User talk:Underbar dk/Archive18

Three Kingdoms cont.

Hi Underbar dk,

Can you view my talk page and see if the new format is acceptable, as you will see it saves a lot of bytes and keeps all functionality and add "sortable by the Chinese characters", please feel free to suggest any adjustments or pass this onto anyone else that may want to offer suggestions.
Thanks again
The Original Filfi (talk) 09:33, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

History of the Great Wall of China ... again

Hi my friend! As you know I have done some work to improve this article and hopefully get it to the GA/FA stage. As you are the original author, please would you decide which version of English you would like to use for the article? At the moment there are variations in the spelling of defence/defence and probably some other language variants that I haven't spotted. The same goes for dates: d/m/y or m/d/y. Best, ► Philg88 ◄ ^talk 10:12, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Ah, sorry for being inconsistent. I write in Canadian English, though I might be influenced by some American styles of English or date formats. Cheers. _dk (talk) 07:31, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't think it was you :) but I'll set it to American English and MDY dates anyway. Best, ► Philg88 ◄ ^talk 07:40, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Actually, it's now Canadian English :), I didn't realise that the script could do that! ► Philg88 ◄ ^talk 07:50, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCVI, March 2014

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File:StudioEgo.jpg listed for deletion

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A beer for you!

Hi there. I wanted to let you know that Kowloon Walled City, an article that you made significant contributions to, has been promoted to good article status. Thanks for your hard work, this beer is on me. Cheers! :) — MusikAnimal talk 01:46, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! And congratulations on getting the article to GA status! Maybe it's too long ago, I don't recall doing that much to the article other than simple housekeeping, you and Tktktk should share most of the honour of making this happen :) _dk (talk) 02:19, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of History of the Great Wall of China

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article History of the Great Wall of China you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Hchc2009 -- Hchc2009 (talk) 18:01, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:YZKDVDcover.jpg

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The Bugle: Issue XCVII, April 2014

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Your GA nomination of History of the Great Wall of China

The article History of the Great Wall of China you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:History of the Great Wall of China for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Hchc2009 -- Hchc2009 (talk) 15:31, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Lu Ji (Gongji)

Hey dk, nice to see you again! I created an article for Lu Ji (Gongji) but can't find anything in his biography to confirm that he died in 219. I tried looking up the Zizhi Tongjian and other parts of the Sanguozhi (biographies of Sun Quan, Lu Xun, etc.) to search for clues but still can't find any. It seems that many other articles about Lu Ji on the web (including the Chinese and Japanese Wikipedias and Baidu Baike) agree that he died in 219, but none of them provides a source for the year. I believe there must be some basis for 219. Any ideas? LDS _{contact me} 11:59, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi Lds, de Crespigny's Biographical Dictionary lists Lu Ji's years as 188-219 in page 617. He cites SGZ Wu 12:1328-29* for that entry. Cheers! _dk (talk) 16:04, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

I checked SGZ Wu 12 (vol. 57) but still can't find anything that confirms Lu Ji's year of death. I guess I'll just cite de Crespigny as the source. Thanks. LDS _{contact me} 02:04, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Can you help me with another problem? This is about the relationship between Lu Kang (Jining) and Lu Xun. The SGZ says Lu Kang was Lu Xun's 從祖父. The Erya defines 從祖父 as the cousin of a person's father. Going by this definition, Lu Kang should be a cousin of Lu Xun's father. However, this link (in Chinese) gives a detailed explanation of how the term 從祖父 might have been wrongly used in the SGZ and Jin Shu, and that 從祖父 (as it was used in SGZ and JS) actually referred to a person's granduncle (grandfather's brother) instead. If so, Lu Kang should be Lu Xun's granduncle. Any thoughts on this? LDS _{contact me} 02:23, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know enough to answer this. _dk (talk) 12:54, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

It's alright. I believe I've already found the answer to my question in Lu Mao's biography in SGZ: [又瑁從父績早亡， ...]. Lu Mao was Lu Xun's younger brother, so if Lu Ji was Lu Mao's 從父 (father's cousin), then Lu Ji was one generation older than Lu Xun and Lu Mao. Therefore, Lu Kang should be Lu Xun's granduncle. LDS _{contact me} 16:30, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

The Great Wall Barnstar

		The Great Wall Barnstar
		For excellence in your work on the History of the Great Wall of China. A tremendous effort! Hchc2009 (talk) 17:13, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you!! Your review has been most helpful in finding ways to improve this article and giving it the push it needs to become a GA :) _dk (talk) 01:22, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of History of the Great Wall of China

The article History of the Great Wall of China you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:History of the Great Wall of China for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Hchc2009 -- Hchc2009 (talk) 17:22, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Yue Jin

Was Yue Jin's birth year really 159, as the IP user changed to? LDS _{contact me} 06:07, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

