an attack carried out by helicopter-borne CIA paramilitary officers and United States Special Operations Forces inside Syrian territory. The Syrian government states that it was an unprovoked "criminal and terrorist aggression" on its sovereignty that left eight civilians dead. ”

TransUtopian (talk) 13:46, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

I made a null edit requesting no further reverts until consensus is achieved, directing people to your talk page, so please reply here rather than on my talk, FeelSunny. By the way, I replied based on some of 85.202.113.34's comments in edit summary, such as "As to the 'occupational forces' - this was not a POV here, this was a quote, link. A '' <= quote sign tells this. Please USE TALKPAGE before you delete articles here." Did you write that? If you didn't, I apologize and I'll write a reply on their talkpage. TransUtopian (talk) 15:28, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Nice to see you here, TransUtopian, I hope we will come to a better understanding of what we should do in News Portal.

I fully understand that it's quite annoying to have a source in a language you can not read. I agree that Russian is not quite the best language for sources on English Wikipedia, and where I can find a source with the same text in English, I include it in an article, not Russian language one.

However, I would say that the rules on the portal do not state only English sources are allowed. The problem with source language is that you will narrow your choice of sources greatly if you make only English allowed. Another problem is that you will have a very strong bias in a case when one side of the conflict translates it's medias, and others do not.

On South Ossetia, I can see many news in English made in Georgia these days, and I fully support Georgians in doing this, for I am really interested to know how they see the war.

Unfortunately, I do not see many sites and newspaper articles in English, made in S.Ossetia or Abkhazia, or Russia. And I know many people will not know how we see this war. If we do not use other language sites as sources, you would never know there is another point of view, but Georgian on cross-border shootouts.

I bet you will not find a Georgian source that will tell you, for example, that an Abkhazian high-ranking counerterror official was killed on the border days after he started investigating Georgian paramilitary attacks there. Maybe in Georgian, not in English. But one may find such information in Russian. Another example: one of Saakashvili former closest allies, famous Georgian politician, former Parliament Speaker, recently created an opposition party calling the regime of Saakashvili 'authoritarian'[7] - here is a translated quote: 'instead of a democratic state, we have got an autorithorian regime'. She is not marginal. She is very much like Julia Timoshenko in Georgia. I searched all the English internet - nothing. But in Russian language, this is link #5 or 6 in Google for 'Burdzhanadze party opposition' query.

Again, portal rules do not encourage using sources in other languages, but also do not prohibit this. They tell 'news stories' in English only, quite clearly - not quotes.

As to civilian death toll in Syria, you say one Syrian source is not enough, that we should consider the body count was made by Syrians only. I agree, that one souurce is not much - but who else could have provide the number? We have to beleive the victim side body count, unless we have any sources proving them wrong. If even the US military provide another body count, I would include it in the article.

Of course, we can include 'The Syrian government states' here. But, firstly, I see no reason to quote Syrian views (does anybody else think it was not a criminal agression?), and, secondly, I see no reasons why we should doubt Syrian count if no source does.

I would propose another edit, slightly restyling your last one:

“ United States Special Operations Forces, stationed in Iraq, launch a cross-border raid in Syria, attacking a civilian building under construction near Abu Kamal, Syria, reportedly killing 8 civilians. ”

I just think that it is shorter and more comprehensive, than naming two agencies. Also I would not quote an ongoing warfare page.

I will check my edits IP and the edits history. In case I violated the 3 edits rule, I let you know. I am afraid that I posted from my work pc without logging in, but I will need to check IP address on my work.

Thank you also for discussing here.

On the usefulness of non-English language sources to readers (like myself) who don't understand that language, I can't find more information about the news item if I don't understand the article, and thus the brief 1 or 2 sentences is all I read. I assume good faith, but I have no context to understand how this event really fits in with the big picture. Thus the item is either meaningless or misunderstood. In a Wikipedia article, a fact supported by a non-English source is surrounded by other facts to place it in context. In Current events, it's one news event among several unrelated ones that occurred that day. Even if part of a larger canvas like the Georgian–Abkhazian conflict, the reader has to try to place the meaning of the event into that conflict without the benefit of the source.

For that reason -- and I thought I'd seen several previous non-English news sources removed before by others but couldn't find evidence on a limited browse, I believe that "news stories" refers to the source links. But I'll bring it up to the Current events editors when I have more time to discuss and research.

As for finding English versions of non-English news stories, have you tried searching Google News, or just Google (Web) Search? This Google News search results in this.

Since no one else has weighed in on the Syria wording, I'll change it to your proposal. However, I would prefer "The Syrian government states". Would that be acceptable to you?

It's not because one source is not enough, but because every source attributes the Syrian government to that number regarding an often hotly discussed event. It doesn't increase word count much to specify the original source.

You didn't violate the 3RR rule, though -- if I am understanding correctly that you are that IP -- you did revert 3 times in a day. By that way, I would have let you know of the conversation linked below as suggested, but was engaged in Real Life by that time. However, I am pleased we are now working this out without reversions. TransUtopian (talk) 07:55, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

TransUtopian, hello again. Thanks for checking the 3RR possible violation, I will not go to work specially to check their IP then (I am on vacation now). I am almost sure that the IP in question was my work computer.

On Russian links - this is a very interesting question. I understand that they are worse as sources than English language ones. I understand also that there is no possibility for non-speaker to place several sentences in context. You also see that we will have strong bias toward the side translating it's information, if we only use English language sources, and narrow events choise for news page seriously.

AFAIK, there are several users with strong command of Russian language (Samogitia, for example), that are absolutely not pro-Russian about war in Georgia. They can be a guarantee of an adequate translation of sources into WikiNews - otherwise these news would not survive their edits. In case the user is really interested in reading content of a source, he may use an online translator.

Overall, I think we may discuss this question very long and not come to a solution. I would propose sticking to the rules, literally understanding what they say about language:

1. [...]list items with news sources[...]
2. News stories must be in the English language; no other languages please.
3. [...] please update the most relevant linked article if it is appropriate.
4. [...] international interest.
5. Do not list the ordinary deaths of prominent persons [...]
6. [...] do not link to subscription-only sites such as AOL or WSJ (except in the unlikely event that a story is covered substantially better there than anywhere else).
7. Please avoid Yahoo! news links, as those URLs are temporary and die quickly! (You can use a search engine to get the original source.)

You see that the rules say nothing about source language. And we have negative freedom in WikiPedia, and a presumption of innocence:)

Plus, let me point the #6 article. It directly allows you to post closed/ subscription (!) links if no other source is possible. Not considering the difference of the nature of the barriers, we have the same case: some can read, some can not, however we post it to make sure we do not narrow our choice of events.

I would not mind you stating Syrian government in the article. But let me say that if you link a report to a person or entity that evokes negative associations, you make the report itself look very much untrustworthy. Syrian government in the West evokes negative associations. Just imagine the difference between 'villagers report', 'Syrian media (which SANA is) reports' and 'Syrian government states' here.

I think writing like that (Syrian government, Afghani government, Iraqi government etc.) is really extenuating the responsibility of the agressor side. Imagine 'U.S. government states that about 3 thousand people died during 9/11 attacks'. Who would need the 'U.S. government' here?

I just thought there is another thing. I think when we start to study several independent sources looking for the initial source of report we are actually doing the original research. Actually we have 10-15 independent sources telling one and the same - 8 dead, all civilians. We should not do the journalists job, I think, only cite sources here. However, I do not mind choosing the variant you proposed, as it seems to reflect the real event.FeelSunny (talk) 10:18, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Good point about #6. I still differ with your view about what "news stories" mean, but I'll try to gain consensus on its meaning later.

The reason I think "Syrian government" should be specified is because all news sources state that the number and civilian nature of deaths originate from there, thus not original research. TransUtopian (talk) 16:02, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

You were discussed

FeelSunny, out of courtesy I would like to let you know that you (among others) were discussed here. Let me know if you would like further info, it quite self-explanatory though.--intraining ^{Jack In} 20:15, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Your edit

Soviet political repression: please keep in mind that your edit may be considered disruption of wikipedia. HOwever if you think you have points, please explain them in the article talk page in detail. Timurite (talk) 16:12, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Whoa)) I have in fact discussed them on the talkpage, however I did not see a word from you on that matter. You should check this. AFAIK, you have just reverted all and other edits saying they are too liberal???? What you do actually amounts to vandalism FeelSunny (talk) 12:16, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

deletion?

Your edit here reverted the addition of a name, not a deletion. --Xeeron (talk) 20:16, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

But where is the source, anyway? FeelSunny (talk) 08:49, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Good question. Also very true for the 2008 South Ossetia war infobox. --Xeeron (talk) 09:24, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Anonymous IPs just come, edit, and then go. No sources, no explanation, just nothing. "Be bold", this is the WP:) FeelSunny (talk) 17:50, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

SEE!

Bet you didn't know... — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:19, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

File:Cheburashka doll.jpg

I hope you realise this picture shows Cheburashka is clearly a Ukrainian nationalist....

