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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/May 2020

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May 31

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May 31, 2020 (2020-05-31) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Jayanendra Chand Thakuri

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Article: Jayanendra Chand Thakuri (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Himalayan Times Republica
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Nepali actor known for his work in Nepali cinema. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSAtalk 13:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mady Mesplé

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Article: Mady Mesplé (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Figaro
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Another opera singer of a century. I know there should be more lead, and a few ends lack refs, - could someone who knows French please help? The Figaro ref probably covers more. Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:54, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Fabio Lombini

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Stale. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:48, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Fabio Lombini (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): 1, 2
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Ow, yes, sorry. Was supposed to be my “comment”. SportsOlympic (talk) 09:58, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Converted to RD per discussion.130.233.2.88 (talk) 10:19, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Osia Lewis

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Article: Osia Lewis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): OregonLive, Tennessean
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American athlete & coach. - Indefensible (talk) 04:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Christo

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Article: Christo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP, NYT, CNN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Conceptual artist known for large-scale, international spectacle events, many of which are independently notable czar 23:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man and Indefensible, after much ado, fully sourced now, if you'll revisit czar 06:58, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
He was quite a wrap star, all right. – Sca (talk) 13:17, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Norman Lamm

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Stale. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:49, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Norman Lamm (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [1][2]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Chancellor of Yeshiva University, Major leader of American Modern Orthodox Judaism, Author, scholar and communal leader. I think even a blurb might be appropriate in this case. Sir Joseph (talk) 18:21, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
True, but it seems like overkill – and I, too, would oppose a blurb. – Sca (talk) 15:46, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sca, the article has been update and I think it is OK for an RD at this time. Sir Joseph (talk) 16:37, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 30

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May 30, 2020 (2020-05-30) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections
  • COVID-19 pandemic in Russia
    • Russian President Vladimir Putin announces the adoption of a new package of measures to support the economy and citizens in the context of the coronavirus pandemic. This payment does not cancel but supplements the previously introduced support measures. Additionally, Putin proposed to establish a monthly payment of five thousand rubles for families with children under three years of age. (RT)

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Michel Gauthier

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Article: Michel Gauthier (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC News; The Globe and Mail; La Presse (in French)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Leader of the Official Opposition in Canada from 1996 to 1997. Bloom6132 (talk) 11:33, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Yawovi Agboyibo

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Article: Yawovi Agboyibo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): L-frii (French)
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Prime Minister of Togo. - Indefensible (talk) 05:06, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: John Nzenze

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Article: John Nzenze (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Daily Nation
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Kenyan musician. - Indefensible (talk) 05:06, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Hassan Hosny

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Article: Hassan Hosny (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The National, Gulf News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Veteran Egyptian actor and comedian who performed in almost 500 films, plays and TV shows over a 50+ year career. Well-known in the Arab World. Droodkin (talk) 13:25, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I have adjusted the section accordingly and hope for a second look. Droodkin (talk) 23:16, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Both WP:ELP and WP:CITINGIMDB state that you cannot use IMDb as a reliable source. —Bloom6132 (talk) 23:28, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Elsa Dorfman

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Article: Elsa Dorfman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Boston Globe; WBUR-FM
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 12:27, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Bobby Morrow

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Article: Bobby Morrow (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press; ValleyCentral News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 02:43, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Crew Dragon

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Article: Crew Dragon Demo-2 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ SpaceX's Crew Dragon and Falcon 9 make their first crewed launch (pictured) for NASA. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ SpaceX's Crew Dragon makes its first crewed launch (pictured) for NASA aboard Falcon 9.
News source(s): NYT; BBC
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: The hatch is closed and the countdown running but the weather is not looking good again.... Andrew🐉(talk) 18:13, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 29

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May 29, 2020 (2020-05-29) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Shahine Robinson

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Article: Shahine Robinson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Jamaica Observer
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Jamaican politician. - Indefensible (talk) 05:31, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jerzy Pilch

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Article: Jerzy Pilch (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Polskie Radio 24
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Polish author & journalist. - Indefensible (talk) 05:27, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Maikanti Baru

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Article: Maikanti Baru (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Cable
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Nigerian oil marketer, former chief of state oil company. – Ammarpad (talk) 06:02, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Twin Cities riots

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New blurb posted, item bumped, issues with it can go to WP:ERRORS --LaserLegs (talk) 09:55, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Articles: Twin Cities riots (talk · history · tag) and Death of George Floyd (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the United States, protests and riots (pictured) break out following the death of George Floyd during a police arrest in Minneapolis. (Post)
News source(s): WaPo, Yahoo!, BBC, France24, AP, Mpls. Star-Tribune
Credits:

Both articles updated
Nominator's comments: International coverage, notable development. Though there is a proposed rename, it seems to be closing soon. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 15:57, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Which is true, but the protests are the news item not the police brutality nor the charges against the officer. No need to update the blurb. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:31, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also remember: we usually only post on conviction, not arrest. --Masem (t) 05:43, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update as the protests (and rioting) seem to have spread to other cities across the US (AP reports clashes in Atlanta and NYC), should this link to the national-leval article George Floyd protests instead? Juxlos (talk) 05:34, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • The protest article is not in good shape to be linked, but I have devised a solution by bringing some of the most notable/worst cases of those incidents into the riots article so that the highlighted article is covering them, so that we not buried the nationwide violence going on in the main topic story. --Masem (t) 05:43, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Absolutely no media mention where I come from of "Twin Cities". What is that? Described exclusively as being "Minneapolis". Any chance we can change this to a more globally recognisable name? Because "Twin Cities" simply isn't in the news here. HiLo48 (talk) 05:49, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That is a comment for Talk:Twin Cities riots where several RM discussions are taking place — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:02, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No it's not. That page is a mess, with all sorts of RM discussions (as you say) and none of them to what I'm suggesting. We can fix this bit ourselves. I checked all the sources at the top of this nomination. The first is paywalled, so I have no idea what it says, but all the others describe these riots as being in Minneapolis. No mention of Twin Cities. Minneapolis Riots is already a redirect to Twin Cities riots. For clarity, can we simply change the title of this section to Minneapolis riots? (How did this ever get the name Twin Cities riots in the first place? It obviously doesn't reflect the sources.) HiLo48 (talk) 08:52, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    A cursory search for "Twin Cities riots" give 25.6 million results, "Minneapolis riots" give 161 million. Juxlos (talk) 09:12, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I have attempted a reword of the blurb (comments invited) but I can't unilaterally move the article. That will have to wait for the RM to conclude. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:25, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Stale) RD: Abderrahmane Youssoufi

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Article: Abderrahmane Youssoufi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Middle East Online
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Moroccan lawyer, politician, former PM of Morocco, socialist activist and of other causes. On the short side, but sourced. ^_^ CoryGlee (talk) 12:47, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's sadly true. CoryGlee (talk) 18:55, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Ajit Jogi

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Article: Ajit Jogi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hindustan Times
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: First Chief Minister of Chhattisgarh Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 12:28, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Has some but not complete referencing; has a general list of political positions and committees without depth of coverage regarding what the subject did in those roles. Controversies section shows some depth of coverage but isn't really balanced by what the subject did as a politician (and thus could possibly be UNDUE, but due to the limited detail elsewhere in the article). SpencerT•C 21:48, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now stale. Black Kite (talk) 10:54, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 28

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May 28, 2020 (2020-05-28) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Sports

(Posted) RD: Peter Alexander (artist)

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Article: Peter Alexander (artist) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Los Angeles Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died on May 26, but his death was only first reported on May 28. Bloom6132 (talk) 10:41, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Decision on Hong Kong national security legislation

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Articles: National People's Congress Decision on Hong Kong national security legislation (talk · history · tag) and 2019–20 Hong Kong protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Chinese Goverment approved a decision to draft and enact the Decision on Hong Kong national security legislation law in response to the 2019–20 Hong Kong protests. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Chinese Goverment approved a decision to draft and enact the Decision on Hong Kong national security legislation law and the United States declared that Hong Kong is no longer autonomous from China in response to the 2019–20 Hong Kong protests.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Chinese Goverment approved a decision to draft and enact the Decision on Hong Kong national security legislation law, with only one person opposing and 6 abstaining, in response to the 2019–20 Hong Kong protests.
Alternative blurb III: ​ The Hong Kong national security legislation law is enacted by the Chinese government, giving them increased control over Hong Kong.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ US to suspend Hong Kong special trade status after China decides to draft and enact national security legislation for Hong Kong
News source(s): BBC, Bloomberg, South China Morning Post & more. BBC (alt1)
Credits:

Both articles updated

 — RealFakeKimT 10:06, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I think "pass…a law" should really read "approved a decision to draft and enact a [whatever] law", since the decision, as noted on the talk page, is not the law. Also, surely "autonomous from", not "autonomous to"? Docentation (talk) 10:29, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The decision authorises a separate body to start writing the actual law. It isn't really in and of itself much of a law in the ordinary sense; we can think of it more as a statement of intent, albeit one with legal effect. The national security law that will follow hasn't even been written yet. Docentation (talk) 11:17, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In that case I'm leaning more towards wait for it to actually come into force, or if it's posted now then to not post it again as it moves through the legislative process --LaserLegs (talk) 16:52, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hm, interesting suggestion. Perhaps you're right—maybe we should wait. I think the furore itself might be worth covering, but that's not as clear cut. (Obviously in that case my initial alt. IV is fairly unhelpful, so I'll change it.) Docentation (talk) 18:11, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose in it's current state 2/3 of the article is "background" and "responses" filler and while some domestic responses are pertinent, a lot of it is just fluff. --LaserLegs (talk) 11:04, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I should say that the background/legal authority section is not just about background, and most of it in fact is pretty directly germane to the decision, in that it concerns whether or not the decision was constitutionally permissible. I agree that much of the "response" section is fluff, but at least the US international response section is probably worth including, in that more than words could follow. Docentation (talk) 11:32, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That Dotard and his lackeys would use any excuse they can to antagonize the PRC should surprise no one. The US has zero credibility in this regard. I retract my objection to the background section, upon reflection, you are correct. --LaserLegs (talk) 13:20, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've cleaned up the reaction section quite a bit. I wouldn't say it was fluff so much as inflated—I think it was more that undue weight was given to it, in that that section was far too long. I've cut it down so that now it's clear that many countries have opposed it without having to duplicate mostly fairly similar statements for each. And yes, as for the Trump stuff, it seems quite probable that there will be more than words here, and the conflict will escalate quite a bit, so it is worth leaving in the different steps—decertification of autonomy, proposals to impose sanctions, etc.—though I did remove some duplication and Trump asking exactly what was going on in his usual, er, bombastic fashion; we now have better idea from his officials of what exactly will be done. Docentation (talk) 16:20, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The proposed blurbs are too arcane - which I suppose is residue of the Chinese legislative process. The only think concrete at this stage is Pompeo's decertification - that might be a good way to position. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:22, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, except the target would still need to be the law... it's tricky. GreatCaesarsGhost 00:30, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Agree that the suggested blurbs are too diffuse and prolix (as is the title of this nom.). Most of the mainstream coverage I've seen hangs its hat on a simple idea – usually the move to "make insulting China’s national anthem a criminal offense" (Time). – Sca (talk) 13:28, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @LaserLegs: I didn't see this question yet: the decision is a legal decision saying China is allowing itself to make a law (that Hong Kong's Basic Law says only Hong Kong should be able to). So they've enacted that bit of legal text, and can in the future can use it to pass a security law. I don't think they've yet decided to draft legislation, but the point is they're deconstructing Hong Kong's independent laws. Kingsif (talk) 21:03, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment yet another alternative, hopefully sufficiently clear, but more accurate. Docentation (talk) 18:08, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait. This is a significant story with major implications for Hong Kong's autonomy, but all that has happened so far is the rubber-stamping of permission to draft a security law that the central government is threatening to impose. If/when that law is actually completed and imposed on Hong Kong, that will be a major development worth posting in ITN. Mere formalities around the drafting process are not. We should wait until the law is implemented or there are major public protests (minor ones have begun). Modest Genius talk 18:18, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note that given China's political system, this would not be occurring if there was any chance the government would reject this effort. Their legislature is a rubber-stamp body. 331dot (talk) 19:15, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In addition to that, I should say that the US reaction is possibly newsworthy. Docentation (talk) 19:50, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well yes, that's the point. The decision had already been taken privately; the NPC vote is just a rubber-stamp. Why post the stage that was never in any doubt? Modest Genius talk 20:25, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
China has a habit of doing this sort of thing in an incremental way that prevents people from taking note until it's all over. When would you have it posted? GreatCaesarsGhost 00:30, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As I said above: when the law actually comes into force, or when large-scale protests erupt. ITN's role is to post important events, not minor ones that seem to be a step on the way to something significant. Modest Genius talk 11:31, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - For now. The law is not in effect yet. Until that happens I don’t see a reason to post.BabbaQ (talk) 08:46, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Until actually enacted. Gotitbro (talk) 01:36, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Agree this is a news item to post once it is enacted, but it does not appear to be close to that at this point. --Masem (t) 01:44, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Article is tagged and under review at DRN. It's a well-covered topic that would be posted quickly here but for wont of a suitable article. The comment above, to the effect that subject's political system operates incrementally and thus necessarily never affords a watershed moment for posting, is spot on. "Wait" is the wrong response, but the article has to be at least free of tags. Edit history suggests that article could use some pp.130.233.2.88 (talk) 07:07, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment—in view of developments a few hours ago I have altered Alt. IV. Also, I think the article has now been cleaned up to a reasonable extent. The reaction section is fairly short and concise, especially in the statements subsection. Most of the space is dedicated to actual policy responses. The factual accuracy dispute has been resolved. The earlier background/legal authority section mostly concerns whether the decision's proposals are constitutional, so aren't just about earlier developments. Docentation (talk) 22:48, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support (alt. IV)—suspension of HK trade status is reasonably impactful. There is an article about the thing that triggered this (the decision to draft and enact the law), and there is something reasonably newsworthy. Docentation (talk) 22:48, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Paul Shrubb

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Article: Paul Shrubb (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Aldershot Town FC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: English football player and manager, seems a decently referenced little article JW 1961 Talk 21:00, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 27

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May 27, 2020 (2020-05-27) (Wednesday)
Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Biff Pocoroba

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Article: Biff Pocoroba (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press; NBC Sports; The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died on May 24, but his death was only first reported on May 27. Bloom6132 (talk) 17:47, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Sam Johnson

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Article: Sam Johnson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times / Reuters, Associated Press, The Dallas Morning News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: US congressman who served in both the Korean War and the Vietnam War. Bloom6132 (talk) 03:54, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Crew Dragon

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Closing as the launch was scrubbed. Can be renominated when the launch occurs. 331dot (talk) 20:27, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Dragon 2 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ SpaceX's Crew Dragon (pictured) makes its first manned launch for NASA (Post)
News source(s): BBC; CNN
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: I'm watching the countdown and feeling the excitement of the original space race. Coverage such as the BBC example is calling this a historic new era. The outcome remains to be seen but we should be getting an entry ready. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:57, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest close without prejudice and renominating on launch. --LaserLegs (talk) 20:20, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Crew Dragon Demo-2 is decent, few CN tags I added but even without refs the passages aren't scandalous. A bit proseline-y and we should wait until the actual launch before posting (which I admit is in 15 minutes) due to the possibility of a weather related scrub. --LaserLegs (talk) 20:19, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Larry Kramer

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Article: Larry Kramer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American playwright and LGBT rights activist dies at age 84. Non-COVID. Davey2116 (talk) 15:48, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 26

