Michael D. Turnbull

Questions from Pygos

Greetings Michael D. Turnbull! I have recently been trying to turn chemical structures into svg., with a little bit of success. An example of my attempt is as follows:

Synthesis of azulene

However, the above image doesn't show up on my screen, and I am not sure if you can see it. Another attempt includes using the site: https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/edit/index.html However, upload attempts to wikimedia commons show error. Also, I have noticed that svg. files are rather rarely used when it comes to illustrating organic reaction schemes, most are in png.,so I'm not sure if it is better to use svg. Another question: do svg. files retain chemical connection information? Or is it lost just like in jpg. and png. files? Thank you for your patience in answering my questions! Pygos (talk) 14:51, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

@Pygos I think that what has happened here is that you have effectively put a .svg wrapper round an inherently .png file. Can you open the file in a simple text editor? You should be able to do so and if a genuine .svg would see details such as those described at the official website. Atoms will be there as text C,H,O etc and bonds will be described by things called "paths". In that sense the chemical connectivity is preserved but specialist chemical editing software can't read .svg files, so I always keep the native file from the application I'm using as a backup. I agree that most organic reaction schemes are .png but mine are not and neither are those from experienced editors here who try to conform to MOS:CSDG. In fact, I just today uploaded a file File:Isoxaflutole synthesis and reaction as propesticide.svg for an article I'm drafting, which is an .svg of only 17KB, despite having four molecule drawings and various text. Your ".svg" is 150KB for two molecules. Meanwhile, your best bet is to stick to .png and upload these to Commons: or we can work jointly on things by you emailing me a chemically-retained file (probably a .cdx as your software can export that) for me to convert to .svg. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:17, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Ah, that should explain things. I turned the file to svg. in an app called ＂image format transformer＂, so it must indeed be the ＂wrapper＂ thing you are talking about. I would like to thank you for your helpfulness regarding this issue, and I'll take my time and try to find a way to solve it without having to send images to you for conversion. But just like how you＇ve suggested, perhaps I will still use png. files for recent updates. Pygos (talk) 01:26, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Please double-check your previous uploads. It is against commons guideline to have an SVG that is just a wrapper around a PNG. DMacks (talk) 02:00, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes,there is indeed a mistake. If you can help me take it down, please do so. I tried to delete everything under the image but it seems that it refuses to let me do so. Thank you. Pygos (talk) 14:50, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

@Pygos To have the file "speedily deleted", navigate to its file page on Commons and add the template {{Db-author}} at the very top of the page. That lets admins there know that you, as author, have requested the file to be deleted. "Preview" before you save and you'll see how the template looks. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:07, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for taking care of it! On commons, {{FakeSVG}} is the general tag for this sort of problem if you come across it. DMacks (talk) 19:00, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you both for the instructions! I have labeled the image that was in an SVG wrapper. Pygos (talk) 00:37, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Question from ScienceOcean (20:36, 21 May 2024)

Hello, when editing STEM-based articles, what are common mistakes you look for? --ScienceOcean (talk) 20:36, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

@ScienceOcean Wow, that's a difficult question! My work falls into several parts but is typically limited to chemistry, so not all of STEM. I don't focus on fixing "mistakes", although I'll correct obvious ones if I see them. Rather, I look for stuff that's missing and for my area of interest this tends to be information on the synthesis of drugs and agrochemicals. As a result, I have drawn dozens of reaction diagrams (see my Commons contributions) and added sections to many articles to add these, including some such as nirmatrelvir and tirzepatide which get lots of views. In terms of fixing actual mistakes, my "best" contribution was probably to Naftalan oil: take a look at the Talk Page of that article at the point I was called in by another editor to sort out what "reliable sources" had got wrong! You are a new editor, so my main advice when you contribute to STEM articles or draft new ones would be to focus on secondary sources, i.e. reviews. The primary literature on STEM is overwhelming and Wikipedia's role has to be to provide an accessible account that will stand for the long term, not to leap on the latest just-published paper that might or might not be consequential. If you haven't yet done so, please read WP:MEDRS and WP:EXPERT for more background. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:49, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

@ScienceOcean I found this essay today, which gives an excellent introduction to contributing in maths or physics. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:53, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much Michael!

This helps a lot! ScienceOcean (talk) 20:49, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Question from AbuHaneefahAli (18:21, 23 May 2024)

Hi, I have created an article about the History of the Bangladeshi Diaspora in Salisbury, UK from the first settlers in 1960's until 2000. How can I get it published, I can only see it in my sandbox for now --AbuHaneefahAli (talk) 18:21, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

@AbuHaneefahAli Welcome to Wikipedia! I can certainly help you with the technical details of submitting your draft for review but before doing that I need to give you some news that may be unwelcome. Wikipedia only publishes articles on topics which are notable in the specific way we define that. In addition, readers must be able to verify that everything in the article is backed up by reliable already-published sources. Your ambition seems to be to describe the Bangladeshi Diaspora in Salisbury but, in practice, you have only mentioned a few families and based the information mainly on local newspaper references. These, in turn, relied on interviews with the people concerned, so in Wikipedia terms are not independent sources. Please read all the linked policy and guidance pages I've used and you should realise that your draft is not acceptable. I should also mention that I suspect you may be writing about people and events for which you have a conflict of interest, perhaps because they are your relatives or friends. Again, I urge you to read the guidance about that. By all means continue to ask me for advice here on my Talk Page once you taken in that information. Note that we already have an article about British Bangladeshis. By reading it you will see the level of detail that the encyclopaedia usually covers and the way we reference content. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:02, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