He's the cutest in the world Ukrainian nationalist then:)) FeelSunny (talk) 11:02, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I need you to help me out on making some changes about the casualty box in the South Ossetia War article.

I'm kinda newbish to editing Wiki. Thank you. 68.167.1.235 (talk) 21:13, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Edit-schmedit help on SO War article

Hey, I cannot figure out how to make the locations clickable. For location I placed "South Ossetia...Roki Tunnel" but I want to make them clickable, blue not red, and cannot figure out how to do it. I have a B.A. in military history, not Wikipedia editing. Thank you! South Ossetia should lead to South Ossetia, Georgia Proper to Georgia, Abkhazia to Abkhazia, and Roki Tunnel to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roki_Tunnel. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 05:57, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Done. Here is a good guide for working with links, and making them clickable. It makes life easier. Good luck with editing! FeelSunny (talk) 07:06, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank You! HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 09:23, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Arbitration, etc

I believe that certain people on Wikipedia are misinterpreting the Google Rule. Where would I go to clarify what the Google the Rule is? HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 22:49, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Here is a link to WP policies. Naming of articles is explained on this page. Good luck! FeelSunny (talk) 07:33, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Can you take a look at the 2008 South Ossetia War article

There is criciticism of the ISDP source, and a discussion on it, and some editors making edits without even borthering to discuss them first. Thank you. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 22:12, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Finnish War Crimes

Well the Finns have committed a war crime by blocking a city, in order to prevent American food from coming in. Basically the Americans were willing and able to deliver food to Leningrad, but for the Finnish blockade, which could have saved over 600,000 Russians living in Leningrad. Finland is just as guilty as Nazi Germany for these deaths. However, they haven't had an equal amount of blame as Nazi Germany. Maybe, one day someone could write a book on that. However, until then, an article on Wikipedia would be too small on that. Perhaps adding a section about Finnish War Crimes in the World War II article on Civillian Casualties, or something like that. Let me see what you have on Finnish War Crimes thus far. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 07:17, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

User HistoricWarrior is banned from editing at the English Wikipedia.

Comeback! We need for the 2008 South Ossetia Article

Also, I think some of your edits have been undone. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 00:57, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

SO War reverts

Are you sure you reverted the right edits? ([8] and [9]) Looks like you did the opposite of what you wanted to? Offliner (talk) 00:02, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

You're right)) There seems to be some kind of software mistake or I just need to go to bed already. Thanks anyway!FeelSunny (talk) 00:09, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

No prob, it was quite funny. :) Offliner (talk) 00:31, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Sure it was:)FeelSunny (talk) 12:29, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

South Ossetia war title vote

There is a vote up again at Talk:2008 South Ossetia war#Article name vote. Offliner (talk) 22:10, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Your recent post

Please stop making subpages within my userspace to post incivil comments.--Kober^Talk 04:22, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I just chose the wrong section to post it to. The comment was in no way incivil. I won't talk to you ever again on your talkpage, be sure.FeelSunny (talk) 08:29, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

March 2009

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Vladimir Hütt. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 09:02, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Your logic in calling me a vandal after you started the edit war by deleting soursed materials and repeatedly inserting a weasel word "few" are beyond comprehension. So - no comments. FeelSunny (talk) 20:14, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

What's your source on People's Front of Estonia being "nationalistic"? Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 16:42, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

The Anatomy of independence, p.326, and NYT article here. FeelSunny (talk) 06:28, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

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Congratulations!

Congratulations and best of luck to you newly weds! — Mariah-Yulia (talk) 08:04, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations, from me, too. Do you realize, that South Ossetia war page just won't survive without your efforts? How come you didn't think about that before marrying? That was very irresponsible of you, indeed! A person with two academic degrees should have known better! =)) Мда... вот так вот лучшие люди и покидают нас... =)) Ну да это все неважно, главное чтобы у вас было СЧАСТЬЕ, ЛЮБОВЬ и СОГЛАСИЕ! Желаю всего этого вам! =) ETST (talk) 15:28, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

linguistics tangent

You're a linguist? FeelSunny (talk) 07:09, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I hope to become one. ;-) I study general linguistics and pure mathematics. sephia karta | di mi 09:40, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Right choice:) Studying linguistics makes you see many things you have never noticed before. Try the discourse analysis, the modern applied linguistics theory. Where do you study, btw? FeelSunny (talk) 11:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Linguistics at Leiden University and Mathematics in Leiden and at the University of Padua. Are you by any chance also a linguist? sephia karta | di mi 21:38, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

I have a MA in sociology, but I wrote thesis on sociolinguistics - Russian TV News discourse analysis. They are really wonderful as an object of research, you know. How comes you take courses in two places in different parts of Europe at one time? It must be painful to travel all the time between two universities? PS. I propose to get this discussion to my talkpage - this definitely does not have much in common with Sukhumi:) FeelSunny (talk) 06:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree. :-) I don't take courses in both places at the same time, linguistics is taking a break while I am in Padua. Where did you get your MA from? And do you know the Language Log? I highly recommend it. sephia karta | di mi 08:50, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I got an MA from MGU in Moscow. I was born here and wasn't smart enough to go to Europe when I was 16 to get an education there:) And where do you come from? And are you a boy or a girl?:) You're a structuralist?

I have heard of the language log - but never actually read it, will try to take a closer look:) I definitely like this: Eggcorn. Well, I would really like to get back to a science work, but I need to pay my bills yet:( FeelSunny (talk) 09:37, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah, MGU. I always wondered whether it has as Caucasology department, do you know? For syntaxis, we've mostly been doing Generative grammar (specifically the Minimalist program), for phonology Optimality Theory, which I really like as a system. I'm from the Netherlands, and a guy. I read you recently married, congratulations. :-) sephia karta | di mi 10:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Not sure MGU has one. Most of the country's diplomats come from the MGIMO or ISAA faculty of the MGU. They seem to train specialists for Caucasus region too. IMHO, the problem with "caucasology" is that the Caucasus region is quite as complex as the whole Europe (many religions, dozens of ethnoses, languages, completely different mentalities, complicated politics, etc) - how can one be trained as Europeologist?:) And how comes Caucasus is one of your fields of interest?

On Generative grammar et al.: yes, structuralism:) I like the way of structuralist thinking, all clear and logical. But anyway I prefer Functional grammar. I was working much with Discourse analysis and Rhetorical Structure Theory. BTW, functionalism was much influenced by your fellow countrymen, Simon C. Dik, Teun A. van Dijk:) Just like structuralism was much influenced by Russian formalists - Viktor Shklovsky, Yuri Tynianov, etc. FeelSunny (talk) 10:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Discrimination of Russians in Estonia

I know that you don't have much time to edit, but what is your opinion of this: [10]? I think the discrimination claims seem to have some credibility. For example, Amnesty International also thinks the discrimination is a reality. But it's impossible to add material about this subject to History of Russians in Estonia, because it gets immediately removed by a certain group of users. They usually cite WP:UNDUE as the reason for the removal. Therefore, I'm thinking of creating Discrimination of Russians in Estonia. In a separate article the issue could be more thoroughly handled, and it would be more difficult for the group to remove well-sourced material. What do you think? Offliner (talk) 23:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Offliner is not entirely telling the whole story. The only bit being removed is the fringe claim that this alleged discrimination is criminal, see the article talk page discussion. The article Offliner cites is full of errors, like Bäckman being a "Historian" and a "professor", which is not true in either case. I think it would be highly likely that Discrimination of Russians in Estonia would be immediately nominated for deletion as a POV fork. --Martintg (talk) 02:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

You start it, Offliner, and I will help with my five kopecks. But I would rather propose to start a Discrimination of ethnic minorities in Baltic states article. To be clear, it is not monoethnic minority, neither Russian nationals. They are Russian speakers, which are supposedly denied the right to education on the mother tongue, and the right to work and communicate with the authorities without using a translator.

Martintg, there's actually no need to advocate any of the sides, as I perfectly know what are POVed articles and groups of poved users. I also do not think I am not POVed, and strive to articulate my POV (sourced, of course) only where the article is disbalansed or may become disbalansed. Many Baltic articles actually are disbalansed, really. Anyway, I'm thankful for another point of view on this. FeelSunny (talk) 09:37, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

My five kopecks in advance:

Education level \ Ethnic group	Estonians	Non-Estonians
Higher, %	15	15
Specialised secondary, %	20	23
Secondary, %	34	37
Basic , %	23	18
Primary, %	8	7
Total, %	100	100

Income level \ Ethnic group		Estonians		Non-Estonians
		Estonia	Tallinn	Estonia	Tallinn
Higher (5,000+ Estonian Kroons), %		16	25	11	15
Middle (up to 5,000 EEK), %		37	41	37	37
Low (up to 2,500 EEK), %		37	25	42	31
No income, %		10	10	10	17

Source: LEGAL INFORMATION CENTRE FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, "ESTONIAN MINORITY POPULATION AND NON-DISCRIMINATION REPORT 2006", http://www.lichr.ee/new/docs/cerd-final.pdf, pp. 49-52FeelSunny

There is also plenty of interesting data on Estonian economy in terms of ethnicity of workers in different areas, etc. (talk) 10:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Interesting data, but there can be many interpretations. for example, looking at the education levels, one could say that since non-Estonians have a better overall level of education, this is evidence that Estonians are discriminated against in the provision of education by the state, but despite this apparent educational dis-advantage suffered by Estonians, the fact that a larger proportion of Estonians have higher paying jobs is evidence that non-Estonians do not have as strong a work ethnic nor as highly motivated as Estonians to succeed. How's that? --Martintg (talk) 23:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I am quite sure that education levels correspond to the structure of the Soviet Estonia economy: some non-Estonians, who came into the country from other republics to work in science, industry, transport, etc., received before that, of course, better education than the ethnic Estonian average level. So, this is hardly because of discrimination of Estonians in modern Estonia:)

Anyway, definitely the education levels (3-4% difference) do not differ that much as the salary levels do (up to 10-15%). What's worse, a better-educated language minority gets much lower wages. That may also be sourced by some Estonian sources, both in Russian and English languages. And that may be a good illustration that unequal opportunities exist in the state for different ethnic groups.

