User talk:Harout72/Archive 2

Awards

You have said that the 'List of backstreet boys awards' article would be deleted if it doesn't get any references. But,the'List of Britney Spears awards'and 'List of Spice Girls awards' and basically any article of that type has no references too. Why aren't you deleting them as well?-KingdomHearts25

Because I can't watch every single page here at wikipedia, I'm just trying to get to those to which I have already contributed.--Harout72 (talk) 17:58, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Let me tell you, there are only 7-8 pages of that type its not like there are hundreds of pages of that type . Also regarding the references, I will add for most of them soon but I'm busy for a few days and please give me time. -KingdomHearts25

Yes, add as many references as you can please, but let's make sure they are not fan pages, because I will not accept them. Thanks.--Harout72 (talk) 17:45, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

MJ

Hi there.

With regard to the recent edit/revert on

Please note that the edit was in good faith; in conjunction with cubs197 (talk · contribs) we looked at the request to edit this semi-protected page, we checked out the references, we checked the FA on MJ, and there was no reason not not make the edit.

I certainly did not intend to "ignore the hard work", as you said in the edit summary; we are all trying to make Wikipedia better, and I do appreciate your intentions too.

That said: due process means that I should now start a discussion on the talk page, and try to help reach a consensus on the issue. I have started this, in Talk:List of best-selling music artists#Michael Jackson (again). I look forward to your comments there; I remain perfectly neutral, and all I can do is try to facilitate a policy-based reasoned, agreeable decision based on what everyone thinks.

Best wishes,  Chzz  ►  21:05, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Harold, listen I actually think Elvis' and The Beatles and Michael Jackson's record sales are all blown up too much, but that is no reason to place Michael Jackson behind ABBA, there is no way to really check if MJ sold 350 million records or 750 million, same with Elvis's and The Beatles 1 billion records sold (which is most likey largely over-blown) but most sources place Michael Jackson at 750 million records including Sony BMG. I really think we should place MJ back to 750 million records, or atleast 350-750 million records. We should put MJ, Elvis, The Beatles all in the 500million to 1 billion records sold table. Tell me what you think. --RafiCHAMP¹ 03:30, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

It's Harout actually, not Harold. You are not wrong, the figures of both Elvis and The Beatles are inflated and so is ABBA's. Quite frankly, there is a way to check Jackson's and every other artist's sales figures, some of which I already have done through the help of certification databases. It's all in the current dispute/discussion of List of best-selling music artists. Let's not believe what most sources publish as they, most of the time, never put any effort into studying sales figures. One news service publishes 750m for Jackson and the rest reiterate the same spurious figure. It all probably began because SONY thought using a figure as outrageous as the 750m would be an appealing marketing tool to bring Jackson's lost fame back. If you'd like to help out, you could search for reliable sources for Elvis claiming a figure somewhere between 350-500m in worldwide sales. As for ABBA, their actual sales should be somewhere 100-150m worldwide. I need reliable sources to put them all where they belong. I never was going to leave ABBA, Presley or The Beatles where they currently are, everything got put on hold because of this pointless dispute created by those who oppose the 350m for Jackson which resulted in a full-protection of the page.--Harout72 (talk) 04:00, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

User:Johnali123 got off his 3RR block and put Michael Jackson higher up on the list again at List of best-selling music artists. He has been 3RR warned again but since this dispute continues, I requested full page protection to get him and User:Mjlouisdbz14 to the talk page to discuss their edits. Momo san ^Gespräch 16:04, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Looks like a possible sockpuppet maybe in the mix, User:Passwordpass. I made a sockpuppet report to confirm my findings, SPI Report. Momo san ^Gespräch 16:34, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

i am not i have give the right sources

http://www.michaeljackson.com/ie/news/michael-jacksons-it-be-presented-theaters-around-world http://press.sonymusic.com/2009/06/26/sony-comments-on-the-passing-of-michael-jackson http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1614815/20090626/jackson_michael.jhtml http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/03/05/uk.jackson.comeback/ http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/26/2609049.htm 2) http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Story?id=8050704&page=1 3) h ttp://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/WinterConcert/wireStory?id=7075284 4) h ttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/06/entertainment/michaeljackson/main5137816.shtml 5) http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/06/entertainment/main3461884.shtml 6) http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1614815/20090626/jackson_michael.jhtml 7)http://cbs2.com/entertainment/michael.jackson.hospitalized.2.1059895.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/26/arts/music/26jackson.html?_r=1 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/25/AR2009062503127.html http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/wpix-michael-jackson-heart-attack,0,6959872.story http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29531056/ http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Showbiz-News/Michael-Jackson-Memorial-Service---In-Numbers/Article/200907115331455 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8121749.stm 14) http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/f27ec8db-af05-4f36-916e-3d57f91ecf5e etc e please read all of them they say 750 million —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnali123 (talk • contribs) 22:57, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I have seen them all, and they all look like they have copied the figures from each other.--Harout72 (talk) 23:25, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Harout72

you claim that cnn are right about but in the sources below it says he has sold 750 million thats 2 cnn soruces agianst 1 of your other cnn source you have provided