No, no it wasn't. I somehow didn't revert the edit when I added the citation. My bad. _dk (talk) 06:12, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Battle of Red Cliffs

Was the strength of Cao Cao's forces about 1,000,000, as Cao himself claimed? This doesn't quite match what we have at Red Cliffs order of battle. I believe the IP user might not be wrong when he/she changed it to 800,000. LDS _{contact me} 06:18, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

I admit I had reservations making that revert...Thanks for calling it out, 800,000 is correct and I was too revert happy. It used to be 800,000 before and somehow some time ago it got changed without me catching it. _dk (talk) 06:55, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

The IP user was wrong about the 200,000 though. I corrected it and added a link to the source. LDS _{contact me} 07:19, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

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Yu Fan

Hey dk, can you help me verify Yu Fan's birth and death dates in de Crespigny's biographical dictionary? I can't find definite answers. His SGZ biography only provides his age at his time of death while the ZZTJ mentions that he died before 232. Thanks. LDS _{contact me} 06:53, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Rafe de Crespigny writes only "(d. 233)" where he usually lists birth and death years after the name Yu Fan (p. 994), with no elaboration on his age or birth/death years in the text. I don't know how much this helps but here you go. _dk (talk) 07:17, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

p.s. @Lds: In cases such as this where there is apparent contradiction between de Crespigny and the primary sources, I think it is worthwhile to ask the man himself by email. Cheers. _dk (talk) 15:49, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

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Foreign Trade in Imperial China

Hey _dk, hope all is cool. Slight problem with your changes to the template in that there are a number of American firms/people in the list and describing them as "Europeans" is not strictly accurate. I agree that at the moment British entities predominate but I am (slowly!) trying to reverse the imbalance. Moreover, the idea is that over time topics covered should expand to include tributary trade, Japan, Russia etc, which are most definitely not European. Similarly, I plan at some point to create pre-Qing era (and possibly post) articles. Cheers,  Philg88 ^♦talk 06:11, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Hey Philg88, great to hear! I am actually researching to write some articles about the Dutch and Portuguese experience in the China seas during the Ming dynasty. Chinese maritime history seems to be a weak spot on Wikipedia at the moment, so I hope we'll meet on those topics in the future! Cheers. _dk (talk) 07:09, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Good! But what about the Americans that are currently listed? The ping thing is easy. Just use {{ping|Philg88}}, which will display a leading @, or {{u|Philg88}}, which wont.  Philg88 ^♦talk 07:18, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Trying the ping thing! Philg88 I have altered the title of the template slightly, it reads "European and American trade in Qing China" now. Feel free to alter it in the future. _dk (talk) 07:26, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Sounds good and the ping worked. BTW, you can do the small ping using {{tinyping|Philg88}}. Best,  Philg88 ^♦talk 07:35, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Battle of Red Cliffs Analysis

Dismiss the proposed changes if you wish, as for all I know you probably have more study in the field and certainly more time to edit and cite sources, but I would seriously recommend that the analysis be revised so that its tone does not sound like the pro-Shu anti-Wei perspective typical of fictionalized accounts. Yes, the quotes derive from the Sanguozhi, but their inclusion has little purpose in context except to further glorify Guo Jia and denigrate Cao Cao the way its inclusion in the Romance is intended.

Also, I strongly believe that the opinion that Red Cliffs would not necessarily be decisive should probably be mentioned at least somewhere: "If you can deal with [Cao Cao], then everything will be settled in our favour. If things turn out badly, however, come back to me here, and I shall myself fight the deciding battle against him." I don't have the original Chinese text, but I'm sure you'll be able to find it and properly source it somewhere. Perhaps I am going too far in the opposite direction of the Romance's exaggeration of the battle's importance, but there should be an acknowledgment that the Romance's influence affects even the opinions of serious historians. For instance, consider mention of Rogers' "Myth of the Battle of the Fei River," who goes so far as to question if a battle even took place at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.52.91.135 (talk) 04:32, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your detailed suggestions. I can see what you mean by the Guo Jia mention. Rafe de Crespigny has discussed how decisiveness of the Red Cliffs battle in his Generals of the South, where he, funnily enough, mentioned Rogers's "Myth" paper as well. De Crespigny was of the opinion that while the battle itself wasn't the sort of winner-take-all gamble as characterized in the novel (since Sun Quan's reserves were in Chaisang in case the Red Cliff battle goes south), Red Cliffs became the decisive battle over the years since Cao Cao didn't try to cross the Yangtze again. So yes, de Crespigny says the Romance could have influenced views of Red Cliff's importance, but it is indeed overcompensating to treat this battle as Rogers does for Fei River. _dk (talk) 05:11, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue XCIX, June 2014

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DYK nomination of Nossa Senhora da Graça incident

