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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/June 2011

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June 30

June 30, 2011 (2011-06-30) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sport

Hugo Chávez health issue

Article: Hugo Chávez (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez undergoes cancer treatment in Cuba. (Post)
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Chávez is an important international figure and his health concerns have major politic effects. Presidentman talk·contribs Random Picture of the Day (Talkback) 21:50, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now. Cancer is not exactly a death sentence these days. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:32, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 Egyptian revolution

 
A protester braving Tear Gas near the AUC during the June 28.
Article: Timeline of the 2011 Egyptian revolution under Supreme Council of the Armed Forces#June (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ More than 1,036 people are injured in violent clashes between protesters and security forces in Cairo's Tahrir Square (Post)
News source(s): (Al Jazeera)
Article updated
Support - as nominator. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 20:27, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - major news.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:02, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. More than 1,036 people injured actually. This seems a significant enough development for Egypt as it has not been in the news as much as Libya or Syria recently. --candle•wicke 22:24, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So we need a blurb and the article needs a lil updating. Also managed to find 3 photos on injured protesters during the event; 1)File:Treating an injured man in Tahrir during the June 28.jpg 2)File:Injured Protester near Tahrir Square during the June 28.jpg 3)File:Protester Waleed during the June 28.jpg 4)File:Braving Tear Gas near the AUC during the June 28.jpg. We can use anyone you see fit -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 00:53, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose civil unrest is rampant, the article says that authorities confronted "5,000 rock-throwing protesters in central Cairo late Tuesday" yet the article on the revolution itself had 3 categories on how peaceful it all was/is until I removed those (now obviously) inaccurate POV categories. Apart from the mundanity of revolutionaries finding out that the new boss is same as the old boss, these articles are not in good shape for the update proposed until the POV is totally removed (a few category deletions is nothing but a start of chipping away at it). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:10, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Since, the proponent of this ITN has a POV he wants us to push for him - that this revolution is non-violent, he replaced the categories - so if nothing violent occurs there, there's no news and WP is not a propaganda tool. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:35, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support -- 41.130.237.176 (talk) 00:44, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose and dispute the ready designation. A big protest for sure, but nothing that's qualitatively different than what's happened in the past and no indication that anything significant will result. Also, the updated section reads like a news report. Posting this would treat ITN like a headline news service. RxS (talk) 14:19, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Whitey Bulger

Never mind. Missed this one last week
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Article: Whitey Bulger (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Alleged crime boss and seventeen-year fugitive Whitey Bulger is arrested in Santa Monica, California. (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post NPR Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
Number 3 longest serving member of the FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives is arrested last week and is being arraigned in Massachusetts. Major crime figure. All over the news for the past week or so. --Jayron32 17:31, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This has been posted on ITN recently. --candle•wicke 17:35, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Whoops. Scratch this then. I musta missed that one. Never mind. --Jayron32 17:37, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] (re-nomination) Wedding of Albert II, Prince of Monaco, and Charlene Wittstock

And corrected the dates this time;P--BabbaQ (talk) 15:28, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support obviously, The Monarchy there is head of state. The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 15:34, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support per above. This wedding appears to be on time. --candle•wicke 17:06, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • I might be jumping to conclusions here but my gut instinct is Strong oppose. This is the mere wedding of the Prince of Monaco, not a new head of state. Monaco is a micro-state mainly significant has a gambling and tax haven--it barely qualifies as a sovereign state. I see this as equal in significance to the marriage of a powerful CEO, which wouldn't be considered. Also I don't see any mention of this on teh BBC and it would appear that this is a more significant story.--Johnsemlak (talk) 17:54, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the most glamorous and the richest country in the world, and the Grimaldi dynasty runs the principality since 1297. Crnorizec (talk) 21:25, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Love a good royal wedding. - JuneGloom Talk 21:56, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - A wedding in a high profile monarchy. Also agree with various points from above, mostly with the rich old dynasty point.RaintheOne BAM 22:12, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - A wedding in of a head of state. Mtking (talk) 03:02, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Wedding of a head of state. Yk3 talk ~ contrib 05:16, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Royal Wedding involving a reigning monarch should be an ITN/R item. Far more notability than someone who isn't even next in line to he throne enjoying a beano abroad at the taxpayer's expense. Mjroots (talk) 06:49, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support First marriage of the reigning monarch of a famed, if tiny, nation. And, to User:Johnsemlak, Yes, you're jumping to conclusions, jumping straight over the last sixty years. Albert's father, Prince Rainier, brought extraordinary economic growth to Monaco; while gambling accounted for more than 95 percent of the country's revenues in the first half of the last century, Rainier expanded the country's economy to where, at his death in 2005, gambling accounted for only three percent of revenues. Vatican City is pretty small too, but if the Pope got married, we'd post it. ;) Abrazame (talk) 22:36, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    @Abrazame--thanks for the response; most other people didn't bother and just posted 'support--big wedding' or something. My concerns are somewhat allayed but I'll note that the significance attached to Rainier doesn't extend to Albert. I take your point about the expansion of Monaco's economy (though I still believe it's primarily known as a tax haven and gambling resort). But Monaco remains a semi-independent country with no military to speak of and no currency (ok, lots of countries use the Euro but the Monaco simply use it as an attachment of France, not as an independent member of the Eurozone). So I'm not entirely in agreement that Albert's status as head of state grants him any automatic ITN status. Another concern I had is that there's an article on this wedding but Rainier's wedding with Grace Kelley, surely much more notable, doesn't have an article. That smacks of WP:RECENTISM.--Johnsemlak (talk) 04:06, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It probably is recentism, but there's nothing stopping you from writing an article on that wedding. Mjroots (talk) 05:17, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe its time to post it now.--BabbaQ (talk) 19:06, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Marking [Ready]. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:36, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(withdrawn) Wedding of Albert II, Prince of Monaco, and Charlene Wittstock

Scrapped nomination
Im nominating this news now so a consensus can be reached before tomorrow on this.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:11, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oooooooops sorry guys. My mistake.. Its ofcourse july hehe.. Changed it.--BabbaQ (talk) 15:26, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have withdrawn this one and re-nominated it for it to be fair.--BabbaQ (talk) 15:29, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed HTD and I should probably arrange a fish fry in your honor The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 15:34, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] World's longest cross-sea bridge opens

Article: Jiaozhou Bay Bridge (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The 36.48-km Jiaozhou Bay Bridge, world's longest cross-sea bridge, opens in China (Post)
News source(s): http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2011-06/30/c_13958695.htm
Credits:

Article updated
Support, clearly a notable infrastructure project. Thue | talk 11:01, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support Very important and a pure ITN item. We should post more such records as they occur.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:16, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • List of longest bridges is a bit of mess, is there a more specific list we can link to? The article on the bridge itself is reasonable, but I'd like to see a bit more substance (and certainly more than one source) before this is posted. Not often we get to post an engineering story... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:42, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've removed the tag from the List of longest bridges in the world. Certainly there are few places that need more of clean-up, but the tag was very old and outdated and the article seems to have been improved significantly over time. Also I've added one more source and few more lines. GreyHood Talk 15:15, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. --Tone 10:45, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Beijing–Shanghai High-Speed Railway opens

Article: Beijing–Shanghai High-Speed Railway (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The 1318-km Beijing–Shanghai High-Speed Railway opens after 39 months of construction (Post)
Article updated

AFP,Wall Street Journal.

According to our article its due to open at 3pm Beijing time, or 07:00 UTC. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:37, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Article is in decent shape; however, Beijing–Shanghai_High-Speed_Railway#Engineering_challenges could use some references. SpencerT♦C 01:31, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Which is irrelevant as it isn't the section being targeted. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:23, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Didnt we just discuss this a couple months ago? When it was completed? The Resident Anthropologist(talk)•(contribs) 01:44, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
My mistake it was the Kunming–Singapore Railway. The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 04:10, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • On the fence Its not record breaking, New technological break throughs, nothing terribly special about it other than running between two major cities. The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 04:10, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Except for probably being the biggest single transport infrastructure project since the Channel Tunnel. The longest high speed line ever opened in a single section etc. etc. In terms of long term usefulness given it links two cities of 20 million apiece (and Nangjing on the way has 8 million) its probably the most useful high-speed line opened since the Tōkaidō Shinkansen back in the 1960's. As its only open for services starting over a 13 hour period (given the 5 hour run) the Chinese are running nearly 7 trains an hour on the line, which is a huge number. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 06:50, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - A major step toward curbing pollution in the world worst polluter. Will some forward thinking people please construct something similar in the world's second worst polluter? Marcus Qwertyus 04:23, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - This is the most import HSR corridor in China. And I am currently waiting for the first train in Beijing South Station. I will update with photos on my Twitter. All my photos of this trip will be released in CC-BY. Feel free to use them here on Wikipedia as I am on my phone, not easy to upload them on the go. Python eggs (talk) 05:35, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. --Tone 07:23, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 29

June 29, 2011 (2011-06-29) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime
  • A lawsuit of $25 million is brought by the mother of a U.S. teen, who was kidnapped, bound and forced to consume alcoholic substances before his death at a fraternity house, against the group responsible for his ordeal in the U.S. state of New York. (BBC)
  • Six members of a paramilitary force and a civilian are charged with murder in relation to the death of unarmed Sarfaraz Shah in Karachi, whose 8 June shooting was filmed and later broadcast on television. (BBC)
  • A court ruling restricting the powers of police bail throws thousands of cases in England and Wales into disarray. (BBC)

Politics and elections

Sport

[Posted] Brighest Object in the Galaxy found yet.

Article: ULAS J1120+0641 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The most distant and brightest quasar found yet, ULAS J1120+0641, is discovered providing a window to study the universe just 770 million years after the Big Bang. (Post)
Credits:

 Crispmuncher (talk) 06:52, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good News: According to an article in Nature a quasar has been declare the bightest object in the Galaxy. bad news: After reading Quasar I still have no idea what one is... The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 20:26, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As pointed out by following comments, this is the farthest and brightest observed astronomic body in the Universe, as opposed to our Galaxy. --hydrox (talk) 04:49, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Thanks to Resident Anthropologist for drawing my attention to this. Some points:
1) That's not in the galaxy. Not by a very long way. In fact the interesting bit is how far away it is (see below).
2) Quasars are a form of active galactic nucleus, caused by a feeding supermassive black hole at the centre of another galaxy.
3) The brightness of this quasar is nothing new. What is a record is its distance (measured by the redshift) - higher than any previously known quasar. Two galaxies and one gamma ray burst are the only objects known at higher redshifts.
4) The quasar should probably have its own article, ULAS J1120+0641, as most record-breaking redshift objects do.
5) This is a confirmed spectroscopic redshift, so it's a real measurement and not a candidate. Certainly meets my requirements for reliability in science stories.
6) I support posting this. I've just finished a night of observing myself, so don't have the time to write an article now. I might be able to at some point in the next 48 hours. Modest Genius talk 02:20, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Someone at WP:RDS came up with another source, this Scientific American article, which is written in a more approachable manner. --Jayron32 02:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose pending urgent clarification. I admit I haven't gone through the linked articles in detail and at almost 4am local time it's far too late in the day to be doing that now, however, as Modest Genius points out, quasars are extragalactic objects. As such the opening comments are clearly wide of the mark and mis-state its significance. Crispmuncher (talk) 02:55, 30 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
    • We'll fix that up. The fact that this object is of a superlative nature (highest confirmed redshift for an object of its type, farthest object yet discovered) means that its a topic worthy of posting. That the first person to nominate it here didn't know enough astrophysics to get the details correct in the title of the thread doesn't mean the event is not ITN worthy. When the blurb gets written, we'll be sure to have all the details correct. --Jayron32 03:19, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Just for the sake of form, still tired, but now inebriated. That means this comment means nothing, except as an ackowledgment that I've templated it to try an get a definite proposed article and blurb out of this debate. Crispmuncher (talk) 06:58, 30 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
  • Note I just put together a brief article, ULAS J1120+0641. I'm not an astronomer, but I do know something about this stuff and I'm reasonably confident that the description is not too far off the mark. It would certainly be useful for an expert to check it over, though. I was also unable to fill in some of the information for the infobox, because I don't actually have access to the Nature paper from home -- I worked from the abstract and from the Scientific American news account. Looie496 (talk) 03:17, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Fascinating stuff.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:25, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm curious how to describe it, the most distant quasar and the brightest object? [1] RxS (talk) 04:15, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support when article gets a bit more expanded with data. I guess we can assume that it is the oldest and brightest astrnomic object known. Gemini.edu source --hydrox (talk) 04:36, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per hydrox. The article needs more work and the blurb needs rewriting, but at least we mostly agree the subject is worthy. Jusdafax 04:47, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support cause it's big. Added blurb and link to article. The quote comes from the end of the article at Nature. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 08:20, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Humm, my first blurb:
The most distant and brightest quasar found yet, ULAS J1120+0641, is discovered by European astronomers who report it origins to be less then 770 million years after the Big Bang and believe it "will remain a vital probe of the early Universe for some time."
is too long. Changed it to:
The most distant and brightest quasar found yet, ULAS J1120+0641, is discovered providing a window to study the universe just 770 million years after the Big Bang.
I hope that is better. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 09:00, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note - I can't see anywhere in the paper any claim that this is the brightest astronomical object detected. Various news sources are claiming 'brightest in the early universe', which just depends how you define 'early universe'. If you mean 'beyond redshift 7', there are only 4 such objects. Other news sources are claiming 'brightest in the universe', but I think this arises from a misunderstanding of the above. The paper even compares the spectrum to other (lower-redshift) quasars of the same luminosity. Modest Genius talk 12:31, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So we're down to the most distant quasar? I don't think I see anything saying it's the brightest quasar. RxS (talk) 14:26, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's probably enough... being the most distant quasar means it is also one of the oldest things ever found, and the implications for connecting to the early universe seems important enough to deserve mentioning at ITN. This is very much a unique find, and not just a run-of-the-mill "Oh look, its another star" sort of things. --Jayron32 14:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, I just wanted to make sure we're not claiming more than is the case. RxS (talk) 14:32, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The Atlantic reports it as Early Quasar Is Brightest Object Ever Found in the Universe. The contention seems to be: since it is farthest and the light still reaches earth, it must be the most luminous. If that is correct, I don't know, but I guess we could say in Wikipedia, we calls 'em as they sees 'em. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 19:05, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The Atlantic is wrong. The Nature paper says the quasar has a luminosity of 6.3e13 L_sun. That's above average for a quasar, but unremarkably so. Known quasars have luminosities up to at least 100 times that number (cf. e.g. [2]). Modest Genius talk 09:25, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for finding the correct information. I looked myself, but not having any background in the area couldn't find it. I kept finding lists of magnitudes instead of luminously. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 17:14, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I just had a once-over of the article. It's not brilliant, but certainly good enough for ITN. Ready to post, but with the following blurb:
Modest Genius talk 10:21, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posting. --Tone 12:11, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GRB 110328A gamma-ray burst

Article: GRB 110328A (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ "This is truly different from any explosive event we have seen before," said Joshua Bloom of the University of California at Berkeley, the lead author of the study published in the June 2011 issue of Science about GRB 110328A gamma-ray burst probably caused by a star which wandered too close to the central black hole in the galaxy and was gravitationally torn apart and swallowed by it (Post)
News source(s): http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/4428/black-hole-eats-star-produce-gamma-ray-flash Cosmos], Physorg
Article needs updating
Oppose. Whilst this does appear to have been an unusual GRB, the explanation is little most than informed speculation at this point. Modest Genius talk 09:45, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Greek austerity vote, protests

Article: 2010–2011 Greek protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Amid heavy protests, the Greek parliament passes austerity measures in order to win the latest tranche of a 110 billion euro loan of the EFSF. (Post)
News source(s): BBC News, Deutsche Welle
Article needs updating

June 28

June 28, 2011 (2011-06-28) (Tuesday)
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[Posted] Taliban attack political targets in hotel in Afghanistan

 
Article: Hotel Inter-Continental Kabul (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Six? are killed in a Taliban assault on the Hotel InterContinental in Kabul, Afghanistan. (Post)
News source(s): latimes.com, hindustantimes.com, voanews.com
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Attack attempted to achieve the killing of many state and federal leaders attending a briefing on the reduced role of the U.S. Military in Afghanistan. Marcus Qwertyus 03:59, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Taliban kill 10 people during an attack on a Hotel InterContinental in Kabul. [4] Truthsort (talk) 21:58, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably you meant 'Kabul' and not 'Kabal'? Blurb changed accordingly. --Ohconfucius ¡digame! 02:49, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And I assume you mean Truthsort, the nominator, not me. But while we are cleaning up matters, the blurb appears to be in error. I'm seeing 'only' seven dead in the New York Times and the LA Times has it six. Those numbers don't include the now-killed attackers, who appear to have been about six. Jusdafax 03:00, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Veteran prime minister to retire

 
Michael Somare in 2009
Article: Michael Somare (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Veteran Prime Minister of Papua New Guinea Sir Michael Somare (pictured) retires. (Post)
News source(s): ABC News
  • Oppose for now pending official notification from either Somare himself, his legal representation, or the PNG government directly. The language in the reference is very ambiguous, and only speaks of his "family's collective desire that Sir Michael be allowed to recover at his own pace and therefore retire". This, if officially confirmed, would be ITN worthy, but so far this isn't a positive enough confirmation of the event, and is merely speculative in nature. The article cited ITSELF says "Theresia Kumo, the director of the Sir Michael's media unit, told ABC News Online that reports the prime minister had resigned were incorrect. She said Sir Michael's family was simply stating their position on his future to the public, and added that Sir Michael is still PNG's leader." This is not a ringing endorsement. --Jayron32 20:40, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Looks like the 3-time PM is so close to death that he is incapable of resigning for himself. That fact alone makes it worthy of ITN exposure, if only for a few hours until more exciting/worthy news replaces it. --Ohconfucius ¡digame! 02:57, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes, but we don't have any confirmation that he actually retired/resigned/officially forced from office yet. We just have some family members essentially saying "He's really sick, so we're retiring him for himself" and the contradictions from his own colleagues which state he hasn't actually retired. This will be a story soon (when he either dies or does actually retire) and if he's so close to his death bed that his official retirement or death is iminent, there's no need to "jump the gun" just to get this blurb out there early. Take our time, get it right, and when something real happens, THEN it would be a good idea to post it. NOW is not the time, LATER will be the time. --Jayron32 03:02, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose until we have a successor, who would be the news... Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:12, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Lagarde named IMF Chief

Article: Christine Lagarde (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Christine Lagarde is named managing director of the International Monetary Fund, effective on 5 July. (Post)
News source(s): BBC News WSJ
Article updated
Alternate date: 5 July, when she will take office. --bender235 (talk) 20:48, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Google antitrust lawsuit

Article: Google (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Google faces a €295,000,000 antitrust lawsuit in France amid wider allegations of anti-competitive practices. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, Sydney Morning Herald, BBC
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Google, among many antitrust complaints/allegations, has been sued by 1plusV (hmm...no article) for €295,000,000 ($423 million USD in some sources) in damages it suffered from alleged anti-competitive practices by Google. This seems to be getting international coverage so I thought I would at least nominate it. Two things: I don't have time to do the update myself right now (figuring out this nomination template took up most of my time) so if someone else could please update the article that would be a great help, and also I'm pretty sure my suggested blurb is kinda terrible so if someone could please suggest a better one that would also help. Thanks. Ks0stm (T•C•G) 17:38, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 27

June 27, 2011 (2011-06-27) (Monday)
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Rod Blagojevich convicted

Article: Rod Blagojevich (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich is convicted of 17 of 20 charges in his corruption trial, including all charges related to his attempt to sell the U.S. Senate seat vacated by Barack Obama. (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post, CNN, BBC, Radio New Zealand, Google News
Credits:

Oppose The original story certainly made huge headlines, but it's still a corruption case involving a governor of a single state of a single country. If all high-level politicians found guilty of corruption had their stories put on ITN, then we'd have a fair few from various countries around the world posted pretty frequently. Franklinville (talk) 02:15, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why does the US being a superpower have anything to do with this? At the end of the day, this story's practical effects relate only to Illinois. Franklinville (talk) 02:56, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose For two reasons, firstly Rod Blagojevich is not notable for anything outside US/Illinois politics, only of interest to the US. Secondly, it looks like this is only Round 2 of the fight, the fist ending in a draw, this round has been won by the prosecution, I suspect that there are more rounds to come before the final result will be known. Mtking (talk) 02:47, 28 June 2011 (UTC) |}[reply]

Legal appeals can indeed continue ad infinitum, but this is a conviction. To continue the boxing analogy I'd say that the winner has been declared by decision but the loser may contest the decision, rather than this being the 'end of round 2'.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:58, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If you ask the defence legal team, they would probably disagree. Mtking (talk) 03:07, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but privately they'd admit the conviction was a severe blow. I haven't followed the trial closely and IANAL, if I understand correctly he will go to prison now. The only thing to wait for is his sentencing. (currently he's forbidden from travelling outside the Chicago area until the sentencing). So further appeals will happen with him behind bars.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:44, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't expect anything until you read about it. An ordinary person might get taken into custody at sentencing. George Ryan, Blago's predecessor in both governing and federal crime, stayed out on an appeal bond for 18 months between conviction and the end of his appeals.--Chaser (talk) 05:39, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose One corrupt politician, unheard of outside his own country. And can we please drop the "world's most powerful superpower" hype, or rename this page to ITN in the USA. HiLo48 (talk) 02:48, 28 June 2011 (UTC) |}[reply]

Oppose This is getting international coverage, but it's more of a coda to the scandal. He was long convicted in the court of public opinion.--Chaser (talk) 03:51, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How is this of any significance outside the US and or Illinois ? Mtking (talk) 05:21, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
First international news website I visited was the BBC: front page [5]. Second international news website was Aljazeera: front page [6] Third I went to Reuters: front page [7] Fourth I went to Times of India: front page[8] The extra notability is, as I say, that the corruption was over Barak Obama's former Senate seat, a fact which is being pointed out all around the world as you read this. Jusdafax 06:02, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not confuse coverage by the 24hr news services with significance. Mtking (talk) 06:11, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You asked, I answered. The 'Blago' conviction is being covered in media wordwide and is of global interest, yet again, due to the hard-to-ignore fact that the U.S. Senate seat in question in the trial was last held at the time of the criminal activity by the current President of the United States. Jusdafax 06:33, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It is receiving international coverage on the BBC and Guardian main pages, as well as coverage on the main pages of the American news networks. N419BH 05:57, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've collapsed the opposes on the grounds of US bias. That's not acceptable. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 06:59, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Huh. I briefly mistook this for a mediation case where you were the mediator... Since it's not, see WP:TALKNO. Every editor has the right to express their opinion. Nightw 07:50, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Within reason sure. But the continual complaints about US items that wouldn't occur for non-US items is painful and basically racist. If this was a cash for honours scandal in the UK there would be no oppose votes, even though the US senate has far more power than the house of Lords. It is perfectly possible to argue the case without claiming its US centric - e.g. by the lack of international coverage or something. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:10, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "newsy" part of this story had passed -- when he was impeached. Apparently, there were 31.2k] views yesterday, as compared at time he was impeached when it had 150k views in 2 days, which further proves my point. I'd like to point out that "international significance," whatever that is, is no longer a part of the ITN criteria. So this boils down if it does meet the ITN criteria of "entries of timely interest—that is, encyclopedia articles that have been updated to reflect an important current event." –HTD 07:58, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support I think Obama's place is important enough, and this scandal has international coverage. GreyHood Talk 18:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Supreme Court rules on violent video game law

Article: Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The U.S. Supreme Court strikes down a Californian law prohibiting the sale of violent video games to minors. (Post)
News source(s): BusinessWeek, AP
Article updated