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May 26, 2020 (2020-05-26) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents
  • Huge swarms of desert locusts destroy crops in central and western India prompting authorities to step up their response to the country's worst plague in nearly three decades. (Al Jazeera)

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Irm Hermann

edit
Article: Irm Hermann (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): FR Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Another German actress, Fassbinder's confidante (19 of his films), and much more on stage, in film and TV. Better obits came only today, please have mercy regarding the date ;) - stubby thing needed expansion first. Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:22, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Marking ready, cannot see a lack of consensus -- PaulBetteridge (talk) 14:21, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  Posted. El_C 18:06, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Prahlad Jani

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Article: Prahlad Jani (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): DeshGujarat
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Minor copyediting may required. Nizil (talk) 11:21, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Life described; adequately sourced. A reasonable balance seems to have been achieved on some extraordinary claims. Some minor copyediting has been done. -- PaulBetteridge (talk) 12:48, 30 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Marking ready, even if I am the only person to have read it -- PaulBetteridge (talk) 14:22, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Arumugam Thondaman

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Article: Arumugam Thondaman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times of India
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Sri Lankan Minister Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 09:58, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Costa Rica marriage equality

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Article: Same-sex marriage in Costa Rica (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Costa Rica becomes the first Central American country to introduce marriage equality. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Costa Rica introduces marriage equality, becoming the first Central American country to do so.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Nominating for something new to the now-stale box. I know we don't really post 'new country allows same-sex marriage', and that the first in Central America isn't that impressive. And that it has only come into effect after being passed in 2018. But... it's happy, and recent. Kingsif (talk) 23:49, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Christian Mbulu

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Article: Christian Mbulu (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:26, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Anthony Bailey (author)

edit
Article: Anthony Bailey (author) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died on May 13, but his death was only first reported on May 26. Bloom6132 (talk) 05:14, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Post-posting striking my oppose. Good work.130.233.2.88 (talk) 06:47, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support Intro has info that could be better put in the body of the article (e.g. names of his children), but should be more or less good to go. Marking ready. SpencerT•C 13:51, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Stanley Ho

edit
Article: Stanley Ho (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): South China Morning Post, Bloomberg. Reuters, BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: known as King of Gambling, one of Asia's richest Man and easily one of the most recognizable figures in Hong Kong, Macau and Asia Dps04 (talk) 06:29, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 25

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May 25, 2020 (2020-05-25) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Renate Krößner

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Article: Renate Krößner (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BZ
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Actress from East Berlin who - as Solo Sunny - won the first Berlinale award for anything from the East in 1980. - Stub expanded and referenced more. As usual, there's more detail in the sources, feel free. I interrupted work with a deadline. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:02, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Death of George Floyd

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Article: Death of George Floyd (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Protests break out following the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis, Minnesota, US. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Four police officers are fired and protests occur following the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis, Minnesota, US.
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Feel free to propose alternate blurbs or post as RD. The blurb I proposed is taken from the discussion below. TJMSmith (talk) 23:59, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: Something along the lines of "Protests break out following the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis, Minnesota." —Matthew - (talk) 22:09, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. But those "protests" obviously aren't convenient in the evenings, nothing substantial right? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 22:31, 27 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Upon re-reading my idea for a blurb, I think what I wrote places too much emphasis on the ensuing protests. I think the death of George Floyd is the primary topic of interest here, rather than the protests. I was just trying to come up with a blurb with wording that didn't make it seem as though the reader is supposed to already know who Floyd is (see Kingsif's comment). Perhaps something like "Four police officers are fired and protests occur following the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis, Minnesota" would be preferable. —Matthew - (talk) 00:27, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
With further protests occurring and a blurb about the situation now posted in ITN, my above comment has become outdated. —Matthew - (talk) 19:39, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Frankly, I find it a little concerning that certain significant incidents of police brutality were not approved for placement in ITN in the past. Looking back at the archives, I was surprised to learn that not even the death of Eric Garner in 2014 was approved to be posted. Editors who weighed in as opposition on the matter used terms like "parochial" to describe the event and called its nomination "ridiculous", with one editor writing that it was "Hard to believe this was nominated". The shooting of Michael Brown that same year was only approved after a grand jury declined to indict the police officer responsible for his death, and even then, many editors were hesitant about its approval. One editor wrote that Michael Brown's death and the ensuing riots in Ferguson would not be "something we will all remember in a month/year/decade". Well, over five years have passed since those events, and many people still remember them. It's one thing to counter systemic bias by highlighting news with a non-American perspective. I think it's another thing to consistently ignore the ongoing significance of police brutality and racism in the United States. —Matthew - (talk) 00:23, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Chrisclear: Fixed. —Matthew - (talk) 05:27, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Posted — Global headline coverage of event, meets ITN criteria, and sufficient consensus exists to post this. As always, continued civil discussion on the topic is welcome. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 05:36, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support: Significant news coverage on both national and regional US new sources as well as global news sources. —Shrinkydinks (talk) 05:44, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment: The section Death_of_George_Floyd#Memorials,_protests,_and_riots has been split into 2020 Twin Cities riots. As several users noted, the significant part of this event is the public reaction. As such, I believe the word "protests" in the blurb should wikilink to 2020 Twin Cities riots: In the United States, protests (pictured) break out following the death of George Floyd during a police arrest in Minneapolis. userdude 07:09, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • And I will stress: that split is far too early in this process. Maybe we'll need it, but not yet, there's no size issue. --Masem (t) 07:11, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm inclined to agree; however, seeing as the article has already been split, the content from both articles ought to be accessible from the main page. I don't see the relevance of the appropriateness of the split. An inappropriate split should not be an excuse to let content be sequestered away. userdude 07:16, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • The protests are not limited to the Twin Cities. Stephen 07:58, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • Doesn't matter, because now if you are going to talk two separate articles, we have to consider the quality of both and there's far too much overlap of these at this time. This is why people need to not worry about adding every little detail ("hyperreporting") that goes one. That there are riots going on, but level of detail is far far too great. Big picture focus is necessary, at this point. If these protests go on for weeks, well after this has dropped off ITN or we've changed the blurb, then a split makes sense. But right not ,half the riot article is being used to cover the death, again, and possibly get away from the protections that were on the death page. --Masem (t) 08:13, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2020 Burundian general election