The things you stumble on when you start writing about teddy bears

[1] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:10, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

So that's the person now suspected of killing Kinser's son? I can see another draft "Murder of ..... " coming soon! Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:35, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

The person jailed for the murder for 40 years. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:13, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Have not had any more comments from Maggiehohle, perhaps she was disappointed with the article. Oh well. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:21, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't know what she expected, given the limitations of the sources. I was also disappointed she has not uploaded any photos either of her mother or of the toys, given that I mentioned on her talkpage she could do that as a useful further contribution. It will be interesting to have her reaction to the DYK.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:45, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Ah yes, COM:TOYS, no problems there, just prove to VRT that she owns the copyright of the toys, assuming she does. To be fair, some people are not comfortable with the "giving it to the world" aspect of donating pictures, and she might have a commercial interest. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:25, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Interesting. I hadn't realised that my teddy was copyrighted and hence could not be included in a photo with me! That doesn't explain the lack of a decent photo of Kinser, although the one you found is good as it shows her with her creations and the "fair use" extends to the toys shown. Mike Turnbull (talk) 09:00, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I think they can be considered "incidental" or something.

Off-topic, but File:Independence Monument (27506800337).jpg is an amusing example of bonkers copyright rules, see the licensing. From it follows [2] that it's not ok to make croppings of the statues on en-WP, those are "art", not "architecture". Apparently South Africa has similar FOP-laws. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:14, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Actually, I'm very aware of the lack of FOP in South Africa. I collect Shona sculpture and wanted to upload some of my photos to Commons: you can find lots of permanent displays of the sculpture in places like Kirstenbosch National Botanical Garden. If SA had the same rules as the UK, such uploads would have been fine but, sadly, they don't.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 09:26, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

That is sad. I don't suppose there's a helpful en-WP loop-hole? COM:SOMALIA is somewhat easier to deal with. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:42, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Question from Kasirson (05:40, 9 June 2024)

Hello sir, can you please guide me with your knowledge i am fast learner i have a question , how can i add new information about marketing most used and unknown for a lot of individuals? --Kasirson (talk) 05:41, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Kasirson and welcome to Wikipedia. This is not a marketing platform, unlike social media or websites for individual companies. Under the Terms and Conditions here, you must declare anyone who pays you to contribute to articles. Please read that linked page and also the one about promotion. If you have further questions after doing that, you can ask me here in this thread. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:27, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

You are a Good Wikipedian and for that i reward you a cute cat, enjoy sir!

UnKnownrNone (talk) 15:32, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Question from Tecla Pharise on Hinge (app) (10:42, 19 June 2024)

Hello How do I edit? --Tecla Pharise (talk) 10:42, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Tecla Pharise and welcome to Wikipedia. You have just made your first edit here on my Talk Page and editing the Hinge article will be done in a similar way. We have two lots of editing software, so-called "source" and "visual". General guidance on editing is given at this linked page and more specific details about the "visual" editor which newcomers usually prefer are at this page.In a moment, I'll add a set of other links to your own Talk Page, so you'll have them handy as you find your way around. It is worth saying that whenever you add content to an article, you should cite the source from which you have paraphrased the information. Good luck. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:51, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Question from Mustafa fryad (21:33, 23 June 2024)

How to crate web --Mustafa fryad (talk) 21:33, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Question from Mustafa fryad (21:37, 23 June 2024)

How to do a website --Mustafa fryad (talk) 21:37, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@Mustafa fryad I'm not sure from your questions what it is you wish to do. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia where people like you and me can contribute to its articles in English or in many other languages. It is not a type of social media and contributors are expected to restrict themselves to providing information relevant to building the content. That includes, if you wish, describing on your own userpage what your interests are and how you intend to contribute (see this page for more details). In a moment, I'll add some links to your Talk Page that should help you understand how things work here. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Charleen Kinser

On 30 June 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Charleen Kinser, which you recently nominated. The fact was ... that a mail-order catalogue offered a "Rocking Ram" toy, designed by Charleen Kinser, for US$1,600 in 1985? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Charleen Kinser. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Charleen Kinser), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 00:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Good job! My new project is Draft:Earl Bailly, which I found on Commons helpdesk. I was a little surprised when the proposer/creator said "The Lunenburg Art Gallery Society are the stewards of the Earl Bailly collection and legacy and have been offered funding for an educational space, but the donors expect a wikipedia page to exist before funding can be granted.", but thought "Screw that, I'll do it anyway." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:03, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

You seem to have good sources for that draft: I added a couple more on its Talk Page. It would be great if you could find a source for the Wiki-blackmail and name-and-shame the donors in the article! Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:22, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Please misunderstand me correctly! I put a cc-template at Draft talk:Earl Bailly, but there was no WP-blackmail [3], just newbie-ness. And unusual that a technically PAID new arrival suggests a subject that should OBVIOUSLY (imo) be on WP. I feel no particular need to name and shame potential donors to an art gallery in Nova Scotia. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:34, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