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/26/michael.jackson.album.sales/
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/03/05/uk.jackson.comeback/index.html

also if you work this hard on michael jackson sales why dont you work this hard with the beatles, elvis or any other best selling artists

and you claim the daily telegraph are right but they also say here sold 750 million http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5642353/Michael-Jackson-Key-facts-about-the-life-of-the-world-famous-singer.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.6.199.143 (talk) 07:04, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

You have no idea what kind of time I have already spent on both The Beatles and Elvis Presley, and the US sales of both look more than twice as much than that of Jackson's US sales figures, The Beatles (US sales=210 million) and Elvis Presley (US sales=175 million). For the rest of the countries, you will find out as I am sure we'll get to that at the talk page of List of best-selling music artists.--Harout72 (talk) 03:17, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

if you read Thugs-n-Harmonyharout section in best selling artist Harout72 says articles published by major record companies such as Sony Music are acceptable but for michael jackson its different why is this —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.6.43 (talk) 03:05, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

First, sign after you're done with your writings. Second, in order for you to find out why that is, you need to read the entire discussion that has taken place there. --Harout72 (talk) 03:10, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

is this article reliable or not http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,23663,20767067-10388,00.html please reply —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cometogetpeople (talk • contribs) 00:15, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't accept the use of that at the List of best-selling music artists. We are questioning the 750m at the moment which is published by numerous reliable sources. --Harout72 (talk) 03:06, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I have read everthing above Harout72 you tells us highly regarded music related sources such as MTV, VH1, articles published by major record companies such as Sony Music or Universal Music are acceptable you at same time you add the bbc are acceptalbe his a link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8120606.stm. I am very confused as a result of that, whereas you are also saying these are articles not reliable for michael jackson. And if they are wrong their is not one article which calculates his album sales form Got to Be There his first studio album to his last studio album invincible. In conclusion he also has compilation albums which are not calculated —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cometogetpeople (talk • contribs) 13:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I do explain this within the talk page of List of best-selling music artists, read my comments in both these section, Further Discussion and comments, Simply wow.--Harout72 (talk) 15:21, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Archive Records

I have added more to the rationale, hopefully this will be convincing enough for those opposing that the claim of 750 million originated from Raymone Bain, and as such the primary source is a publicist which should not be accepted for obvious reasons. Perhaps to end this once and for all we need data from sources such as CNN, FOX, BBC and other reputable outlets giving any indication of sales prior to November 2006, and preferably from 2000 onwards so a logical justification can be reached with the rest of the evidence presented. I have searched the Google News archives and much of it remains in pay-per-view sites, and only a few are credible, perhaps if we can locate more archive sales data from a few years ago? JFonseka (talk) 10:35, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Thomas Anders in Rock

1.Back in 1987 touring Hungary Thomas Anders performed Rock'n'roll Medley: - When The Saints Go Marching In - Hound Dog - Tutti Frutti - When The Saints Go Marching In 2. During his solo-career Thomas Anders covered at least 3 Beatles' songs: Michelle, Hey Jude (live) and With A Little Help Of My Friens (on TV). 3. In 1992 he performed Sound Of Silence by Simon & Gurfunkel on TV. 4. In 2006 he was involved in the project: http://www.thomasanders.ru/creative/projects/music_team/discogr/wftd.htm where he covered a song http://www.discogs.com/Fury-In-The-Slaughterhouse-Wont-Forget-These-Days/master/143954 classified as alternative rock. 5. His albums Different and Whispers can be classified as Album-oriented rock. Isn't it enough to say that Anders has covered this genre? Bolafik (talk) 17:07, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. Please let's ask ourselves one question here, does Anders cover Rock genre in his studio albums? And the answer to that is no, we should only insert the rock genre if he has tracks within his solo albums which sound like rock music, which he doesn't. So please, if the anonymous IP user is you who constantly inserts the Rock genre, please stop.--Harout72 (talk) 02:01, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous IP user is not me Bolafik (talk) 13:33, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

How Many Records Did the Beatles and Elvis Actually Sell

http://musicindustrynewswire.com/2009/04/29/min1592_195858.php Jamesyull (talk • contribs) )

http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/one_billion_record_sales.shtml Jamesyull (talk • contribs) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamesyull (talk • contribs) 16:38, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

dear Harout72,

I find this source about selling in UKhttp://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=496094 this web claim that beatles sell 28.745M albums and 20,799,632 singles so in total we have : 49,544,632 record- exact the number that you estimate for the beatles!! so I think this source is reliable. For Michael Jackson albums: 16.411M singles: 11,310,958 total: 27,721,958 For Elvis: 18.17M singles: 19,293,118 total: 37,463,118 so what do you say? is it look reliable? --Idan789 (talk) 16:23, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