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Article: 2020 Burundian general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Evariste Ndayishimiye (pictured) is elected President of Burundi, and his CNDD–FDD party wins a majority of seats in the National Assembly. (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazeera BBC
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Presidential and parliamentary elections of a sovereign state should be in ITN by default. Sheila1988 (talk) 10:07, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Bucky Baxter

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Article: Bucky Baxter (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stones, Spin magazine; PopCulture.com
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Pedal steel guitarist who toured with Bob Dylan in the 90s. Bloom6132 (talk) 22:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Balbir Singh Sr.

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Stale, unimproved. Stephen 00:02, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Balbir Singh Sr. (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times of India
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Indian Hockey Olympic gold medalist. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 03:18, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Good article. Thought I'd better support this about a genuine champion in a sport that will be largely ignored by our North American colleagues. HiLo48 (talk) 04:26, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You say that like it's a bad thing. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:09, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just a reality. Got any thoughts on this nomination? HiLo48 (talk) 06:12, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
A genuine article. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:15, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
off-topic
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Isn't that the name of Donald Trump's debut rap album? Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 11:57, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That made my morning.--WaltCip (talk) 12:04, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Best one so far!!! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:08, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 24

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May 24, 2020 (2020-05-24) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment
International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Jimmy Cobb

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Article: Jimmy Cobb (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stones, Vatiety
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American famous jazz drummer. --SirEdimon Dimmi!!! 18:58, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: June A. Willenz

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Article: June A. Willenz (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died on May 3, but her death was only first reported on May 24. Bloom6132 (talk) 23:44, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Pakistan High Court orders to release Kaavan

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Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 23:17, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Kaavan (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Islamabad High Court orders to release the elephant Kaavan from Islamabad Zoo following a four year campaign by pop singer Cher. (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazeera, The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Pakistan High Court gave verdict to release the elephant which was a subject of controversy for over 20 years and was campaigned by Cher since 2016 demanding its release. Abishe (talk) 11:59, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – A preposterous pachydermal publicity ploy. – Sca (talk) 16:35, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It reminds me of Dumbo, too. But if it were ahead of a train crash, it would remind us of Jumbo. If only Cher had acted sooner, elephants and cyclones aren't a trope (or are they?) InedibleHulk (talk) 18:31, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you think so, fair enough, but it's relevant and significant to animal rights advocates. Significance and relevance are relative and depend on perspective. 331dot (talk) 22:38, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 23

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May 23, 2020 (2020-05-23) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Saturn

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Article: Saturn (alligator) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): TASS, RIA Novosti, RBC, BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Famous alligator. Born in Mississippi in 1936, he was brought to the Berlin Zoological Garden, where he was visited and reportedly enjoyed by Adolf Hitler. Survived the 1943 bombing of the aquarium building, being one of only 96 survivors out of Berlin Zoo's 16,000 animals. Was discovered by British soldiers in 1946, who handed him over to the Red Army, which transported him to Moscow and brought him to live at the Moscow Zoo. — UnladenSwallow (talk) 12:49, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Great.BabbaQ (talk) 10:53, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And BBC has now covered. --Masem (t) 15:54, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Death and misery have plagued gators for way longer than humans. Natural, routine part of life for everyone. Anyway, nobody here seems desperate, and dead wartime reptiles are dreary (this one was also old, older than Jerry or Ravi, as old as Ashley or Adolfo, bit Ken's junior). InedibleHulk (talk) 17:00, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Hana Kimura