Significant case for the VG industry, as if the law were upheld, it would have set a standard higher than other published works and would likely have deep impact in future game development. The court decision is here [9], I expect within an hour to have some good articles to add and added to the main case page above. --MASEM (t) 14:26, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Inclined to oppose. Perhaps DYK would be a better venue once the reactions are all in? There have been, in my mind at least, far more important decisions issued by the Supreme Court this past month: Davis v. United States, Sorrell v. IMS Health Inc. (which will likely end up affecting the entire US' health care market), and the WalMart class action denial, among others. NW (Talk) 14:49, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The only aspect here that I think is important is that there would have been a world-wide impact on the VG industry since a majority of games are developed and published within the States, and if the case were decided in the opposite direction, the overall industry would have felt that. Other cases, which certainly are if not more important for the average US citizen, have little reach beyond the US (not to trivialize them in any way, just of the recent US-centric complaints about ITN). --MASEM (t) 15:32, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Important Free Speech case in Digital Media. The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 15:22, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Normally I would hesitate to feature any U.S. Supreme Court decision but this particular case appears to be a rare exception since, for better or worse, many (not all, since Japan is another giant) best-selling video games are made in the U.S., therefore it does have an international impact. The update looks good too. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:45, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support article looks solidly updated, and the case looks to be significant to how video games are allowed to be sold and rated. Additionally there is international impact as BorgQueen points out. It'd be interesting to see this same principle applied to sex in video games, but I guess the US is probably too strait-laced for that. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:37, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not a lawyer, but my reading on this is that standard Miller Tests apply now to video games thanks to the decision. If it is is Miller-test-"obscene", then it can be regulated as porn. But that's neither here or there... --MASEM (t) 17:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment marked as a minority topic, as video games are technology. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - It's a big story and will have an impact for years to come. Article update is a good factor.Jusdafax 20:28, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Marking [Ready]. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:29, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - It's a law in one country. Looks incredibly US-centric. HiLo48 (talk) 20:32, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So is a decent percentage of what we consider posting. No-one complained that the Chilean Miners, which was featured on ITN three times last year was Chilean-centric. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:34, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, a very US-central story that doesn't have any real implications for any other country. While the gaming industry will globally see this as good news, they're still not going to get away with anything in the less "land of the free" countries. Really, the fact that the US, a country with a glowing free speech record, is, um, allowing more free speech is hardly newsworthy on a global scale.  狐 Déan rolla bairille!  20:55, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Given the US gaming market is massive - its certainly in the top three along with Europe and Japan (who I'm sure between them make up 90% of the market), I'm sure this will have major impact. And while free speech is constitutionally protected the US's record on it hasn't been wildly brilliant in recent years.
    • Reporters without borders gives the US 20th for press freedom, which while decent, is hardly glowing. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:01, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comparative values on press freedom are a poor substitute for absolute numbers on freedom generally (the U.S. is always one of the countries that gets top scores from Freedom House [10]) or free speech in particular. Furthermore, the Supreme Court has recently been on a free speech tear. There may be other liberal democracies that afford more absolutist protection to press freedom, but the U.S. has strong free speech protections--you'll never see someone prosecuted here for denying the Holocaust.--Chaser (talk) 21:39, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Quite a lot of countries get top marks from Freedom house these days, and that index is also about political rights and democracy rather than straight freedom - neither is perfect frankly. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:45, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Removing [[Ready]] as has had 3 Oppose's since being marked as such vs one support. Mtking (talk) 01:29, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As a general comment to those opposing on the US centric-aspect of this, it's difficult to affirm how much an impact on the world this would have had if the ruling was the other way (that is, that it would have allows CA to restrict sales to minors based on "violent" content. The analysis goes that if this passed and affected video games, every other entertainment industry in the US would bound to be affected by it as well - not only the content makers but also the content distributors from other countries with less restrictions on free speech. Given that the US is one of the largest entertainment producers and consumers in the world, this would have had significant impacted (after a few steps in logic, granted) worldwide entertainment, in the same manner previously outlined just for video games. I realize this case can't happen now, but this was what many in the industry were worried about. If you do a google news search on "violent video game" you can find there are a lot of international papers covering this as well eg: [11] [12] [13], etc. --MASEM (t) 02:26, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question: Is it feasible for VG manufacturers to produce 2 versions of a game? Like one version has less violence than the other? I suppose removing suggestive cut scenes or mini-games don't count. Anyway, this would've been easier if the court judged the other way, as that would've meant that either the VG manufacturers create two different versions of a single game, or create less violent games that will be distributed to everybody. –HTD 05:09, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes, they have. One immediate example to mind is Left 4 Dead 2, due to Australia's lack of a mature rating for video games (therefore, banning its sale), forced Valve to create a version that didn't have blood and gore like the US and other release versions. Still had you shooting up dead people, just not as "red". Some games include filters that can be set to block blood, gore, and swearing, as well. --MASEM (t) 05:48, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well in that case this case doesn't seem all that notable as VG manufacturers can just create different versions for each market. –HTD 11:33, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • No, actually, that's not as simple a result (alternate versions of media have existed for decades with so called "TV edits" of movies). The cost of developing and marketing and supporting separate versions of software is far too costly to be a regular thing that if developers were under this stigma of government enforced age gates, they would like drop anything violent for sake of having something marketable. It is also the case that the law never gives any strong definition of violence, so what's simple cartoon humor to one may be aggressive and damning to another, and that would lead to a crazed rush of people demanding any game be blocked if it contains the tiniest amount of violence. And if that passed for the VG industry, you bet that family groups would have rushed to get the same said for television, movies, and any other published media (there's a reason that MPAA and other such groups backed the VG industry in briefs to the SCourt). The ruling of the Court maintains the status quo, which I recognize is not always a big news item, but importantly prevents a massive shift of balance between freedom of speech and states' rights involving protecting children. --MASEM (t) 12:31, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Remarking [Ready] complaining about US bias is definitely not a good argument and I don't think precedent is a good argument without a backup link. And the supporting arguments are pretty strong and its a minority topic. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 06:53, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • Removing ready - how about Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/May 2011#CTB v News Group Newspapers as an example. Mtking (talk) 07:57, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • Firstly that item looks to be a "no-consensus" item so taking precident from it seems not really reasonable. Secondly the cases aren't comparable - the former case isn't a supreme court case and it also directly is likely to only affect tabloid tittle tattle which we usually have a dim view of. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 11:08, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • the appropriate precedent would probably be the Indian supreme court ruling on euthanasia as that was a case at the right level. I doubt if that got a single oppose. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 11:19, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • Oh yeah, a kid being able to buy Death Storm 2 on his own in California is just as important as a country of 1 billion being allowed to make decisions to end someone's life... Nightw 11:32, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
            • I thought we were moving on from topic bias. By that measure only deaths are ever worthy of posting. Both of these are cases heard by a similar level court with international interest. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 12:19, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
            • You are aware that this law is a culmination of a long road that involves things like Columbine and the like (eg the claims that violence games lead to violent and lethal behavior in youth?) --MASEM (t) 12:32, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
              • Eh? I doubt even Mexicans cares whether teens can buy video games in California. I'd support if it was a federal thing of notability, but it's not. It's one state and it's video games. And it's a law that was in effect for a grand total of five or six years. Nightw 12:38, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
                • Technically the law never went into effect - its been blocked by courts since its inception, never enforced. But that just fuels the side, "who cares". I am pointing out the negative space here, the fears that major worldwide industries had if this law was found constitution in the US. It's a situation that won't happen, but there were a lot of fears that it would have been a very drastic shift in entertainment (several states were ready with their own bills to block sales of VGs, so it would have effectively become a national-upheld law, and with interstate commerce laws, ones that even more liberal states would have had to recognize; the industry would have had to mold itself to meet that law, either creating adult-only titles that they could sell or promote or stick to all-age appropriate simplistic titles; the movie and other entertainment industries would have likely expected to see similar laws on sales of DVDs and other media, creating a similar effect there, and that all affects what comes in and goes out in terms of the US entertainment import and export). Or to get to the heart of the matter, Mexicans won't care that a kid in California couldn't buy their game, until suddenly entertainment they like from the US suddenly is no longer being produced because of such laws. Yes, I'm fully aware of the long, hyperbole-filled chain that this follows, but this is exactly the types of analyses that were being done on this bill. --MASEM (t) 12:58, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Far less significant than that gay marriage decision in New York, which I also opposed. Nightw 11:37, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support US is the biggest game market and this could be precedent for the whole world. GreyHood Talk 18:27, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] ICC arrest warrant for Gaddafi

 
Article: Muammar Gaddafi (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The International Criminal Court issues an arrest warrant for Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi (pictured), accusing him of crimes against humanity during the ongoing civil war. (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Article updated
did we post al-Bashir? if not it hink wed wait for the arrest (akin to Mladic). Alternatively add this as part of the ongoing libya issue. For which we can also put a sticky.Lihaas (talk) 13:28, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we posted al-Bashir. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:30, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Omar al-Bashir. --candle•wicke 13:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 MD

Article: 2011 MD (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A near-Earth object 2011 MD passes about 12,000 kilometers (7,500 mi) from Earth's surface. (Post)

The asteroid which is bound to pass relatively close to Earth's surface at a distance of about 12,000 kilometers (7,500 mi), roughly 32 times closer than the Moon, at around 17:00 UTC. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 09:20, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

we dont vote count -- you ahvenot given any reason for support.Lihaas (talk) 11:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • A well-worded blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 10:35, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • From The Examiner (not the greatest of sources, but it will do for now): "Although it is acknowledged this asteroid will pass very near our planet, it is not the closest; because on February 4 this year, another space object passed just there-thousand-eight-hundred miles from earth's surface. The "2011 MD" has between twenty-five and fifty feet in diameter and will be the largest object to pass close by Earth since running the small celestial bodies control program, "Near Earth Objects" (NEO)."

    If I remember my days of studying astronomy well, ten-meter asteroids actually hit the Earth every year or so? If someone could confirm that such a thing is actually the case, I would oppose this nomination. NW (Talk) 11:23, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    • According to Earth_impacts#Sizes_and_frequencies (relying on a Nature article), one 5-10 meter asteroid enters the Earth's atmosphere about once a year, but usually they burn up before impact. This one is estimated at 5-20 m in diameter, and asteroids of that size flyby every 6 years or so [14] (perhaps that's the frequency estimate for the 20 meter asteroids?). Sources cited in the article conflict as to whether an object this size would make it through the atmosphere if it were actually on a collision course.--Chaser (talk) 20:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I think this is important and big enough for ITN. __meco (talk) 11:31, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurb suggestion: A near-Earth object 2011 MD passes about 12,000 kilometers (7,500 mi) from Earth's surface. --Kslotte (talk) 11:53, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. But I think its better if its mentioned that its passing 32 times closer than the moon. Lynch7 12:05, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment the article needs more of an update. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:35, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose - Earth is an asteroid magnet. The pitted topography of the moon is a pretty good indicator of future events. Marcus Qwertyus 21:04, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose If the object had hit Earth's atmosphere, it would have broken up, being about the size of van or small bus. Had it been a fair amount bigger, it would be ITN-worthy, as I see it. It missed and is no big deal either way: the point is moot. Jusdafax 06:09, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 26

June 26, 2011 (2011-06-26) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters

Law and crime

Politics

Science

Sports

[Ready] Yani Tseng

 
Yani Tseng with the 2010 Women's British Open trophy
Article: Yani Tseng (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Yani Tseng wins the LPGA Championship by ten strokes in a record tying under-par fashion becoming the youngest female golfer to earn four major victories. (Post)
News source(s): New York Times, USA Today, ESPN
Credits:

Article needs updating
Note: She's the youngest golfer to win a major, male or female. –HTD 07:00, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, Young Tom Morris was the youngest to four at 21 years old just go look at List of The Open Championship champions to verify that fact.SaysWhoWhatWhenWhereWhyHow? (talk) 18:13, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The Golf Channel source.SaysWhoWhatWhenWhereWhyHow? (talk) 19:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Eh sure. Since the 1870s. –HTD 03:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support no reason we should be bias towards men - and we'd post this for the male tournament. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:41, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
in that case take this to ITNR talk. (and we didnt post the omwnes NVCAA ven though mens was posted)Lihaas (talk) 09:10, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support a significant record on a professional level sport event. --Kslotte (talk) 10:05, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. More record-breaking Asian women needed on ITN. A record-breaking European male was posted for similar recently. This record appears to be even more significant. She also has a picture. --candle•wicke 13:29, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Big deal for a major professional sports. Glad this was nominated, perfect for ITN. RxS (talk) 17:43, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've attempted to update it since no one else has done so. --candle•wicke 23:48, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone? --candle•wicke 13:44, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

River Plate

Article: Club Atlético River Plate (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ River Plate, one of the Big Five of Argentine football, gets demoted to the National B tournament, after being defeated 3-1 in a two-legged tie against Belgrano (Post)
News source(s): USA today, ESPN, Guardian.UK
Credits:

Article updated

Support for now. Not sure how important it is but "River Plate into football 'abyss'" is "most popular" on the BBC website right now, it is being reported as far away as China and the United States, it's the first time it has happened, the game was "abandoned in the final minute, amid chaotic scenes", fans invaded the pitch, police fired on fans, and South America does not appear enough on ITN. --candle•wicke 23:00, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose According to the article, River Plate as played poorly since 2008, so I wouldn't be surprised that it was relegated to the secondary league despite its decorated history. Compared to the relegation of several major club teams in the 2006 Serie A scandal, this might be underwhelming. It is an unfortunate turn of events, but it was coming. I didn't see any big names on its roster either. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 01:06, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The point is not that it was "unexpected", but that it was a rare event. It is not impossible that one of the most successful teams of a league gets demoted to a lower league, but it's very rare, a series of bad results are hardly ever so bad that they get to this. That's why so many newspapers around the world talk about it, when they would hardly say a line about Argentine football otherwise. Cambalachero (talk) 01:20, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Chelsea (say) getting kicked out of the Premiership would be a seriously big deal, I think this is worthy of posting. The Serie A scandal is different. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:07, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • The system's not exactly the same, though. In England, one really bad season is all it takes. In Argentina, you'd need three bad seasons as the club performance is averaged in three years, plus they'd go through a two-legged playoff, so it's not entirely a shock if you're a fan. –HTD 07:20, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
strong support buig first and mega-event. No 33-time champion has been demoted.Lihaas (talk) 09:12, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Let me change that to Strong Oppose Coverage, but zero significance. Mtking (talk) 06:43, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You're right. Manchester United getting kicked out of the Premier League would have zero significance. Get real. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:47, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Argentine Primera División is not the English Premier League nor is it the Spanish La Liga. Mtking (talk) 08:44, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • I will dispute that. According to the FIFA ranking, Argentina is the 5º most important football country. Even above England, which is 6º. So, it is right, the Argentine Primera Division is not the English Premier League, it is more importantan than it. Cambalachero (talk) 13:55, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, Cambalachero, Primera Division is listed 7th by the IFFHS, which goes Spain, England, Italy, Brazil, Germany, France, Argentina, Portugal, Netherlands (see here where it is evident that Argentine Primera División is a significative league). (Cambalachero, you were citing statistics on National Teams). Salut, (IANVS) --200.127.173.60 (talk) 17:06, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support
Response to Mtking: Yes, it is very significant news even outside Argentina.
1) It appeared as a relvant (surprising, significative) news at the cover of sports newspapers around the world (in soccer countries, of course). Each of them have many articles about the subject. Most of the linked articles mention the worlwide repercussions of the news: Spain0s Marca,Portugal's A bola Italy's La Gazzetta dello Sport (1) and (2), France's L'Equipe, Brazil's Lance(+10 articles), etc.
2) But, even more important, it also appeared as significative news in generalistic newspapers outside Argentina (in most of the cases, at the cover): in Spain's El País and El Mundo, in Chile's El Mercurio, in Peru's Cronica Viva, Colombia's El Heraldo and El Tiempo, Uruguay's La República, Mexico's El Universal among many (many) others (including all major newspapers in Latin America and Spain -at least-, plus those menitoned at the top of this section: USAToday, ESPN, The Guardian).
Well, it does seem relevant news to me. Otherwise, why all of this newspapers would speak about a "commotion in the world of soccer". Well, because this is one of the most important teams in the world, has the record of Argentine tournaments, has won many international prizes, plays one of the most important derbies in the world, and had never lost category before. Salut, (IANVS) --200.127.172.229 (talk) 06:23, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Again, please do not equate coverage in 24hrs news services with significance, how is this significant outside Argentine football. Mtking (talk) 06:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'll repeat myself: It is a major soccer news, taking into account it is a world class team and a unique event. All newspapers are stating exactly that. That's why it is relevant news. Thanks, (IANVS) --200.127.172.229 (talk) 06:31, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose "Formerly good team performs badly for a few years". That is all this boils down to. If the New York Yankees don't make the playoffs for a year or two, I wouldn't expect an ITN blurb. If Tiger Woods misses winning yet another major, it shouldn't make ITN. I'm usually pretty lenient minded on sporting news, but this seems below the baseline. Yes, I heard it on the news today as well, but it doesn't seem up to the standards of ITN in terms of importance, given the number of sporting stories we usually run anyways. --Jayron32 05:41, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Removed [Ready] as not clear that support exists for this. Mtking (talk) 06:01, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Jayron, River Plate won the Argentine tournament in 2008. Since then, it has not played well, alright. But a soccer team is not an athlete, it is renewing its squad all the time, so a bad time is not implying the loss of category. Furthermore, what does it means 3 years of bad football to a history of 110 years of existance of the Club and its pertenence to 1st division?? It is a major soccer news, taking into account it is a world class team and a unique event. Resoting [Ready] as both your arguments are weak Salut, (IANVS) --200.127.172.229 (talk) 06:28, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry they are not week, you have failed to demonstrate how it is of significance outside Argentine football which is not that significant a league any way, why should some team being relegated be listed and not the winner of the league. Mtking (talk) 06:38, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've written about this twice already, please read above. I'll reapeatmyself once more, anyway: River Plate is a world class team, with many international prizes won, which have the record of Argentine League championships won (33), and which has never been relegated through a 110 years history is a major event in the world of soccer. Every newspaper referenced (all of them non-Argentine, and some of them Sport Newspaper) have stated the "commotion" this event brought to the world of soccer exactly for those reasons. Now, this seems to be an important news. BTW, the Argentine League is significative though not one of the top leagues currently (From where do you think dozens of soccer stars playing in the Euro Leagues come from?). Salut, (IANVS) --200.127.172.229 (talk) 06:54, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
@200.127, response to response to my comment: Again, there are always world class teams that sometimes suck. It happens. Sometimes, the New York Yankees finish at the bottom of their division. Sometimes, the Los Angeles Lakers or the Detroit Red Wings do as well. It isn't ITN-level importance for a major story. Sports teams successes ebb and flow, and that one team's "ebb" has waited a particularly long time to arrive isn't all that noteworthy. Yes, it was all over the news, but so isn't celebrity gossip, and we don't necessarily carry stories about every thing that appears in worldwide news just because it appears there. I understand that, for soccer fans from Argentina, this is world-shattering importance. I am a fan of American Football, and I take that shit very seriously, but I don't try to force my own personal fandom onto ITN merely because I like it... --Jayron32 14:29, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not even a soccer fan, Jayron. Don't go personal. I'm only stating the relevance this had inside and outside Argentina, in the world and history of soccer. Big Soccer teams don't usually get demoted, even when playing bad for one, two or three seasons. In the context of soccer, this is a unique event and it is newsworthy. Salut, (IANVS) --200.127.173.60 (talk) 16:49, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I agree with the reasoning that this is unworthy of an ITN blurb. We have 4-6 stories up at any one time, and in my view the inclusion of this one is uncalled for. This would set a precedent for sports news... not championships, or the death of notable players, but just sports news... being ITN blurbs. I don't see it. Agree with Jayron that this is below baseline. Also feel consensus is not established here at this time. Jusdafax 06:45, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • For christ sake this is like Manchester United or Arsenal getting kicked out of the Premiership. Or Real Madrid getting kicked out of La Liga. You guys opposing are being too fussy. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 06:52, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
14 hours w.o an update and this is ready..Lihaas (talk) 07:47, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Salut,(IANVS) --200.127.172.229 (talk) 08:11, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose per Jus. "(...) not championships, or the death of notable players, but just sports news". As far as I can see WP:ITNSPORTS does not includes national tournament results. Could set the precedent for news like "Team A loses 6-0 to Team B, the biggest defeat in its 110 years history". Is River Plate involved in scandals, or something, or just "playing bad"? I ask because when is asked "what does it means 3 years of bad football to a history of 110 years of existance of the Club and its pertenence to 1st division", all I think is if when the team returns to the National A, it won't be ITN material either. In Brazil, in the last few years, some very traditional, with more than 100 years os history, got demoted, and returned mostly in the following year. It's something regular, I think. Maddox (talk) 13:57, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is a special event, not a recurring event, so the link to the list of recurring events is pointless. And, as I said before, you can't reject a proposal because you don't like the theme: each proposal is considered on its own. This proposal is not about a single match, but about a team being demoted from the top league: if someone actually proposed a single match result, then it may be rejected. Cambalachero (talk) 14:09, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • This is a unique event. It is not going to happen again. Except if you consider Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea, etc. loss of category). Rare events, all of them. Nothing to worry about, methinks. Salut, (IANVS) --200.127.173.60 (talk) 16:43, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • Don't recall at any point stating I "don't like the theme". It's quite the opposite, actually. What I'm saying is that it has no significance. Every year teams get demoted in Argentina, Brazil, England, Italy and Spain (any other country mentioned I missed?). Maddox (talk) 06:02, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: Article has been viewed ~80k times since the story broke. Compare that to three ITNR items: 56k when the Miami Heat were beaten a few weeks ago, 70k views when the Vancouver Canucks lost and the city rioted, and ~11k views in 3 days when Cork GAA won some competition you probably haven't heard of (LOL can't resist). –HTD 14:19, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Resume: Considering that opposition for this to be on ITN is based on 1) arguing (with no evidence at all) that the Argentine League is not significative(which is FALSE); 2) arguing that world-class soccer teams get demoted all-the-time (which is FALSE); 3) worrying that this could set a bad precendent(which is not the case, because this is a unique event, and similar cases are RARE); 4) arguing that this has no interest outside Argentina(which is clearly FALSE as newspapers from around the world gave importance to this news based on its exceptional nature)plus given that the blurb and actualization is [Ready] and that the article was visited ~80k times since the event, I think it is time to consider its publication. Salut, (IANVS) --200.127.171.94 (talk) 19:26, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: Some more on River being world-class: IFFHS has listed River Plate 9th at the All-Time Club World Ranking.This is why this is exceptional. Salut, (IANVS) --200.127.171.94 (talk) 19:56, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • We are now talking about how "important" River Plate is? Maddox (talk) 06:02, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes, the alleged low "importance" of River or the Argentine league was one of the reasons used to reject the nomination, which has been proved false
  • Oppose The Boston Celtics sucked for a while too. Would that've been posted? The Montreal Canadiens haven't won the Cup since '93, perhaps that should be posted. Hot Stop (c) 05:18, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

IANVS (is that a reference to the Roman god by the way?) really hit the nail on the head that a great many of the arguments in opposition here are plainly false. I must say that there's a great deal of ignorance on display here on how soccer leagues work. It certainly isn't a requirement that we all understand such things; this is an international collaboration and as such we're often required to comment on the notability of things we're not familiar with. Anyway, comparing River Plate getting relegated to the NY Yankees missing the playoffs (Liverpool missing out on Europe would be a closer comparison to that) or the Boston Celtics 'sucking' is plainly false. It might be a reasonable comparison if one of teams finished with the worst record (in the whole league, not just their division) for three years in a row AND some very serious consequence happened as a result. Really though, there just isn't an analogy to a team getting relegated in North American sports. I've been on the fence about this as it probably is only a temporary setback for River Plate--they'll proabably get promoted back quickly. However, we did post the New England Patriots going 16-0 in 2007, amid some debate, and I oddly enough think this is a comparable event in terms of rarity, considering River Plate's long history of never having been relegated and their historical success as a soccer club. Support--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:02, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"[Ready]" removed by administrator User:BorgQueen, you have already added it before, please leave it to another editor to re-evaluate the discussion. Mtking (talk) 01:51, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest this be remarked 'Ready' (and posted obviously). The !vote count is 6-5 with two votes based on plainly false analogies and other votes based on thin arguments such as 'teams get relegated every year' (which fails to recognize the significance of a club of River Plate's stature being relegated).--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:05, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There are five other former national champions in "Argentina B". This is not noteworthy, not ITN-material... simply because teams get relegated every year. Maddox (talk) 18:16, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Again, a straw man argument. Rosario Central, one of the examples, was champion 4 times, and now it's in the B. River was champion 33 times, it is the highest winner, and most details pointed about the significance of River Plate do not apply to Rosario Central. Cambalachero (talk) 18:38, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's a moot point anyway as this story is older than the oldest story on the template (Khadaffi). And stop saying shit you disagree with is a straw man argument. My point is that occasionally teams with winning history perform poorly and this isn't any different except that North American sports don't relegate teams, as much as most people would rather not see the Pirates anymore. Hot Stop (c) 19:47, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 Puyehue-Cordón Caulle eruption

Article: 2011 Puyehue-Cordón Caulle eruption (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Ash cloud from the 2011 Puyehue-Cordón Caulle eruption continues to disrupt flights between Australia and New Zealand, and Chile and Argentina. (Post)
News source(s): [15][16]

 BorgQueen (talk) 22:17, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Continues to disrupt" doesn't seem like ITN-worthy material, IMO. Has something major happened today? NW (Talk) 22:37, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This is a tricky one for ITN. It's been significant news for most of the past three weeks for most southern hemisphere countries. It's had a huge impact on air travel, but generally invisible to northern hemisphere folk unless they are travelling to or from one of the affected countries. Naturally, as time goes on, the impact simply increases in its sum effect. It's something that all citizens of the lands affected have become aware of over the past three weeks. I believe it should be here because of its total impact, but it's hard to say exactly how and where. Rather than other editors just dismissing it, like that post above, I'd like some informed and intelligent discussion of how ITN should deal with this kind of spread out event, where the normal rules don't work. HiLo48 (talk) 02:27, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Let's follow-up this evolvment and try to pick up somethings singificant to post. 'continues' isn't as such signficant. --Kslotte (talk) 09:59, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That post seems to ignore everything I said above. Of course "continues" isn't significant under our normal policies. But this is like Boiling frogs. Nothing dramatic happens at any single point, but the frog ends up dead. Can ITN handle boiling frogs? HiLo48 (talk) 10:33, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
HiLo48, I think you make good points. However, we did post this in early June [17] when the volcano erupted. The eruption in Iceland was also just posted once, when that disruption in air travel began [18] (which was sudden and overwhelming, costing the airlines over $1 billion). The tenor of the news stories seems to be that there has been some disruption the last few weeks, some flights have resumed, but some not. I think we missed the peak of the important news on this item.--Chaser (talk) 22:04, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support - for all the reasons given above, and to simply see if I can attract any attention at all from the US/UK/soccer fan demographic of this page. HiLo48 (talk) 20:53, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose given the lack of update. If the article is updated with new information within the last few days I Support due to the significant effects on the southern hemisphere. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

LulzSec's end

Article: LulzSec (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Computer hacking group LulzSec announces that it is disbanding. (Post)
News source(s): (Business Insider)
Article updated