There seems to be some very interesting sales figures on there; however, since all the reviews are written by fans, it cannot be considered a reliable source. What did you want to use the site for, by the way? I mean what did you want to support with this site?--Harout72 (talk) 21:20, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Harout72, I think we should learn for the example UK how the base on clarify sales of platinum, gold etc after 1973 for the beatles is unfair and mislead us. The beatles , as you know, activated between 1962 (1964 in most of the country including USA) until 1970. For this reason we would miss all them studio albums and them singles . all we have after 1970 is collections like" 1962-1966"), remix album (like "love") anthologies etc. The Beatles have 17 singles who chart as 1. (more than any artists ever) – no one of them mention in BPI . Beatles also had between 1962-1970 11 albums (from 13 studio albums!!!) who chart as 1 –no one mention in BPI. Just look at List of best-selling albums in the United Kingdom and "UK best selling singles artists of all time" how we lost at least 25M(20.7M singles, 4.8M for sgt. Papers ) records. We should at least add this number for BIP's 7.6M and we then we get TO 33.2M in UK (without all the rest of beatles' studio albums). --Idan789 (talk) 23:53, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Please see the footnote I have prepared for UK immediately below the table, which clearly explains that the records released and sold before 1973 may not show in the UK's database. I have prepared an alike explanation for every market immediately below the table. In the UK's footnote, I also state that their database just recently has gone through an update; therefore, some of the records may still not be there as they don't seem to have finished updating their database system. Keep in mind that all figures must be sourced. And if some albums or singles are not yet in UK's database due to slow updating, then we have to wait and add those records when they reappear in the database. In other words, they must be verifiable. --Harout72 (talk) 03:46, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

ABBA vs MJ

Hello!

I am a new one here. Did ABBA sell more records than Michael Jackson? Its almost unbeliveable. How do you explain that?

Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.40.12.217 (talk) 07:45, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Let me first say, that I was not even remotely done with updating List of best-selling music artists when the whole dispute erupted over Jackson's figures. In other words, I even removed some artists, before I got to Jackson, from the list, rather than degrading them as Jackson. I discuss about various artists within the current dispute including ABBA. But since you have missed that part, to answer your question in short, no, ABBA has not sold more than Jackson according to my analysis. And the update process, I assure you, is not yet complete. So, please let's be patient as the figures published by reliable sources that we have for that page require a lot of scrutinizing. Simply attaching sources next to the figures is not going to do it as many sources copy figures from each other without doing any research themselves.--Harout72 (talk) 15:25, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi Harout72.

regarding the list of best selling artist, i realised that there is a major contradiction with another list called 'list of best selling album (worldwide)' on wikipedia as well. elvis wasn't even listed there and according to CNN, see link here: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/06/26/michael.jackson.spotlight/index.html#cnnSTCOther1 it's very unlikely that elvis has over 1billion sales worldwide. it's not a logical deduction from the CNN source and the 'list of best selling album (worldwide)' if elvis didn't even has a single album being listed as top selling album, how come he could achieve 1 billion sales? It's telling me that either the 'Top selling music artist list' is wrong or the 'list of best selling album(worldwide)' is wrong.

as for the Beatles, they have 3 albums on the list that add to around 100million sales versus Michael Jackson, there are a total of 5 albums on the list that added his total worldwide sales to at least 200million already. So it draws the same conclusion that either the 'Top selling music artist list' is wrong or the 'list of best selling album(worldwide)' is wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jctokyo2009 (talk • contribs) 13:44, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I just can't understand why anybody would compare List of best-selling albums worldwide to List of best-selling music artists. Because, List of best-selling albums worldwide does not document the sum of all the record sales of artists, but rather, it lists the best selling albums. However, if one likes to compare artists to each other, they need to take larger music markets, for example, and compare what each artist's total sales looks like in those regions. In other words, if you'd like to compare Presley to Jackson you might as well take both Presley's and Jackson's US sales under consideration (US represents about 30% of all music markets in the world). Presley has sold over 174 million records in US, that's singles, albums and videos combined. Whereas, Jackson's US sales stands at 77 million, albums, singles, videos combined. Even though, Elvis may not have an album which has sold as well as some of Jackson's albums, Elvis' total sales relies mostly on countless singles and albums almost all of which are multi-platinum sellers. By the way, I am not sure who's in charge of List of best-selling albums worldwide, but at least half of the albums' total figures are exaggerated on that list including the figure Jackson's Thriller represents.--Harout72 (talk) 21:28, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

thriller sold 104 million enlarge the pitcture http://media.kickstatic.com/kickapps/images/7691/photos/PHOTO_4351584_7691_7734553_main.jpg

First, sign after your messages, second, I only trust Gold/Platinum awards through which I study sales. So don't waste your time filling my page with images or sources of any kind please. Let me demonstrate a quick list of some significant music markets representing the sales of Thriller.