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Stale, unimproved. Stephen 00:04, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Hana Kimura (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Japanese pro wrestler and reality TV contesant. Apparent suicide, aged 22. An editor has done good work on it but could do with a tidy up from someone who knows about the sport. I've just semi-protected it because of BLP issues. Black Kite (talk) 11:22, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:09, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Article is still being heavily edited, consider as support when the "Championships and accomplishments" section is fully referenced JW 1961 Talk 12:34, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Refs look fine to me. Good shape for RD DrewieStewie (talk) 20:18, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Ready for RD now.BabbaQ (talk) 22:05, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: because of what is said, or not said, about her death. It seems to me that the apparent circumstances of her death deserve a better, fuller, more coherent treatment than they have so far received. I don't think reposting a final social media message, in a translation I cannot assess (but it looks poor), really cuts it. I may be being inappropriately sentimental, but I don't feel this is yet ready for RD. (And if delay meant it never appeared, then that might, IMHO, be the best thing.) -- PaulBetteridge (talk) 22:31, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I have no knowledge of the subject (so no feelings like Paul), but I also think the coverage of her death needs improvement. The rest of the article also seems to need some clean-up. Kingsif (talk) 04:49, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I didn't watch this wrestler, but know "the sport" and how its bios look here. By PW standards, this article is clean as a whistle, and even fine by WP standards. The death section doesn't say [taboo term], but still clearly relays the idea that she [redacted] herself. As with all whatevercides, details will emerge. Not as quickly and loudly as they do in the American scene, but surely enough. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:55, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and question anyone supporting an RD which has been tagged. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:18, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not seeing the issues noted above; perhaps they have been addressed. But (re: the Instagram post) if we are quoting a BLP subject through translation, the Eng version must (I think) be verbatim in the cited ref. Otherwise, WHO is claiming this is what she said? GreatCaesarsGhost 19:23, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    There are still two maintenance tags on the article, and the whole thing needs a copy edit — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:26, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not far off, but the “unencyclopedic tone” tag needs to be dealt with. P-K3 (talk)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 22

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May 22, 2020 (2020-05-22) (Friday)
Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Marion Hartzog Smoak

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Article: Marion Hartzog Smoak (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Palm Beach Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Republican pol diplomat and WWII veteran. Article appears to be in decent shape. Ad Orientem (talk) 14:43, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mory Kanté

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Article: Mory Kanté (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News; The Guardian; Al Jazeera
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 08:54, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jerry Sloan

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Article: Jerry Sloan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American basketball coach. Article seems to be free of any citation issues. pbp 15:10, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Muboshgu: All citation-needed tags seem to be resolved. pbp 23:41, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support Seems to be. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:06, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Pakistan International Airlines Flight 8303

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Article: Pakistan International Airlines Flight 8303 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A Pakistan International Airlines passenger aircraft crashes near Karachi with 107 people on board. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A Pakistan International Airlines passenger aircraft crashes near Karachi, killing all 107 people on board.
News source(s): Sky News, CBS, FlightRadar24
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Needs to evolve, obviously, and the blurb will need updating with death toll etc, but putting this here for more eyes. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:35, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • That’s confusing, because while literally every news site says that no one survived, a couple of Twitter users said there are some survivors (one individual who may have lied for popularity, and an organisation). *shrugs* I guess we’ll have to wait for the dust to settle down. RedBulbBlueBlood9911|Talk 12:26, 22 May 2020 (UTC) *sigh* no one has survived the crash. RedBulbBlueBlood9911|Talk 12:32, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

One model/actress. Also, to note the ground casualties were not fatal as it occurred during Friday prayers in poorer area, ie they were out of their houses to pray in mosque. https://www.twincities.com/2020/05/23/turbulence-warnings-before-pakistan-plane-crash-killed-97/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.250.91.226 (talk) 10:51, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ashley Cooper (tennis)

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Article: Ashley Cooper (tennis) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC News (Australia); The Washington Post / Associated Press; Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian tennis player who won 4 grand slam titles in the late 1950s. Bloom6132 (talk) 08:54, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 21

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May 21, 2020 (2020-05-21) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment
  • COVID-19 pandemic
    • The number of worldwide cases of COVID-19 surpasses five million. The United States remains the global epicenter, accounting for approximately 31% of all reported and confirmed cases in the world. (CNN)

International relations

Law and crime

May 20

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May 20, 2020 (2020-05-20) (Wednesday)
International relations
  • Afghan peace process
    • Taliban leader Hibatullah Akhundzada says his group is "committed to a landmark deal with the U.S." despite carrying out hundreds of attacks against Afghan forces since February. Akhundzada also urged the U.S. "to not afford anyone the opportunity to obstruct, delay and ultimately derail this internationally recognised bilateral agreement". (Al Jazeera)

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Adolfo Nicolás

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Article: Adolfo Nicolás (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): America magazine, Vatican News, Corriere della Sera (in Italian)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Jesuit Superior General from 2008 to 2016. Bloom6132 (talk) 19:54, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Cyclone Amphan

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Article: Cyclone Amphan (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least five deaths have been reported after Cyclone Amphan made violent landfall in eastern India and Bangladesh. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At least five deaths are reported as millions flee from Cyclone Amphan in eastern India and Bangladesh.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Cyclone Amphan forces the evacuation of over 4 million people and kills at least 17 as it impacts Bangladesh and eastern India.
News source(s): BBC, AP, Guardian, Reuters, AFP, NYT
Credits:

 Sherenk1 (talk) 17:02, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Margaret Maughan

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Article: Margaret Maughan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [6]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Updated as much as sources allow for Joseph2302 (talk) 15:49, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Shad Gaspard

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Article: Shad Gaspard (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/entertainment/shad-gaspard-wwe-body-found-trnd/index.html
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former professional wrestler with WWE, body went missing on May 17 in a publicized rip current incident in Marina Del Ray, body was discovered early this morning PST. DrewieStewie (talk) 15:36, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 19

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May 19, 2020 (2020-05-19) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Ken Nightingall (Pink Shorts Boom Guy)