 BorgQueen (talk) 17:47, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support This is a group of hackers where no evident Political, Nationalist, Religious, Military, or entrepreneural affiliation or goals have redefined how we look at cyber warfare The relative ease which they seem to have walked through dozens of topnotch and supposedly "secure" systems also redefines the possibility of what a small loosely knit group can do. The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 18:06, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support given how many system's they've hacked this seems worthy of posting. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:08, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Any objections? --BorgQueen (talk) 18:29, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment personally, I don't know if this should go up. I would support technically because these guys were apparently the ones who hacked into the US government sites, but this group has only become notable in the past month or so and has pretty much been in the shadow of Anonymous in the minds of the public. Furthermore, with a group like this, I don't think anyone can take a move like this seriously. Everyone in the group will still be doing what they do. It isn't like this disbandment announcement doubles as a "we are all going to move to Tahiti and become Christian monks" thing. --PlasmaTwa2 20:05, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Group of internet nerds get some DDOS attacks in during their lunch breaks, and suddenly they're notable? Nothing in this story is worth front page attention doktorb wordsdeeds 20:37, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support Slow news day indeed. But this seems most topical, if NY gay marriage is not applicable. --hydrox (talk) 20:37, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We're honestly considering posting this over NY gay marriage? Their DDOS attacks had minimal impact compared to the New York legislature's actions, even on a global scale. NW (Talk) 21:45, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per NW. There are plenty of more notable events that should be posted overtop of this. And just FYI, I think they're disbanding because one of their members had his personal webpage hacked by another group and they were threatened with the reveal of personal and identifying information if they continue mindless DDoS attacks. Regards, MacMedtalkstalk 22:04, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't think comparisons to other items that are being rejected are reasonable. If you want to post the gay marriage thing make a solid comment in support there.
    • Taking such a negative line because people are possibly being inconsistent in their standards in another discussion isn't productive to the section as a whole. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:33, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - No chance in hell.--WaltCip (talk) 02:06, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Please can you avoid WP:IDONTLIKEIT opposes. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:10, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Alright, I'll elaborate then. This "group" does not have any legitimacy behind it save for an isolated series of DDOS attacks, many of which have been dealt with swiftly and without much fanfare, so as a group they are not notable. Since their impact was hardly felt to begin with, it does not matter at all whether or not they disband. Given the sporadic nature of groups like these, who is to say that their dissolution is permanent?--WaltCip (talk) 13:24, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
oppose theri announcement doesnt mean anything as a new body with much claim of damage. Furthermore, most hack-attacks were done by Anyonymous, who are more notable
and ditto per eraserhead, consensus is not built by vote count.Lihaas (talk) 09:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No deal in Nagorno-Karabakh negotiations

Source for story.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:20, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
oppose intl talks happen all the time to no avbail, only need to mention when somethign happens
btw- what is "zzz"? productive comment?Lihaas (talk) 09:15, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Let's say that the "zzzzz" comment was as productive as this nomination. –HTD 09:36, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
au contratire nominations warrant, by defintiion, a productive call for support. if you dont have nominatiin you dont get anythign posted, and certainly cant say that all nominations get posted, so this was a BOLD additionLihaas (talk) 11:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I can't make out what you're trying to say, if anything. In any case, you don't have to lecture me on how things work here, like I said, the "zzzzz" comment was as productive as this nomination. Think of it as another/offbeat way of commentating. –HTD 17:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hezbollah's move

MENA sticky again?Lihaas (talk) 09:18, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 25

June 25, 2011 (2011-06-25) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters

Law and crime

Politics

Science
  • The number of adults with diabetes in the world has more than doubled since 1980, according to a new study. (BBC)

2011 Syrian uprising

Article: 2011 Syrian uprising (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Hillary Clinton, the United States Secretary of State, warns of a possible escalation of the 2011 Syrian uprising as Syrian Army forces mass near the border with Turkey. (Post)
News source(s): (Sky)

[Posted] Same-sex marriage in New York

Article: Same-sex marriage in New York (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ New York becomes the sixth U.S State to allow same-sex marriage. (Post)
News source(s): CNN,msnbc
Credits:

Nominator's comments: The sixth US state to pass such a law Sir Brightypup II 05:46, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

oppose its not a firs. we dotn have to give undue coverage to all 25-odd states that will legalise it. (although when it happens down south it may be something)Lihaas (talk) 08:36, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment New York is actually larger in population than most of the nations that have allowed same-sex marriage so far. It is the third-largest state, with the largest and – arguably – most important city in the US. The implications of this could be huge for gay rights in the US, and the world. Yet people seem to constantly misinterpret the first part of what makes an ITN item, and completely ignore the second. An item should be notable (no, that doesn't mean equal time for all 192 UN member states), and the article should be properly updated (which is the real problem in this case, though no-one seems to care about that). Lampman (talk) 13:02, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Similar changes in the law are being rolled out all over the place. The frequency with which they are proposed here is getting daft. Not a first, not a last bastion of previous values, just one more link in a domino effect: NY is only more important to people in NY. Kevin McE (talk) 13:39, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is this the largest jurisdiction that allowed same sex marriage? –HTD 13:50, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No, that would be California. Oppose as this does not set a precedent, nor is it notable outside of the whole New York City angle. --PlasmaTwa2 13:53, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
New York State, not just the city. Imagine Reason (talk) 14:42, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Brazil is bigger too. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 13:53, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hasn't it been overturned in California, and it's termed "civil unions" in Brazil? –HTD 13:59, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If I recall correctly, it was overturned and then that got overturned as well. --PlasmaTwa2 14:03, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, see Perry v. Schwarzenegger, but the ruling of the US federal district court for Northern California has been stayed by federal 9th Circuit court, so California only recognizes same-sex marriages which were performed within the six months prior to prop 8 as ruled by the California Supreme Court until the stay is lifted. The case is now being appealed to the 9th Circuit, pending answers on procedural matters by the California Supreme Court (as California's Governor and AG have refused to appeal the case, who are named as defendants in it). --~Knowzilla (Talk) 17:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the navigation template it is marked "conditional" so that says something. So currently, is NY the largest jurisdiction that allows same sex marriage unconditionally? –HTD 14:09, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) You're right about Brazil. However Argentina has gay marriage and 40 million people, and Spain has gay marriage and 46 million people. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 14:10, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This doesn't really affect the 19 million New Yorkers only. For example, a gay couple in Iowa can go to New York and have their marriage "validated". So technically, once a U.S. state legalizes same sex marriage, it's like legalizing it in the entire country of 300 million people, provided they (gay couples) can actually go there. –HTD 17:45, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Uh, or that gay couple in Iowa could just, y'know... get married? Iowa has gay marriage. --Golbez (talk) 14:43, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, all this change does is save New Yorkers having to visit one of the five other states that already have such legislaetion, so it is even less notable. Kevin McE (talk) 21:33, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Eh... I really don't think couples would just "go there." To avail of rights associated with marriage you should actually reside; for example, you can't say the authorities in Iowa that since you married in NY, they should recognize that you should adopt and jointly own property, etc. –HTD 02:26, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I was going in the fact that someone told me that "technically, once a U.S. state legalizes same sex marriage, it's like legalizing it in the entire country": if that was incorrect, I'll refer you back to the person who misinformed me. Kevin McE (talk) 16:57, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The key word in that statement is "like," and add in "technically." If you don't understand those, or willfully won't acknowledge those words exist, then something's wrong with your reading comprehension. –HTD 17:15, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Anyway, who am I trying to convince? Hah hah! –HTD 17:15, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, this about a US state, not even a country-wide thing. --Kslotte (talk) 14:25, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - New York is a highly populated state and in turn this affects more people than some countries that have legalised it. Also what about the slant, it is paving way for more states as NY has been seen as a big hot seat in the Rights movement in the past.Rain the 1 BAM 14:54, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This is getting more and more common, which I think makes each one a little less significant. We've posted quite a few of these, and now I think it's time to draw a line and start posting those which are not just significant, but truly exceptional. An amendment to to the US Constitution would be exceptional, as would the legalisation of same-sex marriage in Alabama or possibly Texas or some other state known for being a long way to the right of the political spectrum. But I think it's time to stop posting all of these and that it's a good day for freedom when this becomes relatively routine. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:12, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Lets see how the the current news items fare on Google News first: about 500 recent news articles and 7000+ results for 'Mario Draghi', about 800 recent news articles and 800+ results for 'Pauline Nyiramasuhuko', 200+ results for 'Nabro Volcano', and about 1200 recent new articles and 2000+ results for 'AirAsia'. And now on this news item: about 7000 recent news articles and 10,000+ results for 'gay marriage new york'. This is clearly a fairly newsworthy item. We should not stop news items from being displayed on the main page just because such news items are becoming increasingly common. Also, in the United States marriage laws are set by the states and not the country, the US federal government can only decide whether or not to recognize a marriage, they cannot legislate on the legality of a certain type of marriage. --~Knowzilla (Talk) 17:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Knowzilla, having more news hits than anything else on the ITN front page combined seems like a pretty good reason to post it. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:31, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, a major news story. We are still long ways off from this kind of news not being a big deal. Nsk92 (talk) 21:35, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. alos there is a specific article on the topic (Same-sex marriage in New York). Why isn't it linked in the blurb? Renata (talk) 23:46, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Meets all of the ITN criteria. Quality article, reader interest, lots of media coverage, certainly not trivial: NY has more people than all of the other gay-marriage jurisdictions in the US combined. It's not like ITN has been deluged with U.S. gay marriage items, and if I am not mistaken, this is the first time a sizable state has enacted gay marriage through a legislative vote rather than a court decision -- a true landmark. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:58, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Mwalcoff.--Johnsemlak (talk) 08:23, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as per the obvious exaggeration of the news. We used to post only allowments in the countries, not any other federal subjects, so I don't care what is the influence of the state of New York and what is its population now. The fact that I oppose this is mainly because it's not a sovereign country, and that this news only dashed through the world's media. When in 2009 Sweden and Norway did it, it was much more covered than this one. If the United States allows such marriages, I'll surely vote support.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:59, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There lies the problem: in the United States, the national legislature cannot decide whether or not to permit same-sex marriage, only the state legislatures can. The only way to change that is by an amendment to the US Constitution. Alternatively if, for example Perry v. Schwarzenegger succeeds, and the US Supreme Court declares that restricting marriage to opposite-sex couples only is a violation of the Equal Protection & Due Process clauses of the American Constitution, will the entire US recognize same-sex marriage. But that will take several years to reach the Supreme Court, and when it comes to legislating on the subject, only state legislatures can do so (the federal government can only decide whether or not to recognize a certain marriage in respect to federal benefits). --~Knowzilla (Talk) 16:37, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but only if the blurb mentions that NY is the most populous state so far to allow these marriages. That is much more significant to mention than it is the 6th. --mav (reviews needed) 12:55, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments: I think we can forget about this nom. There are too many opposes. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:59, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • As important as it is and as much as I am a supporter of the right for anyone to marry whomever they should happen to love, I oppose this being in ITN. HJ Mitchell touched on it already by saying that this is becoming a not-so-uncommon event. I appreciate the step that NY took by passing this, but it doesn't really mean that much to me, given that there are still 44 other states that don't allow it. StrikerforceTalk Review me! 14:01, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It seems these get nominated every time. In the past we haven't posted when entire countries adopt gay marriage or other forms of civil union, yet alone individual states. This isn't the first, nor will it be the last, it is simply a continuation of changing attitudes. As such I can't see how it can be held to be of sufficient notability. Crispmuncher (talk) 16:42, 26 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
    • I think ITN did post something about a certain country adopting this measure. Heck we did post Malta allowing the parliament to consider making a divorce law (not at the point of legalizing divorce, which will probably be posted again), and that's the 200th country to do that. –HTD 17:15, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support if it's not an uncommon event (as many opposers state) why is it receiving so much media coverage? Also how "common" of an event can it be if only 10 of the worlds almost 200 countries allow gay marriage? Hot Stop (c) 16:47, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Too right above. TBH it isn't that common, it isn't like it happens everyday. Celebs die more often and get posted here. Not sure why something that affects millions, which is does, gets opposition. (Considering some didn't want it and will now be annoyed and the rest who wanted it are happy.) I watch out for gay issues quite a bit here, and more often than not it is met with this joke. So for the first time I'm wondering about some peoples motives for opposing. That is just my opinion, it could be clouded too.Rain the 1 BAM 19:53, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's not being gay... more like this being a US-centric (and not even national in scope) issue that drives people here to oppose. –HTD 20:24, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Support' big news in just about all corners of the world. NYC is the size of many nations, and a great concentration of Wikipedia readership without a doubt. --hydrox (talk) 21:22, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - a huge story in the media this weekend. Historic change in a major state of the US. Opposers fail to convince me to !vote to keep this off of the Main Page. Jusdafax 22:52, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment at 13-9 in support and possible issues with US biaz, which should obviously be discounted I was going to add [Ready?] to get an admin to check consensus, however the article still doesn't look updated sufficiently. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:58, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - This is more a state matter than national, much less international. Mamyles (talk) 23:03, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • This to me is far more notable than most of the events on the template currently, and it will have a significant impact on the lives of millions of people. The arguments against seem to boil down to the a) this happens 'all the time' and b) It's not a 'national' issue. Many people have already pointed out that NY state is far more populous than most countries. Furthermore, as pointed out, this is the primary way people in the US political system receive this right in the US. IMO this is not analogous to a US gubernatorial election of a large state, which is less significant than the election of a sovereign head of state because a sovereign head of state has many powers a governor does not have. As to the 'this happens all the time' argument--full legal marriage rights are still extremely rare globally. I think the legalisation of same sex marriage of a jurisdiction the size of NY is ITN worthy even if it is not unprecedented. Surely we would post if it were legalised in the UK, despite that it wouldn't be the first European country to do so.--Johnsemlak (talk) 23:40, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The UK effectively has gay marriage already and has had for several years - civil partnerships are to all intents and purposes equivalent to marriage in terms of their rights and responsibilities. The only distinction is that in formal legal parlance (but not popular usage) the term "marriage" is avoided to placate the religious groups. If we accept the two as equivalent your assertion this is the most populous jurisdiction to do so falls apart. If we don't you are essentially arguing this is worth posting on an issue of nomenclature. I don't see either argument as conferring particular significance. Crispmuncher (talk) 14:25, 27 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
Uh, 'effectively'? 'For all intents and purposes'? That's not the same as allowing it outright. The nomenclature matters to a lot of people. That's why people are trying to have same sex marriage legalised in the UK.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:46, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support per Mwalcoff plus the lack of either New York or same-sex marriage on ITN. --candle•wicke 23:56, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 24

June 24, 2011 (2011-06-24) (Friday)
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Business and economy

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Sport

[Posted] Draghi designated as ECB head

Article: Mario Draghi (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The European Council designates Mario Draghi to replace Jean-Claude Trichet as President of the European Central Bank by November 2011. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Alternative: place it on ITN on November 1, when he takes office. --bender235 (talk) 12:37, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Both now and November 1 are possibilities. I would prefer posting now, because his appointment is news right now. Thue | talk 18:13, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
wait till he takes office, a designation doesnt mean anything because hes not making policy.Lihaas (talk) 08:39, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Rwandan former minister convicted of genocide

Article: Pauline Nyiramasuhuko (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former minister Pauline Nyiramasuhuko is the first woman to be convicted of genocide by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Support, seems to be long list of people involved, but Pauline seems as key player based on her political position and sentence length. --Kslotte (talk) 13:17, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - most news reports are also making a big deal of the fact she's the first woman.--BelovedFreak 13:29, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support posting the highest ranked govt. minister convicted (if such she is), oppose posting first woman: chromosomes do not make offences more or less important. Kevin McE (talk) 13:49, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I'm personally not bothered what the blurb says, but you might want to tell the Guardian, Telegraph, Associated Press etc. that. :) She's not the highest ranking, the Prime Minister of the country was previously convicted. However, this is still news right? I'm not familiar with ITN - this is my first submission, but this is making (lots of) headlines, I only came to the article after reading about her on the BBC website, and presumably that's kind of the point, to help readers locate articles on events they've just read about? --BelovedFreak 14:07, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
siupport famous first, notable by that itself.Lihaas (talk) 09:02, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 23

June 23, 2011 (2011-06-23) (Thursday)
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[Posted] Peter Falk dies

Article: Peter Falk (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Actor Peter Falk, best known for playing the television detective Columbo, dies aged 83. (Post)
Credits:

 Crispmuncher (talk) 18:44, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, but this actor is particularly notable. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:04, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Lihass, is that your opinion? Or is that statement based upon reliable sources? I ask because the sources pointed out above say otherwise, that he is very notable. I was not a Columbo viewer, wasn't even born then, but I looked up what the media was pointing, after and before his death, before saying he is or is not notable. Maddox (talk) 17:08, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
He's not just an American actor... -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 11:36, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Our categories list 1039 Emmy winners and 606 Golden Globe winners: that does not make him obviously ITN worthy. Kevin McE (talk) 21:57, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
He's won 4 of them, I doubt the number of people in that category is particularly high. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:26, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • My only comment I'll make here is that my Russian mother-in-law is a huge fan of Columbo, and it's probably the only American tv show she's ever watched regularly. His signifance clearly crosses borders. Otherwise I'm neutral, and I'm partial to Kevin's comment above that this is an example of something perfect for an expanded 'recent deaths' section.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:44, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm marking this ready, but will wait for another admin to review. I think there's a consensus to post this. If it was a straight vote it would probably have consensus, but we hope it's more than that. I think that looking at the discussion the opposes have been (mostly) answered with appropriate counter arguments. At least 2 of the opposers make points that aren't really relevant (BabbaQ and Ohconfucius). No one claims that every American actor gets posted, and certainly the list of positions mentioned by Ohconfucius are not the only ones that we post at ITN. In addition, Mkativerata's oppose if factually wrong (he won 5 Emmy's). I think we'd like to avoid a situation where editors can sink a nomination just by showing up without making any relevant justifications for the oppose "vote". I think this has consensus to post, but as I said I'll wait for another admin to review the points I've made since the posting may be challenged. I'd really like to see more analysis of discussion rather than scanning the bold support/oppose postings. RxS (talk) 18:07, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Posted. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:00, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Note: I agree that there's consensus that the topic itself qualifies, but I see no major update to the article. —David Levy 19:16, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I've updated it to be 5 (admittedly rather short) sentences. Given the timer was red I think that's OK. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:25, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree with Eraserhead1. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:28, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Have we established consensus to relax our update requirements when the timer is red or when preexisting background information is the primary asset to readers (e.g. when someone led a noteworthy life but died under mundane circumstances)? I personally oppose the former and support the latter, but I don't recall the community agreeing to either. —David Levy 19:40, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    (ec) In fact I am not sure if we relaxed anything here. The minimum requirement is five sentences with references, and the update meets the requirement. --BorgQueen (talk) 20:00, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    We don't merely count the number of sentences; we require that they convey a substantial amount of information beyond what's stated in the ITN blurb. In the case of a death, this typically includes details regarding its cause and/or societal impact. In this instance, we know only that Falk left behind relatives who intend to "remember his wisdom and humor."
    However, as suggested in the past, I support the idea of looking more to the content about people's lives (rather than imposing update requirements that aren't always realistic). I just don't recall the idea attaining consensus. (Of course, it's entirely possible that I missed a discussion.) —David Levy 20:15, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I just checked Wikipedia:In_the_news/Admin_instructions#Update and it does not say what you are saying. Could you give a guideline or policy page to support your claim? --BorgQueen (talk) 20:21, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    From Wikipedia:In the news#Updated content:
    Changes in verb tense (e.g. "is" → "was") or updates that convey little or no new information beyond what is stated in the In the news blurb are insufficient. The decision as to when an item is updated enough is subjective, but a five-sentence update (with at minimum three references, not counting duplicates) is generally more than sufficient, while a one-sentence update is highly questionable.
    It appears that the "five-sentence update" example (intended to be a "general" rule of thumb) was copied over without the relevant context (i.e. that what those sentences convey matters). —David Levy 20:36, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I have added a paragraph with tributes to Falk from Steven Speilberg, Stephen Fry, and Rob Reiner, which should fix the problem. I must agree with David that this should have had a better update before posting. And by the way 5 sentences is not a minimum as is often stated; it is considered more than sufficient.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:12, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Just a note: Falk shouldn't be at the top. He died (at least) before Draghi's designation and the Rwandan conviction. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:56, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Fixed. —David Levy 20:04, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Police sentenced to death for killing Floribert Chebeya

Article: Floribert Chebeya (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Four policemen are sentenced to death and another is sentenced to life imprisonment for last year's assassination of activist Floribert Chebeya in Democratic Republic of the Congo. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Article updated
Support, an exceptional case of justice. I think the article needs to be improved a bit. I assume there will exist much more information to make the article more complete. --Kslotte (talk) 23:27, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Some more argument why this is exceptional: 1. there still exist justice in a developing country, 2. policemen getting charges is rare in any country, 3. sentenced to death is a very strong "punishment" --Kslotte (talk) 09:42, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
oppose noty globally notable. you know how many activists have been improsioned/tortured/killed by state officials? and to pre-empt counter points, there are plenty of officers who are punished for it too. why is this more exceptional? (i can changemy vote if the arguement is convincing). at any rate, congo's judiciary doesnt hold great stead in legal independence.Lihaas (talk) 06:57, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support policeman extremely rarely get punished for behaving badly. Even in the UK, and where there is video evidence of the wrongdoing, it has taken its sweet time to even get the Ian Tomlinson case to court. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:13, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
oppose Lech Wałęsa's pneumonia is more newsworthy. I would support if it was a story about UK or US policemen; we're talking about the a third world country here... (undid two unnecessary links in blurb just in case it gets enough support). --Ohconfucius ¡digame! 08:16, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support policemen gutting punished in corrupt third world countries is pretty notable. usually such murders go unpunished.--Wikireader41 (talk) 20:02, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Enormous volume of prejudicial assumption about the application of rule of law here: it would be nice to see something more informed than Hey, that's a country in Africa that I don't know much about. I bet the police are always killing people and getting away with it. I'd love to see some of those commenting above providing some data or reports from reputable NGOs to substantiate what otherwise seems to be crude racism. Surely the decision here is whether the fact that the death of this human rights campaigner was at the hands of the authorities (which, after a trial, is no longer a matter of contention) is notable in ITN terms. Note that the target article is not the trial. Kevin McE (talk) 09:31, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
thats not difficult courtesy google. might want to read this [21]--Wikireader41 (talk) 15:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Souris River floods

Article: 2011 Souris River flood (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Record flooding on the Souris River forces the evacuation of over 11,000 people in Saskatchewan and North Dakota. (Post)
News source(s): [22]

~AH1 (discuss!) 18:04, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose not enough impact yet for ITN. --Kslotte (talk) 23:20, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Airbus-AirAsia: largest single order of commercial aircraft in history

Article: AirAsia (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ AirAsia of Malaysia makes the largest single order in commercial aviation history with 200 Airbus A320neos.
 (Post)
News source(s): [23]

[Posted] North-South Sudan agreement on South Kordofan

Article: South Kordofan conflict (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Ending the South Kordofan conflict the North and the South Sudan agree to demilitarize the contested area of Abyei where Ethiopian peacekeepers will be deployed. (Post)
News source(s): Sudan Tribune, Sudan Tribune, Al Jazeera
Important, the conflict which has caused the displacement of 140,000 people still has not been mentioned on our front page!Olegwiki (talk) 12:23, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support' again, as I have also supported the previous candidates... Thue | talk 14:57, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support peace is good achivement in this conflict. --Kslotte (talk) 20:17, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] James "Whitey" Bulger captured

Article: James J. Bulger (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ James "Whitey" Bulger is captured in Santa Monica, California after 12 years on the US FBI's Ten Most Wanted Fugitives List. (Post)
News source(s): CNN, ABC News, The Guardian, Google News
Credits:

Article updated
dodgy this, notable capture, but its not of global importance. though if ITN timer needs something then this is worthyLihaas (talk) 09:54, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Decent article. Update needs expansion. Marcus Qwertyus 16:57, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Geert Wilders acquited (Trial of Geert Wilders comes to an end)

 
Article: Trial of Geert Wilders (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Geert Wilders, the leader of Dutch political party Party for Freedom, is acquitted of hate speech charges. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, DutchNews.nl
Credits:

Article updated

A Dutch court acquits right-wing politician Geert Wilders of hate speech charges for statements against Islam. (AP via Huffington Post, pretty major news (largest free-speech trial in the world at the moment, pretty big thing, lots of international news coverage). Polozooza (talk) 10:46, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also: Kosher and Halal ritual slaughter outlawed in Netherlands on the same day. Polozooza (talk) 10:47, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The target article should be Trial of Geert Wilders, and it needs to be updated more (minimum 5 sentences and 3 references). --BorgQueen (talk) 10:59, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
More references would not be a problem as it's currently all over the internet. Polozooza (talk) 11:05, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It just was. Polozooza (talk) 15:08, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, but please notice that I said "5 sentences and 3 references." --BorgQueen (talk) 16:55, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There are 150 references if you want to. At least. Polozooza (talk) 18:19, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So be bold :). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:54, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Still needs more of an update. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:46, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Article expanded with current development. Should be ready, pending 2nd opinion. --hydrox (talk) 22:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 22

June 22, 2011 (2011-06-22) (Wednesday)
Armed conflict and attacks

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Business and economics

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International relations

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Politics

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[Posted] 2011 Bahraini uprising

Article: 2011 Bahraini uprising (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Bahraini government sentences eight pro-democracy activists to life in prison for their role in the uprising. (Post)
News source(s): (The Guardian) (Al Jazeera) (BBC)
Article updated
Support as nom. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk)
support obvious really. a big part of the MENA protests that has been oft-neglected here. Its a significant step in the counter-revolution (which is often not coverfed here either)Lihaas (talk) 05:31, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support as the verdicts have been criticised as 'clear examples of "political and summary justice"' and "were imposed under hardline emergency laws". This seems significant. --candle•wicke 07:56, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments: The article has to be updated more. Ideally the target should be Timeline of the 2011 Bahraini uprising but it has some issues. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:02, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The article has been updated. The problem with the timeline article is way too big to be fixed at the moment so we have to settle to the main article. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 07:32, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Ai Weiwei released

File:Ai Weiwei cropped.jpg
Article: Ai Weiwei (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Chinese artist Ai Weiwei (pictured) is released.

or "Chinese authorities release high-profile artist and political activist, Ai Weiwei (pictured), after two months in detention" (Post)
News source(s): N.Y. Times
Article updated

Ai Weiwei is the most prominent of a recent wave of arrests of activists and dissidents in China. His detention attracted international calls for his release from the usual western governments and diplomatic channels, but also from a variety of other people, including New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, British sculptor Anish Kapoor, and others in the international art community. The article has been updated, but needs more sources.--Chaser (talk) 04:02, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is the top story on The Economist's homepage right now.--Chaser (talk) 04:22, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

i would support that. try nom. that seperatel.Lihaas (talk) 13:31, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, it was unnecessary. If really needed, it could have been easily dabbed by replacing 'China' with 'PRC'. However, Ai's both ethnic Chinese and from the PRC; Taiwan is never referred to as China. --Ohconfucius ¡digame! 08:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 21

June 21, 2011 (2011-06-21) (Tuesday)
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Business and economics

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International relations

Law and crime

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Science

Sport

[Reposted] 2011 Eritrean Eruption

Article: 2011 Eritrean eruption (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 7 killed by volcanic eruption. (Post)
News source(s): http://earthquake-report.com/2011/06/22/unusual-series-of-moderate-volcanic-earthquakes-in-eritrea-and-ethiopia/
Oppose, as article is at AFD trending a merge. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 11:31, 22 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If it does get merged into Nabro Volcano you could change the article to Nabro Volcano and the blurb to Nabro Volcano once thought to be extinct erupts killing 7. EdwardLane (talk) 12:01, 22 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. It appears to have been kept. It is a fatal eruption. --candle•wicke 00:14, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Article has been kept but renamed so I've updated the itn nomination - and I think this is probably a better blurb too.