• US sales on Thriller 28 million

• UK sales on Thriller 3.3 million

• German sales on Thriller 1.5 million

• French sales on Thriller 1 million

• Mexican sales in Thriller 1.6 million

• Canadian sales on Thriller 2 million

• Australian sales on Thriller 1 million

• The Dutch sales on Thriller 800,000

• Swiss sales on Thriller 300,000

• Austrian sales on Thriller 400,000

• Swedish sales on Thriller 400,000

• Finnish sales on Thriller 91,609

Well, there you have the markets, the combination of which represents the 60-65% of all music markets in the entire world. We have only 40.3 million for all these markets. You could add some 2 million for the rest of Europe on the top of what we have, 8 million more for Asia Pacific and another 6 million more on the top of Mexico's figure for South/Central America, plus 3 million for India and Africa. And you will only have some 59 million for Thriller. So if I were you, I would stop believing what sources claim. As for what Guinness World Records claims in the image above, where do you think Jackson has sold the rest of 40 some million for Thriller?--Harout72 (talk) 00:10, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Harout72. This is Jctokyo2009. In response to your message, let me explain why people like comparing the 2 lists. It's simply because in order to derive a logical and convincing answer, one requires consistency across different rankings as it provides different perspective but a consistent conclusion to a mathematical question: Who sells more in the history of music? --> which is primarily the final answer that is derived from your LIST. So what I mean is: from A perspective: 1+1=2, from B perspective: 3-1=2, the result should be the same as it's the FACT.

When you can see Elvis is NOWHERE on the 'list of best selling album(worldwide)' plus the fact that CNN reported the best selling album of Elvis was ONLY 3 MILLIONS in US. It leads me to another logical questions how many hundreds more albums and singles Elvis had to release IN ORDER TO CATCH UP the total sales of Michael Jackson's best selling album on the LIST? Here you go a simulation: If MJ had really sold 200millions based on the figures from the best selling album list. Assuming for every release of his album/single, Elvis could always sell 3m copies + another 7m in other countires (As you mentioned, US market accounts for 30% of worldwide sales), that means his total worldwide sales is 10m/single or album. For Elvis, he needs to release 20 singles/albums FOR JUST TO CATCH UP Michael Jackson's sales on the best selling list. To me, obviously, there is something wrong with either your list (underestimating MJ's sales or overestimating Elvis/Beatles sales) or the 'best selling album (worldwide) list' where all figures are exaggerated.

Also if Guiness, which has long been considered as an official authority to name WORLD'S RECORD, has to exaggerate Michael Jackson's sales, my next question is why Michael Jackson? But not any other long-standing legend like Elvis or Beatles? If Guiness is so carelessly name a WRONG WORLD RECORD, I don't believe why it's mis-approval on the records will still be recognized all over the world.

Sometimes, instead of REINVENTING THE WHEEL, we should read and refer to the authoritative instead of cultivating something illogical on your own. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jctokyo2009 (talk • contribs) 12:11, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Please, stop wasting your time filling my page with pointless rants, instead, start counting. Here is where your homework starts RIAA, 13 page of singles, albums, Videos by Presley, and now look at this here for Jackson, only 4 pages of singles and albums, videos. Yes Presley has released hundreds of more records than Jackson, that is how he has managed to outsell Jackson and many others.--Harout72 (talk) 16:17, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Harout72, when people are trying to help and give you advice to make your list looks more logical, you are being so stubborn and return such a rude message. Look at your list now, it looks worse and messier than before. Okay, just let it be, I am not going to waste my time on this Jctokyo2009 (talk) 12:23, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Last one, really can't help to share with you another major contradiction on your list versus other authoritative certification. See following that Elvis is NOWHERE...please remove him from the top selling list for the sake of FACT. Info extracted also from Wikipedia: The Chopard Diamond award (or simply the Diamond award) is given by the World Music Awards to artists who have sold over 100 million albums during their career. It is not presented every year. To date only 6 artists won this award: Rod Stewart (in 2001), Mariah Carey (in 2003), Celine Dion (in 2004), Bon Jovi (in 2005), Michael Jackson (in 2006) and The Beatles (in 2008). World Music Award is an international awards show founded in 1989 that annually honors recording artists based on worldwide sales figures provided by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI). Jctokyo2009 (talk) 12:35, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The next time you wish to have proper conversation with me, make sure you don't insult editors with comments of this kind Sometimes, instead of REINVENTING THE WHEEL, we should read and refer to the authoritative instead of cultivating something illogical on your own.By the way, what is it you want Presley taken down from the list for? Diamond Award received by those that you mention above is supposed to be some kind of an evidence that Elvis has not sold more records than them?--Harout72 (talk) 15:18, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Cat Stevens

Ah I see now, I didn't realize I had re-counted already certified albums, thanks for that information and the German sales one as well. Any information regarding album sales methods is appreciated, so it's all cool =) JFonseka (talk) 12:53, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I'd also like to know how to get figures for the Australian database ARIA, I'm in Australia and it's a shame I can find stuff for other countries but not my own lol. Also are the remaining artists on the entire list going to be looked at in detail in the coming days, months and years? I suspect most of the artists have nowhere close to the kind of sales claimed. There seems to be a lot of hate mail on your page too, might want to clear that up, haha. JFonseka (talk) 13:03, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I put the file up in the "roxette" section as you asked, let me know when you got it yea, don't want to keep it up. JFonseka (talk) 05:02, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