PS. The argument "non-Estonians do not have as strong a work ethnic nor as highly motivated as Estonians to succeed" is hardly acceptable in any democratic country. FeelSunny (talk) 15:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

The argument might indeed be not acceptable in the sense of political correctness, but this does not mean that it can be discarded as a per se invalid thesis. In fact, differences in work ethics have consistently been found amongst different immigrant populations in the US. We all have cultural background and innate IQ, and these things tend to differ in different groups of people.
As for the Russian-speaking minority in Estonia, it's more like the phenomenon described by authors like Valentin Rasputin - the troubles of rootlessness. Miacek (t) 15:33, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

See also: Protestant work ethic. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 13:00, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Dear Διγουρεν, if in XXI century you support Weber's early XX century view on "why" protestants became so successful until the Victorian era, I propose you to broaden the sources sample with the works of Francis Galton, FRS, from the Victorian era itself. A perfect theory on why protestants should not marry some inferior peoples, e.g. Italians, Indians and so on. Racial hygiene, you know. Then please go and explain why are the protestant USA totally owned by the much less protestant People's Republic of China. Please also explain why there are 9 protestant states in the list of 20 with the highest rate of debt vs. GDP? Finland included. And Estonia - in June 2007 - had 86.51% of external debt vs. GDP. Just like Latvia. Russia had 17%. Maybe the reason is not at all protestant work ethic? FeelSunny (talk) 18:17, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

PS. Sorry, the USA are not totally owned, only 99.95%. Though the Great Britain is owned 3,5 times. And, according to the late 2008 data, Estonia's external debt is 145%. Going in the right direction, huh?

Bah! You're just jealous for not being one of those industrious Protestants!

You know what. I'll let you into a secret. I'm not really a Protestant, I'm an atheist. But I still won't marry you. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 13:57, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

*Yawn*. I'm married. FeelSunny (talk) 11:50, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

My point was that there can be any number of interpretations of the employment numbers, spanning from discrimination to lower work ethnic, but the real reasons lay somewhere in between. Your explanation of the difference in education levels, i.e. "correspond to the structure of the Soviet Estonia economy: some non-Estonians, who came into the country from other republics to work in science, industry, transport, etc., received before that, of course, better education than the ethnic Estonian average level" points to one reason why the employment figures are different: the collapse of the Soviet Union saw the collapse of Union level enterprises that these non-Estonian were imported to work in, leading to a large number of highly qualified specialists forced to work in lower paying jobs outside their area of training. A second reason for the difference is more contemporary: many Russian-speakers had found work in the transit trade business between Russia and Europe, due to their natural language skills, but Russia through a combination of trade sanctions and redirected transit of goods through her own ports, has meant these non-Estonians have been hit hard as the transit trade business in Estonia collapsed.

As you can see, there are a number of reasons for the difference in employment numbers:

1. the collapse of union level enterprises,
2. the collapse of the transit trade business,
3. insufficient language skills,
4. a sense of rootlessness leading to lower motivation

This is why the Amnesty International report was criticized as a bad piece of work, because it simplistically looks at only one reason, while ignoring the other equally valid reasons. --Martintg (talk) 02:45, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

FeelSunny, if you start the article, follow the format of this article and it won't get deleted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_States. If people try deleting it, ask them to also delete this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Russia_during_the_2000s. I predict hilarity. Also, Martintg, don't you dare use the argument that one race is better then another in any way, shape or form, or else you'll get reported for racism. Saying "the fact that a larger proportion of Estonians have higher paying jobs is evidence that non-Estonians do not have as strong a work ethnic nor as highly motivated as Estonians to succeed" can get you warned right off the bat for racism. What you are saying is that one race is better then another race.

FeelSunny, I don't actually have time to do all the searching for that article, but I can go to the talk page and check all of the "POV Warriors". With patience, we can do it. And the most important thing, congratulations on getting married!!!HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 02:55, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I never suggested any such thing, I was merely demonstrating how easy it is to contrive all sort of different reasons from a set of numbers. --Martintg (talk) 04:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for clearing it up. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 01:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree, Martintg. At the same time, statistics like this are a much better and more objective source for demonstrating inequality exists, or does not exist in any given country. FeelSunny (talk) 06:51, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

About the article name, you suggested Discrimination of ethnic minorities in Baltic states, but I only have material about Estonia, so I'd call it Discrimination of ethnic minorities in Estonia for now. Maybe it can be renamed or expanded later. Offliner (talk) 10:06, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Offliner - ok, Estonia may well become a subarticle of a larger, mother-earticle. I will help with the work as much as I can.

HistoricWarrior007 - thanks for the congratulations!!:)

Overall, I do not beleive this has something to do with racism. I will explain why:

When we speak of racism in Russia or the US, we mean there are several righ-wing radical marginal groups, who beleive white race, and Christians, are better than the others. Both articles given are about non-official, oppressed, and small groups.

Concerning Estonia: racism is not the case. Actually, if you check the ethnic history, you will see that Estonians are (linguistically, ethnically) Finno-Ugric people, which places them much quite far from the racist ideal of the "White Nordic Race".

In Estonia minorities face oppression on another level: official, state-driven and on a larger scale:

1. The right of native language use is denied across the country, which is not the case of Russia or US,
2. The right for work and decent payment is restricted to Estonian-speakers, which is not the case of Russia and US (less jobs than share of R-speaking population)
3. The right to receive education is restricted (less places for Russian-speakers than necessary), etc.

This is not racism, more like a discrimination, just like gender discrimination, age discrimination, etc.

So, in my opinion, the name "Discrimination of ethnic minorities" is better itself, may be sourced better, and corresponds to the WP naming policies better. FeelSunny (talk) 12:03, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Well discrimination in the United States was government driven. It wasn't driven by the national government, but rather by the local governments. In Estonia it's driven by the national gov't. However Russian is a race. The national government of Estonia is discriminating against, (although I do want to see the evidence here) against the Russian race. Hence it's racism. Also, racism articles already exist, like the US one I linked to, so it'll be easier to establish using precedent. Your proposed title doesn't exist, so it will be establishing a new precedent. Do you see what I'm getting at? HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 01:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

No, Russian is definitely not a race, it is ethnicity. As well as Estonian are not a race. Indo-European is a race. Negroid is a race, etc. If you speak in terms of gene heritage, Estonians are of Finno-Ugric peoples (judjing by their language), a branch of the Mongoloid race. Russians are Slavs, from the Indo-european ("Caucasian") race, as most other europeans are.

There are different POVs on ethnicity. I beleive ethnicity is not a matter of blood and genes. It is rather a matter of language, culture and faith, in some cases. To be Russian, you do not necessarily need a surname ending with "-ov" or "-ev". You need to be speaking Russian, love, say, Pushkin or Dostoevsky, watch "17 moments of spring", etc. To be, e.g. an Estonian, you need to beleive in Soviet occupation of Estonia and (maybe) in Protestant supremacy. Ethnicity is culture, I think. FeelSunny (talk) 12:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

FeelSunny - I agree with you. Let's give it a try, although I predict the POV Warriors will be rallying at that article. Put your goggles on and get your towel. (Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy reference.) HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 02:01, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I have now created an initial version at Discrimination of ethnic minorities in Estonia. But this is just the start and it needs a lot of work. Offliner (talk) 02:18, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

sandbox

What kind of structure are you proposing? Offliner (talk) 13:53, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Based on rights limited and not on sources. FeelSunny (talk) 13:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Right to education

Right to education is a fundamental right set out by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The Declaration requires the technical and professional education made generally available and higher education be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit. According to the Declaration, parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

Estonia is a signatory to the Declaration. The Constitution of Estonia guarantees that everyone has the right to education, and that parents have the final decision in choosing education for their children. It also guarantees everyone have the right to instruction in Estonian, and that educational institutions established for minorities shall choose their own language of instruction.