Article: 2011 eruption of Nabro (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Seven people are killed in Eritrea by the eruption of the Nabro Volcano previously thought to be extinct. The eruption is emitting the highest levels of poisonous SO2 ever recorded from space, resultingly prompting the need for international aid. (Post)
News source(s): http://earthquake-report.com/2011/06/22/unusual-series-of-moderate-volcanic-earthquakes-in-eritrea-and-ethiopia/

EdwardLane (talk) 07:04, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Note: I've fixed up the blurb a bit. Had no idea that there were fatalities in this eruption, so this is a delayed story but that is no matter because this is Eritrea. Might also want to mention flight cancellations. ~AH1 (discuss!) 17:44, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The current blurb has to be shortened. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. There's always a temptation to try to include too much detail. In this case, even seven deaths probably isn't sufficiently significant to merit inclusion, the international aid line is arguably POV or campaigning in nature. How about:
Nabro Volcano in Eritrea erupts, emitting the greatest quantity of sulfur dioxide ever recorded by satellite.
Crispmuncher (talk) 22:03, 23 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
Support poison in the air is something different and news worthy. The blurb above sounds OK, but the article needs a bit more prose in the Eruption section. --Kslotte (talk) 23:10, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

World's longest sub-sea pipeline

 
Nord Stream
Article: Nord Stream (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The construction of the first underwater line of Nord Stream, the longest sub-sea pipeline in the world, is completed in the Baltic Sea. (Post)
News source(s): RIAN
  • Oppose I was feeling quite supportive of this but on reading the article I don't see an actual event here. The first pipeline was completed last month according to the article. This didn't happen on June 21 (that's the date of the event, not the nomination) and there's a good reason why we have no May xx sections still on this page: it's a bit old to really count as news, and certainly older than the five-day window we usually operate in. Crispmuncher (talk) 23:49, 21 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
The article says they completed underwater works only now. GreyHood Talk 11:41, 22 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That isn't what our article says. There seems to be some contradictions there, although I can see how the circle may be squared - the article you link to talks of underwater work, whch may include inspections and signing off, for intance. Even if it is true in a substantive way, our article needs to be updated to reflect that for an ITN entry. Crispmuncher (talk) 16:52, 22 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
The relevant parts of the article have been updated. GreyHood Talk 17:14, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rare penguin sighting

 
Emperor Penguin
Article: Emperor Penguin (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An Emperor Penguin (pictured) is sighted on a beach on New Zealand's North Island for the first time in 44 years. (Post)
News source(s): BBC AP via The Guardian

[Posted] Ban Ki-moon wins second UN term

Article: Ban Ki-moon (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Ban Ki-moon wins a second term as UN secretary general. (Post)
Article updated

BBC

Secretary general of the UN seems worthy of posting. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:27, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Should it note that there were no other candidates? --candle•wicke 21:38, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Was he re-elected? The BBC states "UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has been re-elected to serve a second five-year term, in a vote at the UN General Assembly in New York" then further down it states "Mr Ban smiled and bowed to ambassadors and diplomats gathered at UN headquarters, who backed the reappointment through applause without a vote". --candle•wicke 21:49, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Al Jazeera says "by acclamation" and "through applause without a vote". --candle•wicke 21:54, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
See vote by acclamation and the closely related concept of viva voce -- these are rather frequent ways of doing business in legislatures. –HTD 08:32, 22 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
ditto, all the "speedy posts" and (in HJMitchell's words_) "all the supportsin the world will not get it posted without an update"(alright i paraphrase)Lihaas (talk) 18:22, 22 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Dunno what else has to be said -- he was virtually unopposed and was voted by acclamation. What else has to be said? –HTD 19:09, 22 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The article is now updated and ready for posting. Please post asap, before this becomes old news. Crnorizec (talk) 19:22, 22 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 20

June 20, 2011 (2011-06-20) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

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Transportation

[Posted] Judgement of Zine El Abidine Ben Ali

 
Zine El Abidine Ben Ali
Article: Zine El Abidine Ben Ali (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former President of Tunisia Zine El Abidine Ben Ali is sentenced for 35 years to jail in absentia. (Post)
News source(s): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13850227
Credits:

Article updated
Support This the biggest news coming out of MENA today. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 00:53, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Please wikify in absentia as well. --bender235 (talk) 13:02, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am not convinced that it is necessary. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:04, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
We can replace the President of Tunisia link (w/c is a stub) with a link to in absentia. –HTD 13:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Removal of a prime minister

Article: Mohamed Abdullahi Farmajo (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Article updated
conditional support with article update and detail s of the terms. its notable to have a leader unseated (particualrly from otuside) a la Ivory coast. Lihaas (talk) 06:07, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Since there is no objection, and the article has been updated, going to post soon. I believe I waited long enough this time. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:50, 22 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

FIFA Vice President Jack Warner resigns

Article: Jack Warner (football executive) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Jack Warner resigns his post as vice-president of FIFA amidst corruption allegations. (Post)
News source(s): http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13845203.stm BBC
Credits:

Article updated
  • Oppose The only news here is that a person has resigned. We don't officially know why. All charges against him have been dropped and inquiries involving him have been closed. To claim it is related to the corruption scandal may be a reasonable guess, but it's a violation of BLP rules, because we don't actually know that. Items here must not depend on innuendo. This may be a very clever political move at FIFA, getting rid of a target, but we can only guess at that. Not enough hard evidence of anything for this to be significant. (Or legally safe.) HiLo48 (talk) 20:24, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose He was only a VP. For an organisation like this, I would support if the president of the organisation resigned under proven circumstances. SpencerT♦C 04:21, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Ryan Dunn

Article: Ryan Dunn (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)

Ryan Dunn, daredevil, Jackass actor , dies after a car accident at age of 34. -EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 16:08, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Really? Johnny Knoxville may be worth discussion if he dies unexpectedly but Ryan Dunn? Really? What is his biggest accomplishment? All I could say his "inserting a toy car into his rectum and having it x-rayed" gag was funny the first time. The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 16:33, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
We could insert the rectum part in a blurb. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 16:36, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The epitome of what belongs only on Recent deaths. We need to remember that page exists, and ITN is not the clearing house for every single BLP that dies. --Golbez (talk) 16:40, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The only possible interpretation of strongest support possible is that you consider the inclusion of this item to be as important as including announcement of the assassination of Obama or nuclear attack on Japan by North Korea. Is that really what you mean? Kevin McE (talk) 06:14, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
More like strongest-possible-support ever since the rapture ends before Le Mans ends so we gotta post now. –HTD 12:48, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] gTLDs expansion

Article: Generic top-level domain (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ ICANN votes for an expansion of the available generic top-level domains (such as .com and .edu), permitting the use of non-Latin characters and allowing companies and organizations to choose their own gTLD suffixes. (Post)
News source(s): [25],[26],[27],[28]
Credits:

Article updated
  • An important development, that is likely to significantly change the face of the Internet. Nsk92 (talk) 15:40, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've ruthlessly copyedited the blurb, to try to reduce it to realistic dimensions. Also changed bolded article from ICANN to gTLD. --hydrox (talk) 16:51, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't mind compressing the blurb, but you cut it too much. The use of non-latin characters is only a part of the deal here; the bigger news is that companies will now be allowed to choose their own gTLDs, leading to stuff like .ibm, .apple, .coke, .delta, etc. That needs to be reflected in the blurb. Nsk92 (talk) 17:07, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mild oppose: bit geeky, not main page news, but that is not always a problem. But if posted, less techie language needed for the blurb: generic top level names will mean nothing to a very large proportion of readers, and there is no clue to the layman that it has anything to do with the internet or computing. Kevin McE (talk) 17:11, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • The original blurb was more detailed, and gave examples of current gTLDs, like .com, .edu, .gov, etc. They could still be worked back in. I don't think this particular newsitem is too geeky: everybody uses internet these days, and the fact that the number of gTLD suffixes will probably expand from 22 to hundreds if not more will certainly substantially change the internet. Nsk92 (talk) 17:25, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Everybody uses a car nowadays, and the suspension is the way their car connects to the rest of the world, but I wouldn't expect discussion of MacPherson struts, upper and lower A-arms and semi-trailing arms without telling the reader that we are talking about suspension systems, or even cars. Kevin McE (talk) 17:39, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This situation is different: we are not talking about a hidden "back-end" type of a change, like the struts example, but about a "front-end" type of change which will much more directly impact how ordinary people interact with the internet. While people using a car do not generally see its struts, people browsing the internet do see the web-addresses of various sites they access. Nsk92 (talk) 17:49, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
But do enough people care what's in them? For that reason I oppose as too much of a niche item. Hot Stop (c) 17:54, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The same could be argued for all sorts of stuff we post. I think huge numbers of people care about non-latin characters. I would say the whole population of China, India, Japan and the Arab world probably care about that to a lesser or greater extent. That's over 3 billion people. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:48, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So it's of interest to people who don't primarily speak this language? Hot Stop (c) 21:59, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
We don't just post things that are of interest to English speakers as we aim at an international audience, and there are lots of English speakers in India and China (if only due to the sheer size of those countries). The elite in India all speak English, but they'll speak other languages too. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:02, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
My example about car suspensions was not about saying that we shouldn't mention it, but that we should not use technical terms beyond the argot of the average native user of English without at the very least an explanation of the context (I have now underlined the part that seems to have been overlooked). Although people might use the internet daily, the vast majority will not have a clue who or what ICANN is/are, will not automatically guess which meaning of suffix is intended, and will consider generic top-level domain to be incomprehensible jargon. We do not give sports results without telling people what sport the NBA Championships or the US Open is in: we need something to set the context of this jargon-laden blurb. Kevin McE (talk) 06:31, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Plane crashes in Russia, 44 dead

Article: RusAir Flight 243 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ RusAir Flight 243 crashes in Petrozavodsk, Russia, leaving 44 people dead and eight injured. (Post)
News source(s): reuters.com xinhuanet.com rian.ru
Credits:

Article updated

 Dunno if this is too small, but what the hell, worth a try. C628 (talk) 02:20, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I'm generally supportive of this, but the article looks like it may need some work. It seems highly inappropriate to be drawing defintive conslusions as to the nature of and cause of the crash at this early stage, as the infobox appears to do. Crispmuncher (talk) 02:35, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • It does? The only thing remotely close to that is the Controlled flight into terrain bit, which is the type of accident, in this case, flying an aircraft into the ground. It makes no implications as to why or how the aircraft was flown into the ground. C628 (talk) 02:38, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • How do you know it was under control? There are other issues in the same vein - how many survivors are there? Some of the injured are in critical condition and may not survive. It's a very good start for an article but we do not deal in speculation - information as it is available now needs the provisional nature emphasising - e.g. at least 44 fatalities, and I probably wouldn't quantify survivors at all in the infobox at this point. In the main article you may be able to do that, provided again it is emphasised that the information is subject to change, e.g. Initial reports stated that... While it is still of a speculative nature it does not qualify for a main page bold link, effectively meaning there is no ITN item. Crispmuncher (talk) 03:49, 21 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
  • Support - Getting some moderate coverage over here in the U.S. Speculation is fine as long as it is cited. Marcus Qwertyus 02:44, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral It is getting coverage, would change to support if more than one nationality was involved i.e. Russian Airline, Russian built plane, Russian Engines, in Russia, with as of now, no conformation on any non-Russian's on board. If it turns out not to be a Russian full house would move to week support. Mtking (talk) 03:08, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: International coverage. Could change blurb to mention 2010 Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash. GaneshBhakt (talk) 06:36, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Why the hell would you want to bring an unrelated accident occurring over a year ago into a blurb about an item presently newsworthy?! StrPby (talk) 08:55, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I said could not have to. Also, it ain't unrelated, the aircraft is the same.
Strong support - should be posted right now. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 12:01, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Yet another fog-related Russian aircraft disaster. ~AH1 (discuss!) 12:32, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 19

June 19, 2011 (2011-06-19) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

Death of Brian Haw

 
Brian Haw
Article: Brian Haw (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Peace campaigner Brian Haw (pictured) dies at the age of 62. (Post)
News source(s): The Daily Telegraph obituary, The Independent obituary, Reuters India, Gulf News, ABC News Australia, Al Jazeera, Press TV, BBC, Radio New Zealand, San Francisco Chronicle

Nominator's comments: His death is being reported internationally, he was quite young and the death seems significant, appearing to meet 2. The deceased was a very important figure in their field of expertise, and was recognised as such. He camped in Parliament Square in all weathers and even through Christmas for the last decade of his life despite several legal attempts to have him removed (including one as recently as March when the London mayor forced him to move onto a pavement). A replica of his protest won the 2007 Turner Prize. He was also named Most Inspiring Political Figure by news viewers with 54 per cent of votes (Tony Blair received 8 per cent and David Cameron received 6 per cent). His obituary in The Daily Telegraph describes him as having "acquired the status of a folk hero" and a "symbol of protest". Reuters India says he "became a familiar sight to millions of Londoners and tourists". Several publications have more than one article on his death, such as this one about a song or this one referring to him as "the conscience of a nation". I thought this was worth nominating as ITN had at least four sports deaths in May and this is at least slightly different. --candle•wicke 03:01, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Your disruptive interventions here are becoming tiresome. You are capable of making sensible contributions to discussion about which items are worth including, so please try to have enough self restraint to limit your comments here to those which are constructive, and stop trying to make nationality based points. FYI, Haws was not Irish and the current "score" is 4-1 in favour of the US. Kevin McE (talk) 06:59, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry. Another dead white man. We need to further our coverage of white men who recently died. –HTD 11:19, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I would hope that we can make choices about which person's death is worth including here based on the circumstances of the death, the importance of the person's life, and the state of their article; not the colour of their skin. Are you suggesting that we should have lowered the bar for posting Clarence Clemons because he was black? Of course, those who argue that priority should be given to anglophone nations are re-inforcing the systemic bias that you seem to be arguing against. Kevin McE (talk) 12:29, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support - covered in diverse sources and were 36 hours w/o an updateLihaas (talk) 17:23, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Whilst I can understand opposition based on the death criteria, his protest is certainly sufficiently notable - the story here is that his protest has finally ended after more than a decade. Even those who didn't like his politics recognised his determination and integrity in the face of adversity. His notability as a renowned peace protester was world-wide, as the diversity of news sources covering his death indicates (over 400 GNews hits and rising). Having said all that, the article could use a tidy first. Modest Genius talk 18:40, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support seems to be a seriously notable protestor. 10 years is a hell of a long time. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:22, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The update needs expansion. The death section does have three references but they all directly detail his death and CoD. There should be some reactions or something more significant.--Johnsemlak (talk) 20:11, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I added some reaction from Tony Benn and Mark Wallinger. Unfortunately I don't have time right now to do anything more. Modest Genius talk 20:25, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Updated sufficiently now. Marking [Ready]. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:43, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ironically, I would consider the two deaths below to be much more notable and worthy of inclusion based on the sources provided and appeal. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 22:34, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Those two don't have consensus and one of the nominations has even been withdrawn. --candle•wicke 22:36, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 22:39, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This item only has one oppose, your one doesn't count as it doesn't add any points, and the items in support are generally strong, especially the nominator. And this has been covered by sources around the world. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:41, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Is it not clear from the above that he is internationally recognisable? India, Iran, the Middle East, Australia, New Zealand, United States... :D --candle•wicke 22:56, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
News filler. If the internet did not exist, it would not be "news that's fit to print" on those countries. The internet gives us the false impression that news is "reported" elsewhere. He does not fall on any of the three of the death criteria: was not in a high-ranking office of power, and had a significant contribution/impact, was not a very important figure in their field of expertise (take note of the word "very"), nor did his death have a major international impact that affects current events. 400 Google news hits? The 2011 NHL Entry Draft had 800+ Google news hits, and Ryan Dunn had 2,5k Google news hits! Don't expect we'd get to see those in the Main Page. Ever. –HTD 03:47, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I agree with HTD's point above. I didnt' see Haw's death yesterday anywhere on the main BBC News website. I'm sure it was reported somewhere on the site but it's very low profile coverage.--Johnsemlak (talk) 06:49, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So he camped outside the British Parliament for 10 years what did he do that is of international significance ? Mtking (talk) 23:04, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Spanish protests

Article: 2011 Spanish protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ More than 100,000 people participate in nationwide protests against corruption and unemployment across Spain. (Post)
News source(s): Deutsche Welle, Sky News, The Sydney Morning Herald, Press TV, The Financial Times, Reuters Africa, CNN

Nominator's comments: More than 100,000 people have protested nationwide and it has been in the news internationally on nearly every continent so I thought it was worth nominating. The figure of more than 100,000 seems like a lot of people than is usual for this country. Around 40,000 in Madrid and around 50,000 in Barcelona source. --candle•wicke 02:10, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't quite call this a "revolution"... Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 02:16, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"The 2011 Spanish protests, also referred to as the 15-M Movement or the Spanish revolution"... the article gives it several titles. :) --candle•wicke 02:27, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Deutsche Welle, Sky News, The Sydney Morning Herald, Press TV, The Financial Times, Reuters Africa, CNN and lots of others seem to disagree... :D --candle•wicke 03:04, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
support number is pretty damng large, particularly ina countyr that doesnt see such mturnout (though that would be large anywhere)Lihaas (talk) 04:47, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
comment" update is not there on the article. can people find an article update it and then nominate.Lihaas (talk) 04:54, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: Is not the top story in Deutsche Welle (Greek austerity measures; you'd need to press page down twice to see the story)), Sky News (U.S. Open; this story not on the home page), The Sydney Morning Herald (Afghan killed Aussie soldier; this story not on the home page), Press TV (French troops kill Afghan civilians; this story relegated to the videos section), The Financial Times (Greece austerity measures; this story relegated to the 4th bullet point in the world section)... you get the point. –HTD 06:20, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose": All eyes are on Greece; Spain didn't even make my evening newscast. --Ohconfucius ¡digame! 07:22, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I dont feel 90k is enough really, especially for a two centre protest. The London protests we posted got over 200k people turning up. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:55, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Rory McIlroy wins U.S. Open

Article: Rory McIlroy (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In golf, Rory McIlroy of Northern Ireland wins the 2011 U.S. Open, with a record score of 16 under par (Post)
News source(s): latimes.com washingtonpost.com reuters.com
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Tiger who? Marcus Qwertyus 00:49, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pretty sure the target article needs to be 2011 U.S. Open (golf) and not Rory McIlroy. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 01:19, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Good point, I missed that - that was the article I checked anyway. Crispmuncher (talk) 01:29, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Last year the target was the athlete. Marcus Qwertyus 01:46, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In which case it isn't ITNR. ITNR applies to the event article in this situation. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 01:49, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wikilawyering are we? The reoccurring event is much more important than the target of the blurb. Marcus Qwertyus 01:59, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, way to assume bad faith. Please retract that. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 02:03, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The statement is intended to be entirely objective with no underlying malice. Marcus Qwertyus 02:09, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Accusing someone of wikilawyering—"a pejorative term which describes various questionable ways of judging other Wikipedians' actions"—isn't malicious? Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 02:19, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think what you meant by that was: Oh okay. I was just a little suspicious because the internet is a terrible conduit for interpreting emotion but now I see there is no malice between us. Is my word not enough? Marcus Qwertyus 02:25, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't true. Man Booker Prize and Nobel Prize in Literature are ITNR but are not updated with a paragraph every time someone wins. There is another example on the Main Page right now. --candle•wicke 01:53, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sport events generally have an article for the actual event that took place that year. Literature articles are generally harder to find an update for; there aren't hoards of fans who work to 2011 Man Booker Prize articles and the like.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:19, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Again: In golf, Rory McIlroy of Northern Ireland wins the U.S. Open, setting a record score and becoming the youngest winner since Bobby Jones in 1923. ;-) --bender235 (talk) 13:29, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If you mention the youngest part Bobby Jones shouldn't be mentioned unless Tiger is. Marcus Qwertyus 13:40, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Quite so: Jones has even less to do with the events of the last few days than Woods. Kevin McE (talk) 14:11, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That section is not the target. BBC Sport article reffed in lead. Kevin McE (talk) 14:18, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Its got a couple of sources now. Marking [Ready]. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:21, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No citation for the Tiger Woods part, either in the WP article or the WaPo story. Posting the first part of the blurb though. NW (Talk) 21:28, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Changed blurb to record 16 under par which is sourced. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:42, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Updated. NW (Talk) 22:52, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Peace deal 'urgent', says Shimon Peres

Source for story.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:01, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
obvious oppose(id think) 1. wheres the article. 2. its a comment, nothing has been made.Lihaas (talk) 16:57, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Where's the story here? What do we run as the blurb? It is once again proven that politicians, especially those in the Middle East are full of hot air and too busy making statements about what they're thinking of maybe doing instead of actually, y'know, trying to solve the problem? That's not news. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:43, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for the same grounds as the previous ones. This is essentially political commentary, not a substantive development. Would this single comment ever justify five sentences of coverage in an otherwise steady-state article? Crispmuncher (talk) 19:51, 19 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]

North-South Sudan conflict escalation

Source for story.--BabbaQ (talk) 13:46, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
the nom doesnt need to add support. its implicit.Lihaas (talk) 16:59, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
oppose as Crysal Ball for "imminence" we dont post that unless there is a conflict (i beleive something was posted last week, could be wrong) and wheres the article. ou can bet bottom dollar nothing will be [posted without an articlenom. See the edit box and youll find the ITN candidate template.Lihaas (talk) 16:59, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
We haven't posted anything on this one yet. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:22, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support some kind of mention of the conflict ITN, since it hasn't been featured yet. Thue | talk 18:37, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose "conflict imminent" is original research (not to mention wild speculation) and moving a few armoured vehicles around isn't necessarily evidence of anything. But if we're going to post every small scale troop movement in a trouble spot, wed have nothing else on ITN (and we'd better sticky India and Pakistan, half of South America and most of sub-Saharan Africa for starters). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:48, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is too speculative and too quick to assume unfavourable scenarios. That a government is moving forces to protect what is soon to become an international border does not indicate imminent conflict. Does the US patrolling the Mexican border indicate those two countries are about to go to war? Crispmuncher (talk) 19:54, 19 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Is there some technical reason why this hasn't been posted yet? Or some big sports match in the way? Support μηδείς (talk) 02:40, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

umm, there is no consensus. What is the reason for your support? (remembering that ITN doesnt vote count for consensus)Lihaas (talk) 04:53, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like we were right to wait, I saw mention of a deal to demilitarise the area on the news earlier. That seems to scupper theories that a conflict is imminent and shows precisely why we don't do crystal ball stuff. Crispmuncher (talk) 22:02, 20 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]

June 18

June 18, 2011 (2011-06-18) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy
  • Oil prices hit a four-month low, with oil now at USD $93 per barrel. (Reuters)

Politics

Science

Clarence Clemons dies

Article: Clarence Clemons (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ E Street Band saxophonist Clarence Clemons, dies at the age of 69. (Post)
News source(s): Yahoo!
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Famous saxophonist. Trending topic. GaneshBhakt (talk) 14:26, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

oppose not notable. We re not going to list every band members death for every bandLihaas (talk) 17:01, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

South Korea army fault

South Korean marines fired rifles at a civilian jetliner as it was descending to land after mistaking it for a North Korean military aircraft. No victims, but this story has coverage and could have been a tragedy. [30] - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 15:08, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose "No victims" and "could have been a tragedy" is not enough for me personally. There are dozens of little incidents like this every year between the two countries. Besides they just fired rifles not anti-aircraft or other heavy artillery. The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 16:01, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Shooting at a civilian jetliner seems both unusual and dangerous. Has international coverage. CNN, Sky News, Agenzia Giornalistica Italia, The Daily Telegraph --candle•wicke 00:08, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Two stupid, under-trained, incompetent, 18 year old soldiers did something dumb, but harmless. That's the news here. HiLo48 (talk) 00:26, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you can bring down a commercial airliner with rifles fired so far away. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 04:10, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support per candlewicke - The Amazzing Race (talk) 08:37, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - There really is no story here, and what article could we possibly attach this to, given the lack of notability?--WaltCip (talk) 13:59, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I vote for the typical NOTNEWS-violating 2011 Somewhere happening of nothing much type title. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:50, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support How often does a country's military fire on a civilian airliner? KAL flight 007. μηδείς (talk) 02:46, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Renom2: China floods