No those are total sales of all artists I believe until that year, The Beatles information has been redacted for some unknown reason by whoever uploaded this file. There some other Beatles sales information and other related files from EMI regarding royalties, I will send them through in one package soon, so that you can see some, we can't really use this information here though, most people won't understand it. Was just for interest purposes. JFonseka (talk) 05:27, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Tables

Hey, I've left a reply for you here: User talk:Kiac/Tables. Cheers. k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 13:19, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Scooter images

Please note my discussion at WT:NFCC#Images in Scooter (band), and wait until discussion is complete before doing anything more with the images.—Kww(talk) 02:08, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks...

		The Music Barnstar
		Thanks for your work trying to keep the list of best-selling music artists honest--Nyctc7 (talk) 02:07, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks very much, it really feels good to be appreciated :).--Harout72 (talk) 05:17, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Oasis at List Of Best Selling Music Artists

According to the Belfast Telegraph, by June 2009 Oasis had sold over 90 million records worldwide.http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/music/reviews/some-might-say-oasis-are-still-world-beaters-after-slane-gig-14351086.html

Currently the figure of Oasis is being supported by an article published by Washington Post which happens to be a highly reliable source and it's from December, 2008. The Belfast Telegraph is only weakly reliable in comparison with Washington Post, and the figure The Belfast Telegraph has for Oasis is 70 million not 90 million. The article is from June, 2009. I don't believe Oasis could've sold another 20 million within only 18 months.

The sales of Oasis is not astronomical outside of UK, this is what their sales looks like in the following markets:

• US market: 7.5 million (singles, albums, videos combined)
• UK market: 15.4 million (Albums, singles and DVDs combined)
• German market: 500,000
• French market: 700,000
• Canadian market: 1.3 million
• Australian market: 580,000
• Swedish market: 300,000

There are no major sales in The Netherlands [1], no major sales in Austria [2], no major sales in Finland [3], no major sales in Switzerland [4], no major sales in Brazil [5], no major sales in Mexico [6], no major sales in Argentina [7]. All in all, their worldwide should not surpass 50 million maximum. --Harout72 (talk) 23:23, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

List of best-selling music artists

Please do not remove verified sources from an article. If you have references that dispute these, feel free to add them. Eight88 (talk) 01:26, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

• I will remind you again that all figures are to get scrutinized regardless of where they're coming from. I have been policing this page for two years and scrutinizing the figures before adding them to the list is the best way to keep the article clean.--Harout72 (talk) 02:14, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Please do not remove verified sources from an article. Thank you Eight88 (talk) 07:20, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

• Re: List of best selling music artists

thank you very much for that piece of information you gave me regarding this topic, I ddin't know that in order to qualify as an artist with reputed sales you had to have enough certifications to prove it-Zakdos —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zakdos (talk • contribs) 14:29, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Not to qualify as an artist but to prove whether the claimed sales figures are correct. You might also want to look at your edit here where the insertion of Beyonce without a source and the inflation of Black Sabbath's estimated figure clearly indicate that you don't understand how the List of best-selling music artists is operated. All estimated sales figures and the stay of all artists are supported by reliable source, not to mention that all claimed figures are verified through certification-databases to avoid outrageous claimed figures.--Harout72 (talk) 22:28, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Talk:List of best-selling music artists

Re. Talk:List of best-selling music artists, would you mind removing the template, {{Maintained|{{user|Harout72}}}} - reason being, the documentation for that template does specifically say "DO NOT place this template on the talk pages of controversial articles that are easily subject to POV wars." - and I think we can agree that the article is controversial! I didn't want to remove it myself without asking; I hope you'll understand.  Chzz  ►  03:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

While I didn't come across "DO NOT place this template on the talk pages of controversial articles that are easily subject to POV wars." after I rummaged the WP:OOA enough, I don't see why your newly submitted suggestion at Talk:List of best-selling music artists should not serve its purpose if it, of course, covers all the necessary points. It should be noted that WP:OOA clearly states In many cases (but not all), primary editors engaged in ownership conflicts are also primary contributors to the article, so keep in mind that such editors may be experts in their field and/or have a genuine interest in maintaining the quality of the article and preserving accuracy.--Harout72 (talk) 04:56, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I should've said - it's stated in the template doc itself, Template:Maintained.  Chzz  ►  10:27, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Please check back on Talk:List_of_best-selling_music_artists#1._All_sources_must_be_published_by_highly_Reliable_Third_Parties - I think you just replied there, and I added something; I'm guessing you might be online?  Chzz  ►  22:03, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Modern Talking

I've had words with MisterWiki. Hopefully he understands now. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:48, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for helping again to keep that page free of materials that don't need to be there.--Harout72 (talk) 18:31, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

????. --MisterWiki talking! :-D - 21:43, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Does this here clear things up for you?--Harout72 (talk) 21:50, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