... but the donors expect... sounds pretty close to me ;-) Let me know if you want me to nominate again at DYK when you are finished, assuming you don't fancy the QPQ. Meanwhile I'm deep into sorting this mess. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:41, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

TBH, I'm a little disappointed neither Maggiehohle or Artstoronto could be arsed to make an after-publishing response. Oh well. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:04, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Yup, there are a couple of essays about that, e.g. WP:DNER. Mystifies me, too. Mike Turnbull (talk) 20:17, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Changing topic, I found another recurring "error" to pick at: If you autofill a source like Vogue, it will often fill the company name Condé Nast as author name, which looks quite plausible, but it's wrong, and the articles often has actual author names. See [4] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:56, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

I've never used autofill like that: my main go-to is the WP:Citation expander working from doi or isbn, which is usually excellent. I'm not sure who else might be interested in Wikignoming the Vogue one. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:02, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

I might get onto it. In other news, a dog I started a WP-article about met a king:[5]. Second time I know that he (the dog) has been mentioned in The Times. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:05, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Seems I whined a little too early. Apparently some people don't look at WP-talkpages for weeks at a time. Very odd and possibly illegal. This is the norm in the global population, surely. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:51, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

As DJT would say: ".... so sad". Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:19, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

As Judith Newman said, "Wikipedia may be a haven for cranks and pedants, but it is also amazing." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:38, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Indeed. I chanced across July 2024 global cyber outages this morning and it gives a much better account than my local news, with a global overview. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:40, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

And on the other foot, [6]. Like you said, it keeps us off thee streets. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:44, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I saw the discussion about that image, and considered it a clear "delete" based on policy. However, I didn't bother to comment as I am pretty sure that will be the outcome. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:57, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I was skimming it and was prepared to say delete, but at that point there was an article about the photo which had been kept. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:00, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

And thanks for pointing me to that scary story, I haven't checked news in hours. Apparently my laptop doesn't have crowdstrike software, I checked my folders per the WP-article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:58, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't look at the DYK-section very often (unless I'm in it), but today I saw "that the Puck Building has two gilded Pucks?" and to my surprise I realized that I actually did know that! From editing Puck, I think. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:58, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Question from Nimo wrytes (14:07, 9 July 2024)

Hello Michael,

i wanted to know how i will start with the writing of articles, would i have to write it on A word doc and upload it here or there is an option for me to do all my work here?

thank you for reading --Nimo wrytes (talk) 14:07, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Nimo wrytes and welcome to Wikipedia! There are two pieces of software that allow editing here. They are called the "source" editor and the "visual" editor. Both are explained in a tutorial you can find at the link Help:Introduction. Neither works quite like Microsoft Word but the visual editor is nearest to that and is usually what beginners choose. Long-standing contributors like me often to migrate to the source editor because it provides more control. Wikipedia editing in source has a "Preview" feature where you can see what the output will look like before you save it. My advice would be to start slowly by making small edits to existing articles (see WP:TASKS or your homepage tab for suggestions). In a moment I'll add a set of links to your Talk Page which you should read if you are serious about writing for the encyclopaedia. Regards. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:55, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

hello Mr. Michael

thank you for your advice and the tutorial links. and i apologies for the late reply. thank you again Nimo wrytes (talk) 13:37, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

@Nimo wrytes No apology necessary. As you will learn there is no deadline here. We are mostly volunteers, doing stuff as and when we can. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:29, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Question from Rfhu3u3 on Target Canada (21:34, 17 July 2024)

I can't post --Rfhu3u3 (talk) 21:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

@Rfhu3u3 You are currently indefinitely blocked. The only way to proceed now if you wish to continue contributing to en:Wikipedia is to use the process described at WP:APPEAL. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:00, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Question from RageAgainstDarkness (15:39, 26 July 2024)

Hello👋 how do I add a footnote that an acronym is unclear? --RageAgainstDarkness (talk) 15:39, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

@RageAgainstDarkness I assume this relates to your recent comment on Talk:International Atomic Energy Agency. You are doing the right thing: there are hundreds of editors who have that article and its Talk Page on their WP:WATCHLIST. Give it a couple of days and you should get replies. We do have templates that can be added to articles to indicate missing information (e.g. {{cn}} for "citation needed"). My own way to deal with this sort of thing is to put the acronym into the Wikipedia search bar which takes me to INES, a WP:DISAMBIGUATION page from which I infer the correct meaning in this context is International Nuclear Event Scale. I would then WP:WIKILINK the acronym where it occurs in the IEAE article. That's much better than tagging the acronym as being unclear and leaving it to others to clean up. Wikilinks are perfect for this. Regards. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:08, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Question from Verified.heartbreakerz (00:28, 12 August 2024)

I'm looking to create a Wikipedia article for 'The Heartbreakerz,' a vocal group I'm part of as the songwriter. I want to make sure I structure the article properly and use reliable sources. Could you guide me on how to present the group's background and our work to meet Wikipedia's standards please? --Verified.heartbreakerz (talk) 00:28, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

@Verified.heartbreakerz I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I would judge based on your brief draft that there is essentially zero chance of an article about your group meeting Wikipedia's policy of only describing notable musical groups. We even have a humorous take on the situation you are in which you should read. Articles here are based on finding and neutrally summarizing sources meeting these criteria, which simply don't exist currently. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:57, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Apologies i did remove it all, i will restore it and you can tell me what u think of it i thought I put too much information. Verified.heartbreakerz (talk) 12:08, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

@Verified.heartbreakerz Please don't restore the draft on your userpage. That's not the correct place for drafts and if you put it there an admin is likely to have it speedily deleted. Instead, you can follow the WP:AfC process (click that link for details). My strong advice is that should first work on existing articles on Wikipedia, so you learn a bit about our standards. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:12, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes but i did it yesterday i didnt need to restore it, i saved it yesterday on a word document i just written it out exactly from there on my laptop within Wikipedia standards. Verified.heartbreakerz (talk) 12:19, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Review help for potential article

Hey Michael! I'm not sure if you can see my sandbox, but I've been trying my hand at drafting an article.