This is ready for posting. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 12:54, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Should be posted until it's too late. Already six days after the floods are in the central attention and one day after the alert has been raised on higher level, we don't even have a discussion about this. Really strange.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:19, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Frederick Chiluba

Article: Frederick Chiluba (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The former Zambian President, Frederick Chiluba, dies at the age of 68. (Post)
News source(s): Frederick Chiluba dies
Credits:

Article needs updating

Since we always use to post the death of former head of state, and Chiluba was in office for 11 years, it's worth posting in my opinion.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:39, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The death section is currently too short. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:47, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose No discernible impact on current events -- he had been out of office for close to a decade. Not a worldwide figure in his time, either: Zambia is a small country with an economy half the size of Vermont's. That the article says very little about his 11 years in office but a whole heap about corruption allegations of which he was acquitted, does not bode well. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:20, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. He was President for 11 years. Zambia isn't small. --candle•wicke 00:12, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Presidents should be automatically notable. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:34, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I can see serving heads of state getting a mention; but notices of the deaths of former heads of state should be limited to those relatively few who made a lasting impact on world history and still have broad international name recognition. This man did not and does not. 81.148.250.34 (talk) 16:07, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 17

June 17, 2011 (2011-06-17) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy
  • Reuters quotes commodities traders who have observed in recent months that "violent, often inexplicable price moves" are becoming a good deal more common, especially in energy commodities such as natural gas. (Reuters)

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime

Politics

Sports

[Posted] Constitutional reform proposals by the King of Morocco

Article: 2011 Moroccan protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In response to the ongoing protests in Morocco, King Mohammed VI announces constitutional reform proposals to be voted on in a referendum. (Post)
News source(s): [31],[32],[33]
Credits:

Article updated

Although the reform proposals are not likely to satisfy the protesters, the King's response is unusual and uncharacteristic compared with the brute force reactions of most other Arab rulers to the Arab Spring protests, as noted by Nicholas Kristof in an NYT opinion column [34]. Nsk92 (talk) 01:48, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, as Kristof notes repeatedly, Morocco has long been one of the more open countries in the Arab World. I don't think that the King's response is so unique in his history. That being said, it seems the gravity of this change is on par with a new head of state in a democratic country, so :support.--Chaser (talk) 04:25, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support: One of the biggest news in MENA at the moment -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 09:29, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Any objections? --BorgQueen (talk) 05:48, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've tweaked the proposed blurb. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:55, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Howard, possibly for first time ever :@) Posted contrary to normal practice, with great haste (<5 hours after nom), and in the light of only one support comment, which seems less than wholehearted. It was announced in March that there would be a referendum, all we have here is confirmation of the options that will be put before the voters, so the defence that it is ITN because it is a response to current protests is scarcely timely. Should be pulled, at least until there has been some discussion of whether we wish to expand our coverage of referenda beyond announcement of their results. Kevin McE (talk) 14:14, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree this was posted fast. However, I think this is the real news. That a progressive, reformist king offered a referendum in March is news, but not surprising given the protests. The referendum passing is similar. But that an absolute monarch is semi-voluntarily offering to devolve power to the people is the most important news. This is the part we are posting. The details of the referendum is the most important part in a big step in the process of a monarchy becoming more free.--Chaser (talk) 20:06, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agent Orange cleanup

Article: Agent Orange#Help for those affected in Vietnam (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The United States has agreed Vietnam to help cleanup residue Agent Orange toxin sprayed by US forces during the Vietnam War (Post)
News source(s): Vietnam and US in joint venture to clean up Agent Orange damage
Credits:
oppose not globallyu notable bc the us alone agrees to smething. there ahvebeen lotsof multilateral agreements to clean up landmines the world over, we dont post thatLihaas (talk) 19:51, 18 June 2011 (UTC)::[reply]
I would also agree that it is not globallyu notable. I would add that that World Cup final that we posted was also not very notable. There have been lots of football matches between different nations and we don't post them all.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:45, 19 June 2011 (UTC)p.s. support[reply]
International notability isn't a requirement. Im certain this is today's biggest story in Vietnam - a country with 90 million people - if not the years biggest Vietnam story. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 03:26, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Any objections? --BorgQueen (talk) 07:08, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Where's the update?--Johnsemlak (talk) 12:09, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Good point, the current content is from 2010. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 13:44, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 16

June 16, 2011 (2011-06-16) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime

Politics

[Posted] New Lebanon govt

Article: Lebanese government of June 2011 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Prime Minister Najib Mikati appoints a new government in Lebanon. (Post)
Credits:

Article updated
possibly big repercussions with the first March 8 govt incl./ Hezbollah in gov ernment for the first time. (though itsd be pov to mention hezbollah as they are not the biggest player in govt nor tdo they lead the parliamentary group)Lihaas (talk) 07:20, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't this ITNR? As I believe so marking [Ready]. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:53, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
not sure b/c thre was no election. just a fall of govt and a new one now formed. Although it is ready pending support.Lihaas (talk) 08:50, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've no opinion either way, but I'd like to see some discussion, particularly on whether ITN/R is applicable, if for no other reason than I don;t want it pulled after a string of after-the-fact opposes. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 02:14, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Major implications for the whole territory. IIRC the fall of the previous government was covered as well. --hydrox (talk) 06:03, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

South Kordofan conflict

Article: South Kordofan conflict (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The UN has accused the Sudan

ese government of carrying out an "intensive bombing campaign" which has led to "huge suffering" for civilians in South Kordofan (Post)
News source(s): Sudan's South Kordofan: 'Huge suffering from bombs'Sudan: Barack Obama calls for ceasefire
Credits:
A major humanitarian crisis looming.Olegwiki (talk) 15:00, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] World's richest literary award

 
Colum McCann
Article: Colum McCann (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Colum McCann's novel Let the Great World Spin wins the International IMPAC Dublin Literary Award. (Post)
News source(s): [35] [36]
Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
This is an ITNR item and the article is updated... so I am posting soon. Hope no one yells at me. :D --BorgQueen (talk) 14:51, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The update in the bolded article is pretty much bare minimum and consists mostly of a quote from the judging panel. I won't remove, but if someone can find anything else to add to it, that would be good. SpencerT♦C 21:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  Done --candle•wicke 21:53, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, that's much better now. SpencerT♦C 01:03, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] New head of al-Qaeda

Article: Ayman al-Zawahiri (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Ayman al-Zawahiri is selected as the successor of leadership of al-Qaeda succeeding Osama bin Laden (Post)
News source(s): cnn.com, washingtonpost.com, bbc.co.uk
Credits:

Nominator's comments: al-Zawahiri has been considered by most people as the next logical successor to Osama bin Laden. Marcus Qwertyus 08:53, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support, Al Qaeda is important. Thue | talk 20:04, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support seems like a worthwhile posting and they are very high profile. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:34, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This is what is called a press release, and was a forgone conclusion when Usama was made hagfish fodder. There is no NEWS here. μηδείς (talk) 20:37, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Question: Wasn't he pretty much in charge anyway when bin Laden was holed up in that house? SpencerT♦C 21:06, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And Ayman_al-Zawahiri#Appointment needs expansion. SpencerT♦C 21:12, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Posted RxS (talk) 23:49, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

IBM

Article: IBM (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ IBM announce funding for volunteer work by employees as part of celebrating 100 years in business (Post)
News source(s): IBM celebrates 100th anniversary

Nominator's comments: They turn 100 today, which seems pretty notable :) My blurb isn't very good... suggested improvements? Errant (chat!) 08:33, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose, anniversaries like this belong in On this day... NW (Talk) 11:10, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • They're turning 100 today... not in the past :) Has been all over the news the last week or so *shrug* --Errant (chat!) 11:23, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Perhaps it is a fact that I get a large portion of my news through NPR/BBC radio these days, but I honestly hadn't heard about it until now. If you want, I can add a "1911 - IBM is founded" or "June 16, 100th anniversary of the founding of IBM" to OTD. That's what we generally do in cases like this, unless the anniversary is exceptionally notable (off the top of my head, to me it would have to be more notable than July 2/4, 2026 [250th] or even 15 June 2215 [1000th]). NW (Talk) 12:49, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Greek economic crisis escalates

Article: Economy_of_Greece#2010-2011_debt_crisis (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Amidst protests and deepening economic crisis, Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou submits a new cabinet for a vote of confidence (Post)
News source(s): [37][38][39]

Nominator's comments: The news is full of this in the past couple of days, and all major stock exchanges are suffering losses.Crnorizec (talk) 08:55, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article makes it sound as if this happened three days ago. Is that the case? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:23, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, it is a developing story. It started to escalate since 2-3 days ago, when the negotiations between the government and the opposition failed. Crnorizec (talk) 15:27, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose This is more Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead, not news. μηδείς (talk) 20:40, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE for the more notable finance minister (which is why greek markets were up when others were down today). its also more signiicant in domestic politics b/c apparently he was the PM's rival once-upon-a-timeLihaas (talk) 11:09, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 15

June 15, 2011 (2011-06-15) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters

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Politics and elections

Science

Sport

CIA website knocked offline

Article: LulzSec (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Support: as Nom. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 23:08, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose LulzSec does this with websites nearly biweekly now. No sensitive information was on the site, and the AP article suggested that increased traffic from the LulzSec Twitter announcement may have also contributed to the crash. SpencerT♦C 01:14, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, as ballsy messing with the CIA is... its a simple DDoS attack, knowing how little traffic the page gets I could probably arrange DDoS attack on a server like that simply by posting to 4chan and letting the /b/tard's do it for me. No skill at all DDoS attacks even if it against the CIA... The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 01:53, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Wording is misleading. Confidential information within CIA databases themselves have not been compromised.--WaltCip (talk) 02:44, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, simple DOS attack on website which is not infrastructure-critical. Thue | talk 07:44, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Game 7 of the 2011 Stanley Cup Finals

Won't jinx any team this time by suggesting a blurb. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 17:39, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If Vancouver win we should mention that they are the first Canadian team to win the Stanley Cup since 1993.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:41, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
ITNR. Worth noting if the Canucks win that it would be the franchise's first title, I believe, while if the Bruins win it would be Boston's first in decades. StrPby (talk) 23:42, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Boston did it. A hook at the Current Events portal reads, "The Boston Bruins defeat the Vancouver Canucks to win the 2011 Stanley Cup Finals, for the first time since 1972." That might be a good start for now. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 02:50, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Game 7 doesn't have a prose update. Should we wait on it? NW (Talk) 03:01, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also, this is going in by default anyways, but a better hook is, "The Boston Bruins defeat the Vancouver Canucks 4-0 in Game 7 to win the 2011 Stanley Cup Finals in the North American National Hockey League." Kevin Rutherford (talk) 03:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We don't need to mention North American, but we should put "In ice hockey" at the front as per norm. Tim Thomas won MVP, that should be mentioned as well. --PlasmaTwa2 03:04, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I forgot we added that too. Once we get a picture of him, that can be added as well. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 03:18, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
We do not normally post the scores of games on ITN and this should be no different. Just mention the win and the Conn Smythe winner. StrPby (talk) 03:47, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should also mention the riots in Vancouver... Shark96z (talk · contribs) 03:08, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, riots occur with a lot of championships, so it really isn't that big of a deal. If anything, it would overshadow the event and make the hook unwieldy with so many facts. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 03:18, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  Administrator note 2011 Stanley Cup Finals#Game seven now appears to have something resembling a prose update, but it lacks refs. I'd be willing to post if someone could add a few inline citation to that section. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:16, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I added one. Hot Stop (c) 13:32, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Posted. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:45, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I suggesting mentioning the riots in the blurb. The Toronto Globe and Mail calls them the 'worst in the city's history'. 150 people are injured, and thousands took part. These are no ordinary sports riots.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:49, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lunar eclipse

June 2011 lunar eclipse

The center of Earth's shadow falls on the moon this time, thereby making this a pretty dark one. (last was in 2000). Partial eclipse starts 18:23 UT. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:35, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose this should have been posted beforehand, when it actually was news, not now that it is dead history. μηδείς (talk) 20:42, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Uprisings in Athens and Barcelona

Articles: 2011 Greek uprising (talk · history · tag) and 2011 Spanish protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45]

 The Greeks are revolting... --candle•wicke 15:01, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please do something about the merge tag first. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:07, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Should it be removed? Barcelona now as well. --candle•wicke 15:59, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
How about "As part of the impact of the Arab Spring that effecting the world, protests in both Spain and Greece accelerate"? Just a thought -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 16:45, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think this is to do with the Arab Spring, it might do in Spain, but in Greece its the austerity measures. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:53, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The impact of the Arab Spring and the 2011 Spanish protests were a major source of influence for the latest wave of anti-government protests in Greece.Outraged Greek youth follow Spanish example Quote: First the Arab world, then Madrid, now Athens. Outraged Greek youth has taken its lead from the Arab spring and Spanish protests over unemployment -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 18:33, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The alleged 2011 Greek uprising is part of the 2010–2011 Greek protests that emerged half a year before the Jasmine revolution. So the influence of the Arab Spring is limited on the base of the initial grounds of the Greek protests.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:34, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Also, slightly related, eggs were thrown at bank executives in Ireland earlier. The bank executives were told they "should all be taken out and bloody shot". --candle•wicke 20:46, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose this is flagrant, shameless WP:SYNTHESIS. μηδείς (talk) 20:43, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe the "Arab Spring" shouldn't be mentioned? --candle•wicke 20:47, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Italian referendum

Article: Italian referendum, 2011 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): [46] [47]
Article needs updating
The article needs more prose update. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:25, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Seems well worthy of posting, Berlusconi losing a referendum with such a margin is a big deal. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:54, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict in South Sudan

Article: No article specified
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)

This seems to have escalated and aid agencies are finding it difficult to operate. BBC, Al Jazeera. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:24, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support in principle. The border dispute in Sudan is very significant, and IIRC we have featured it yet. Thue | talk 14:02, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 14

June 14, 2011 (2011-06-14) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime
  • In the first case of its kind to be heard in the United Kingdom, a former juror who admitted contacting a defendant via Facebook has been convicted of contempt of court. (BBC)
  • Another land campaigner is shot dead in Brazil's Amazon basin with five activists shot dead in the past month. (BBC)

Politics

[Posted] Renom: 2011 China Floods

Article: 2011 China Floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 10 Million people affected by ongoing flooding in China, causing more than 3 billion USD in economic damages, more than half a million people evacuated, and at least 200 dead or missing. (Post)
News source(s): http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2011-06/09/c_13919421.htm
Credits:

These have been ongoing, and the article now looks pretty good. And it looked to have consensus earlier this month. I think posting on the 14th would be OK, as the floods were still occurring then. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:34, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest new Blurb - 10 Million people affected by ongoing flooding in China, causing more than 3 billion USD in economic damages, more than half a million people evacuated, and at least 200 dead or missing since the start of June.
Also flooding still ongoing on 17th with more rain forecast EdwardLane (talk) 09:32, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking about adding Flooding in China to the sidebar for ongoing events - disasters section. But I don't know where to nominate it for that - is it here at ITN ? or can someone just go ahead and add it without a nomination process? and incidentally does that affect the nomination for ITN if that happens? EdwardLane (talk) 12:48, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You are welcome to add there. No, no nomination necessary, and it does not affect the nom here.--BorgQueen (talk) 12:50, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK I shall - though it seems like that there ought to be a nomination process for that - it's almost as public as ITN articles :) EdwardLane (talk) 12:54, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I find the article still being of poor quality, not enough prose. Support if the article gets a light improvement. --Kslotte (talk) 16:47, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I tweaked the prose somewhat, I agree that the original content was still in it's 'stub like' form - merely providing the data rather than telling the tale. Please elaborate on the article if you fell the inclination, i've sure it could do with more to make it to 'featured article status' :) EdwardLane (talk) 21:31, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ready to go in my opinion. It will easily get improved even more once on main page. Do we get some support to post? --Kslotte (talk) 22:15, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hasn't this waited long enough? This has been in the news longer than the richest literary prize no one has heard about. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 11:52, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Pulled] 2011 Bahraini uprising

Article: 2011 Bahraini uprising (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Bahrain commences the trials of 48 medical professionals who treated injured protesters during the popular uprising. (Post)
News source(s): (Al Jazeera)
Article updated
Support: as Nom. The article needs updating but this is big news and its a clear violation of Human rights -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 11:00, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The blurb has to be shortened. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:03, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Changed it, what do you think? -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 11:21, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Seems like it's including too many words to say something simple... why not "Bahrain commences the trials of 48 medical professionals who treated injured protesters during the popular uprising"? Why specify the rulers, it's presumably the state versus, and we don't need to say it's to hound, it's pretty explicitly in retaliation for them rendering aid. --Golbez (talk) 13:22, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, Go ahead and change it :-) -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 13:37, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:40, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support Very important news and a rare example of verified human rights violation, and if this is something that is a legal issue, I doubt we can seriously talk about human rights. --Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:06, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 13

June 13, 2011 (2011-06-13) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters

International relations

Politics and elections

Sport

Spanish national police force website knocked offline

Article: Anonymous (group) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Anonymous knocks the wesbite of the Spanish national police force offline. (Post)
News source(s): BBC News

 --candle•wicke 18:24, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose: A website going down for an hour? Meh. Anonymous has taken down bigger sites for longer periods but I don't think I would support them for ITN either. --Golbez (talk) 18:41, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Does it regularly happen to police forces? I thought it was unusual but maybe it isn't. --candle•wicke 18:43, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't say it happens regularly but I don't think being a police force necessarily means your site is better secured than PayPal's or Mastercard's. :) Now, it they took down the Spanish ministry of defence, or something actually sensitive to data security, then we might have a story. --Golbez (talk) 18:58, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] A Gay Girl In Damascus hoax

Article: Amina Abdallah Araf al Omari (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A Gay Girl In Damascus, highly popular opposition blog during the 2011 Syrian uprising, is proven to be a hoax. (Post)
News source(s): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-13747761
Credits:

Nominator's comments: A major story, which shows an important aspect of the picture of all those Arab world Twitter and Facebook revolutions, how easily even a common man from the West can manipulate the events using modern technology. GreyHood Talk 17:43, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support. An interesting and notable story, showing how easily Western media can be mislead because of their reliance on "rebel" blogs and twitter accounts in their coverage of the Arab revolutions. Nanobear (talk) 17:47, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The article currently is not in a good condition. --BorgQueen (talk) 17:50, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Actually it seems the article was significantly updated throughout this day, the tag is obsolete. GreyHood Talk 17:57, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I struck my comment. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:07, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Just for the record, how many top news sites have eaten this story: CNN, FOXNEWS, Guardian, ALARABIYA, Washington Post, Washington Times, Daily Mail, Al-Jazeera, Telegraph. GreyHood Talk 18:04, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support looks to have got significant international coverage, seems to be highly notable, and is a bit different from what we normally post. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:26, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Belgium

Article: 2010–2011 Belgian government formation (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Since the last election on June 13 2010, Belgium has now gone a full year without a government. (Post)
News source(s): [48]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Not an event but the lack of one, but perhaps worth noting all the same. As the article notes, Belgium has broken all world records for time taken to form a government. Robofish (talk) 14:13, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Would prefer to say "Belgium forms a government after X days of not having one" when they finally get around to it. NW (Talk) 15:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(ec)Comment Is there an article that's been updated or even can be updated? Other than "still no gov't", I'm not sure what can be added. Makeemlighter (talk) 15:49, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support I would have liked to post this earlier when they broke Cambodia's record maybe, but I think going without a government for a whole year is significant, and I doubt its happened at all during the 20th or 21st centuries - I think if we're being honest before the 20th century places would have gone without a government for longer than a year. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:24, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There weren't that many parliamentary democracies before the 20th century.--Chaser (talk) 03:30, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Belgians say that they are just smarter than everyone else, and that other people are simply jealous... Furthermore, they don't seem to be in a hurry to form a government, so it's no news. Crnorizec (talk) 22:43, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Significant record, widely reported. This is a recurring problem in Belgium, but that they've gone an entire year is a bad sign for Belgian bonds and consumer confidence. If their bonds get downgraded in the next few days, then strong support.--Chaser (talk) 03:30, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Interesting topic with a decent article. We don't need to wait for a bright line here, this is something that will interest readers. It may not be "news" (whatever that means) but ITN isn't a news source. It's certainly in the news. And in any case there are real consequences here beyond the formation of the government whenever that happens. RxS (talk) 04:13, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support The Belgian situation is noteworthy, and this is a good chance to feature it. Thue | talk 07:41, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. There doesn't seem to be much significance in this beyond achieving an arbitrary record. If this is actually having an effect on Belgians' daily lives, I can't discern that from the article. Seems less significant than the near-government shutdown of the US, which would have had real effects.--Johnsemlak (talk) 11:28, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, post when they finally gets an government. They will probably beat the time record also tomorrow. --Kslotte (talk) 19:09, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per NW and Johnsemlak. --Mkativerata (talk) 19:51, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment About the world record thing, how sure are we? Considering it apparently took over 1 month for anyone in the media to notice that Cambodia was longer then Iraq [49] and we announced this non world record on the main page for about 14 hours [50] [51] and are still saying it in the archives Wikipedia:ITN archives/2011/February I'm not sure if we should trust them to have properly checked up on this. Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/February 2011#Belgian government deadlock is also relevant. Did we at least get high quality RS making the claim this time? Nil Einne (talk) 20:08, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Guardian NY Times. Some references are to "modern record", others simply to "record", so I cannot tell whether they mean that this is a modern record because democratic governance is modern or a modern record because we don't have good documentation. Someone should call Guinness.--Chaser (talk) 22:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] 65th Tony Awards

Article: 65th Tony Awards (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Book of Mormon wins nine award categories, including Best Musical, at the 65th Annual Tony Awards. (Post)
News source(s): The Washington Post
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Possibly minority topic, if this is considered culture news. Feel free to modify if it isn't. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 04:42, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] 2011 NBA Finals

The Dallas Mavericks win. ITNR Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:50, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

 
Dirk Nowitzki
That's how I saw it too. Maybe it's at least a positive step towards some American editors at least thinking about the impact of posting seeming purely American material here. Just one of those stages in awareness and acceptance. (And I still totally in support of the posting of this item.) HiLo48 (talk) 20:54, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Me too; this is a no-brainer! But do we really have to attack every hypothetical person trying to promote an international perspective? Lampman (talk) 21:40, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
My comment wasn't meant to "attack" anyone; it's just that sometimes, someone - typically new to ITN - opposes because it's a sports league in only one country, and I just wanted to make my comment clear that the finals did have some international effect. I apologize for being a little bitey. SpencerT♦C 02:29, 14 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 12

June 12, 2011 (2011-06-12) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Politics and elections

Sports

[Reposted] End of the 24 Hours of Le Mans

 
Article: 2011 24 Hours of Le Mans (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Marcel Fässler, André Lotterer and Benoît Tréluyer with Audi R18 TDI (pictured) win the 2011 edition of the Le Mans 24 Hours (Post)
News source(s): Official schedule Telegraph AFP

[Posted] Turkish general election, 2011

Article: Turkish general election, 2011 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Turkish prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is elected into a third term, and the AK Party retains its seat majority in parliament. (Post)
News source(s): MSNBC
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Erdoğan is expected to win his third term in office as Prime Minister. If AK wins 330 of 550 seats in parliament, they will be able to rewrite the 1982 constitution. AK held 331 seats after the previous election. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 08:52, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Withdrawn] IMF suffers "major breach" in cyberattack

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: IMF (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ IMF announces that its computer system has been hacked. (Post)
News source(s): [52] [53] [54]
  • Um - What's a "foreign government"? Being an independent body, surely all governments are foreign to the IMF. (I know those words come from the first source, but that does seem odd wording.) The second source says "IMF officials declined to say where they believe the attack originated." Quite a different perspective. The third source didn't work for me. But the big issue here is that the attack happened a month ago. The news is that they have now announced it. Not sure how we handle this. HiLo48 (talk) 06:28, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • I changed the blurb. According to the sources, IMF told its staff and its board of directors about it just a few days ago and made a public announcement just now. We generally feature when they make official announcements and confirmations, although there have been occasional exceptions. In this case, they had kept it secret even from its own people. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:35, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose no details of precisely what was breached: without that it is nothing unusual, like those quotes that there are 80 succesful hacks into the Pentagon every day. I don't see fresh content either, and the IMF article (the only one linked to) has an issues template at the top of it. Crispmuncher (talk) 06:55, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose until details are know about what was taken, if it turns out to be of simular significance to the SecureID breach then post. Mtking (talk) 08:02, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Point taken, thanks. I withdraw the nomination. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:05, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

June 11

June 11, 2011 (2011-06-11) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Law and crime

Politics

[Posted] Death of Fazul Abdullah Mohammed

Article: Fazul Abdullah Mohammed (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Senior al-Qaeda leader Fazul Abdullah Mohammed is killed by Somali soldiers in Mogadishu, Somalia. (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

[Posted] Siege of Jisr ash-Shugur

Article: Siege of Jisr ash-Shugur (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Thousands of Syrians fled to Turkey as Syrian troops lay siege to the town of Jisr ash-Shugur. (Post)
News source(s): Al-Jazeera, NY Times