JLo discography

[8] Those were the Australia peaks, not the Austria peaks. Gimmetrow 02:00, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I'm sorry, my mistake, let me correct them.--Harout72 (talk) 02:18, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

I already had them. Probably some over-anxious de-linker removed a "duplicate" ARIA link because "AUS" was linked elsewhere. Not your fault. Gimmetrow 02:26, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks.--Harout72 (talk) 02:28, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of List of Euro disco artists

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is List of Euro disco artists. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Euro disco artists. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:08, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Modern Talking "Wiki Project"

[9]. Just in case you saw the template briefly appear and disappear. I note you show no inclination to sign up to this proposed Wikiproject. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:45, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Please sign up to it. I'm seriously working on it to improve MT articles. Thanks. Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Modern Talking --MisterWiki talk contribs 14:33, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Nice work on Modern Talking discography, but there are many others compilations. --MisterWiki talk contribs 14:34, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Your talk page archive

I'm not sure why you're using your talk page archive (User talk:Harout72/Archive 1) as a sandbox. That's not really what it is intended for at all. Archives aren't supposed to be edited to change content in them. See WP:ARCHIVE and WP:REFACTOR. I'd suggest using a sandbox page in your userspace. Something like User:Harout72/Sandbox. Killiondude (talk) 07:15, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Will do, thanks.--Harout72 (talk) 07:25, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

You Can Win If You Want

Hi, could you please explain this edit? There is no limit to how many categories an article can be in. --Aqwis (talk) 01:11, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Second this. The categories are not at all "irrelevant"; the fact that the band is German does not mean that only German categories should be included. Ironholds (talk) 01:13, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

The reason why I removed them is because I recently cleaned up most of Modern Talking related articles (including the singles' articles) and provided sources for all chart positions. Therefore, I removed also those categories, the positions of which cannot be referenced due to unavailable chart-archives. To be fair; however, let's keep those country-categories, the number-one positions of which are already within the chart-table.--Harout72 (talk) 01:30, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

"To be fair", you can't rule what you want here. You are just one: We have to keep just the number-one singles in Germany. You are not able to use We because it's just You. About the picture of Last Exit to Brooklyn (song), I'm sorry but the image you uploaded fails to WP:NFCC#3. It have to be deleted. Cheers. --MisterWiki talk contribs 20:50, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Also, you can't rule the wiki, the edit you did in Lonely Tears in Chinatown, the chart was available on that page, you are just vandalizing and you are making me angry. Please stop, or I will request your block. --MisterWiki talk contribs 21:46, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Does this look like a functioning source to you here? Because that's the source the position No. 9 was supported by, see it here. Just because you were able to search and locate the source, doesn not mean that it was there before. Be competent about it and do not call editors vandals.--Harout72 (talk) 22:38, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

		Nora Award — For making 500 contributions to the Modern Talking WikiProject
		For your dedication to the Project, articles and everything that is Modern Talking! You have set a wonderful example for everyone else to follow. I present you with this award on behalf of the community. Enjoy. -- MisterWiki talk contribs 04:17, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Enjoy. --MisterWiki talk contribs 04:17, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks very much, that's an interesting looking award.--Harout72 (talk) 06:12, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Please add your name here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Modern Talking. :) --MisterWiki talk contribs 19:39, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again, but I'd like to stay neutral at the moment, I'd like to invest my available time in contributing to already existing Modern Talking related articles. Besides, should any portions of any Modern Talking related articles require improvement, editors could come forward with their suggestions directly on the relating talk-pages.--Harout72 (talk) 23:43, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Hilary Duff discography

Just FYI...user you warned before regarding edits to this article appears to be socking as User:Edgpreci. Just reverted two edits by this user identical to those by the one you had reverted. ɠǀɳ̩ςεΝɡbomb 06:52, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't know what else to do, I asked for page protection hours ago, but nobody seems to be doing anything about it. The same editor keeps vandalizing Hilary Duff's other album pages also. Can you help me to get this user blocked.--Harout72 (talk) 06:55, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

oh its cause metamorphosis said in sold 5 million in the wiki page & hilary duff (self titled) did as well in its page as hilary duff's offcial site. isnt that "reliable enogh"? most wanted as well as 3 mil. i can change it cause you will erase them, but can u? if they are reliable! for example the miley cyrus page says she has sold 19 mil!? you should FIx that too! so please fix the hilary duff page and if ypu want contag the sales & billboard! im just trying to clean things up. thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hazzleboi (talk • contribs) 07:02, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

You're Welcome

Happy New Year to you too man! I felt your massive input with the best selling artists thread deserved some kind of recognition, because that article would be a complete mess if you hadn't formalized it! Good job with still maintaining it, it's a headache haha. Veritas Blue (talk) 11:05, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