I have been trying to comply with the wikipedia guidelines for drafting, and was wondering if you or anyone else could take a quick look and provide feedback?

Thank you! ScienceOcean (talk) 21:53, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

@ScienceOcean We have the WP:AfC process (see that link) which is designed to help new editors by providing feedback on draft articles. I'm not a reviewer there but can comment on your sandbox, which anyone can look at if they wish. Like many new authors, you have written the draft backwards: that is, you've written what you know and then tried to find sources to back up what you say. Read the link and you'll see why it is much easier to write the other way round. You have also failed the neutrality policy by saying things like [Dr. Chen has] a passion for community well-being. I don't understand why the draft has so much about Chen and relatively little about the May 9th day(s) since its inception. I would have expected more press coverage from Taiwan either commenting that people had taken part or explaining why they had not. One of the sources you have not yet used is a blog, which is no use for Wikipedia. You need about three decent sources meeting these criteria: reliable, independent and with significant coverage. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:34, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

I see! Thank you so much for your comments and feedback! This was extremely helpful. ScienceOcean (talk) 18:47, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Quick follow up question...there is actually a lot more press coverage regarding Taiwan No-Alcohol day, but it's Taiwanese press and the articles are in Mandarin. Would these still be useful to use as citations, or would I have to translate them? ScienceOcean (talk) 18:53, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

@ScienceOcean No you don't have to translate them, other than for yourself to confirm what they say, of course! See WP:NONENG for details. Best practice is to include translations for the titles and any quotes. See {{cite news}} for example, which has parameters that allow for translations, using |trans-quote= etc. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:09, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Question from TheCloudGuy44 (18:30, 13 August 2024)

Hello there,

I drafted a finalised Wikipedia page on my father, Brigadier General Al Faroque Siddiquee. I don't know how to upload it; could you please help me with that? --TheCloudGuy44 (talk) 18:30, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

@TheCloudGuy44 I can see the draft at Draft:Al Faroque Siddiquee and you have followed the correct process by using articles for creation. However, this draft has been "declined" by one of the reviewers who specialize in looking at drafts. I can see why they did that. The main reason is that you have not adhered to our policy explained here. All articles on living people must have full inline citations so that every single fact is backed up by a source, so that readers can verify the content is correct. To take one trivial example, how are readers to confirm his DOB? You may know this to be true but Wikipedia doesn't base articles on what its authors know, it bases everything on reliable published sources. In a biography, if you can't find a published source, it can't be included. We have an essay about this: we call it the problem of writing drafts WP:BACKWARDS.

All this will be bad news for you but I suspect that, with considerable further work, you can create an acceptable draft. Your father is likely to be wikinotable owing to his rank and service, which I assume will have meant that he will have been written about at length in reliable sources that are independent of him such as mainstream newspapers. If that isn't the case, then forget about developing the draft. Note that anything written by colleges etc. he has been associated with fails the independence test and can only be used for limited information in the way described here. That can include backing up information such as DOB. Get back to me here in this thread if you have further questions. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:14, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Question from Samuel Malasa Banda (17:51, 15 August 2024)

Hello, I am trying to publish an entry on Wikipedia. Can you help me review it? Thank you --Samuel Malasa Banda (talk) 17:51, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

@Samuel Malasa Banda I assume this is about User:Samuel Malasa Banda/sandbox. This can never become an article in the encyclopaedia because it has no cited sources. Wikipedia is not a social media site. It has strict policies about biographies of living people and you need to read that link to see why your draft is unacceptable. If you wish to continue writing about Kachale, then see the advice at this page. However, I would strongly advise you to forget about creating a new article until you have made contributions to existing articles and have learned about Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:35, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Question from ElielKwesi (15:51, 20 August 2024)

I also prefer technology, engineering and science related topics cus that's my niche so how do I go about them here --ElielKwesi (talk) 15:51, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

@ElielKwesi Welcome to Wikipedia! There are many ways to contribute and for science topics we have a number of Projects that specialise in working collaboratively. For example, I'm a retired organic chemist, so I joined the WP:CHEM group: see that link for details. All our projects are listed at WP:PROJDIR, so you should find something to interest you. Not all Projects are very active, however. My strong advice is to start by contributing to existing articles before you try to write one of your own. That's much more difficult than it may appear before you get to know your way around. In a moment, I'll add some useful links to your own Talk Page. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:19, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Is there any tech community available id like to start there 102.176.94.154 (talk) 17:48, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

@ElielKwesi Don't forget to log in before editing! I've already pointed you to the various communities. Technology is at WP:WikiProject Council/Directory/Science#Technology. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:01, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Porphyrinogen

These tetrahydroporphyrins are precursors to porphyrins. Oxidative dehydrogenation, I am pretty sure. Not only synthetically but in PPIX biosynthesis. But maybe my info is wrong?