Nom. Most important development in the region right now. --bender235 (talk) 12:56, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Major refugee crisis is unfolding. ~AH1 (discuss!) 13:52, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This new article on the seige needs more work.--Chaser (talk) 16:07, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This is a pretty big story, considering BBC is doing live updates. I'm uncomfortable with the large amount of quoted text in the lead, though. Turkey reports 4,300 have crossed the border with Syria. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 02:13, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support it seems like Syrians are so hot to get out of that country that they are fleeing to their traditional enemies like Turkey and Israel (featured in the news lately too). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 03:24, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Start of the 24 Hours of Le Mans (15:00 CEST)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2011 24 Hours of Le Mans (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The 2011 edition of the Le Mans 24 Hours endurance race begins at the Circuit de la Sarthe in France, with the finish due at 15:00 CEST on Sunday 12 June (Post)
News source(s): Official schedule Telegraph AFP
Credits:
Nominator's comments: The finish is ITN/R, but I don't see why we shouldn't be posting the start too, seeing as the event is over 24 hours long, and all the interesting things about it are pretty much over once the race actually finishes (or at least by the time we normally get around to posting the fact that it has finished). In addition, they've been playing around with the traditional start time in the last few years, so posting the start/finish time will be useful for casual fans of the race, aswell as complete newcomers. MickMacNee (talk) 00:38, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seems like an interesting idea, and then replace it with the results? Like it.. RxS (talk) 01:17, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Chance for us to be ahead of the curve, post when the race starts, amend when the race finishes. Mtking (talk) 01:23, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A very good idea assuming we get an update and not a second nom when it ends. μηδείς (talk)
  • Support Provided it is updated and not bumped when the result is known. Crispmuncher (talk) 03:42, 11 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
  • Support based on same reasoning as above. --Kslotte (talk) 06:04, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support sounds like a good idea frankly. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:10, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Vroooom!! and per above--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:07, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, at risk of having already been snowballed. This is a radical departure from convention, and introduces a whole new approach to ongoing events. That is not necessarily a bad thing, it should be properly discussed as a matter of policy, not introduced ad hoc. I fear this being claimed as precedent for announcing start of voting, beginning of trials, first stage of competitions, etc. Our objective is not to be the first port of call for those seeking news updates, it is to highlight Wiki articles that refer to current events: this appears to be an attempt to be first reporters. Kevin McE (talk) 10:54, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Our objective is to direct people to articles they might be interested in. And this is ITN, ad hoc judgements are its stock in trade. I could care less about setting a precedent, people are well able to resist such claims here, as they often do. Sure, we can have a 'discussion' about this 'ground-breaking' change, but with the race due to start in an hour, making that request here would seem to be pretty pointless, designed to do nothing but torpedo a nomination that was getting snowball support, for purely bureaucratic reasons. And we don't do pointless bureaucracy for the sake of it. MickMacNee (talk) 12:09, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Do you really mean you could care less, or do you mean you couldn't care less? It's so often misused these days. 80.42.155.205 (talk) 12:20, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose mostly per Kevin. It seems that the reasoning "all the interesting things about it are pretty much over once the race actually finishes" holds true for most sports events. Would we post the beginning of the Masters or Wimbledon? To me, the news is that a competition has ended with so-and-so victorious. When we do post the start of an event (e.g. the Olympics), the beginning has a newsworthiness that this event's start lacks. Makeemlighter (talk) 11:08, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • This a continuous 24 hour endurance race. A single event. It's not a series of golf rounds, it's not a tournament of tennis matches, and the 'start' is not a distinct 'ceremony'. As has been suggested above, when it finishes, we wouldn't be posting that as a separate 'event', but merely modifying the hopefully already posted blurb with the winners name. That's obviously not going to be desirable or practical for weekend long golf tournaments, or 2 week long tennis tournaments. The correct analogy is to continuous events like the royal wedding and space missions which we do post when they start, not other sporting events. MickMacNee (talk) 12:09, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Well, it's started. Wikipedia strikes again. MickMacNee (talk) 13:00, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for final results, for the most part I agree with Kevin McE. The race starting isn't news; its finish and winners are. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 13:13, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The most popular endurance race in the world, and one of the pearls of the racing sports is by far sufficient to me. I also agree that should be posted only the final results.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:14, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    The final result is already ITNR. MickMacNee (talk)
  • Support posting now, I like the idea of highlighting an ongoing event as it's ongoing. C628 (talk) 13:17, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment As far as 'the news' goes, which ITN supposedly isn't, barring a worse major incident happening, the main event of the race that the news reports will be focussing on after the finish, has already happened within the first hour, which is what? 25-26 hours before Wikipedia will ever get round to posting even the final result. MickMacNee (talk) 14:13, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Additional comment I just wanted to make a point that nothing's precedent unless we want it to be. The format of the race is as interesting to non-race fans as the final result. None of the other examples given above in opposition have formats exotic enough to be valid comparisons. Hopefully this is a step in the direction of ITN being a little less rules bound and pedantic. RxS (talk) 14:15, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I'm not sure I like the idea of sporting events being posted at their start. The article is already going to be suffering from lots of edits and edit conflicts, putting it on the front page is only going to make it worse. Very little will be written about the race itself, and I'm not fond of people attempting to start writing a race report now when the race still has 23 hours to go. Further, I'd argue the article is not really good enough at the moment for something to be listed on the front page. The359 (Talk) 14:36, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Exposing it to people who might want to read/edit it is the whole point of ITN. Opposing it on those grounds is completely irrelevant and invalid, as it goes against the whole point of Wikipedia. If you feel uncomfortable with people editting it, I'd suggest that's an issue for you not ITN/Wikpedia. The article looks fine to me, and any deteriation in quality due to poor edits can be dealt with in the normal way using reversion/protection/education, as happens every day on all the other articles posted to the Main Page. MickMacNee (talk) 14:49, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
ITN is not to expose people to articles, it's for notable news items. The winners are notable, the start is not. Claiming this is an attempt to WP:OWN is just down right silly. There is not a problem with people editing it, the problem is with people attempting to turn the article into an up to the minute live update and trying to cover any and every moment. Wikipedia does not need an instant updated race report, there is nothing wrong with having a race report wait until after the race is over.
The article completely lacks any discussion of the race weekend, no test day coverage, no practice, no qualifying coverage except for some tables. In fact there's very little prose in the article at all. This is not what passes for ITN quality. The359 (Talk) 14:58, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You are completely wrong. ITN does not require articles to be fully complete before posting, and ITN is not the news - it exists to draw readers and editors into articles on current events, the very people who might expand it beyond what it already is to include the things you mention. The idea that Wikipedia has to wait until the race is over before anyone can start adding info to the article is utterly ludicrous, and the idea that we prevent articles from going on the main page to make it less likely they will get poor updates is equally so. MickMacNee (talk) 15:06, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, we don't require articles to be fully complete, but we do require a substantial update before posting other than in exceptional circumstances, and that's a good reason against posting it right now. If it was updated, it would be a different story. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 15:11, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that it had started was already updated, and now that's been missed, so has the race summary with the first major event. God knows what else you think needs to be there to make this a 'substantial' update, but please let's not pretend that you are suddenly going to support this if it arrived. You think that the race is only 'news' once its finished and thus doesn't belong until then, even though ITN isn't 'the news' (and the fact of the matter is that in the real world, the coverage of the race doesn't peak at all after the event, certainly not in these days of instant coverage, and in the case of the live TV coverage, that shuts down just 15 minutes after the end - that's how much they give a shit about telling people about the race after the event). So, you'll have to strike that view if you want me to believe the above and put any more time into this nonsense. As always, pissing around with ITN/C has already substantially ruined my own personal enjoyment of the actual event itself. MickMacNee (talk) 16:24, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
ITN does not require articles to be complete if they're brand new articles on sudden events. This is a planned event and an article that has existed for a year now. That it completely lacks much of the background for the race does not make it something we should be promoting on the Main Page. Hell, the 2010 24 Hours of Le Mans was never even posted on the Main Page after the race because it was equally poor and not truly up to date. Again, please read what I said: I have no problem with people editing the article, but the article should not act as a live race report. The359 (Talk) 15:22, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Rubbish. Please point me to any wording that remotely says articles on planned events need to be complete before going on ITN, or anything like it. It doesn't exist. You don't spend much time at ITN/C, and it's showing. You do however spend a lot of time patrolling and reverting race articles, so please, just stop pretending that your opposition is gounded in anything other than the completely invalid and totally unwiki reason of not wanting people to see the article, and thus edit it as it happens. That is not Wikipedia and that is not ITN. Accept it. The 2010 nomination was opposed (including by me!) because it didn't have a single referenced update, even after it had finished! In contrast to your non-reason for this race (and your opposition to the 2010 for not being 'complete'), that's actually a valid oppose. And not posting the 2011 race now only makes it more likely that this will be exactly what happens again. MickMacNee (talk) 16:24, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nobody said complete. But the article now is inadequate and not up to date. There is a major difference. Wikipedia:In the news#Updated content seems to quite clearly state that the article needs to have some sort of major update in order to qualify for ITN. Your proposal is that the article should be put in ITN before any update has occured.
WP:AGF clearly needs mention, and it's completely moronic to claim that I don't want people to see an article, or to claim that I am here under some sort of false pretense. Don't even begin to start to lecture someone on "what ITN is" while you want to twist around the very basic criteria for it! The359 (Talk) 16:52, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And of course the article can be updated enough to be posted on ITN after the race. See 2007 24 Hours of Le Mans or 2009 24 Hours of Le Mans. All it requires is people to take the time to work on it, which did not appear to happen last year. If it's posted on ITN several hours after the race ends, it's not a problem. The 2011 Indianapolis 500 certainly was not up on ITN when the race ended. The359 (Talk) 16:52, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Now you're just flat out bullshitting. I have not once proposed the article be posted before it's updated - I was the one who made sure it was up to date in the first place. If you want to be a pain in the ass about it, I can easily go and update it right now to meet the letter of the requirement and add a couple more sentences to make it 5, and add 1 more reference to make it 3, there's plenty more to say from sources already, but I'm not going to because it's clear that's not what's behind your opposition. I am not going to be fucked around here and waste time doing this when that's not the real objection. The real issue here is your complete lack of clue that ITN exists to draw the editors in who would make the updates of the size you wrongly think ITN demands. You wouldn't have a problem with that if you were not planning to do the update all by yourself, and were concerned about people messing it up before you can do it. MickMacNee (talk) 17:19, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What update? That the race started at a certain time and Audi was on pole? That's an update? Certainly one could have ascertained the pole position just by looking at the qualifying results table further down the article. You did propose that the article be added to ITN at the race start, at which time there was no major update. This was the only update after it started, an hour and a half into the race. What sort of piss poor writing is this? Nothing about the race start but as soon as there's a wreck, the article's suddenly updated with two sentences!
And now you're claiming that you have more than enough time and ability to add to the summary of the article and include references, and you're not going to do it because I'm opposing your ITN nomination? How is that "The Wikipedia thing to do"? How petty and paranoid to claim that I have some sort of hidden motivation.
Since you seem to be so adament of what ITN demands, here's sentence one: "The In the news (ITN) section on the main page serves to direct readers to articles that have been substantially updated to reflect recent or current events of wide interest." Emphasis mine. ITN is not to draw in editors in order to make the substantial updates, the substantial updates must come first.
Certainly if I were WP:OWNing the article, the article would be empty. Because User:Danny93 added the qualifying results, User:Vikirad's been on the ball about updating the entry list over the past few months, and an IP editor added the entire section on regulation changes! Just because I've written the bulk of the race reports in the past does not mean it is something I demand, it's simply been I've been the one of the only people to bother to attempt to write a race report for a 24 hour race. The359 (Talk) 17:49, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And I'm certainly not the only person opposing this bold move to change the criteria for ITN, so your hidden motives claim holds no water. The359 (Talk) 17:50, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
When was the last time you actualy contributed to an ITN/C discussion? Or to any of the many 'what is ITN for' type discussions on the talk page? On what basis do you claim to have a clue what ITN is for, beyond repeating the 1st line of the page to me as if I'm some kind of twat, who had somehow missed it all this time, even though I am ITN regular myself? Unbelievable. I know what its for and I know what the specific reqirements are. You most certainly don't. Yes, you're goddam right that one accurate and well referenced sentence is enough of an update, certainly to kick off the discussion of the nomination at ITN. It's the sort of 'piss poor' writing that ensures people reading an article on a current event get the very basic level of information you would expect. And yes, your goddam right that I could quite easily update it to the letter of the update requirement, if I remotely believed that a) you had had a clue that that was what the requirement was before you opposed for not being 'complete', and b) you would acknowledge that it was 'sufficiently updated' per the requirements if I did. The thing that makes your position so ludicrous, is that as an ITN/R item, the only thing needed for it to go on the Main Page, even if waiting until the finish, is for someone to add 5 sentences and 3 refs to give the name of the winner, and then it will go up, whether you like it or not, whether is has a nice long race summary and is complete with all other sections, or not. You're showing your complete ignorance of how ITN works if you remotely think that's not the case. The only 'bold' move I was going for here is to see if people might understand the basic point that the current 'event' that we are informing readers of here is the whole 24 hours, not the finish. That reflects the coverage and reality. It seems it was a reach too far with all these ludicrous claims that it would lead to the sky falling in if we actualy bothered to start catering for readers in a timely and relevant manner, rather than what will probably happen now, where the final result probably won't even make it up, as the only reason I would be updating it myself to the letter of the law now after the race, is to piss you off, and fuck your weekend up in the way you've fucked mine. MickMacNee (talk) 18:47, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If you think I need to have previous experience in ITN/C discussions in order to have an understanding of ITN or to have opinions for ITN/C discussions, then it seems you have quite a problem here. I mean hell, you admit that you aren't actually meeting the requirements and are intentionally witholding information that might meet that requirement. Again, no one has said "complete", ever. Only you did.
Since the race is already nearly a quarter over and it'd be silly to post "Le Mans has started!" now, I'll just put it the way you seemed to want to put it: Accept it. I suggest having a look over WP:CIVIL before you continue with further discussions on ITN/C. The359 (Talk) 18:55, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So you'd turn up to Rfa and support someone because you think they'd use their tools to help you in content disputes? You'd turn up to Afd and say keep because you put a lot of effort into the article? No, of course you wouldn't, because whether you like it or not, just like Rfa/Afd, you need to have a clue what ITN is for before you can start acting like your opinions carry any weight. And yes, for the third time, you are damn right that I am refusing to make the necessary update to this article, per the exact letter of the rules, for the resons I have stated at length. If you want to start lecturing people on civility, don't start acting as if me saying that counts against my point and somehow helps yours when any sensible reading of this shows the complete opposite, and don't start lying about what you have and haven't said - "The article completely lacks any discussion of the race weekend, no test day coverage, no practice, no qualifying coverage except for some tables. In fact there's very little prose in the article at all. This is not what passes for ITN quality" - it's pretty clear from that that you expected the article to be pretty much complete, and is about as far as you can get from what is actually considered an ITN update. MickMacNee (talk) 19:18, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There's a great deal of difference between complaining that an article isn't "complete" and complaining that it lacks a multitude of basic information.
And yes, you're being quite uncivil and you need to stop. This policy isn't optional, no matter how angry you are. —David Levy 19:53, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The only 'bold' move I was going for here is to see if people might understand the basic point that the current 'event' that we are informing readers of here is the whole 24 hours, not the finish.
This is true of any sporting event (irrespective of the duration), but we customarily wait until the winner is determined (with few exceptions, on which I've elaborated below). You keep citing the fact that this race lasts 24 hours, but you've yet to explain how this constitutes a material difference. —David Levy 19:53, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, per much of what's already been written above. The section is not a news ticker or entertainment guide. Its purpose is to link to encyclopedia articles that have been newly created or substantially updated to reflect recent/current events of sufficient note.
    While some ongoing occurrences are sufficiently noteworthy, we include few sporting events in this category (with those along the lines of the Olympics and FIFA World Cup — for which the opening ceremonies are notable in and of themselves — as the rare exceptions). An event's duration isn't the material distinction, so simply being long doesn't somehow qualify one for special treatment at ITN. —David Levy 16:34, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, your either arguing that it's not a current event, that it's not been updated as one, or that it's not of sufficient note. All of which are wrong. You surely cannot be meaning to insult me by suggesting that through this nomination I think ITN is supposed to be a news ticker, when I've said the exact opposite many times already in this exact section, and a million times before. MickMacNee (talk) 16:49, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    You seem to be taking this way too personal. Levy's opinion seems to be quite clear to me - 2011 24 Hours of Le Mans has not been sufficiently updated and therefore does not qualify for ITN. How this could be "wrong" is beyond me. The359 (Talk) 16:59, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, he's said a lot more than that, but he can speak for himself, or not as the case maybe. On the issue of the update, as I said above, if people want to take the piss, I can easily go and add the necessary 2 sentences & 1 ref to technically be 'sufficiently updated' for ITN, but I am not going to be fucked around doing it when this is isn't the actual reason for opposing. MickMacNee (talk) 17:31, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Further, I don't believe that the article can be updated to the section's standards until the race's conclusion. For almost all sporting events, we wait until the winner is known. Mick cites this race's 24-hour duration as a distinction, but I don't see the relevance. —David Levy 18:19, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    1. As I went on to note in great detail (even citing exceptions and explaining what sets them apart), I'm arguing that most sporting events aren't worthy of note in ITN until the winner is determined. This is not merely my personal opinion; it's how the section routinely operates.
    You contend that this race is materially different because it lasts 24 hours, and I disagree that this is relevant to the matter at hand.
    2. No, I don't seek to insult you, so I worded my message carefully (and avoided mentioning you by name) in the hope that you wouldn't take my comments personally.
    I realize that you don't believe that such an item's inclusion would constitute treating the section as a news ticker, but I disagree; it would serve primarily to report the event's commencement/schedule, which you cited as a benefit ("In addition, they've been playing around with the traditional start time in the last few years, so posting the start/finish time will be useful for casual fans of the race, aswell as complete newcomers."). This is why I noted that the section "is not a news ticker or entertainment guide."
    3. I also realize that you want the section to function as a means of attracting users to articles to perform edits. This, however, is not (and has never been) its primary purpose. It's entirely reasonable to propose that this become the section's primary purpose, but you instead claim that it already is. You then indignantly deride and ascribe bad-faith motives to those who dare to express disagreement, invariably citing an outcome contradicting your preference as evidence that the section (or Wikipedia itself) is broken. Frankly, this has grown quite tiresome. —David Levy 18:19, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    The fact you seem to think someone couldn't even make a 5 sentence / 3 reference updatee to this article even now, just a few hours in, only shows your ignorance of the actual event, or what drives reader/press interest in it. We are here to showcase sufficiently updated articles on current events, not to report news events. The race is a current event, the winner being announced is a news event. Your citing of the Wolrd Cup only showed that ITN does post items when they start but when there's nothing to say but 'it started'. As for your idea that ITN doesn't exist to attract editors, you are completely and utterly wrong. This comes up as one of the main benefits whenever its discussed in the round. You're frankly putting me in the ludcrous situation of only wanting to update this article to meet the requirements just to piss you off. And I'm not going to give you the satisfaction frankly. It can rot for all I care. I know the event is on, I know where the article is, and I know when it finishes. Once it's finished, that's my interest over. Interested readers can fend for themselves, certainly if the inevitable happens and it doesn't make it up even after the finish. MickMacNee (talk) 19:07, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Please don't put words in my mouth. I'm quite confident that a great deal of updating could occur right now, and I didn't claim otherwise. I plainly stated that we don't customarily post items for most sporting events until the winners are determined (and I regard this as appropriate). By ITN's standards, an update containing that information (and meeting the other basic criteria) is what's considered "sufficient" for this type of event/article.
    2. As I noted, when the FIFA World Cup and Olympics begin, the opening ceremonies are noteworthy in and of themselves. This is not true of most sporting events, and I see no material distinction here.
    I also haven't claimed that attracting editors to articles isn't a benefit (which applies to every dynamic main page section). I was careful to state that this isn't the section's primary purpose.
    4. I'm baffled as to why you believe that updating the article would "piss me off," and I'm disheartened by the extent to which you're openly motivated by spite. —David Levy 19:53, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm no longer interested tbh, especially as you are trying to contradict and reinterpret your own words with each new post. You clearly know nothing about the event, you clearly don't want to know anything about it, and you are freely inventing rules that supposedly exist for ITN, when in actual fact, it barely has any. MickMacNee (talk) 20:06, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Okay, bye! —David Levy 20:23, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • SupportOppose Excellent idea Mick. For those who aren't familiar with it, this is one of those sporting events where "the event" is as, if not more so, important as the final winner. As another poster has pointed out, we'd note the Olympic starting ceremony. This is even more significant - not merely a ceremony, but a 24 hour event that many people do follow in its hour-by-hour entirety.
    It's started, we blew it. Hopefully get it right next year. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:09, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    If you can explain the material difference between this race and most other sport championships (formatted either as a single match/game or as a series/tournament), I'll gladly reconsider my position. I mean that sincerely.
    I have little interest in sports in general, but I'm certain that it's common for their fans to follow championship events all the way through, hour-by-hour, with substantial interest in far more than the final outcome. What, other than the long, uninterrupted duration, sets this event apart? —David Levy 20:23, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    That is the point and the material difference. That's what sets it apart. It's a race that runs for 24 hours. That may or may not draw your interest but it is very distinctive. RxS (talk) 23:17, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I understand the difference, but I don't see how it's material to the matter at hand.
    Yes, compared to other races, this one's duration is highly unusual. Why does that mean that we should post an ITN blurb before it's been run? —David Levy 23:32, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Because the format of the race is unique enough that readers will be interested in it regardless of the result. That's the only reason this makes sense. Given that, there's less sense in waiting until it's finished to post it. Posting it once a winner has been decided treats ITN like a news service which it isn't. ITN is here to provide information on a current event that people will be looking for...which is now, not after it's finished. RxS (talk) 23:47, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I disagree. A news service strives for expedience, which is exactly what's been advocated in this instance. While we pride ourselves on our ability to provide up-to-date coverage of topics, we don't rush to post ITN items before key details are known. When it comes to sport competitions, this usually means waiting until the winners have been determined.
    You note that "readers will be interested in [this race] regardless of the result," but that's true of other sporting (and non-sporting) events as well. It's reasonable to propose that we broaden the section's scope to include advance notifications of interesting stuff and point readers to the relevant articles, but to quote Kevin McE:
    "This is a radical departure from convention, and introduces a whole new approach to ongoing events. That is not necessarily a bad thing, it should be properly discussed as a matter of policy, not introduced ad hoc."
    —David Levy 01:01, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Key details usually include winners yes, but this is a different deal. Readers are more interested in this race's format, more so than other sporting events. To a point where it makes sense to make an exception. Why do we have to make up more rules to allow single case events like this? RxS (talk) 01:46, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Knowing the actual event and things like how it differs from tennis etc, and knowing both the policy and practice of ITN as I do, and with the benefit of coverage on television and on the web right though the race, then under the current ITN rules, even accounting for David's extra rules for sports which never used to be official rules until today, this actual 'event' can be posted in a matter of seconds after the winner crosses the finishing line. Seconds. That's pretty expedient I'd say. It would certainly beat most actual news agencies final race reports to the deadline, but then again, they're the fools who include things in their news reports like the crash that happened in the first hour and other major details of the race, even though they already reported it at the time as well. You certainly wouldn't find encyclopoedias doing that in articles about the race, oh no. Oops. Certainly not while it was ongoing. Oops. Blasphemy. That's if anyone gave a shit about editting the article with that goal in mind. I certainly don't anymore, and I don't know why anyone else would either. But still, it needs to be said, just so people are absolutely clear what they've been opposing here, and just so people are absolutely sure about how ITN works right now and what could have happened, even before we have this mythical discussion about the meta-meaning of the concept of being 'current' that this nomination would have supposedly seen current policy (policy, at ITN? hah) shaken to the core, leading no doubt to a resolution from the Foundation themselves. MickMacNee (talk) 01:51, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I want to note that Andy posted a thoughtful, detailed response on my talk page. While I haven't changed my mind, I don't want it to appear that my above request went unanswered. —David Levy 23:32, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • For christ sake, can someone just post it now? This is an ITNR event, whining that it should be posted later rather than earlier is really piss poor. I thought we'd seen the back of such nonsense. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:08, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Whining? Because some of us wish to treat this as we do almost every other sporting event that receives an ITN item?
    I'm more than a bit stunned by your decision to collapse some of the opposition/legitimate discussion. I don't appreciate having my good-faith input labeled "unproductive drama." Please don't do that again. —David Levy 22:40, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I really honestly do think its whining. The article was well and truly updated over 12 hours ago and its an ITNR event so you guys know its going to go up anyway. I honestly cannot fathom why you guys thought this was worth arguing about. Its not as if 24 hours is such a huge time period that having it up for the whole race is going to make a huge difference.
    The only possible "downside" to this is that we post stuff more promptly, which cannot possibly be a bad thing if the content is there, as it was in this case. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 00:18, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Some of us disagree with your position (and have explained our reasoning). I could accuse your side of "whining" about having to wait a day, but that would be unfair and disrespectful. This is an honest difference of opinion, and there's no need to make it personal. That's "unproductive drama." —David Levy 01:01, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    The right thing to do if you weren't sure about posting events early in general would have been to let it happen this time, and if you were still unhappy to raise a general discussion afterwards, which we would all have the time to think about it and discuss it more calmly. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 00:42, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    You could apply that logic to any ITN/R event (e.g. if someone proposed posting an advance blurb for the Super Bowl). I realize that some are of the opinion that a relevant distinction exists, but I'm not.
    Regarding having "the time to think about it and discuss it more calmly," this easily could have been proposed well before the day of the race. —David Levy 01:01, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Have no interest in this race, and wasn't going to interfere with discussion, but I thought I'd see what all the fuss was. For those wanting this posted before the race, the Tour de France starts soon, and runs for several hours a day for three weeks. I am personally far more interested in it than this car race. Can I ask that it be posted before the start, to get readers attention, and that it stays in ITN for the whole three weeks? (Please note that I am being ironic, and don't expect this to happen. I am simply highlighting the silliness of demands to post the car race before it starts.) HiLo48 (talk) 23:04, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Ask away, I'd support it. Not for 3 weeks though, that's not part of this issue. RxS (talk) 23:20, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Ironic or not, it's just one more example of a sport that's got nothing in common with the Le Mans 24 hours, except for just being a sport. Whoop de doo frankly. It's the argument to kill all arguments. Not. The day some lycra wearing steroid abuser rides a bike for 24 hours continuously is the day I will give a toss about posting that 'event' having started on ITN as something readers might be interested in reading while its ongoing, rather than waiting the mandatory 3 or more hours after the final result is known, for it to be posted on ITN as an article relating to a current event. MickMacNee (talk) 23:42, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Like this? Look forward to your support (assuming you can avoid unsourced and prejudiced accusations) for posting the next attempt at breaking this when it starts. Kevin McE (talk) 00:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Glad to see you found something usefull to do with your time. Given the choice of defending your point above, or of starting this ground breaking discussion about redefining the word 'current' to mean 'current' for ITN we supposedly now need to have, or even updating the actual Le Mans article in place of those editors you've royally discouraged from ever touching again, so that it's ready in time for when it can theoretically get posted as the not news news, the very second the race actually finishes, you chose to go searching Cycling News to find the report of some nutter actually cycling for 24 hours, a news item that you know full well would never get posted not only at its start, but also at its finish, even if you did nominate it, because it's total trivial shite. I would have a good laugh opposing it though, on the super serious grounds we've never discussed the ramifications of whether we would have to post when the guy gets into the bath of beans, as well as when he gets out. MickMacNee (talk) 01:33, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The most discouraging thing about this debate is that people are ignoring the explicit big picture purpose of ITN. They root around and when they find a clause in some rule somewhere they beat nominations like this to death with it. It's like posting nominations cost them money or a puppy gets kicked somewhere. I can't imagine why it's better to have the same stale content linger than it is to have a good churn of topics people are interested in. RxS (talk) 00:39, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I assure you that I've based my opposition upon my sincere understanding of the section's purpose, not on ruleslawyering. You're welcome to disagree. I don't even mind if you tell me that I'm flat-out wrong. But please don't assume that I (or others) harbor perverse motives. —David Levy 01:01, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    The first bullet point on the purpose section at ITN is To help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news. How does this not fit in? How does adding a oddly formatted car race as it starting not serve our readers interest in a current event? RxS (talk) 01:50, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