From 2007, Estonian authorities started a program of Estonization of Russian-language high schools in the country, with the aim of 60% of the lessons in previously Russian-language schools to be taught solely in Estonian. The reform caused protests of Russophone minorities, both teachers and school kids, but the then-rime Prime minister Indulis Emsis called the protests "the fruit of suspicion and fantasy" and denied any changes in the government's policy towards minority language education. According to the Secretary of the Estonian Russian language teachers association, Andrey Krasnoglazov, there exists serious lack of teachers with good knowledge of Estonian, and result in deteriorating quality of education in minorities schools.

At present time, according to Amnesty International, the members of the Russian-speaking minority find themselves de facto excluded from the educational system. The amendment of the Law on Basic and Up-per Secondary Schools in April 2001 implies that from 2007 the Russophone minority is no longer guaranteed education in their mother tongue, Russian. The quality of education in the Russophone schools is not as good as in the Estonian schools due to the lack of qualified teachers and poor translations of Estonian terms and textbooks (OSI, 2001).

Leonard Orban, European Commissioner for Multilingualism, noted in 2009 that while one third of the Estonian population are of ethnic non-Estonian origin, numbers of learning for all languages other than Estonian and English continue to fall.

edit summaries

Please do not put up wrong edit summaries. A very simple look at the edit diff show that this info is not sourced. All the edit did was put a link to some propaganda movie in the article. --Xeeron (talk) 18:58, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Editing survey

Hey FeelSunny. I noticed that you were very involved in editing the article and I was hoping to get your thoughts about your experience there. I am a doctoral student at Indiana University. I am conducting research on the writing and editing of high traffic current events articles on Wikipedia. I have noticed in the talk page archives at 2008 South Ossetia war that you have contributed to the editing or maintenance of the article. I was hoping you would agree to fill out a brief survey about your experience. This study aims to help expand our thinking about collaborative knowledge production. Believe me I share your likely disdain for surveys but your participation would be immensely helpful in making the study a success. A link to the survey is included below. An explanation of my project is included with the survey.

Link to the survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=kLMxj8dkk_2bls7yCBmNV7bg_3d_3d

Thanks and best regards, Mike Lyons lyonspen | (talk) 22:31, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok. FeelSunny (talk) 08:23, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

MAKS 2009

Hello FeelSunny!

I want to state one question to you: From August 19th until August 23rd the MAKS Airshow takes place again in Zhukovsky, near Moscow. Do you have the time to go there in order to take a lot of photos? Would be unique contribution for Wikimedia. I hope your response is positive. Greets, High Contrast (talk) 18:15, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

buying $

The SO war talk page is not the right place to discuss this, but, please, do some basic research before saying nonsense about topics you don't know. Like, google "buying dollars". Or read the wiki page on currency exchange. Or a first year macro text book. Or any financial newspaper. I surely hope you knowledge about the articles you edit is better than this. --Xeeron (talk) 19:24, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you ask me next time to google for "selling soul"? Over 90 million hits, BTW. This kind of commerce sure exists, unless it's some kind of a freaking thing called trope, more exactly a metaphor.

And next time, before you come to my TP to speak of saying nonsence, go check the dictionary and see that "exchange" is not a synonym of "buy".

To make sure you understand: when you said that China is buying dollars, you were completely wrong. China is neither buying dollars, nor exchanging its' Yuans for them. China is selling it's goods for dollars. Beleive me, I really regret that someone may lack common sence to such extent that he would take a process of selling consumer goods for currency for the process of "buying currency".

PS. When you would look for metaphors and trops on WP, be sure to check another trop's page, namely the Irony's article. And then be sure to answer other arguments - on all the three sources from the outside of the West, that you found not fitting your Wikipedia. FeelSunny (talk) 21:01, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

You might feel that it is against common sense, but that is the way financial markets talk about it. If you aquire dollars there, you "buy dollars". It might be against your common sense, but that doesn't make it impossible. --Xeeron (talk) 20:02, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh boy:)) FeelSunny (talk) 09:12, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah FeelSunny, if you acquire something, you buy it, what don't you get? Because you see there's no other way to acquire other then buy, you can't get it from inheritance, or barter, or as an honor, or from speculation....So remember, when your wife gives birth and you acquired the child, according to Xeeron's philosophy you bought that kid and he's your slave. Sarcasm aside, China's in engaging in speculation and prospecting on the dollar, an act which George Washington didn't consider buying, but what is he next to our HRM Academic? Damn I gotta stop saying sarcasm aside, it just never works, I say it, and then I still get sarcastic. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 04:41, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

There are two important thing Xeeron fails to understand about this: "bying" here is a metaphor, and any currency is not a commodity, bacause it does not meet one commodity criteria: irreplaceability. US can print as much dollars as they wish. But you can not extract infinite amounts of oil, or gold, or timber, or cotton, or baby toys, etc. As to the last three commodities, their prices remain constant, because you need to pay the same value for the labor you need to produce them. FeelSunny (talk) 10:17, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Moi Otvet

I like to respond on my talkpage, to keep it all in one place for the reader. I hope my response makes you feel sunny! HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 21:20, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Cheer Up

Наше имя - короткий удар штык-ножа, Что вгрызается в тело упруго... Бээмдэшки взревут на крутых виражах, Прорываясь сквозь слякоть и вьюгу.

Наше имя - "спецназ" - словно трассеров свист В южном небе над городом спящим. А восход над хребтом так обманчиво чист, Что не верится пулям свистящим.

Залит кровью поэтом воспетый Кавказ, В сердце ненависть врезалась жалом. Но дорогу ей грудью закроет спецназ - От беды нам бежать не пристало.

Здесь забыта любовь, и лишь кровная месть Распаляет безумием души. Президенты всё лгут, прочь отринута честь... Что им стоит присягу нарушить?!

Но последние силы собрав, мы идём - Трижды прокляты, преданы всеми... И в руках пулемёт захлебнётся огнём, Разрывая пространство и время.

Здесь без права на жизнь, без пощады война. С грязью смешана дружба народов... Но однажды - очнётся родная страна. Только мы не придём из похода.

1992.

There are times when everything seems hopeless. But if you keep on fighting, you will win. It was written in 1992. It was published after the 2008 South Ossetian War. Things change. Don't give up. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 00:21, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

FYI

Did an actual mini-research on the response to the war. Initially there was a plan for a potential intervention in Georgia. However it quickly dissolved, as the US and UK were only able to rally Azerbaijan, Canada, Baltic States, Norway, Poland and Sweden to Georgia's defense, and with the US forces outstretched, it quickly became obvious that such a force was not enough to force another Crimean War against Russia. Australia, Austria, Israel, Ireland, Japan, Romania and Ukraine took mildly pro-Georgian positions, but would have stopped short of armed intervention. Meanwhile France was hard at work building a neutral coalition with Finland, Iceland, Benelux, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Spain, Serbia, Croatia, Moldova and The Vatican. China and Brazil also expressed neutrality. These nations wanted to use political pressure against Russia, but had no long term economics sanctions in mind. Meanwhile Germany, India, Greece and Turkey joined the neutral coalition, but hinted at supporting Russia's viewpoint. Meanwhile Belarus, Bosnia, Cuba, Italy, Iran, Kazakhstan, Nicaragua, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Venezuela joined Russia and were ready to fight, but this happened around the 10th, and the Russian Army destroyed Georgia's military infrastructure before any of these could intervene. NATO fell apart in the response, with members being all over the map. The EU primarily stood for neutrality, and made a tough negotiator, pulling off a successful bluff. Meanwhile the US and UK interests, for the first time, were largely ignored. From the look of things today, certain countries, such as Israel and Ukraine gravitated towards the neutral camp. The war also shattered Georgia's hopes of ever joining NATO, with France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Greece and Benelux countries presenting a strong veto-coalition. Saakashvili can try to last until 2013, but Obama isn't fond of losers. In Ukraine, this war damaged Yushenko's political party beyond repair, so after the next Ukrainian election, the relations between Ukraine and Russia will finally improve. Anyways, I just thought you might be interested. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 08:07, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

• You probably disagree, but Adam Michnik said that "Patriotism is the amount of shame felt for crimes committed in the name of nation".Biophys (talk) 04:12, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Patriotism is being a realist, while trying to help out your nation. You act based on logic, not on feelings. If your leader is a dumbfuck, who allies with other dumbfucks, you have to call him out, and show the rest of the World that not all of your countrymen are like him. I was about to go volunteer to fight in Afghanistan, but then Bush invaded Iraq, and I though "is this a real war, or politics?" I feel no shame for America as a whole, just sometimes Americans elect morons to office, Buchanan, Bush, Nixon, etc, and they have to be called out. And with a multi-polar World, if America and Russia keep fighting, then both countries will be screwed, and you can start learning Mandarin. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 19:20, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you, Biophys, feel ashamed for the US then? The nation that have commited the most crimes in the human histroy in the name of itself, probably. All these patriotism talks like yous just stink, frankly. They stink when you read them on BBC Russian, on NYT or FT pages, when you hear them in Israel, or in Great Britain, or in the US - all this shit from a bunch of disgusting shamming losers without real feel of their own ethnos - to say the least. What you do is get head over heels about being patriotic when you need this and get mad about others being patriotic when you need it not. But being a noble man means you do not feel yourself the one chosen and your nation the best and most beloved by the God. Being a noble - and just decent - man means you know others have just the same right to feel patriotic and to love their people and nation no matter how much you dislike this nation. So get out of my internets, Biophys, I just do not want to read these shitty remarks on my TP. Everyone has a right to be a patriot, no matter how you, a man without a patria, dislike it. And in no way do I expect any further discussions on this. FeelSunny (talk) 22:02, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

No, I do not feel ashamed of anything, Russia or US. I only feel pity for my fellow Russian compatriots. My comments were mostly about poetry by Krylov above. I happened to like other poetry, such as this describing funeral of Stalin:

Вперед, вперед, свободные рабы,

достойные Ходынки и Трубы!