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Article: Ken Nightingall (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Part of 1978's Oscar and BAFTA-awarded sound team, and internet icon. Death announced May 21; also taking DYK suggestions since he was interesting and the RD's seem to be quickly going stale Kingsif (talk) 18:48, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Edenville Dam break

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WP:NAC: Good faith nomination, but at 13–8 against posting after almost 30 hours of discussion, consensus to post will likely not emerge. —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:09, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Edenville Dam (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the United States, the Edenville Dam bursts resulting in thousands of evacuations and widespread flooding. (Post)
News source(s): [7], [8], [9], [10], AP
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: We've posted other dam failures, this is fairly unusual. Making headlines. Article is better than our average disaster stub. LaserLegs (talk) 16:39, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
One, depending on who & circumstances.
Your proposed blurb needs a period at its end. – Sca (talk) 17:34, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Big news in the "Wolverine State" (altho wolverines died out there long ago), but nowhere else in the U.S.. – Sca (talk) 18:12, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but that fomulaic 'America' whin(g)e is getting rather shopworn. – Sca (talk) 13:39, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As are your poorly formulated small text comments. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:41, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Now, now.... – Sca (talk) 14:21, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Americans, unlike a good chunk of the world for which these sorts of disasters would be more devastating, can procure and get reimbursement from property and casualty insurance.--WaltCip (talk) 12:39, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This is being described as a "500 year event", and is notable enough to be in CNN and NYTimes. As for if it's even in the top 5000 news stories, it absolutely is: [11] this story has 170k views, surrounded by videos that get a few hundred / a few thousand views. I'd argue the fact that this is in a first world country makes it more notable - the idea being "how does a first world country let a dam fail"? Merlinsorca 13:54, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I said top 5000 of the year not on YouTube today. After all, if this gets nearly 7 billion views, I don't think it's a good gauge of what's particularly notable or encyclopedic. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:33, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I counted the most popular videos on that channel, and at 172k views, this video uploaded yesterday would already be #360 most popular, rivaling many year-old videos. Even if you don't use YT as a statistic, the Wikipedia article pageviews of this dam break rival those of the Cyclone Amphan, which was posted: [12] versus [13]. I am merely disputing the argument this isn't a "top X00 or X000" news story; which is something you can't say for certain. Merlinsorca 16:47, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. "Thousands of evacuations" sounds impressive until you realize that Cyclone Amphan resulted in 4 million. Has this made headlines outside the US? I haven't seen evidence of it. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:04, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The cyclone is in the box now, we can have multiple stories in the box. "headlines outside the US" is of course unnecessary, and we have a please do not "oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive." above but even though you've elected not to comprehend those basic guidelines, "international" sources were provided in the nomination which you've obviously not read. --LaserLegs (talk) 16:33, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Aleksandra Kornhauser Frazer

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Article: Aleksandra Kornhauser Frazer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [14]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A prominent Slovenian scientist. Death reported today. Tone 11:21, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support: biographically satisfactory, and sourced adequately. I would prefer it if the (I assume) erroneous "US Protection Agency" were fixed (presumably EPA, but I couldn't access the source). Also, while the fact that her name is "Kornhauser Frazer" is irrelevant to a scientist's biography, I would have been interested in an explanation. --PaulBetteridge (talk) 08:00, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
She was married twice and kept both surnames. Makes sense to add to the article. --Tone 08:34, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks; I have modified the EPA link, having translated the source -- PaulBetteridge (talk) 13:37, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Deadlink addressed. The death was reported on the 19th, I think it is enough - for a prominent person, the report is likely within the couple of days at most. I will check if a better source appears. --Tone 12:39, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Annie Glenn

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Article: Annie Glenn (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Cincinnati Enquirer, AP, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 14:32, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ravi Zacharias

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Article: Ravi Zacharias (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Disrn
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A prominent evangelical Christian apologist died today after a bout of terminal cancer of the sacrum. Good Article status. 142.184.186.174 (talk) 13:55, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: It seems churlish to oppose a GA, so I won't; but the assessment was done some time ago. The article is mostly ok, but there were 3 areas that I thought might deserve more attention/review before posting: the passage describing his education and qualifications, since this appears to have been a matter of controversy; the coverage of the sexting allegation, which does not seem to have reliable sources; and the coverage of his final illness, which I feel could, now he has died, be cut back to the two cited facts (he became ill, he died). --PaulBetteridge (talk) 16:21, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I improved the referencing and cleaned up the final illness coverage. SpencerT•C 04:55, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, much improved, thank you. No reason not to Support. PaulBetteridge (talk) 07:01, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose - The first section is entirely sourced to autobiographies, and the first half of the next section is as well part from a couple of bio-profiles from a religious conference that he was a keynote speaker at. Nowhere near enough proper/indept refs Bumbubookworm (talk) 03:46, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Is it important that "early life and education" is sourced to published autobiographies? Our knowledge of most people's childhoods come from themselves, either directly or indirectly, and is generally uncontroversial; if we were to take a stand on childhood information coming from secondary sources, then we'd have to remove the "early life" sections from most articles on people, including two articles currently in the RD section right now. I will grant that the "career" section could use a few more secondary sources. NorthernFalcon (talk) 06:31, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Your point is generally valid. But for this person, his use of titles associated with formal education ("Dr.") has been controversial. And early life here includes his conversion experience, which, in my limited knowledge of him, appears to be an aspect of his life that he used to define himself (unsurprisingly.) So I think it is appropriate to consider applying a stricter test here than we might elsewhere --PaulBetteridge (talk) 07:20, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I worked through the article and re-sourced to reliable non-primary sources, including in the early life and education section. SpencerT•C 04:51, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Referencing situation improved; appropriate depth of coverage. SpencerT•C 04:51, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support- Significantly leading figure in Christian community, Christian apologetics.Samuelled (talk) 07:25, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 02:52, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 18