PS sorry about trying to get your advice on borane business, I was looking for some outside advice from organic perspective. --Smokefoot (talk) 17:00, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, you are correct in general. However, in the case of meso-octamethyporphyrinogen all the methylene groups which link the pyrrole rings are fully substituted, hence there is no H atom which can be removed to allow the oxidation. Of course, these ketone-derived types are entirely synthetic: all natural porphyrinogens have CH₂ linkages between the pyrroles. No problem about pinging me on the boranes; I'm happy to add my 2p-worth on any chemistry topic but in that case I really know close to nothing! Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:11, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. Yes, Me8 derivative is a rock, apparently. --Smokefoot (talk) 17:27, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Substructure search

On 29 August 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Substructure search, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that you can search Wikipedia or a database of more than 37 billion compounds by substructure? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Substructure search. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Substructure search), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 00:03, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Question from McDee Pit on Kemin Industries (19:45, 29 August 2024)

Hello, how do I edit someone's article without removing efficient information? --McDee Pit (talk) 19:45, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

@McDee Pit Welcome to Wikipedia. The Kemin Industries article, as it is today, is truly terrible. Its only sources are the company's own writings, which tends to be promotional. Proper encyclopaedia articles are meant to be base on sources like these. If you can find such sources, then please do paraphrase them in your own words and add the information, citing them as you go. In a moment I'll add some links to your Talk Page which you should find helpful but for now, please read the pages I've linked here. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:02, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I will do so. McDee Pit (talk) 20:25, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

DYK query

Hello! A long time ago you very kindly helped me to begin to understand how to do the DYK process, (it was for my first bio and was for Carol Van Strum.) I have done it very rarely since but am trying with a nomination for Mary Jane Patterson at Template:Did you know nominations/Mary Jane Patterson. It is about to be timed out and is stuck! Some editors whose queries have been responded to now seem to have delayed or disappeared. I am unsure if I can do anything about it? Would you mind having a peep and letting me know if I should/can do anything? Thanks if you can. I am, as you may remember (!) pretty inexperienced at anything except from actually editing! Balance person (talk) 07:40, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

@Balance person It seems clear to me that your hook alt0b is fine: I wouldn't have been happy with the others, for the obvious reason that Patterson is a slave's daughter, not usually a relationship described as a "descendant". It looks as though Sionk was the person who first reviewed the DYK and I don't understand why they haven't approved it given their comment on 31 August. I'll ask them on their Talk Page in a moment. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:37, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

See Sionk's Talk page. You assumed the DYK wasn't approved but it already had been and now awaits the next steps in the process. It will go from WP:DYKNA to one of the prep areas when one of the people who specialize in DYK move it forward. There is no deadline now, so you can relax and don't need to make further comment on the template page unless someone pings you there. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:04, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh I see! I thought from Narutolovehinata5 comment on 30 August that something else had to happen. Sorry to have caused you extra work! Thanks so much for helping. Balance person (talk) 11:19, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

@Balance person Actually, it may be me who isn't understanding the issue, since I haven't run into it before. According to WP:DYKTIMEOUT the two months refers to the hook being promoted from the WP:DYKNA page to one of the preparation areas. There are details about this at WP:DYKPBR and the 2-month rule is "at the discretion of reviewers and promoters". I guess I could promote the hook myself, after making checks it is properly sourced in the article. However, I've never done that and am a bit hazy as to the process. Your nomination is currently the first one to be seen on the DYKNA page, so I imagine it will get attention from the experts who do most promotions fairly soon. If I were you, I would politely ask on BorgQueen's Talk Page if she would do the promotion. She is very active admin and works a lot at DYK (she promoted my latest one: see above here on my Talk Page). Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:41, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the idea, Mike. I have popped a message on her talk page. Fingers crossed! Balance person (talk) 15:52, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks again. It has now been promoted! Balance person (talk) 08:09, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Ok sounds excellent

Thank you T24boo 17:09, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

@T24boo You're welcome. The homepage tab you can see when looking at your userpage should now have my name associated with it. If it doesn't, please let me know. Incidentally, I am unlikely to respond if you ask in this sort of language. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Ok I’ll start by saying I didn’t know how to do things in my talkpage fair enough. I didn’t even realize that because my mentor went mia and I’ve been trying so hard to edit and so I did teach myself so I got me a few bots, did my manuals and here we are today. T24boo 20:28, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Question from T24boo (22:38, 5 September 2024)