That page is truly a major headache:), I've just put in too much time and effort to walk away from it without looking back. But then editors seem to discuss before editing more than before which minimizes edit-wars.--Harout72 (talk) 16:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

thank you

thanks harout72 for helping fix hilary duff discography page, the only concern i have is that 4ever isnt realible to be an offical album. theire is no proof to it... so can u please help with that (WE appreciate it!) & 1 more thing the sells of hilary duff are 3.6 as its wiki page says so (pls see it..) pls get back with me... thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eddiep803b (talk • contribs) 08:27, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

hd discography

but why wouldnt duff's camp have any records of 4ever? or could it just be a re-release of most wamnted to italy?? it dosent make sense. one refrence cant be enough to make the album reliable.. i am going to contact someome, to try to fix the problem, and see if i can get sales ww. for all albums of hollywood records/hilary duff camp. cause you must know its a really big issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eddiep803b (talk • contribs) 23:17, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. And about Teresa Teng

Hello. First of all I'd really like to thank you for your effort in keeping the best selling artist article tidy and true. And, well I am very new to this wiki edit thing, so I am wondering if I could ask for your help regarding an artist.

I know it is incredibly difficult to track record sales for artists whos no longer active, especially, in this case for the asian artists, since the tracking of sales were close to non-existent there in the past. I tried to delete Wei Wei from the list before as her acclaimed sales of 200million records were not quite close to reality. Her songs were popular in Mainland China for a brief period, but nothing more.

However I noticed Teresa Teng's name has also disappeared from the best selling artist list. Unlike Wei Wei, Teresa Teng was truly the most well known asian artist since the 1970 and 80s. Her music did in fact reach every corner of east asia. Even now there wouldn't be any chinese speaking person whos never heard of Deng LiJun(her chinese name) or Teresa Teng. Personally I am not a fan of hers as I only knew her from my parents and people of their generation, but it is rather impossible not to learn about her and how popular she was.

I've noticed that on her wiki page it says " To date she currently holds the record of being the highest selling Asian artist of all time with sales of over 100 million, slightly higher than that of Michiya Mihashi." However the article itself didn't have a reference either. Anyways, really sorry to have bothered you, if you don't mind I will try to search for reliable references to her record sales numbers in the coming days. But I am really bad with this Wiki Editing and I am rather scared to make any changes to that best selling artist article directly, so it would be really really appreciated if I do find something and I could post them to you so maybe you can help me add onto the main page if you think it's valid. Sorry for being so dependent.

Anyhow, I would really like to thank you again for your effort in keeping the page accurate for all the readers who believed to see the truth from the Wiki. As I was really glad Weiwei's name was removed from the list.

Best Regards Zeth333 (talk) 00:30, 6 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeth333 (talk • contribs) 12:59, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. - About Teresa Teng

Hello. Thank you again for your reply.

I had a read on those discussions but seems that none of the evidences were really solid either for or against the acclaimed number of record sold. And well, of course as chinese music industry in fact has started to develop recently, even now it is miles behind that of the western world in term of copyright, tracking sales and such, not to mention in this case, involving Teresa Teng, who was active 20 years ago, and had passed away for more than 10 years. I am afraid, even with the best of my abilities, it is rather impossible to find the actual number of the record sold. Well, I guess i can understand why her foundation had only estimated her record sales to be 100million.

Though I did find some useful information.

In Japan - [10] Shows all her singles released in Japan and their sales, which adds up to about 10million. Which matches what was stated in [11]

In HongKong [12] has record of the past gold/platinum discs certified in hongkong. (30000+ = platinum 15000~30000 = gold) Her albums were certified platinum 17 times and gold 10 times. It is also said that she had sold 5million albums in hongkong by the year of 1983.

As those were only singles or album sales numbers in Japan and HongKong whch should be only a small portion of the actual sales as she was very popular throughout the east asia, including singapore, malaysia indonesia and of course her home country taiwan and mainland china.

[13] has a list of her 1200+ songs and [14] has the cover art of her almost 100 albums released when she was still active, not including cassettes. Only explanation to such a huge number of songs and album released is that she must've been very popular and her songs were selling very well.

Last but not least, as her actual sales in mainland china is impossible to track, we can only estimate it with her popularity and influence. The official chinese website www.china.com.cn did an online poll of who is the most influential artist in china, in celebration of People's Republics 60's birthday. Teresa Teng won with 80million votes out of 250million total votes casted, 14 years after she passed away. [15] (Faye Wong being 2nd and Jay Chou being 3rd).

However, in the end I suppose those cannot justify her 100million acclaimed sales nor having her name on the Best-Selling-Artist page. In the end I felt like I have gone back to the starting point. I apologize wasting your time, and appreciate that at least someone saw this little effort of mine.

Best Regards. Zeth333 (talk) 00:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeth333 (talk • contribs) 09:11, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Regarding Teresa Teng

Hello. Thanks for the reply again:P. I am sorry that it must be so much trouble for you to work around websites in another language>.<.

For [16] each column from left to right means: Single Name | Signed Company | No. of Weeks on Chart | Peak Position | Sales (in 10s of thousands) | Date Released.

And for [17] the web address doesnt seem to change as you navigate. [18] has a summarised version of that with Album name listed as well.