June 10

June 10, 2011 (2011-06-10) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

Ex-Irish finance minister dies

Article: Brian Lenihan, Jnr (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Brian Lenihan, Ireland's finance minister at the time of the Irish financial bailout by the EU/IMF, dies at the age of 52. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Quite an important figure in Ireland's financial crisis, and although he was no longer in office at his death he remained his party's finance spokesman so still held an important role. I think this meets the death criteria and is worth posting. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 12:41, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - not all politicians deaths are worth posting even if he was an important figure for Ireland. - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 18:14, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 18:18, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I would think it quite rare that we would post the death of a former Cabinet-level official of a country of Ireland's size. I appreciate the argument that Lenihan's case is different, but in my view, not different enough. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:06, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I think it meets the death criteria, particularly 1 and 2. I agree that it is quite rare that a cabinet minister level person would be posted but this is an exceptional enough circumstance. It might be compared to the death of a Japanese finance minister previously posted on ITN. He has died at a very young age and is four years younger than that example. Not every cabinet minister level person receives international attention when alive and then when they die as well. The New York Times - "Led the nation's effort to fend off bankruptcy during the worldwide economic collapse". The Daily Telegraph - "Presided over the total collapse of the Irish banking system in 2008, which led to the fall of the government two years later". And Al Jazeera as well. "One of the toughest jobs in Europe ... delivered four austerity budgets in his less than three years in the job ... bailed out the country's two biggest lenders, nationalised the third and took charge of the two biggest building societies". Thousands of people are signing books of condolence and the funeral is expected to be large. The international sources I've used above (from three different continents) show that he was an important figure at a continental level as he was one of the main politicians involved in the bailouts by the European Union and International Monetary Fund after the late-2000s financial crisis, all of which still receives a lot of attention today. --candle•wicke 15:41, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It should now meet the minimum requirements. The article itself must be a B or at least a C and currently has more than 100 references. --candle•wicke 18:17, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bahrain Grand Prix cancelled

Article: 2011 Bahrain Grand Prix (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 2011 Bahrain Grand Prix is cancelled after Formula One teams complain about competing in a country racked by months of popular uprisings against its regime. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, BBC
Support As the Nom. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 09:01, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The article looks ready, however I would prefer a shorter blurb. --BorgQueen (talk) 09:09, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Any Suggestion? -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 09:23, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Although it is part of a notable series, the Bahrain GP itself is not noteworthy at ITN, so it is not necessarily the case that its cancellation is ITNworthy. The event has only been held seven times: it is not an historic tradition. Given the current leaders' margins in the drivers' and constructors' tables, the loss of one race is likely to be irrelevant in determining the outcome of the series. The event was pulled from the schedule months ago (without, AFAIR, ITN announcement): all that has happened now is that that postponement has been changed to a cancellation. Kevin McE (talk) 09:44, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - per above. EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 09:56, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, so what? Big deal. Agree with Kevin McE: nothing new here per se, something that's been expected for a few months being confirmed is not news. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 10:06, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Even tho the Bahrain GP itself is not noteworthy, The cancellation and the reason behind is tho. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 11:41, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No, it isn't. This was always on the cards, it being official isn't news. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 12:41, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Respectfully, that's the antithesis of most other arguments that appear on this page, in that we generally don't note news "on the cards", we note it once it's official. The fact that the unrest there has not subsided, and has this international implication confirmed today, is the sort of thing we often use to update an ongoing event. Abrazame (talk) 01:54, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Kevin McE's reasons are convincing. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:08, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I think editors here are focusing on the narrow aspect of the impact on the racers' overall event scores, when the real story is that safety concerns arising from the country's sociopolitical unrest have led it to lose a major international event that brings tourism, revenue and positive attention. This isn't sports news, it's news news. When was the last time we noted the unrest in Bahrain is still ongoing, with ongoing repercussions, despite Saudi Arabia's actions intended to tamp it down? I took the liberty of editing the blurb for length, per BorgQueen's comment, but welcome any revert or other rework. Abrazame (talk) 01:54, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If there is a desire to propose an update on the current situation in Bahrain, then that, or the re-introduction of the Arab Spring sticky, needs to be proposed. The cancellation of a sports event at the end of October, even if ultimately caused by events in early June, is not a comment on the situation in June. Kevin McE (talk) 10:30, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support with the blurb "2011 Bahrain Grand Prix is cancelled after months of popular uprisings." μηδείς (talk) 02:11, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That is incorrect, it was not cancelled because of the uprising. The original postponement was because of the uprising but the cancellation is purely procedural on the teams' part, at least officially. Oppose such a blurb. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 02:28, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that Medeis' blurb is too vague, leading one to guess that it was cancelled by Bahrain themselves. The point is that when legitimate popular uprisings don't result in meaningful concessions but rather in military strikes against your own people—and from foreign countries, to boot—free people from around the world don't want to go to your country to engage in sport. The cancellation, then, is pretty much as the blurb read, isn't it, that the teams did not wish to go? I mean, that is the lead sentence in the article cited. Abrazame (talk) 03:16, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I frankly think we should post things early as that's generally when they are "in the news" and not be too obsessed about waiting for confirmation. On this item I think I have to oppose as not really being big enough to cover now. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:58, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The view stats support this notion that it's not big enough now, as only 400 people cared to look at the article. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 13:28, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So let me get this straight: we should refrain from promoting the larger story as news because people haven't already flocked to the smaller story? Are article hits part of our policy on consideration? And if so, what's up with that? As I've said, and perhaps other editors who agree could help recasting this to support the thesis, the point here is not about the race, it's about the deleterious effect on that country as a result of its political unrest and the military response to that. Were I to have seen this posted at ItN, I would have clicked on the article to find out more about the unrest before or instead of the article to find out more about the race. Abrazame (talk) 01:35, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 E. coli O104:H4 outbreak

Article: 2011 E. coli O104:H4 outbreak (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The E. coli outbreak in Northern Germany that has sickened over 3000 and killed over 30, mostly in Germany, is attributed by German authorities to raw sprouts produced at a farm in near Hamburg (Post)
News source(s): [55]
Credits:

Nominator's comments: We covered the break-out In The News; we should wrap it up too. It does not seem too likely that more conclusive evidence will appear, so I think this is the right time. Nø (talk) 11:55, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mtking (talk) 02:21, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now, wait for more development in the case and a clear confirmation of the source. --Kslotte (talk) 06:09, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment from nominator: The article may not be perfectly clear on this, but what appears from news sources is that German authorities do not expect to find conclusive evidence, but based on what they have conclude that the sprouts are the source.--Nø (talk) 08:41, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: we deal with the news of what happens, not the analysis of how/why it happened. However, should this gain approval, can I point out for the blurb that the produce of farms is generally raw food, so that qualifier seems redundant, and that at least in UK English, sprouts, without a qualifier, is usually assumed to mean Brussels sprouts. The food in question was bean sprout. Kevin McE (talk) 10:12, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, as this is a major outbreak Europe is witnessing, and the findings provide the origin of the outbreak. The findings are now confirmed by Robert Koch Institute, and should definitely warn the people. Sibi_antony (talk) 20:25, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Then the article needs updating. It still says "likely cause" in the lead. HiLo48 (talk) 00:03, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 9

June 9, 2011 (2011-06-09) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science

Sport

Flooding in China

Not tried nominating a topic before hope I've got this right

Article: 2011 China Floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Death toll of flooding in China reaches 87, thousands of people evacuated (Post)
News source(s): http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2011-06/09/c_13919421.htm
Credits:

Nominator's comments: flooding seems pretty major not to be listed under ongoing disasters

fresh wave of flooding reported today so another 33 deaths I've changed 54 to 87 in the itn canditate bit above EdwardLane (talk) 08:07, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] E3 again

Article: Electronic Entertainment Expo 2011 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Video Gaming Expo E3 2011 closes (Post)
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Oppose Wikipedia doesn't have to be all about things that only interest vocal cliques of wikipedians. That it is pre-approved is proof it is part of the problem. μηδείς (talk) 02:17, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That isn't a strong argument, considering that video games are a very large "clique", and a new article is 17 hours overdue. If you know of any more major news in the last 36 hours, feel free to nom it. This is impacting news for a large part, if not a majority of wikipedians. Removing a topic from ITNR simply on the grounds that one person is uninterested is a problem. Mamyles (talk) 02:37, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I would hardly consider video game fans to be a 'clique'. This isn't a RPG convention we're talking about here.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:16, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is the update here good enough? One thing, the article will be more substantial when the Game Critics Awards, awards to games presented at E3, are announced on June 21.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:13, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, posting. --BorgQueen (talk) 05:39, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yikes, I'm not sure I agree with the 'next generation' portion of the blurb. I know I wrote that in the update, but that was a quote from one newspaper; I'm not sure it's established that Wii U is an 8th generation console. I'm trying to think of a blurb besides 'E3 closes'...--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:57, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, the BBC also refers to Wii U as a 'next generation' console. I'll add that source to the update. Sorry, I'd say leave the blurb.--Johnsemlak (talk) 06:01, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, relevant discussion here--Johnsemlak (talk) 06:14, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'd question the use of the phrase "having featured the next generation in console systems". I'd say at most E3 featured one console that could be considererd "next generation" (the WiiU). Unless it featured the PS4 and/or a new Xbox I don't see why "systems" is plural (personally I wouldn't regard PSP Vita as a next-gen console, but I accept that is an opinion). JieBie (talk) 11:11, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's too late to pull now, but there's also serious debate if the Wii U is truly a "next generation" console (since hardware wise it is pretty much catching up to what the PS3 and 360 can do). "Next iteration" would be the proper term here. --MASEM (t) 12:41, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] M F Husain death

Article: M. F. Husain (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Artist M. F. Husain dies in London at the age of 96 (Post)
News source(s): [56]
BTW, this is the first time I'm nominating something here, so if I've erred somewhere, I apologise. Lynch7 09:12, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 8

June 8, 2011 (2011-06-08) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters

International relations

Politics
  • Indian social activist Anna Hazare begins a second hunger strike against corruption. (Al Jazeera)
  • The British government has indicated it is rethinking its controversial proposal to offer 50% sentence cuts to criminals in England and Wales who enter early guilty pleas. (BBC)

Science

[Posted] Periodic table expansion

Article: No article specified
Blurb: ​ IUPAC and IUPAP agree to add elements Ununquadium and Ununhexium to the periodic table. (Post)
News source(s): Scientific American, MSNBC.com

Nom. Epitome of encyclopedic relevance. --bender235 (talk) 09:03, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not only is this a minority topic, it's on ITNR (Wikipedia:ITNR#Science). Therefore, there is no substantial discussion required here unless a user is opposing. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 11:35, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree that it is either. This is a science story - the closest minority topic category would be technology but in my view it doesn't fit in there. Similarly ITNR is very specific - this is not the initial discovery (that was a decade ago in both cases) nor have they been officially named - Ununquadium and Ununhexium are provisional systematic placeholders rather than final names for the elements. As such it is easy to overstate the significance of this - essentially all that has happened is that prior discoveries have passed the IUPAC vetting process. Crispmuncher (talk) 13:28, 8 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
Support. But I would reword the blurb to the more precise
"An IUPAC committee acknowledges the discovery of the superheavy chemical elements ununquadium and ununhexium." (Maybe also add "by Russian scientists in 1999/2000"?)--Roentgenium111 (talk) 13:12, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support as relevant. Mamyles (talk) 14:29, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 Syrian uprising/Jisr ash-Shugur massacre

Article: 2011 Syrian uprising (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Great Britain, Portugal, and France call for UN sanctions against Syria, amid the killing of 120 security personnel in Jisr ash-Shugur. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Al-Jazeera
  • Nom. The article isn't sufficiently updated as yet, but this event is definitely noteworthy. --bender235 (talk) 07:37, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I suggest an alternative blurb as below, as I've updated the Jisr ash-Shugur article with coverage of this incident. We need to be careful about how this is reported, as it's only the (very unreliable) Syrian state-owned media that is reporting a mass killing; reports are unclear, and some of the locals are denying it. Something has clearly happened but it's not clear yet exactly what. Also, Great Britain is not the name of the country! Prioryman (talk) 07:56, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, 120 people are dead. Neither the government nor the opposition denies this. What's in question is whodunit. So it's not an "alleged killing", but a killing.

--bender235 (talk) 08:00, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"'Very unreliable' Syrian state-owned media reports" did not prevent Naksafest 2011 from being posted to ITN. Nutmegger (talk) 15:49, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose either proposed blurb. This conflates two distinct issues - the proposed UN resolution and the killing of security forces. This creates the impression that it is the latter that has directly caused the former. Crispmuncher (talk) 13:35, 8 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
Those events are connected. The Jisr ash-Shugur massacre is the most recent peak of the Syrian uprising, and Syria's violent crackdown is the reason for the ongoing UN sanction initiative. BBC explains this pretty clearly. --bender235 (talk) 14:28, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It is you making that inference. The proposals are to censure the government. Therefore what is the relevance of the alleged acts of the protestors? Crispmuncher (talk) 18:21, 8 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
The notion is that the Syrian army executed 120 fellow soldiers who deserted. That is what happened in Jisr Ash-Shugur according to non-Syrian-government sources. Now the Assad regime started the crackdown. This should now be posted. --bender235 (talk) 09:12, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Notable as the event maybe, the blurb with calls for sanction for the usual lot is not notable. i would conditional support it without that blurb (the calls can go on the page, not the ITN)Lihaas (talk) 22:17, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

World IPv6 Day

Article: World IPv6 Day (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Internet Society organizes World IPv6 Day to evaluate the real world effects of the IPv6 brokenness (Post)
News source(s): PC World, Internet Society
Support, IPv6 is important, and World IPv6 Day has been widely reported in the news. Thue | talk 16:35, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, news-worthy only for geeks. --Kslotte (talk) 16:43, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And everyone else who uses the Internet... Support the IPv6 transition is highly significant. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:54, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
IPv6 won't in anyway change anything in normal internet usage. This is about the internet backbone that is essential for network administrators. --Kslotte (talk) 12:21, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It will actually, there are only 4 billion IPv4 addresses, and given there are 7 billion people on the planet, of whom a substantial portion have computers and smartphones these days that clearly isn't enough for future usage. IPv6 gives some ridiculous number of IP addresses which means that noone is likely to run out any time soon.
One of the current problems is that even if you currently have an IPv6 address you cannot navigate to even websites like Google and Facebook as they only advertise their IPv4 addresses so that people with mis-configured IPv6 addresses don't have issues. World IPv6 day was designed to change that and see what problems there are so that websites can start to be also available over IPv6.
With regards to issues affecting normal users, well for starters you'll have to go out and buy an IPv6 capable router, and if you want to connect to new users and new websites - especially in Asian developing countries, you might be unable to do so in the reasonably near future without an IPv6 capable router/ISP etc. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:37, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You are right about the router thing, but this IPv6 day aren't targeting end-users (at least not yet). --Kslotte (talk) 05:58, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. We had the IPv4 exhaustion story. That should be enough for now. --bender235 (talk) 18:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. As the article's length demonstrates, nothing really happened beyond naming the day. Mamyles (talk) 21:19, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What happened? Was there massive breakage? The article doesn't answer anything, so oppose based on an insufficient update. Titoxd(?!? - cool stuff) 21:21, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 7

June 7, 2011 (2011-06-07) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters

International Relations

Law and crime

Politics

Sport

[Posted] Soyuz TMA-02M launched

Article: Soyuz TMA-02M (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Soyuz TMA-02M spacecraft is launched from the Baikonur Cosmodrome, carrying a three-person crew to the International Space Station. (Post)
News source(s): [57][58], [59].
Credits:

2011 Chişinău explosion

Article: 2011 Chişinău explosion (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): RT.com

- A car explodes in Moldova. Seems to be an attack - EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 10:11, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a reason that "article" isn't even at AFD yet? Not an event worth an article, especially not one written like a news report! Hardly a mention in any major news source. Oppose, no way, and you need to stop nominating every non-event. StrPby (talk) 15:34, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Could you please make your position more clear, StPrby? μηδείς (talk) 02:22, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Julia Donaldson becomes Children's Laureate

Article: Julia Donaldson (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Julia Donaldson, author of The Gruffalo, becomes the new Children's Laureate. (Post)

Julia Donaldson becomes the new Children's Laureate [60]. Either her article or the one for Children's Laureate. Lugnuts (talk) 18:04, 7 June 2011 (UTC) Oppose Less of a story in Britain than the passing of Elisabeth Sladen. μηδείς (talk) 02:23, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 6

June 6, 2011 (2011-06-06) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

[Posted] SecurID compromised

Article: SecurID (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ RSA announces that SecurID was compromised, and starts the replacement of almost all 40 million SecurID tokens. (Post)

The hack occurred some time ago, but the scale of the hack has only just been announced[61]. This is obviously a significant hack, with 40 million tokens potentially compromised; and the tokens potentially give access to big important companies such as Lockheed Martin, not just an account on Sony's gaming service. Thue | talk 07:41, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support when updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:20, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Any other opinions? --BorgQueen (talk) 14:40, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support seems worth posting. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 14:52, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Replacing all 40 million seems like a mammoth task and its a big security issue. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:03, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support as a major security breach affecting companies and users worldwide. -- PopularMax (talk) 17:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above. Articles look ready. Mamyles (talk) 20:12, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posted RxS (talk) 20:58, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Apple Worldwide Developers Conference 2011

Article: Apple Worldwide Developers Conference#WWDC 2011 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Apple's worldwide developer conference opens with a keynote from Steve Jobs. (Post)
I am inclined to oppose; while not in principle objecting to featuring product releases on ITN, the products announced are not that ground-breaking. The main news here seems to be iCloud, but for example Google have already been making cloud services available for a long time. And Apple is just not important enough to feature their developer conference ITN. Thue | talk 20:52, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
For interest's sake what recent product releases would you suggest to be worthy of posting? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:54, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am also puzzled on this, how do you recognize a "revolutionary" product on the release date? Would we have posted iPad or iPod on their respective release dates? Crnorizec (talk) 21:23, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't believe we've ever posted product news. Once you list one, people are bound to ask for others to be listed. It might also be seen as a type of endorsement. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 22:25, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Windows 7 was posted. It doesn't seem reasonable to never post product news, if the blurb is neutral, as this one is. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:27, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
windows 7 was posted because windows users are in billions... there is a massive difference between that and a keynote speech for new service. -- Ashish-g55 11:02, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I would have supported fx gmail, the Tata Nano and the OLPC XO-1. Thue | talk 07:01, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Normally I'd be on the fence but this is sort of a perfect storm. The three product updates/product releases make it notable. In a year, iCloud may have the same impact that iTunes had. I realize that were not a crystal ball but this is a new product in a space that's going to be big whoever gets it right. And, it's going to draw plenty of reader interest. RxS (talk) 03:51, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Only the announcements of the new software versions, in what was nothing more than a media release. Wait until the software actually ships to consumers then re-evaluate. Mtking (talk) 03:58, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional Support if the blurb focuses on iCloud rather than on WWDC. Crnorizec (talk) 20:58, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. A company annoucing its new products. How is that of encyclopedic relevance? --bender235 (talk) 06:53, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If it wasn't encyclopaedic why do we have an article on all these things? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:18, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose No, because we don't post worldwide conferences, but I hardly believe that this one is worth posting. And if this year is special because of iCloud, we cannot predict the penetration of the product across the world market.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:10, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose If we're covering product showcases, then E3 makes a lot more sense than some Apple dev conference. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 16:30, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

E3 2011

Article: E3 2011 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Gaming expo E3 opens (Post)
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

E3 starts tomorrow, but there are keynotes announcing new games today. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:22, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Ready] Portuguese legislative election, 2011

Article: Portuguese legislative election, 2011 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Portugal, the Social Democratic Party, led by Pedro Passos Coelho, win a plurality in an election. (Post)
News source(s): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13658998
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Ok, the result table is there, now we just need a couple of sentences of prose about reaction etc and then this will be ready to post. --Tone 11:28, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
IMPORTANT: The PSD didn't actually win as they were 11 seats short of a majority. The blurb should reflect that. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 15:59, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, at least when compared with the current top news (Nikola Gruevski, Prime Minister of the Republic of Macedonia, retains his position for a third consecutive term in office). An important political change in this EU member country. Zdtrlik (talk) 18:19, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Zdtrlik, your comment is very inappropriate. Maybe I care for Portugal and EU and your bailout (=spending other people's money senselessly) even less, but Wikipedia is a community where we all have the chance to make the top news. Crnorizec (talk) 21:06, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The proper expression is to win plurality = highest number of seats/percentage. Still, there is a prose update missing, 3 sentences, anyone? --Tone 07:59, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And i want CREDIT! admins seem to forget the ITN norms!Lihaas (talk) 18:30, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Eh? The anons did the dirty work on this one. At least says the 1st page of the history tab... –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 18:40, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Dirty work? did you see the edit??? they onyl added the polls. ALL the prose ont he page was without anyone else's help, than you very much,Lihaas (talk) 22:19, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Someone here doesn't understand what the ITN is for... which is updates. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 03:06, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Someone here doesn't understand" -- see the IRN rtag for credit. its for yhe pageLihaas (talk) 23:15, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't appear to be much of an update, at least as it comes to final results. There's plenty of tables but not much prose. RxS (talk) 03:27, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
ITNR should be posted already as its updated. Though NOT okay to mention the debt crisis, we didnt do it for finland.Lihaas (talk) 22:19, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There is still no update. As of my June 7th edit and now, according to the edit difference there is no significant prose update. Whoever does the updates receives the oh-so-precious-ITN-notice-"award". 03:16, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
The article has plenty of prose update context. what do you seek for results prose?Lihaas (talk) 23:15, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2004 Bowl Championship Series championship vacated

Article: 2004 USC Trojans football team (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Bowl Championship Series vacates the University of Southern California of their 2004 championship (Post)
News source(s): http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2011/06/its-official-bcs-strips-usc-of-2004-football-title.html
College football isn't but Korean university students going on strike for a day for reduced tuition is? 98.88.21.183 (talk) 06:02, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 5

June 5, 2011 (2011-06-05) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

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Sport

[Posted] Macedonian parliamentary election, 2011

Article: Macedonian parliamentary election, 2011 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Nikola Gruevski, Prime Minister of the Republic of Macedonia retains his position for a third consecutive term in office. (Post)
Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