Good day, If I see a revert rollback war going on what are the steps to take. I just did one for the first time and I hope I did it correctly. Can you check if you have time. Ty --T24boo 22:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@T24boo I assume this is about Flag of Tennessee, which I see has now been semi-protected by an admin. As far as I can tell, you and Nemov did all the right things: calling in your edit summaries for discussion (by the IP) on the Talk Page and warning them on their Talk Page. I haven't tracked down how the page protection happened but I assume it was via WP:ANI. A couple of learning points. The IP was removing content and providing reasons in edit summaries (however dubious) for doing so. Hence that's not strictly WP:VANDALISM, since the IP just disagreed about the content and we have a policy explained at WP:ONUS, which says The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content. So, strictly speaking, it was for you and Nemov to justify why the material should be in the article, rather than for the IP to justify why it should not be. Also, in these circumstances (content dispute, not vandalism) you must be very careful not to break the the three-revert rule or you may end up being blocked. It is always important to keep a cool head in these circumstances! Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:12, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Ok good and thank you for explaining it in detail so I can learn for the future. Have a good day. T24boo 13:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Helping Hand Barnstar

		The Helping Hand Barnstar
		This Helping Hand Barnstar is awarded to Michael D. Turnbull, for his mentoring and helping new users, and devotion to responding to user questions at the Tea house, Help desk, and WikiProjects. Your efforts do not go unnoticed; keep up the good work! (And here's some refreshment while you're busy helping!) Mathglot (talk) 22:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Question from Starfire Royaltin on User:Starfire Royaltin (12:46, 8 September 2024)

How to make a article about myself --Starfire Royaltin (talk) 12:46, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

@Starfire Royaltin Welcome to Wikipedia. Starting out on Wikipedia for the purpose of promoting yourself by means of a autobiography is a really bad idea, for the reasons explained at those links. Your userpage says that your claim to wikinotability (the main criterion we use to determine if an article here is worthwhile) is that you are a YouTuber. We have a few articles on American YouTubers but they were mainly written by someone other than the subject. If you insist on trying to write about yourself, then you must use the WP:AfC process, after declaring your conflict of interest. Read this advice and this essay and prepare to be disappointed. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:20, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Question from T24boo on Volume Gallery (14:44, 8 September 2024)

Volume Gallery - how do I get the template to allow me to enter citations. It just turns blue in visual mode. If that makes sense. --T24boo 14:44, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

@T24boo I rarely use the visual editor but there is a tutorial about it at Help:Introduction. As I understand it, for citations, you have to click the cursor at the point you wish to place a citation and then click the "Cite" part of the toolbar, which should create a tiny blue square where your cursor is. Then you click into the menu, which offers a "Manual" tab at first, with options including Website, Book etc. Obviously, you have to have in mind the citation you are going to use and be able to follow through the options as you go. An alternative method that some people use is to develop the citation in your sandbox and then copy/paste it into the article (using the source editor). Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:54, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Ok I tried it but it’s like the template won’t allow me to place the link where I need it to go. I’d probably have to practice in my sandbox yes I’m thinking too. I had them ready to go last night than I had to end because I got stuck on that but thank you again! T24boo 15:00, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Question from Johnny Rosen (Nashville) (15:27, 11 September 2024)

Want to start a page about me and my career in the entertainment industry --Johnny Rosen (Nashville) (talk) 15:27, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

@Johnny Rosen (Nashville) Welcome to Wikipedia. Starting out on Wikipedia for the purpose of promoting yourself by means of a autobiography is a really bad idea, for the reasons explained at those links. If you are an entertainer then you would need to meet the relevant wikinotability guidelines. If you insist on trying to write about yourself, then you must use the WP:AfC process, after declaring your conflict of interest. Read this advice and this essay and prepare to be disappointed. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:14, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

thanks

I have no idea how this works

. Not self promotion only documented info. 68.89.9.217 (talk) 17:16, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

@Johnny Rosen (Nashville) Please ensure you log in before commenting or your edits will be assigned to your IP address, not your username. If you have sources that are independent of you (so not based on interviews), and cover you in some detail in reliable sources such as mainstream newspapers, then there is a chance you could draft an autobiography but we experienced editors know that such ventures almost always fail. I can't stop you trying! Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:30, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Question from JusticeForChester (17:00, 12 September 2024)

Hello. How may I best edit Mike Shinodas page to express him being a rape apologist and a supporter of scientology? --JusticeForChester (talk) 17:00, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@JusticeForChester Short answer: very, very carefully and with solid backup from reliable sources. You are a new editor and I see that your suggestion has already been reverted by another editor. We have a process described at this link which explains how to proceed (via discussion on the article's Talk Page). Note that at every stage you need to abide by the policy for biographies of living people. Please read all the pages I have linked before you make further edits. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:36, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Question from Cubichedetampa (21:28, 26 September 2024)

Found an artist during the Cuban revolution that is not mentioned on Wikipedia. Although there isn't much about her online. Any suggestions? --Cubichedetampa (talk) 21:28, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

@Cubichedetampa Sources do not have to be online provided they are published (e.g. books). See WP:OFFLINE. My main concern would be that you are a newcomer here and won't understand yet the requirements for a new article, especially on what we call notability. I suggest you gain some experience editing existing articles, e.g. on other topics that interest you and after a while read the detailed advice. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:08, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Question from T24boo (21:57, 30 September 2024)

Hello, I have a question about expanding an article I’m working on that has controversial elements. Ive researched and its validity is confirmed. --T24boo 21:57, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

@T24boo Go ahead and ask the question but don't expect me to guess which article! Mike Turnbull (talk) 09:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

A cookie for your Teahouse tea.