About the [19] article, it says 'total world sales of her 25 albums are estimated by Billboard at 22 million, with another 50 to 75 million pirate copies'. Which 25 albums of hers are being mentioned here, as we know she has released about 25 albums in hongkong alone, and her albums are generally different in each region due to the difference in language spoken. [20] has a full list of her mandarin albums released in Taiwan/Hongkong. [21] is the list of her japanese albums. Well, and we know that one's record sales is generally much higher than that of the album sales. By all means I do not doubt the 22million mentioned for the 25 albums as I remember reading someone commenting that her albums generally hit the 1 million mark. However I just do not think that number is a complete and accurate indication of her total record sales number. (As shown on that blue table she had 10million single sales in Japan alone.)

And of course I mentioned that myself as well that the vote of her influence is by no means an evidence of her sales. But I guess at least you can probably see where the estimation of 75+million pirated copies by different sources come from. After all 100million is a rather huge number thats hardly believable for people whos never heard of her. As for mainland china in the 80s, I would be happily surprised if 10% of those records sold were legitimate ones.

Thanks again. Best Regards Zeth333 (talk) 00:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeth333 (talk • contribs) 00:26, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Last reply - Teresa Teng

Hello. Overall I'd like to say thanks for your continuing efforts over the past days. And yeah as I said in my first post, it is hard to prove that she has sold more than 50million non-pirated records even if she did, and we'll most likely get back to the start in the end. And I've never doubted the 22million estimation of Billboard, as its most likely to be her major 25 mandarin/canto albums after she has acquired much fame. However as I said in the previous post album sales is only a portion of an artists' total record sales. And in the end of course there is no way to estimate her total record sales just with those.

Having said that, I am a tiny bit saddened at the fact that you are still doubting the 75million pirated sales, after what I found and showed you in the past couple days, I must be really terrible at convincing people:P. I am pretty sure even your reliable source has said something about the 75 million pirated sales. The number really came about after her death I believe, I really dont think it has much to do with promotions.

In conclusion, after the search, I also agree that even if we could count all her legitimate sales, including singles, her earlier albums, the sales number would probably sit around 40~50million. (10~15 japan, 7~10 hongkong, 15~20 taiwan, 5 elsewhere since all her sales in china would probably be pirated copies).

And you know being honest I am just a university students who likes music, passing by that page, wanting to find out the truth, like you in a way. Personally I am not even a fan of hers, but her songs were special to me because they were what my mom sang all the time when I was little. However I do not doubt the acclaimed 75million pirated sales. To all the mainland chinese, she represented an era of music, many often noted her as the chinese MJ in term of influence (and their mysterious death). All the chinese female singers nowadays would probably tell you that Teresa Teng was their major music influence (such as Faye Wong). Her music did indeed reach every corner of china but not through radio because her songs were banned by the government, but through pirated copied cassettes. I hope you would at least believe that much:P Thanks again.

Best Regards. Zeth333 (talk) 01:33, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Backstreet Boys

As of recent I did some edits, which someone, somehow, someway unexplainably reverted and put the article again in its misery. So could you back me up regarding the work on Backstreet Boys in order to represent the best possible way this article. Thanks beforehand.

Regards: The Mad Hatter (talk) 12:42, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

I will look into it, perhaps the combination of your version and the version by anonymous IP will work together. Let me get back to this later today please.--Harout72 (talk) 16:49, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Could you also give a warning to KingdomHearts25 that we don't need Controversies section and stop adding unnecessary info about the Millenium album? Thanks beforehand.

Regards: The Mad Hatter (talk) 14:52, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I re-phrased the statements about the lawsuit to correlate them with the provided source, and also changed the title of the section into Legal issues. I also don't think Littrell's heart surgery is considered a controversy nor an issue, therefore, I moved those statements into the article.--Harout72 (talk) 16:41, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Can you act as a baby sitter or sorta to KingdomHearts25 and make a warning to him to stop damaging other people's work? Thanks beforehand.

Regards: The Mad Hatter (talk) 11:07, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

It is no use. We have to block KingdomHearts25. He is damaging hours of work, bloating the article with useless info and providing unreferenced claimes. He has to be blocked.

Regards: The Mad Hatter (talk) 15:35, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Anastacia

a ok sorry i don't knew... i will look for a valid source —Preceding unsigned comment added by AccendiLaLuce (talk • contribs) 19:16, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Cher UK certifications

Hello, I just wanted to let you know that Cher's certified UK sales according to the BPI site are not 5,5 mill but 5,9 mill. The thing is that when you search "Cher", two other Silver singles Dead Ringer for Love and Love Can Build a Bridge are not listed as they are duets. Therefore, it should bring the sum of certified sales to 38,3. Thank you! Uncleangelo(talk) 20:51, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

p.s. you may get confused as BPI didn't include Cher's name on the Dead Ringer for Love but it is a Meat Loaf and Cher duet, and it is almost always featured on Cher's GH compilations, thanks!