Там, впереди, проходы перекрыты.

Давите, разевайте рты, как рыбы.

Вперед, вперед, истории творцы!

Вам мостовых достанутся торцы,

хруст ребер, и чугунная ограда,

и топот обезумевшего стада,

и грязь, и кровь в углу бескровных губ...

Вы обойдетесь без высоких труб!

Спрессованные, сжатые с боков,

вы обойдетесь небом без богов,

безбожным небом в клочьях облаков.

Вы обойдетесь этим черным небом,

как прежде обходились черным хлебом.

До самой глубины глазного дна

постигнете, что истина — черна.

Земля среди кромешной черноты

одна как перст, а все ее цветы,

ее высокий купол голубой —

цветной мираж, рассеянный Трубой.

Весь кислород Земли сгорел дотла

в бурлящей топке этого котла!

I wish you all the best.Biophys (talk) 01:47, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

In that case, you may leave Biophys. FeelSunny, Biophys was calling me unpatriotic in a veiled way. Don't worry, it doesn't bug me, I've heard it many times when I opposed the Iraqi War. At first it hurt, but after a few years, you just realize the difference between the Nationalists and the Patriots and ignore the former. Biophys is clearly a Nationalist. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 07:24, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Byophys, I met men like you before. They feel they are the voice of God in this world. One can not speak with them - for you should only listen to God, and never talk back. These people just do not understand they can be wrong, and you can not persuade such a man. So be what you want to be, but please stay away from my conversation with HW007, for I do not want to talk with you. Again, I do not want you to be in this discussion. Consider it a private one. FeelSunny (talk) 21:15, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

OK, I will stay away. But I am making mistakes (which means to be wrong) and fix some of them every day, just like everybody else.Biophys (talk) 02:24, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Interesting how Biophys uses the poem, to say that "if you don't share my view - you are a slave!" Damn, I gotta admit something to you FeelSunny, my "slavery" rocks :D HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 05:59, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, there are many people that like to see patriotism in such a way: "if you like Russia, then die, old stalinist bastard"... Me, I feel in no way offended by the country and see absolutely no reason to not be grateful to it - at least for my free higher education, and my postrgraduate, and possibility to earn enough by working on a fair job. Can not see why I am a slave, or a stalinist, actually. FeelSunny (talk) 12:57, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Previously, he was writing not about "slaves", but about KGB Internet Troll Squad. Watch the divine Creator in action. Vlad fedorov (talk) 07:02, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

“Initially there was a plan for a potential intervention in Georgia. However it quickly dissolved, as the US and UK were only able to rally Azerbaijan, Canada, Baltic States, Norway, Poland and Sweden to Georgia's defense.″ I wonder which might be HistoricWarrior's sources, because I can hardly imagine armed personnel of the neutral Sweden taking part in US-led military intervention, if that is what he really meant here --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 07:26, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe the article speaks about NATO and others' intervention in Georgia? What is a "neutral" Sweden? It is not a NATO member - does it make it neutral? Is Russia neutral then? Is Georgia? Sweden has a nice army, and it was in no way neutral during the conflict. Not more neutral than Belorus, for example. FeelSunny (talk) 19:08, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello HattoriHanzo, aka, Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog. Have you changed your IP address? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.64.228.100 (talk) 10:51, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

He still has the dog :P HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 22:14, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Umm, have you read any of the statements "neutral" Sweden made? Here's one "neutral" statement: Swedish Minister for Foreign Affairs Carl Bildt said in a statement that the crisis is due to "provocations from the South Ossetian side" and that the Georgian forces are trying to "restore the constitutional order", and that the Russian bombing of Georgia is "very worrying and will demand a forceful reaction from the United Nations and the European Union." Does that sound neutral to you Hanzo? Or did you think that Saakashvili believed that he could hold his own against Russia in a war? I mean nobody expected the Russians to rout the Georgians in 5 to 8 days, but without an intervention the attack was hopeless.

Since you seem clueless as to how an actual neutral country acts, here's the Swiss example: "The Government of Switzerland called for a political solution to the conflict in Georgia in accord with international principles: Both Georgia's right to sovereignty and the democratic will of the people in South Ossetia and Abkhazia have to be respected. A government spokesman also stated "Switzerland regrets that a solution has not yet been found that meets the United Nations Charter, the Helsinki Accords and the Charter of Paris. The Swiss government has not yet discussed the issue of independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. It also did not mention the territorial integrity in the context of Georgia.""

Most countries followed the Swiss model of reaction to the war. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 22:14, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

This TP looks more like a forum to me:) FeelSunny (talk) 19:08, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Since this page is so popular... Here's the US Green Party's response to the conflict: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63KqDC0DKFs And here's Ron Paul: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuAuPXYT8No And Dana Rohrabacher, from California: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIZu-rLLtlY :D HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 22:28, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Imageees

Thank you for your work on reducing the images and trying to keep them balanced out in the 2008 South Ossetia War Article. Good job! Keep it up! Also, I am thinking about doing Colchicum's quote as part of Wikipedia's greatest hits; I mean the guy actually thought that an image by South Ossetia's Hack Crew is copyrighted. Now that was funny :D Apparently some people think hacking conversations go like this:

"Son, we gotta hack this computer here!"

"But dad, we gotta copyright our image, that we are going to illegally put in!"

HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 20:34, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Well:) They might want to credit the image to themselves so the brave spec.service guys know where to hit next time. They might be a masochists hack crew, after all, why not? Maybe they do like this in Georgia, who knows?:))FeelSunny (talk) 20:46, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think that's how it's done in Georgia; Most Georgians I've interviewed opposed this idiotic war. Yet, there were some who supported it. Here's the "brilliant" logic: "Russia never lost a war on De Facto Russian soil when their army is ably led!"

"Great, let's forget about the military target that's the Roki Tunnel, focus on slaughtering civilians instead, leave no read guard, and attack Russia on De Facto Russian soil. What could possibly go wrong?"

Or another one: "we got Russian bombardment moving in a north to south pattern, the bombs have just exploded north of us. Clearly the area is safe for filming. Let's go film near an ammunition dump with a tank battalion nearby! What could possibly go wrong?" Sometimes I'm worried about the human race. Thankfully there are the Darwin Awards. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 08:29, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

You know, when I listen to you, you sometimes sound too enthusiastic about the war. But I dislike the very idea of the war b/w any post-Soviet atets. Russians and Georgians should have never fired at each other, it's just plain wrong, and older people from both sides do not understand how could this happen. What's worse, younger people, like you and me, just go chatting about this like there's nothing surprising Georgia and Russia are at war. It's just very freaking sad state of affairs around my country, in Georgia, and in our minds. It should be mended, not further deteriorated by my country's, or Georgians' actions.

I know we did the right thing when we intervened in August 2008, but how on Earth did we allow Saakashvili to start the war from the beginning? Why didn't we intervene on full scale in 1991, when we could without any doubts stop the conflicts in both Abkhazia and SO? I just do not understand what do those people in Kremlin think sometimes, or do they think of the former USSR republics at all...

The problem is there is no state on former Soviet territory free from the ethnic conflicts threat. In Europe, Caucasus, or Asia, every former Soviet republic faces this threat. For up to 1990, ethnic balance in most of them was created and sustained mostly artificially. Azeris hate Armenians, Moldovans dislike Pridnestrovan Russians, Crimean Russians do not want to live in Ukraine, Baltic states have 30% non-citizen resident population, Russia has Caucasus separatists, Asian "-stans" each have influental and hostile ethnic minorities, plus drug local lords and "mujaheddins" from Pakistan.

So I do not understand, how could we just let it go in 1991, and withdraw without any guarantees from all those zones of possible ethnic conflicts. In 1991 noone would say a word if we intervene on full scale in "-stans", or Karabah, or Abkhazia, but we could have stopped the massacres in every one of these conflicts. We did not. Now we are back and strong enough (I hope), but the conflicts have worsened, and really much. That is our greatest mistake, I beleive.