Hello! Your submission of Nossa Senhora da Graça incident at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:31, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Please note that I have also listed the page at Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2014 June 27. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:56, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

@BrownHairedGirl: Hi, I have replied on both the DYK nom and the copyvio nom. I must repeat again that the copyvio nom be immediately withdrawn, since WP:CPI says specifically: "If you suspect that a page contains a copyright violation, but you cannot find a source for the violation (so you can't be sure that it's a violation), do not list it here." I do not believe it is proper procedure or in good faith to assume the article was a copyvio just because it is only sourced from a single author, without even providing the page numbers where you think the article copied from, with the result that the new article is now being effectively blanked for at least 7 days. _dk (talk) 00:50, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, but no. I won't withdraw it. It is best to centralise discussion, see my comments at DYK and CPI. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:19, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

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DYK for Nossa Senhora da Graça incident

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:09, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! The nomination process for this one was...interesting, to say the least. _dk (talk) 14:00, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

You can say that again - it put me off DYK nominations. But congratulations on getting your article featured! :) Kolbasz (talk) 22:36, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! However it went, having another editor stumbling onto my new article and deeming it worthy to nominate for a DYK is an honour enough for me, getting it featured on the front page is an added bonus :) _dk (talk) 04:51, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Hundred Family Surnames

This is unfair. I spent so long to do that table, but it still must have Simplified Chinese in the text no matter what. I understand that the original text is in Traditional Chinese, but only Taiwan uses that, which is very unfair. What if other Americans see that and write that in China? It applies to List of common Chinese surnames. Thanks, Nahnah4 | Any thoughts? Pen 'em down here! | No Editcountitis! 06:37, 3 August 2014 (UTC) PS Ping me if you replied.

@Nahnah4: I also spent very long to get it in that format, if you want to use that argument. The Hundred Family Surnames article serves a different purpose than the list of common surnames, specifically the HFS article is about a Song dynasty document and not a list of names. Therefore if we must reproduce its text we must do it as it was originally. We should not cater to hypothetical Americans who might use traditional Chinese in China (what's the harm in that?), since WP:USEFULness has never been a consideration on what Wikipedia ought to include. _dk (talk) 06:56, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Underbar dk, you do not need to spend hours on that. Firstly, you could have just depended on rollbacking by using Twinkle, which undos all my edits (even if the number of edits are 10) and I am not trying to spark an argument. Secondly, The HFS article may be in the Song Dynasty, but we have already gone through the modern stage. So what? Like Ouyang Xiu, his name in Traditional Chinese is 歐陽修. Nonetheless, people has already changed it to 欧阳修 in Simplified Chinese. I have seen some books where Ouyang Xiu's Chinese name and the whole book were written in Simplified Chinese. It applies to Zhuge Liang, whose name in Traditional Chinese is 諸葛亮 but in Simplified Chinese, it is 诸葛亮. You see? I can just simply changed the title "Complete text" to "Surnames", which can change the whole thing. Of course, there is harm in using Traditional Chinese in the People's Republic of China, as they use Simplified Chinese. Only Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau and Kowloon uses Traditional Chinese now. Why should I not compare to Americans? It is indeed true that they might want to learn Mandarin (although I know it is ridiculous to use them in an article on Chinese surnames). I feel that the complete text IS a list of Baijaixing, and the heading should not be named "Complete text" in the first place. I do not acre, but it is seriously irritating to see Traditional Chinese in Wikipedia. You can compare to the Chinese Wikipedia, their surname Infobox all uses Simplified Chinese. See the Chinese article for surname 李 for instance. The Infobox does have the position of the surname in the Hundred Family Surnames of Song Dynasty, and they are all written in Simplified Chinese. I don't see why you had to actually revert my edits, and I understand that you accepted my edits as good faith edits. In conclusion, I think it is stupid and weird to actually not use Simplified Chinese in that article, as there are already more people using Simplified now. Signing off, Nahnah4 | Any thoughts? Pen 'em down here! | No Editcountitis! 06:24, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps it is more fruitful to have this discussion in the open, on the talk page of Talk:Hundred Family Surnames and maybe in WT:CHINA where most editors for China-related articles hang out, since we clearly have polar opinions. That said, the development of the Chinese language is of no concern to the English Wikipedia. The Chinese Wikipedia actually can avoid the simp/trad debate since they have a converter for readers who prefer one over the other, but this is not an option here. I retain and repeat the view that I find the current arrangement reflects the original text (in its traditional form), as well as making the rhyming couplets more apparent (this is noted in the Form section), and simply more aesthetically pleasing. (You misunderstood my comment about "spending a very long time", I mean to say I was the person who made the list in its current form in the first place.) Best wishes. _dk (talk) 06:54, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

	The Anti-Vandalism Barnstar
	Thanks Lee788 (talk) 14:52, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history coordinator election

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