[Posted] Golan Heights unrest

Article: 2011 Israeli border demonstrations (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Unarmed protestors are shot at in border protests between Syria and Israel (Post)
Article updated
Source for story.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:10, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Source for story.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:10, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nutmegger dont compare appels and oranges.--BabbaQ (talk) 13:43, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Which one is the 'appel'? Nutmegger (talk) 14:23, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The Arab Spring has been extensively covered on ITN, and while not every specific incident is covered most of them have been covered extensively. Obviously here there needs to be an update before it can be posted. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:19, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have now updated the Arab spring article with this latest unrest, as it has a connection with the Syrian unrest.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:29, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That article has a POV header, and I doubt that can be resolved quickly. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:36, 6 June 2011 (UTC) Well that didn't appear to be the case. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:39, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
We direct it straight to the section in question. Easy.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:37, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Also added the information to the 2011 Syrian uprising article. Pick one:).--BabbaQ (talk) 17:41, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • 1. the Syrian protests and related violence was reported several times. Once a revolution is ongoing, each incident is to be taken in the context of the entire movement. This is not to say the incident(s) Nutmegger refers to is/are automatically insignificant - I was not a party to the discussions regarding that news story and if it was important, it should have been posted.
2. Notwithstanding the unfortunate spelling, as BabbaQ rightly pointed out - the two instances are vastly different. This was not a protest against the Syrian government, this was a separate protest to mark the anniversary of the 1967 Six-Day War (according to news reports).
3. Another difference is that this involves regular forces of one country killing people from another. Any such incident is in my opinion noteworthy (other than a stray incident involving very minor casualties and ignored by the respective countries and the international news). Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 17:33, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
But I will have to disagree with BabbaQ's position that this is directly related to the ongoing anti-government protests. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 17:37, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have to agree. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:40, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I disagree if the Syrian regime is allowing protesters near the Golan heights which they never do in toher cases, then they are using it to divert attention from the ongoing conflict inside Syria. And using the old "its the zionists fault" escape.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The new 2011 Israeli border demonstrations would be good for the ITN.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:47, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) I've created 2011 Israeli border demonstrations, currently its a copy-paste from the relevant section of 2011 Nakba Day so its going to need cleanup. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:49, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with title of article is that it directly states that these protests took place at "Israel's" "border" which is a huge issue - the protesters and much of the international community does not recognize Golan Heights as part of Israel, so there is no "Israeli border" to speak of when it comes to what happened last weekend. Such a significant NPOV violation in an article's title warrants NOT linking to this article in ITN. Nutmegger (talk) 20:37, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Are you going to try and come up with excuses for not posting anything that might be critical of Israel? The line of actual control seems like a perfectly reasonable neutral line to call the border. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:40, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
After looking at your article, it seems that the POV in the title is balanced by an opening-paragraph reference to the Syrian claim of 20 dead in Naksa Day demonstrations without any reference to Israeli-sourced statements of a smaller death toll and an Israeli claim that some of the deaths cited by Syrian TV cannot be attributed to Israeli fire. Thus, I remove my objection to this article being linked to but not my overall objection to this news event being on ITN, as more fully explained above. Nutmegger (talk) 22:36, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Ready] Peruvian general election

Articles: Ollanta Humala (talk · history · tag) and Peruvian general election, 2011 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Nationalist Ollanta Humala is elected President of Peru. (Post)
Credits:

Both articles need updating
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 Diego Grez (talk) 22:19, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently Ollanta Humala won the elections, however, if Fujimori did, it wouldn't be a big deal to change the blurb. Viva Chile, stupid Peruvians! :P Diego Grez (talk) 22:19, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is ITNR, ill get to a prose update ion 24..Lihaas (talk) 18:35, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Prose looks fine now. Articles are ready. Mamyles (talk) 21:22, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 4

June 4, 2011 (2011-06-04) (Saturday)
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[Posted] Puyehue volcano erupts

Article: 2011 Puyehue eruption (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 3500 people are evacuated, as the Chilean Puyehue volcano erupts. (Post)
Credits:

Article updated

The volcano began eruption process, various hundreds of people have been evacuated. The volcano had caused massive destruction in its previous major eruption in 1960, following the 1960 Valdivia earthquake. Diego Grez (talk) 21:33, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually 3500 have been evacuated, the number is likely to increase. Ashes have reached Bariloche, Argentina. Diego Grez (talk) 21:36, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Now being reported in several international media [62] [63] [64] Diego Grez (talk) 23:46, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Wide impact over multiple countries; in the news worldwide. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 02:01, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Given its history and potential impact, this is significant. Mamyles (talk) 03:52, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support when the article has a more substantial update.--Johnsemlak (talk) 05:14, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment the article doesn't look updated enough. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:06, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The article looks updated enough to me. Diego Grez (talk) 14:55, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, marking [Ready]. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 14:57, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Posted, using a slightly modified blurb (per some convention, we don't start blurbs with a number). --Tone 15:27, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, just noticed I missed to write where the volcano is. That's fixed now, thank you David. --Tone 16:59, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] 2011 French Open

Article: 2011_French_Open#Women.27s_singles (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Li Na defeats Francesca Schiavone to win the 2011 French Open title in women's singles and becomes the first Asian citizen to win a Grand Slam. (Post)
Credits:

Article needs updating
Combined blurb would be something like In tennis, Li Na/Francesca Schiavone wins the women's singles and Roger Federer/Rafael Nadal wins the men's singles at the 2011 French Open. if both draw articles are updated; or simply bold 2011 French Open as the single bolded link otherwise. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 14:55, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Precedent is to update and bump the blurb. Courcelles 15:19, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and prefer posting of the women's tournament immediately. In the previous years we used to post first the women's winner, and after the men's final concludes only to update the blurb with the men's winner. In addition one day delay is too much in sports. The news is breaking today and will be shadowed with the men's final tomorrow.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:08, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Can we please include the fact that Li is the first Asian to win a Grand Slam singles title? It's a historic moment. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 15:26, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. It's also very important, but indeed Michael Chang is the first Asian to win a Grand Slam, though representing the United States. I'll better go with "the first person representing Asian country".--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:38, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Additionally Yevgeny Kafelnikov is from Sochi which in several sources is in Asia, so "Asian female" would be more accurate. 2.216.140.105 (talk) 16:09, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
He's not even remotely Asian. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 16:12, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
By the mean of Asian people, probably more accurate to say is "Asiatic people" which refers to the people dwelling the remote parts of the continent.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:21, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sochi is west of the Urals and north of the Caucasus to call that w/in Asia is like saying Italy is in the Middle East. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 19:09, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Ilyas Kashmiri

Article: Ilyas Kashmiri (militant) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Senior Al-Qaeda operative Ilyas Kashmiri is killed in a U.S. drone strike in Pakistan. (Post)
News source(s): reuters.com abc.net.au thenews.com
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: I might be able to update this if necessary fter I finish updateing another ITN candidate. Marcus Qwertyus 12:51, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support: Making news everywhere; THE top news in South Asia. Major terrorist killed. Another US strike in Pakistani soil. And it appears that updates have been made. Fixed article reference in the blurb (it was earlier going to the disambiguation (yay! finally spelt it right in the first attempt!) page. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 14:42, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ilyas Kashmiri

[Posted] Libyan helicopter operations

Article: 2011 Libyan civil war (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ NATO begins employing attack helicopters for the first time in air operations over Libya. (Post)
News source(s): cbc.ca bbc.co.uk aljazeera.net
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Finally some real progress. Helicopters are a real force multiplier if they are well protected. Update coming soon. Marcus Qwertyus 12:51, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is now   Ready and updated. I will of course incorporate new material as it comes in. Marcus Qwertyus 13:28, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know, seems a little...tactical...for a major story. RxS (talk) 15:41, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well the reason the operations are getting so much attention is that they are the start of a long series of missions, not that today's operations are of any tactical significance (actually it might be considering Breda is a key oil field but what good is oil if you can't refine it?. Fun fact: An attack helicopter destroys around 17 times its own production cost before it is destroyed."main+battle+tank"&hl=en&ei=NQhZTdP-HM_UgAemj93YDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CE0Q6AEwBzgU#v=onepage&q="main battle tank"&f=false. Marcus Qwertyus 15:54, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Don't you love how GBook urls never format correctly?Marcus Qwertyus 15:54, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 3

June 3, 2011 (2011-06-03) (Friday)
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Death of James Arness

Article: James Arness (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ James Arness, an American actor best known for the role of Marshal Matt Dillon in Gunsmoke, dies at the age of 88. (Post)
News source(s): Los Angeles Times
Credits:

Article needs updating
That's an argument in favour of fixing the article, not excluding this item from ITN. HiLo48 (talk) 05:07, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support He was the star of the longest-running prime-time drama series on television — tied in 2010 by Law & Order, though unlike that show Arness starred in every season; Gunsmoke was a top-ten show 11 more seasons than L&O, including four consecutive seasons at #1. Arness played the role longer than any other TV actor, not just for the twenty years in a row but across five decades including TV films in the '80s and '90s. Gunsmoke used to be the biggest thing on television and he was its main star and it's absurd that people aren't interested in getting any perspective. This was waaaaay before my time and I hated the thing when I caught a rerun as a kid but I know what Gunsmoke was. Ratings recognized him as a leader in his field. I tidied up the article, looks a lot better now. Of course many articles could be a lot better, but there doesn't seem to be anything about it that should prevent listing. Abrazame (talk) 07:31, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You say it "was waaaaay before my time", and you still support it. I wonder how many of the Oppose votes are from younger folk who cannot conceive that old stuff matters? HiLo48 (talk) 08:11, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm perfectly happy to accept that old stuff matters, but I still think that without winning an award he isn't notable enough. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:36, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not an old guy, but still I can see this guy's career was long... but as Eraserhead says, he isn't notable enough, and this news is, perhaps, largely "local". Is he known outside the US? Probably not. Diego Grez (talk) 15:29, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm in Australia. This very matter came up at a dinner among friends last night. VERY well known here. See also earlier comments about fame in Europe. HiLo48 (talk) 17:49, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's a vote (which means nothing in Wikipedia) rather than a comment that adds anything to the discussion. It's a particularly silly post to make just after I have suggested that all the oppose points have been negated. I could handle it if you pointed out where I was wrong, but to just agree with stuff I said had been refuted is hardly helpful. HiLo48 (talk) 09:14, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No. You haven't refuted the arguments above. To take a pick: Eraserhead's point about him not winning significant awards in a profession that gives them out freely. Talking about your friends' dinner parties is a particularly useless contribution to the project. --Mkativerata (talk) 09:23, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
But you're still just voting? Nothing new to add? (He did have three Emmy nominations. Many don't get nominated.) HiLo48 (talk) 09:32, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not having anything new to add is no barrier to contributing. Consensus may not be a vote, but numbers are important and far from irrelevant. Three Emmy nominations. Wow! --Mkativerata (talk) 09:33, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Death of Jack Kevorkian

Article: Jack Kevorkian (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Jack Kevorkian, an assisted suicide activist, physician, and convicted murderer, dies at the age of 83. Blurb suggested by NW (Talk) 15:33, 3 June 2011 (UTC) (Post)[reply]
Credits:

Article updated
Support. A controversial person known worldwide for his views; his death is certainly newsworthy and meets the death criteria (criterion 2: a very important figure). Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 13:21, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as nom. I think he is a household name for many Americans (I'm not an American), but for those who are not familiar, he was well-known for "publicly championing a terminal patient's right to die via physician-assisted suicide", causing a massive controversy and went to prison for the suicides he assisted. I believe he is notable enough for ITN, even though he died an old age. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:22, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support actually came here to nominate this... Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 13:25, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support when updated, as per BorgQueen.--Johnsemlak (talk) 15:00, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. R.I.P. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:37, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article has been updated. --BorgQueen (talk) 15:42, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Posted. If anyone wants to suggest a better blurb, please do. NW (Talk) 16:03, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I would suggest dropping the 'convicted murderer' for of the blurb, as he's mainly known as an activist for his cause.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:17, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Done. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:19, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Please undo. That is a substantive change in the blurb and I would argue that it represents a departure from NPOV. The fact he is a convicted murderer is not in dispute and is an essential element of any neutral portrayal of the man, regardless of one's views on euthanasia. In any case, the current blurb is not what approved here and has no consensus for it. Crispmuncher (talk) 23:44, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Disagree, that's not what he's known for and would unduly skew the picture the blurb presents. RxS (talk) 23:49, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, he was convicted of murder, but only because of what really made him important, "publicly championing a terminal patient's right to die via physician-assisted suicide". (That's straight from his article.) There are many convicted murderers. Most don't make it here. Kevorkian is here because of his right-to-die activism. HiLo48 (talk) 00:04, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I would contend that is precisely what he is known for. There are hundreds of thousands of activists for the entire range of issues. The whole rationale for this posting is that Kevorkian is notable because of the controversy he generated. What made him notable? It wasn't writing to Congressmen, marching with placards or any other "ordinary" campaigning methods, it was his direct involvement in over 100 deaths. Telling half the story - that he is controversial without saying why - can never be held to be NPOV, just as the use of deliberately emotive language (e.g. "serial killer") can't be justified on the same grounds. "Convicted murderer" is relatively neutral yet shoes why he is notable and why he should be on ITN. NPOV does not preclude calling a spade a spade - in fact it requires it. Crispmuncher (talk) 00:19, 4 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
    Kevorkian is known primarily for his acts in the area of assisted suicide (including those leading to his conviction), not for the conviction itself. —David Levy 00:35, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    I would agree with that, but then if so why don't we mention that, and if so how do we do that in an NPOV manner. Describing him as a "murderer" or "killer" would be accurate in law but a fundamentally anti-euthanasia POV. Convicted murderer, on the other hand, is a factual statement - we are reporting the legal interpretation of his actions, something that is consistent with NPOV. Crispmuncher (talk) 00:55, 4 June 2011 (UTC)/[reply]
    Mention what? That he's known primarily assisted suicide and not for the conviction? That's a little too much detail for a blurb, they can work that out in the article. The conviction is a offshoot of what he's known for, certainly not what people think of first when reading his name. RxS (talk) 01:09, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Kevorkian was pretty famous before he was convicted, so I do't see the conviction as crucial to his notability. Furthermore, calling him an 'activist' indicates that me may have gone to jail for his cause.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:12, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Yemeni president injured in attack

Article: 2011 Yemeni uprising (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ President of Yemen Ali Abdullah Saleh is injured in an attack on the presidential palace as ongoing conflict continues in the country. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

 Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 13:02, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 2

June 2, 2011 (2011-06-02) (Thursday)
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Jaycee Lee Dugard sentences

Source for story.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:39, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Updated the article.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:57, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
incase they dont die? lol -- Ashish-g55 02:41, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 Georgian protests aftermath

Source for story.--BabbaQ (talk) 12:53, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
conditional support on an improved article, (though there are many more Arab Spring -related protests to add (like Uganda and Lesotho/Swaziland (forget which one))Lihaas (talk) 02:49, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

MyPlate

Article: MyPlate (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The MyPlate icon replaces the MyPyramid diagram as the United States Department of Agriculture's official food guideline icon. (Post)
News source(s): http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/03/business/03plate.html, http://www.choosemyplate.gov/
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: This new icon will be on the sides of billions of individual food items over the years in the United States. 76.105.176.44 (talk) 23:21, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak Support I don't know how notable it is if they change it every little while, but I would say that throughout the history of the food guideline diagram there have only been 5 designs total (I think?). So I'm leaning support, even though the recent changes have been relatively close going back-to-back. That said, the article needs substantial updates and a description of the new pyramid - it mostly lists the history of the old ones. (And expansion doesn't mean adding only loads of commentary and quotes about it...the article needs more explanation). SpencerT♦C 00:12, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've been working on expansion now that the article has been approved for submission. One difficulty in expanding the explanation of the icon, though, is its simplicity. There's essentially one simple sentence of additional info per food group, and that's it. No fine print about serving sizes and food examples, for example. The USDA does provide those guidelines, but they didn't change with the icon. Nevertheless, I have managed some expansion. 76.105.176.44 (talk) 01:40, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
obvious oppose no way is this news anywehre, or even intl notable.Lihaas (talk) 02:50, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There are currently 190 articles on the topic in Google News[66], including international sources like Agence France-Presse[67], The Australian[68], The Daily Mail[69] and The Canadian Press[70]; there was a joint press conference by the First Lady of the United States and the USDA; and the icon will be seen by hundreds of millions of people on billions of food items for untold years. 76.105.176.44 (talk) 03:43, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Question I don't suppose this really affects anyone outside the United States does it? It's not as if anybody uses their website [71] and I haven't really seen the new pyramid on any packaging after they replaced it. Marcus Qwertyus 04:08, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Does it actually affect anyone inside the United States? HiLo48 (talk) 04:40, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's on the front pages of The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, USA Today, etc. It will be the staple of nutritional education for a generation of Americans. If there were an "In the news" section for the US, this would be on it, but I agree it doesn't rise to international news. 76.105.176.44 (talk) 15:22, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose of no consequence outside of the US. Mtking (talk) 04:24, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Am I right that this is the first time 'meat' has been dropped as the name of one of the food groups? Pretty significant considering the historical influence of the meat industry.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:39, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Not even remotely relevant outside US. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 05:47, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Absolute astonishment ...that this is even nominated. I've been waiting to see why it's significant to the world, and seen less rather than more. I honestly cannot see any reason why this should have even cracked a mention here. Would anyone ever contemplate nominating a similar change in another country? Or is this the classic example of US-centrism that we can wheel out in future to show people what US-centrism actually is? HiLo48 (talk) 05:57, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Why don't you ask the nominator? Their talk page is here> [72]. RxS (talk) 06:02, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, I changed my mind. Please don't. Your comments are bitey enough here. There's no need to antagonize new editors...submissions here should be encouraged, and not slammed because you don't personally agree with them. I'm not sure you quit get the whole collaborative wiki thing. RxS (talk) 06:20, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    No intention of personalising it any further. I was new once too, and I do want to encourage newbies. We don't do it well enough. So apologies if it offends. But even as a newbie there is no way I would have contemplated posting an equivalent change in my country for this article. Hence my concerns about US-centrism. That's a big problem for Wikipedia, and obviously not just from this nominator. HiLo48 (talk) 06:59, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support The food pyramid actually had a profound impact on the way nutrition was assessed internationally. After the pyramid was introduced as a USDA guideline, many countries adapted it for their use. I remember growing up overseas where the pyramid was being taught in elementary schools. Some examples can be found here. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 09:47, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support not because its the US government, or because its a government agency changing its logo for something but because changing over from food pyramids, which are widely used worldwide to a food plate seems like a significant innovation. Additionally given people eat food on plates this looks more like how you eat food. I'd be happy to support this if the EU or another country had come up with it. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 13:35, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Marking [Ready?] given the update and support, and that the opposing statements all oppose on the claim that it isn't relevant outside the US, which was refuted by the nominator pointing to significant international coverage. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 13:39, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • I reject that view. This is a purely US-centric story, international coverage or not. Removed the tag. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 14:13, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • I don't necessarily support this, but a story being US centric is not an automatic disqualifier, especially when an item has international coverage. This is the English Wikipedia and the US accounts for nearly half our readers (44 or so percent). — Preceding unsigned comment added by RxS (talk • contribs) 15:21, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • Virtually everything we cover is x country centric, when looking through stories geographically most things we post only affect one country, or a small group of countries. Additionally there is also the point that lots of other people use food pyramids, maybe now they will use food plates instead?
          • Frankly I spent a while thinking about this as I really wasn't sure about it, but if the opposing arguments can't come up with anything better than "its US centric" then we should post this. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:17, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose This sort of retread comes out with every new administration. It is a press release, not a real development. μηδείς (talk) 18:03, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How is it "just a press release"? They've come up with an entirely new way to label food groups. Its not just an incremental change. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:06, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And it's just plain wrong. The food pyramid was introduced in 1992. Do we even care about facts anymore here? RxS (talk) 18:19, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Remarking [Ready] until someone can come up with a decent reason not to post this. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:23, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
To clarify 'decent reason' any argument that hasn't already been refuted or is not clearly factually incorrect will do here. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:47, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Removed given HTD above. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:07, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
[Edit conflict, was about to remove ready marker] There aren't many times I get angry on Wikipedia but this is one. International significance is a key ITN criteria. You can't casually dismiss every single strong oppose (as opposed to some self-declared weak supports) because they are not relevant when the grounds for the oppose are based on a key consideration. Those opposes are not something to be brushed aside, they stop it dead in its tracks. The substance to this story is that one organisation has opted to change the way data is presented. The reasons for that are purely communicative rather than any underlying change in what is thought. Nor is it in any way revolutionary - a range of organisations produce this kind of material in a broad spectrum of different forms. It could be pyramids, it could be plates, it could be traffic lights, it could even be tabular - ultimately it is a matter of presentation rather than substance. One organisation based in one country changes its presentation from one form to another. The new method is not revolutionary in any way at all. How is that ITN worthy? Since some people choose to ignore arguments in favour of straw polls, you guessed it, this is a strong oppose.Crispmuncher (talk) 19:10, 4 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
I wonder where people get the idea that something has to have international significance in order to qualify. We routinely post things that don't. Elections, accidents, natural disasters...we post those sorts of things without any consideration of international significance. The difference here of course is that there's a small group of editors that don't want to see any US centric stuff posted. Then of course it's an issue, but it's not a valid one. RxS (talk) 19:23, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) International significance isn't in the ITN criteria. Take something like the example update article - 2010 Jiangxi train derailment, there is no significance of that event outside of China. To take one of the biggest stories of last year, the 2010 Copiapó mining accident which was featured on ITN 3 times last year and also has no international significance. If people had made that arguments in those nominations that they've made here we wouldn't have posted those stories at all. Lack of international interest is more reasonable, but as pointed out by the nominator there is international interest.
I'm perfectly content not to post this, but some sort of real argument beyond "its only of interest to the US" which was manifestly false needs to have been made. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:34, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Halicephalobus mephisto

Article: Halicephalobus mephisto (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The discovery of Halicephalobus mephisto, the deepest living land multicellular organism, is announced. (Post)
News source(s): [73] [74]
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Support as nominator. J Milburn (talk) 10:57, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Post-post support. Nice change of pace, an interesting article, and science is under-represented at ITN. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 14:12, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

June 1

Belarus requests an IMF rescue loan

Article: Belarus (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Belarus requests a rescue loan from the International Monetary Fund. (Post)
News source(s): [75],[76],[77]
Credits:

Article updated

[Ready]Space Shuttle Endeavour

Template:ITN candidate

Who nominated this? Anyway, the STS134 article was bolded at launch. This story is about the shuttle's last flight. Support if Endeavour is bolded link. StrPby (talk) 22:48, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Good point; I changed it. Tyrol5 [Talk] 01:33, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No. HiLo48 (talk) 20:48, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As been mentioned above, it is a historic event. Truthsort (talk) 19:31, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, as we've already mentioned in the launch blurb that this is the last mission. Although the focus was on another article back then, this is basically the same event. Eventually I would support if the launch and landing were a couple of months away from one another, but this is not the case with the Shuttle missions. --Tone 21:02, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Post the launch and landing of the last shuttle. this one launch is enough... -- Ashish-g55 00:20, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Nothing to add here. Marcus Qwertyus 01:05, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

quite a useless support if you have nothing to add. this is not a poll -- Ashish-g55 02:39, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I note that the opposition raised here was also raised during Discovery's return from its own last flight. That was not posted, but only because it wasn't updated (link). If this is updated, it should be posted as it has consensus. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 13:18, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the final landing of the last shuttle WILL be historical, virtually by definition. HiLo48 (talk) 09:15, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 Yemeni uprising

Template:ITN candidate 37 more dead people to add to the 50+ from yesterday to add to the 30 killed by government jets bombing a city to add to everything else that has happened since Yemen last appeared on ITN. --candle•wicke 12:24, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Let's just sticky the thing again. I see no need for any running update on ITN. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 12:57, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support but without sticky. Seems like Yemen becomes the most impetuous point of the protests at the moment, so I remind when the same was with Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Syria. And about the sticky, I'd strongly support to insert it again if only we have series of events worth posting.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:45, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Blurb please? --BorgQueen (talk) 16:39, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support Al-Jazeera -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 23:08, 29 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support we shamefully failed to feature the last important development in Yemen further down the ITN candidates page. Thue | talk 15:41, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/more-than-50-reportedly-killed-in-yemen-city-of-taiz-since-sunda/ 50 dead in Taiz --93.137.148.213 (talk) 08:17, 31 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. More than 50 dead and hundreds injured in one city. Must be worth posting Yemen. Why is this being ignored? --candle•wicke 19:40, 31 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There's still no update (to the article)...correct me if I'm wrong. RxS (talk) 20:12, 31 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose until updated.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:35, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now, there's no update. RxS (talk) 02:33, 31 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Seems like the key article is wrong, because we have a suitable update in the timeline.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:03, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Sepp Blatter reelected head of FIFA

Template:ITN candidate

  • I think this a good time to get this on the front page. The Fifa corruption allegations have been in the news for a while now, and this is a decent opportunity to feature the controversy.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:14, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Note that it hasn't officially happenet yet, but as he is running unopposed it is a near certainty; Nevertheless this shouldn't posted until it's official.--Johnsemlak (talk) 09:19, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - only candidate in an election that is closed to the public = non-story. Mjroots (talk) 10:52, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Clearly getting major airtime and column inches all around the world, especially with the ongoing issues with FIFA. The BBC World Service is talking about the story almost daily on one of its (non-football) radio shows. Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 11:05, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Clearly a highly notable election. There is a lot of controversy around this. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 11:30, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Get the perspective right. Sepp Blatter being re-elected is not the story. It's what has gone before and what is presumably still happening, leading to a single candidate election. The corruption is the story. Plus the appalling image FIFA now has. HiLo48 (talk) 11:45, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support if the corruption allegations are highlighted. That seems to be the reason this is receiving so much attention. --candle•wicke 12:01, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note that the corruption allegations are detailed in the bolded article. I agree the controversy is the main story but I think there's some concern about posting mere 'allegations' on the main page.--Johnsemlak (talk) 16:48, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Can't use the word elected, re-appointed would be better. Mtking (talk) 11:59, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support but with different wording. As we usually post the results of Presidential election in one country, it's by far sufficient to me to post the Presidential election of the internationally recognized governing body in the most popular sport in the world that gathers members of almost every country.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:54, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Why did you choose to totally ignore the concerns expressed by previous posters? HiLo48 (talk) 20:33, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer the blurb to highlight his re-election, rather than allegations amid the election.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:20, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose A mere formality given he is already in the position and was the only candidate. This is a non-governmental organisation too. The corruption story may have some legs but remving this minor side show there is not really a lot to justify a post at this time - wait for some more significant development. Crispmuncher (talk) 19:44, 1 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Support, but as HiLo48 says, it's the corruption that's the story here, the re-election is trivia by itself. Lampman (talk) 21:57, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Template:Cite web
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