We had a choice before 2008, to go there in CIS, or to stay inside Russian borders, and just ask all Russians to come back from ethnic states of former CIS. To develop economy, to build a real democratic state, fight corruption here. I thought, in 2007, when Medvedev was elected, that would he get a 5 years of normal life and economy, he would get the country to the West. Now I understand, we would not have this chance, b/c of the crisis, but also b/c of this war. We now have only one choice: to go into CIS politics once again, and we would have to spend much resources on CIS once again. I do not want it, really.

Plus, the "hawks" party in Russia might get stronger after the war, I'm afraid. Noone needs a "hawk" economy in Russia once again - we've had enough of it in USSR, and it does not work. What we need are deep structural reforms, but wars like this make always make reformators weaker, and hawks stronger.

To sum up, I dislike the ambigous nature of our foreign policy. We should have stopped the conflicts from the very beginning, in a forceful and effective manner, or we shopuld have not intervere at all, and concentrate on building the strong country, like France did after Algiers, or UK did after 1945.FeelSunny (talk) 08:59, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm not at all enthusiastic about warfare. But sometimes it is necessary, and I am enthusiastic about the victories of necessary wars. The problem here is that under the Soviet Union, there was no sense of rabid nationalism. I remember a good quote from Shaov's song: "in terms of ethnicities, USSR is like Heaven, united". However, under the guise of "Freedom of Speech" and "Democratic Reforms", Nationalism was used to tear apart the USSR. Just think about it for a second, why did the USSR fall apart? Everyone knows it's not the War in Afghanistan. Nor were there massive shortages of necessities. The instance after the USSR fell apart, ethnic conflicts, based on sheer racism, erupted. Meanwhile, massive Western Corporations made billions off of Russia and the former Soviet Republics. Remember when Putin began receiving bad press? It was after he kicked Chevron out of the Kamchatkan Peninsula.

Could Russia have intervened more then Russia did in 1991? You're a Muscovite, don't you remember the time period when Mafia Ruled? What could Russia have done? Russia was weak Internationally, and that allowed Serbia to be bombed into submission by NATO. The Russian Government that let it go in 1991 was a government of corruption. If you want to study similarly corrupt governments, you have but to look at Pinochet in Chile, Contras in Nicaragua, etc. But don't you remember what was going on in Russia in the 1990's? I remember very vividly, how Yeltsin was "Democratically" elected in 1996.

Even if all Russians moved to Russia, you could still have occasional raids against Russia from the Caucasian Region. Remember the Dagestan War? What choice did Russia have? Russia had to fight, to defend South Ossetia. But, what Russia does now is upto Russia. No one has to go "full-scale" into the CIS states.

There are some things I like about Russia, and others that I dislike. But I'd rather have you send me an e-mail, historicwarrior7@yahoo.com - to go in depth about what I think about Russia's current state of affairs. And that way you can go into more details about Hawks and Reformators. Another thing that I want to say, is that I am beginning to see, finally, the people standing up to the government. For instance, no one in the US that I know wanted to go to war with Russia, especially after they found out who the initial attacker was. In Europe it was similar. Furthermore support for the Iraq War in the US is virtually non-existent. People are tired of warfare, and Al Qaeda has yet to be defeated, so that's where the US must focus its efforts. There's no more talk of invading Iran. It's an interesting shift, a year ago, mass media screamed for war with Russia, today it's just "don't trust dem Russkis". There was even an article where Russia received a positive review, and the Russian Orthodox Church is getting acknowledgments for providing Humanitarian Aid to Gori. Anyways, send me an e-mail, I don't bite :P And that way I could go into more detail about my degree, which I'd rather not do on Wikipedia. Let's just say I don't like Ivory Towers, and I don't think one should have to hide behind degrees to make an argument. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 08:52, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Re: User Reenem

For your info, see Talk:Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion#Unconstructive_edits_2009-08-31 PeterWD (talk) 23:35, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I basically agree with what you say, though I do not see a big problem with Reneem (yet).FeelSunny (talk) 10:01, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Poetry

Hello FeelSunny,

You asked me a question about poetry at the arbitration talk page. But that was wrong place. Would you like to talk with me about this here? Yes, I like Russian poetry.Biophys (talk) 01:52, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Привет, я по-русски, если не возражаешь (возражаете?). Что же было все-таки не так с этим стихотворением, по твоему мнению? FeelSunny (talk) 15:31, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

As everything in art, this can be best explained by analogy. Do you remember song "Future belongs to me" in Cabaret (film)? I do not really see good analogies in old Soviet art. Maybe "gvozdi by delat' iz etix ludei, v mire by ne bylo krepche gvozdei" (I do not have Russian keybord handy).Biophys (talk) 23:08, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Byophis, right now, I do not see any sense in discussing the 30ies poetry. This is not about Stalin socart, the discussion was about one very certain poem.

I have several questions:

• What was wrong with sharing a poem on my TP?
• Why did you made a conclusion in the evidence section that this poem was a reason "why Offlier, FeelSunny and HistoricWarrior007 are conducting edit wars in 2008 South Ossetia war and other related articles"?
• What made you think the poem "celebrates actions by Russian mercenaries in Ossetia"? Why did you state that this is about "mercenaries" - in the evidence section?
• Why did you state that he was from "Nashi" - again, why on the evidence page?

Please answer these simple questions before making any comparisions with Stalin time. Thanks.FeelSunny (talk) 15:39, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

The spetsnaz soldiers mentioned in the song officially acted in the previous Ossetian conflict on their own risk, as far as I know. Hence the "mercenaries". I believe that song was placed by HistoricWarrior007 to mobilize you and Offliner for edit war in Ossetian war articles. I am talking about the lessons of history and the damage from totalitarian art.

Sorry, I thought you love Russian poetry, and we can find common language here. But it does not work.Biophys (talk) 16:16, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

" Апрель 1992. В ночь на 25 апреля Часть российских войск в Южной Осетии - дивизия Внутренних войск им.Дзержинского без объяснения причин перешла из Цхинвальский район в соседний район в Грузии (видимо, по договоренности между Ельциным и Шеварднадзе). " In April 1992 there was a division of Russian army stationed there. In accordance with Georgian president's wish.

" 20 июня 1992. Э.Шеварднадзе выступил с заявлением, что российские войска воюют на стороне сепаратистского режима в Южной Осетии. " In 1992 Shevardnadze claimed Russian army is fighting alongside South Ossetians.

So how do you tell me in 1992 Russian spetsnaz was not there officially?

Frankly, what I see from you, looks very much like trolling. And I really hope that it is just trolling and I do not talk with a person that sees world in such a way.FeelSunny (talk) 18:58, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

What trolling? You asked me a question at arbitration talk page about Russian poetry. I asked at your talk page if you want to talk about this. You said "yes". Now you are telling "no". Sure, no problem.Biophys (talk) 23:23, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for never answering my questions. Your way of discussing matters is awesome.FeelSunny (talk) 17:45, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I corrected my evidence per your comment about дивизия Внутренних войск им.Дзержинского (that's important). I asked only about poetry, because Ossetian war is the last thing I want to discuss with you. Now I realize that you do not like Russian poetry because you deleted all quotes from your talk page including the writings by famous Pavel Kogan. Only the last quote about the girl was written by a less famous poet, Panchenko; also a highly gifted man and WWII hero.Biophys (talk) 19:33, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I cut the quotes because they had nothing to do with the song we were discusing. I did not want to discuss all Russian poetry on my TP, but only to get strait to the point. As to the Russian poetry itself, I would like to discuss it, but can you provide any example that would not promote any points? Just some good verses?FeelSunny (talk) 20:07, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

No responce. Not surprising.FeelSunny (talk) 12:02, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Ukrainian tanks for Georgia

File:Cheburashka doll.jpg

Picture of a Ukrainian tankdriver Russian elefantobear from Siberia wearing a captured Dynamo Kyiv away outfit:)
Thay've killed Kenny! Bastards!

Ukraine will hand Georgia 12 of there T-84 tanks in October (2009). Should this be mentioned in any of the 15.000 South Ossetia war articles? Wasn't sure myself cause I think it isn't the business of the Russian Government but then again there was controversy about Ukraine supposed to deliver military stuff during the war...

Thanks for complementing my editor-skills, but I barley speak 20 words of Ukrainian, let alone Russian... Thank god for Google translate... — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 14:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Cheburashka is from Soviet times, yes, but I wouldn't call him a Ukrainian, really:) He's too Russian for it:) As to the tanks - so what? Yuschenko's farewell gift. Would it help Georgians to fight better next time? I hope there would be no next times. And I'm not sure if we need to add this source to 2008 SO war article. FeelSunny (talk) 17:54, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Documentary film-maker working for TV Center
Savik Shuster discussing 2040 Galician Presidential elections
(just kidding, please don't take offence, Mariah-Yulia)

It's no secret that Ukraine had been delivering weapons to Saakashvili before the war. The latest delivery, I think it should eventually be added in some article (maybe Georgia-Russia relations?), but it's not urgent. Offliner (talk) 18:02, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Update: Ukraine's industrial policy minister on Friday the 13th November has denied the sale. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 19:14, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

MY, and where are you from?:)

Yes, looks like it takes much time for a minister to acknowledge he's innocent and the opposition was wrong. BTW, Obama promised to acknowledge Armenian genocide of 1915, and he acknowledged a genocide.FeelSunny (talk) 08:43, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Maybe he wasn't asked about it before? In the withehouse press release about Holodomor Obama doesn't use the word genocide. Wise move in my opinion. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 21:31, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Sure. But he forgot to say a thing abt Stalin's seizure of crops and famine in Kuban and Povolzhye. Not only Ukraine. He prefers to take it as Yuschenko promotes it: a tragedy of ethnic Ukrainians. We all know where it's going to get him next term. Feel myself so Turkish, oeee:( FeelSunny (talk) 00:52, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Current Presidents of Ukraine and Russia celebrating the May holidays 2010 together near the ruins of the dacha of the previous President, V.Yanukovich(unclear if they are in a Russian or Ukrainian province). — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 22:31, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

File:Navy.gif — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 14:47, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Russian President I happy that Russian President II visited Russian President III in Kiev on May 17, 2010 and he wasn't invited. Note the trophy bow tie.

— Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 12:06, 17 May 2010 (UTC)]]

Funny ! We should have a comedy show on Ukrainian TV togheter! Unfortunatly the Ukrainian leadership has become so nationalistic that they prefer Ukrainian TV hosts . So Prime Minister Azarov better not start a TV career ! — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 09:42, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

MY, and where are you from?:)

Zarskaya massacre

Hi, what do you know about the Zarskaya massacre? Personally, I don't know much, and I'm having trouble finding reliable sources. Someone suggested, that we should create the article Zarskaya massacre, and I think this is a great idea. We already have public domain pictures for the article: [11]. Would you like to gather some info and create the article? I would help you if I can. Offliner (talk) 01:34, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Hello. Yes, see here, here, here, here, here, here, and here is an article in Russian WP. I think I'm going to get back to this this autumn, not sure when, though - got too much work in RL. Regards, FeelSunny (talk) 09:57, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

And another one and two and three, four. New war victims killed on the Zar (Zarskaya?) road are listed here To put it simple, it was a massacre by Georgian Mkhedrioni militants or some Mkhedrioni-like scum. 34 Ossetian civilians were killed, while trying to escape Tskhinvali during the Georgian attack. Mostly children, elder people and women emong them. Just got shot, some 14 survived and told the others. The road goes (went) through areas controlled by the Georgian government, and they travelled in the bus that was clearly a civilian vehicle. Noone would really care in 1992, as more violence was going on throughout the former USSR. Than the tape (link to which you posted) was filmed. Than - nothing. No investigation, no cries from Amnesty or HRW, just silence, as if Gamsakhurdia wasn't the one who brought this scum there.FeelSunny (talk) 12:26, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Another Clip

It's Jon Stewart with a parody of Glenn Beck. There's a pleasant surprise in the video:

http://www.freep.com/article/20091106/BLOG36/91106031/1320/Jon-Stewart-takes-on-Glenn-Beck

enjoy. HistoricWarrior007 (talk) 00:15, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

The guy's cool:)) And Beck is something I need to get to know more about.

Plus, I really like the "Я" letter people are getting used to use as an "alternative R" when they stylize anyhing to look "Russia-like":))) One of the discussions of such a phenomenon (regrettably, we have only Russian language discussions available:)) you will find here: [12]. Sign on a huge "Russia-like" cargo ship saying "Головка пальца ноги" in f*cking clear Russian language - oh, man, it can tear your head off and take it to Asia Minor:))) Please also note the "FƆ Б" sign on the guy's vatnik - even if only out of courtesy, I had to switch my keyboard two times an look for phonetic alphabet tables on WP to find the damned "Ɔ " letter. (BTW it behaves strange and turns into some Burmese letters time after time. Don't tell anyone:))

PS. Cool. Now I know.FeelSunny (talk) 10:31, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Happy new year. Keep looking forward in 2010! — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 18:23, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Подпись Гагарина.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:Подпись Гагарина.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Happy Easter!

Happy Easter!
This year on the same day's in the East and West! — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 15:54, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

"Terrorism"

As you suggested, I have taken a look at some of the articles you listed on Talk:2010 Moscow Metro bombings. Unfortunately, the main contributors on one article in particular (probably the highest profile article) September 11 attacks have established a consensus on the use of the words "terrorism" and "terrorist" in that article that I happen to disagree with. They seem unwilling to even discuss it further. Whatever the intention of these editors, I personally believe that it amounts to a de facto double standard, as you implied in our conversation.

I would like to re-iterate that I do not, in any way, condone or support violence against civilians, either by fringe extremist groups, states, or "freedom fighters". I do however strongly disagree with the use of these words, as I think they contribute nothing to discussion except a built-in bias toward (Western) state-sponsored violence, and they trigger an emotional response which makes it difficult or impossible to think objectively or to differentiate in a useful way between different groups. Revcasy (talk) 13:46, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Revcasy, I absolutely understand that you are neither supporting terrorists, nor trying to make them look less responsible for what they do. I just wanted to show there exist substancial disbalance in the way we treat US-related and Russia-related events. That is all. I'd rather agree to your point abt the article on Moscow metro bombings, would there be no other articles extensively using the word "terrorism". I hope you understand my position too. Best regards, FeelSunny (talk) 07:38, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Not only do I understand your position, I agree with it. There is a double standard. The inconsistent application of the WP:Avoid standard has occurred in such a way that it amounts to blatant bias. Thank you for pointing out this problem. I will try to correct it when I see it.Revcasy (talk) 12:43, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Than you. Revcasy, I can give you more than this one example of bias, if you're interested. FeelSunny (talk) 14:34, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

2008 South Ossetia War title

I would like to know your opinion concerning a proposal I made, which I think represents a decent compromise.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 03:09, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Good one!

I couldn't resists not saying that this photo is just amazing! :) Thanks for adding it! Oleg Yunakov (talk) 20:45, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Oleg! :) FeelSunny (talk) 13:45, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Russophobia and Finland

Russophobia in Finland. Please, answer in talk page to public before mashing edits. Second World War times has been handed in articles East Karelian concentration camps and Soviet prisoners of war in Finland. If you trying to bring out some kind of thought of planned massacre, then please find suitable sources first. Peltimikko (talk) 10:54, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

I answered there on the TP. I believe you should not call my actions "mashing edits", really. Because you came and just deleted sourced info because you find it irrelevant. Which is absolutely not a valid ground for speedy deletion. So let's discuss. FeelSunny (talk) 15:10, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Khruschev shoe fake.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Khruschev shoe fake.jpg. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Wikipedia uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information.

To add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from this list, click on this link, then click "Edit this page" and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Wikipedia. For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 02:06, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Nice bot, tnx:)FeelSunny (talk) 02:41, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Great find FeelSunny, and it adds to the article immensely. Y u no be Russavia ^{ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)} 10:15, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, mate!:)FeelSunny (talk) 12:04, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

How are you doing?

Hi! How are you doing? How is your career and marriage? I'm working on something interesting: User:Nanobear/Security threats against Russia. I believe such an article is needed in one form or another. What do you think? Do you have any ideas of what could be added? Feel free to edit the article if you can think of improvements. Nanobear (talk) 07:54, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Hey, Nanobear, thanks, everything's nice and smooth:) I'll definitely go there and see if there's anything I can help you with. As for the first thoughts, there are similar articles re other countries, for example this one: National Security of the United States. What do you think about following the pattern of this article?FeelSunny (talk) 20:11, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

March 2012

Please stop your disruptive editing, such as this edit.

If you continue to violate Wikipedia's no original research policy by adding your personal analysis or synthesis into articles, as you did at Freedom House, you may be blocked from editing. Please provide secondary reliable sources that establish claims in articles. Please comply with the lede guidelines, which require that the lede summarize material in the text. Please improve your formatting of sources, per WP:MOS and WP:Verifiability, so that others can verify your references to secondary reliable sources. Finally, please avoid inappropriate humor or baiting of other editors (e.g., me), particularly in edit summaries, such as this inappropriate summary:

• "Internets don't forget, KW. Links good as new, no FH sites this time. Wonder if guys are smart enough to cleanse WV's portal, lol."

Sincerely,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:34, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

This edit was not a good start. It looks to me like OR by synthesis (at best) or just OR, and poorly documented OR at that. I am glad that you have since given page numbers, but it is still OR.

That said, I over-reacted. I confused you with the other editor who preceded you and who made the POV-pushing edits. I shall take a break from editing now, because fatigue may explain but cannot excuse my leaving such an inappropriate template. Please accept my apologies.