I completely forgot to mention how folks with COI should look into getting edits done. Thanks for covering the gap. Maybe I don’t have the policy knowledge for the Teahouse yet, huh?
By the way, Paddy did the edit anyway… MM (Give me info.) ^(Victories) 17:44, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Question about Draft:Northeastern University Archives and Special Collections

Hello! I followed you here from the Teahouse. I included your suggestions and added a whole bunch of additional research projects that University Archives and Special Collections has contributed to. Would it be possible for you to take a look again? TIA!

Draft:Northeastern University Archives and Special Collections Gmecagni (talk) 14:27, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gmecagni The main hurdle in getting a draft accepted is usually to show notability, which is what our Teahouse discussion was about. Listing individual collections, all cited to the archive, doesn't help with that. If you like, I'll happily chop away at the draft to reduce it to what I think the reviewers will be looking for. Among other things, the lead part of the article should be summarizing the rest and not be the only place where you mention the subject strengths, for example. Indicate here in this thread if you would like me to work on the draft (probably mainly on Sunday next owing to other commitments) and I'll do so. Expect to see large parts cut but bear in mind that these can be added back later as they remain in the edit history. The idea is to make it obvious to the reviewer what confirms the notability. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:43, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I welcome your assistance with chopping the article down to size if you think that would help. I will try to add more descriptive language about subject stregnths in additional sections as well. Thank you! Gmecagni (talk) 14:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gmecagni OK, I'll give it a go on Sunday. One problem is that your academic sources (all the doi numbers) are written by staff at the library, as far as I can tell. That makes them not WP:INDEPENDENT. Incidentally, we have a gadget called the WP:Citation expander that can format citations correctly given just the doi, or you can use citer.toolforge which can take a wide range of inputs. That saves a lot of time! Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:20, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gmecagni I've re-jigged the article and explained what I've done in edit summaries and a comment at the top of the draft. If you are happy with my version, or after you have made further tweaks, I suggest you re-submit it. I think it should pass the review now. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:59, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much! I truly appreciate your help navigating the Wikisphere's notability requirement. I've resubmitted the article and fingers crossed it will pass muster this time. Gmecagni (talk) 11:29, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

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BGerdemann (WMF) (talk) 19:27, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

May I ask why Zytron was removed from the list of herbicides?

I can provide sources listing it as a herbicide if you like. RustyOldShip (talk) 14:15, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

@RustyOldShip I was just in the progress of writing on your talk page! As my edit summary said, my trusty old Pesticide Manual says Zytron was a Dow trade name for DMPA, which is already listed and exists in Wikidata, although there's no article for it. Similarly, penoxalin is a WSSA former name for pendimethalin, which we already have. I don't think we should be adding multiple names for the same thing but maybe you believe there are other chemicals which now get called these names, in which case I'd like to know what they are. BTW I meant to thank you for adding the new herbicide articles you recently created. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:24, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

For penoxalin, see top of PPDB. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:31, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

My apologies. I knew DMPA was another name for Zytron, but I thought Zytron was a common name as I saw it in scientific papers. Likewise penoxalin, (With an X?) though I had was not aware of any other names and thought it was also a common name.

I have been somewhat surprised that wikipedia editors rarely add textual content to the articles I make, it seems they mostly nitpick at formatting or sources (though in fairness they are usually correct and their edits are usually improvements) when from my perspective it is so easy to write text, I look up scientific articles and add anything that seems interesting. I note that your name often appears after edits adding chembox identifiers and other properties. RustyOldShip (talk) 14:35, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

@RustyOldShip Yes, penoxalin with an "x": I had a typo here which I corrected just as you were preparing your reply! The list of herbicides was created by me using the common names listed by BCPC mainly (who use DMPA) but interestingly pubchem have Zytron. I tend to rely on BCPC and PPDB as being the specialists in current pesticide ISO Common Names, with the Pesticide Manual as backup. I have a long history in pesticide research at ICI / Zeneca Ag and Syngenta, and have contributed to or started many articles here. My userpage lists some of them. I hope you'll be happy to self-revert on penoxalin, especially as I see you edited recently at pendimethalin. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:50, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

From Augnablik: disappeared conversation

It seems that our conversation at my Talk page has evaporated — hopefully just temporarily. What I see as the most recent activity is a lot of new notifications that threads I originated in the Teahouse have been archived.

😮 Augnablik (talk) 00:42, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik That would indeed have been unusual, if not unprecedented! I can still see them at User talk:Augnablik#Search-and-replace and in Special:Contributions. As usual, new notifications on your Talk Page have gone in below the old ones, just as this thread is now at the bottom of my Talk Page and earlier threads are in time sequence starting with the oldest at the top. I have auto-archiving set up here, which you may need at some point. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:31, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I see that you're right … I so rarely engage in conversation on my Talk page that what I was doing was looking for a message thread under your name, not the one I used when I posted in the Teahouse (Search-and-replace).

Okay, back to my User page, chastened.

Augnablik (talk) 12:09, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik On any standard browser, Ctrl-F can be used for search and if you had searched for "Mike" on your Talk Page, you would have found the thread. That sort of search is often useful on long pages. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:44, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, good to know. I'm beginning to see that many standard word processing tricks — like Ctrl F — also work in Wikipedia. Augnablik (talk) 12:48, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Nice work

I'm impressed with all you've done with this new editor. Joyous! Noise! 15:37, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm glad you approve. It was good to get a positive response from them, although that's yet to be translated into their editing of the articles in question. Many of the newcomers who ask mentoring questions here on my Talk Page end up abandoning Wikipedia, which is disappointing. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:58, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

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BGerdemann (WMF) (talk) 00:40, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Did you receive …

Hi, Mike. I’m not sure you received what I sent yesterday because I got confused where to send it: your talk page or mine, as we hadn't connected in awhile since you agreed to take a look at my "knotty problem." During that time, I was writing it up for you.