Sincerely,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 00:58, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Ok, no worries:) The intent of the first part of the edit was to take away the repetition of funding data, changing the initial vague claims of government funding to something more precise. But I still don't think the numbers are an OR - you see, they are taken directly from the two sources, both even with the same names of lines in their financial statements. It's just digging for open data online, and dragging it to WP, not changing anything at all. Probably, you claim so because you think that calculating shares is an OR here, but it's not - see WP:CALC. And thanks for striking out the initial message, really appreciated. Thanks, FeelSunny (talk) 01:12, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Nanobear, but this whole issue was rather fun, I must say:) Found myself being attacked by a "Georgian noble", as he/ she promotes herself, made my day:) FeelSunny (talk) 10:25, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

On the topic of civil

With your reporting of GeorgianJorjadze at AN/I in mind, your own posts such as "Firstly, I must admit, I do not despise racists as much as some people do, just dislike them to a reasonable extent. In other case, I'd probably wouldn't bother to answer your message at all" don't do much to move along conversation either, especially as you post things like "Dear Dj777cool, a good old ad hominem is really a cruise control to compromise." It appears to be quite WP:POT. I suggest you strike that as a show of good faith, especially as you asked GeorgianJorjadze for an apology. If you feel someone is racist, it isn't something to bring up on article talk pages. CMD (talk) 07:32, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Right, I probably overreacted, but there was a cause for this.

With ad hominem: ok, I don't agree I was rude to respond "good old ad hominem is really a cruise control to compromise" to "you are nothing more than a Georgian hater who can't bear keeping his marvelous theories to himself". That was an ad hominem, and I noticed that this type of communication is counterproductive. Well, I probably could save my irony - but after being called "hater-blah-blah" in the first sentence your mindset naturally changes to ironic.

With racism: when User:Dj777cool said "Georgians are more genetically related to each other than any Russian (who are descendants of not only Slavs but also from Germanic, Turco-Mongolic and Scytho/Sarmatian peoples), no offense" - he meant an offence. Claiming "Russians are descendants of Mongols", etc. is an often seen racist statement, implying Russians are somehow inferior to other Europeans, or Mongols are some brutal brainless creatures, passing brainlessness through genes, etc. Here are two examples, to make you see what I mean, from the first page of google results to "Russians are mongols": "Russians are mongols. Americans are half niggers. Germans are half Jews..." Imagine calling an American "half nigger" on Wikipedia? Calling German "half Jew"? Another: "The muscovite mogols call themselves "russians", but they have never been "russians" and they will never be "russians". If you put lipstick on a pig, it´s still a pig. And thats the case with muscovite mongols." And so on, all the first page of results is full of it. It was not a mere description of ancestors by Dj777cool, believe me.FeelSunny (talk) 09:26, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

You misunderstand me. There's nothing wrong with saying " "good old ad hominem is really a cruise control to compromise". That was accurate. They gave ad hominem, and there's nothing wrong with pointing it out. What was wrong was saying that and adding your own ad hominem in response. If Dj777cool wants to somehow justify offenses with genetics, that's frankly their problem. There's nothing wrong with being a Mongol, or a half Jew, or a half Nigger, or whatever else they want to say, and there's nothing that great about being European either. If you feel there are personal attacks, you can call them and ask them to stop (as you did), or report them on WP:WQA, but don't respond with your own negative statement. CMD (talk) 09:45, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Now you fail to se my poiint. I agree with "There's nothing wrong with being a Mongol, or a half Jew, or a half Nigger". I only want to note there's something wrong in being a person who says descending from Mongols is offending. More precisely, this something is called "being a racist". And that was exactly why I wrote that I dislike racists. Probably not that civil behavior either, but hardly something that could justify throwing even more racist ravings at me by a friend of the first user?FeelSunny (talk) 09:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Alright, I see that. Anyway, next time put it to WQA instead of responding and calling it out on the talkpage with bolding. It just encourages the problem to get worse by creating a whole new argument on the talkpage. Cheers, CMD (talk) 10:01, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I know I already answered FeelSunny's questions with this -- I don't find the descent from turco-Mongolic peoples despicable, I just want to illustrate that the Russians are extremely heterogenous. You being a Russian, criticizing and separating genetically interwoven Georgian people is a real shame., but I still need to elaborate. When I said who are descendants of not only Slavs but also from Germanic, Turco-Mongolic and Scytho/Sarmatian peoples, he chose Turco-Mongolic and Scytho/Sarmatian peoples as indicator of my racism. He is himself is a racist and that is why he took my words as an insult. Why didn't he feel offended by descent from Germanic peoples?? because he views the last two as being inferior, despite the fact Scytho/Sarmatian are of Indo-European origin and very close to Slavic Russians. I spoke only the facts, which are scientific and not Racist. Now, Racism in Russia is a very serious issue, something Georgia has never known. Also, FeelSunny somehow feels that Georgians are distinct from Lazs and Mingrellians, that's more than just being a racist.. His words -- this one really hilarious, so now all Laz, Mingrelians and Svan people are "Kartvelians"? are extremely offensive, something he doesn't understand. I spoke very clearly - . I don't care what you think about the early Georgian statehood, because your ideas are just theories, thank god. By offending Georgian statehood, you are naturally offending the Georgian nation along with it, so choose words carefully.. I don't consider Georgians to be superior to any nations, and support racial equality. Criticizing the history of other nations than yours comes easy. While I do not think of Georgians as superior than Russians, I clearly see that they are far more Ancient. Perhaps this is the reason of your strong dislike, if not hate of their history and claims. and he has to admit at least that. --Dj777cool (talk) 12:16, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Please save your false accusations, Dj777cool. Involved users have already read and understood what was said in the talkpage by now. FeelSunny (talk) 12:58, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Editing about Eastern Europe is hazardous, even when well rested and with a bottle of extra-strength ibupropen. Discussing nationalist attacks and insults civilly is often beyond my abilities. Xenophobic editors do not improve upon being referred to the phylogenetic analysis of human populations, which usually try to find isolated communities in mountain valleys to reduce the noise of the last 1000 years. The typical modern-person's background is much more mixed than such phylogenetic studies indicate. In a hundred years, our cyborg descendants (if they are not blown up) will wonder what all the fuss was about....

As a rodeo clown, ;) per usual, :)

 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:28, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

FeelSunny is a neutral and knowledgeable editors; please stop your personal attacks on him. Nanobear (talk) 01:35, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Space reserved

If you want to reply to Dj777cool, lease use the "space reserved", which is indented accrdingly. (I made a statement of sympathy for FeelSunny.) Ah humanity,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 07:11, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Oy vey...FeelSunny (talk) 20:36, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Double oy vey, I'd say: [13]...FeelSunny (talk) 23:14, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Freedom House redux

Hi FeelSunny!

Given your interest, generosity, and scrupulous fairness, you may have valuable comments on a suggested shortening of the lede. Sincerely,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:20, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

You continue being a mean sarcastic creature you are and one day I'll storm through your talkpage the article like a squadron of Cossacks through a Polish place!:) Other than that, I'm busy till May, 16:( FeelSunny (talk) 10:32, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Security threats against Russia

Hello! How are you going? I've been working on User:Nanobear/Security threats against Russia, added some more material, and I think it's already starting look like it's ready to post. The only thing left to do, since I was too lazy to use inline citations, is to insert the missing refs. Nanobear (talk) 01:33, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Nanobear! I'd love to help with the article, but can't until mid-May, just too busy at work right now (quite thankfully, in these times). The article looks really promising, and I'll definitely come by to see what citations and sources I can add. Keep up the good work, FeelSunny (talk) 10:19, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you

thank you for everything you've done so far and take care — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.196.81.181 (talk) 20:55, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks!FeelSunny (talk) 12:13, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 15

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Cluster munition, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Spiegel (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Oops. Corrected. Thank you, dear bot.FeelSunny (talk) 17:03, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

engage on talk page?

Hi FeelSunny,

I'm surprised that you reverted the Freedom House article again without discussion; I guess you didn't notice that I'd opened one on the article's talk page. Given your long interest in this page, you might consider adding it to your watchlist. Anyway, I'd still like to hear your thoughts there on why this fact needs to be emphasized more than any other in the article. Khazar2 (talk) 18:19, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

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Page move

As the creator of Alcoholism in Russia, I disagree with your move. IMO, the emphasis of the article is on alcoholism, not alcohol consumption. Also, the fact that there isn't currently something like Alcoholism in the United States just means that somebody hasn't gotten around to it yet. See, for example, National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, this New York Times article, etc. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:49, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Clarityfiend, I'd be glad to discuss that, in the case you could provide a single example of an article about national patterns of alcohol consumption, let alone alcoholism. Otherwise, this article looks very much like promoting a point of view. When I see "Human Rights violations in Russia", I have absolutely no objections, because there are multiple articles like this about different countries. But somehow alcoholism article exists only for Russia, though the country is far from consuming the most alcohol per capita in Europe. So please give some examples of articles about national alcohol consumption. National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism is absolutely off the topic, because it is an article about an institution, 100%. No statistics on alcohol consumption in the US, no numbers of prevalence of dangerous behavior - nothing. So currently Wikipedia seems to have no other "national alcoholism" pages.176.195.15.229 (talk) 09:59, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

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User:UA Victory,

1. Stop spamming my page.
2. Stop threatening people, Wikipedia is not your battleground; you're violating every community's policy on civil behavior.
3. Stop engaging in edit wars', it is disruptive.FeelSunny (talk) 13:44, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

References

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