I think the message might be only on my own user page, though I did start off with an "@" for you.

In addition to my question of whether you got it, here's another. I'd expected to send you an attachment of my word-processed write-up but found I couldn't. Then I realised this was probably a security protection, but I wasn't at all happy with how it looked when just pasted into a message. It wouldn't be easy for you to read. Is there any way around this so you can see it formatted as in the original? Augnablik (talk) 13:50, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik I've been busy but was just about to take a look at your userpage in detail after the ping. There is no way to format a Word document into Wikipedia but you could send it to me via email. To start, there's a link on the right-hand "tools" menu on user pages and user talk page. My userpage also includes a specific userbox with the relevant link. The only downside from your point of view is that your own email address will be included the first message you send me. Initially, you won't be able to attach the Word document but when I reply from my personal email then we can exchange standard messages that do include attachments. Go ahead now if you want to do this. Otherwise, I'll reply on your Talk pge, which is the best place for the conversation since most of what you have written is already there. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:27, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Glad to know that the message reached you yesterday — it verifies for me that writing "@" with a user name works, apparently no matter what the source page is.

If you can really read the squished-up message, fine. Otherwise, I'd be happy to go the e-mail route, as you suggested with the addition of one additional step to make the attachment possible. I knew my e-address would be visible. Augnablik (talk) 15:46, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik You should just now have an alert saying I sent you an email! Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Question from Augnablik (19:25, 18 November 2024)

It was a joy to find myself adopted by you! We've already had many back-and-forths elsewhere, so this won't be my first question to you, just in our new roles. Nor will it be a practical one. But now that I know you and other assigned mentors often have 600 mentees at the same time, I can't resist asking you this:

Although I understand that not all assigned mentees continue the relationship with their mentors, how do mentors keep up with even those who do stay involved? What a balancing act you and your colleagues must engage in ... especially someone like you who's admitted to enjoying problem solving! :0 --Augnablik (talk) 19:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik I don't find it difficult to keep in contact with the 1% or so of editors who I become engaged with. Some of these are because of my replies to them at the Teahouse or Helpdesk, rather than because I'm their allocated mentor. If you look at my Talk Page here, + archive, you'll see the results. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:34, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

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Protected article editing (originally brought up at the Help Desk)

Hi, "Dad." After getting the suggestion you made at the Help Desk about how I could use a template to edit the doner kebab article, I went back to it to see if I could succeed with what you said. Frankly, I was confused by the directions, just as I had been by what another editor had suggested a little earlier. At any rate, when I re-read the alert message at the top of the article about its protected status, it turned out that autoconfirmed editors could edit after all — and so I was able to edit as usual.

This afternoon's adventure reinforced for me what a long way I have to go in using templates. Maybe the use of templates is one of Wiki's special tools for which there's a video (I hope).

It occurred to me to mention to you (perhaps needlessly) that even though you've adopted me, if I have a question like the one on editing a protected article that seems of more general interest for many other editors besides just me, it would make more sense for me to post at the Help Desk or even the Teahouse. That way I can save more individual questions I might have to ask you on your Talk page at another time.

And (spoiler alert): there is indeed another knotty problem plea for help coming up. But probably not for several weeks, as it will take awhile to get it written up for you. Augnablik (talk) 14:57, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Augnablik Yes, in general the Teahouse and Help desk will not only be faster but is where people can search archives to find the Q&A long-term. I'm still waiting for you to begin working on the biography article related to your previous knotty problems, where I've suggested the way forward! Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd like to go back over what I've already done with Ramendra's article and work on it some more in light of some of the things you brought up before I share it with you. The reason I put it aside for some months was not only because I felt I'd hit a wall on it but also because I was involved in a major move — which is just winding down. Also I have several other ongoing responsibilities to keep on top of and at the moment, I'm recuperating from a week of flu. Back in the saddle soon on Ramendra.ms article.

Augnablik (talk) 15:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Question from AAkurya (22:50, 20 November 2024)

An haife ni a garin kurya Madaro cikin iyalin (Idris abdullahi kurya) Abubakar Idris Kurya da Hauwa’u Suleiman. Sunka haifeni sun mini tarbiyya da nunamani ƙauna, sun kuma koya mani darajar gaskiya, haƙuri, da kuma taimakon juna. Mun yi girma a cikin al’adun Hausawa, inda aka koya mana mu girmama manya, mu yi aiki tukuru, kuma mu riƙe addininmu. Waɗannan dabi’u sun zama ginshiƙi na rayuwata. Na gode wa Allah da ya ba ni damar samun irin wannan tarbiyya da kuma dama ta samun ilimi. Ina kuma gode wa iyayena da dangina da suka yi min goyon baya. Zan ci gaba da kokari na domin na yi wa al’ummata da ƙasata hidima.” --AAkurya (talk) 22:50, 20 November 2024 (UTC)