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May 18, 2020 (2020-05-18) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Leonard Levitt

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Article: Leonard Levitt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times; Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Investigative journalist and author whose article led to the investigation into the Murder of Martha Moxley being reopened. Bloom6132 (talk) 04:40, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Marko Elsner

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Article: Marko Elsner (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [15]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Prominent Slovenian football player, played international for Slovenia and Yugoslavia. Tone 14:48, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2020 East Africa floods

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Article: 2020 East Africa floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Flash floods in Somalia kill 24 people and displace 400,000 others. (Post)
News source(s): CTV News
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Major natural disaster that has affect nearly a million people. Seems like a worthy story. Expected to rival last year's flooding (500k displaced) with added effects of disease spreading. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 00:31, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support in principle but the article structure is only impact and no background, with a clarification tag to boot. Consider this a support once quality issues are dealt with and the article is beefed up. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 00:40, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's an annual rainy season. The only source in the article is a single website, Floodlist.com, which does nothing but list floods. The main page for that site reports that, right now, there are floods in Algeria, Ecuador, Sri Lanka, Philippines and the USA. Even that site doesn't have the East Africa floods listed as news on its main page. If you look at a more general news source such as BBC News' Africa page, it says nothing about this. In other words, this is fairly routine weather. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose the hook is for "flash floods" that killed 24, but the article is about a season that's been going on for months and there isn't a paragraph of prose about the flash flood which killed 24 in Somalia. Also largely agree with Andrew, but I would overlook the lack of significance for a decent article. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:22, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for ITN any article which has only one source. Jim Michael (talk) 15:59, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regretful oppose. The topic is noteworthy, but the article quality is too poor. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:42, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support. News sources are covering the event in sufficient depth, so the significance threshold has been met. The article could use some expansion, but there's enough content there that is references that I think it's sufficient for posting. That should not be a sign that anyone who is so inclined should not improve it as described above, it could certainly get a lot better, and there's lots of good notes above for improving the article. --Jayron32 17:50, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This unfortuntely appears to be stale. This was news around May 8-10 (several reports that I see then) after several weeks, with reports from at least BBC and Al Jazeera. (which the WP article is lacking, and in fact would fail on quality being linked to a single source) The floods appear to be mostly over at this point. --Masem (t) 18:00, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle, but oppose on quality. Article needs a wider variety of sources. NorthernFalcon (talk) 22:34, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ken Osmond

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Article: Ken Osmond (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: aka Eddie Haskell from Leave it to Beaver. Article seems almost there but I see a few places that need sources. Masem (t) 19:52, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Michel Piccoli

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Stale. SpencerT•C 18:26, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Michel Piccoli (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hollywood Reporter
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: French stage and screen actor with 60+ year career : Contempt, Belle de Jour. Hektor (talk) 03:45, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now, as the quality of the article is not good enough at the moment, especially not for an actor of his stature as one of the leading character actors of France. Sadly, I have not the time for some improvements, but I'm willing to change my opinion any time if the article is improved. --Clibenfoart (talk) 15:07, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now needing a lot of content and refs. His French page may be useful as a model. Anyway, as soon as it's improved and seeing his great acting career, it would seem fair to me that he was in RD. Alsoriano97 (talk) 19:25, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 17

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May 17, 2020 (2020-05-17) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) RD: Monique Mercure

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Article: Monique Mercure (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CTV News, Montreal Gazette, CBC Radio Canada (in French)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian stage and screen actress with 60+ year career. Bloom6132 (talk) 02:09, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Du Wei

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Article: Du Wei (diplomat) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Chinese ambassador to Israel, formerly to Ukraine, found dead in his apartment. Brand new article, date of death is given as May 16 in article, May 17 in infobox. (No idea in re UTC.) 73.81.116.138 (talk) 19:32, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ann Katharine Mitchell

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Article: Ann Katharine Mitchell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Bletchley Park codebreaker. Died on 11 May, announced today. A couple of citations needed, but I'll sort these shortly, unless I’m beaten to it. SchroCat (talk) 19:05, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: COVID-19 pandemic

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WP:NAC: Good faith nomination, but it's clear that moving COVID from the banner to the ongoing section will not gain consensus. Closing per WP:SNOW. Modest Genius talk 14:54, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: COVID-19 pandemic (talk · history · tag) and COVID-19 pandemic by country and territory (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Time to pull the banner LaserLegs (talk) 11:58, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are nine articles linked from the gigantic COVID-19 banner sitting in the box. Of them

  • Disease - is getting stale, with most updates being ref improvements or content tweaks
  • Virus - is getting stale, with most updates being ref improvements or content tweaks
  • Testing - is getting stale, with most updates being ref improvements or content tweaks
  • Timeline - is a list
  • By Location - is ok, has a paragraph of prose per region, links to see also, has decent maps and graphs
  • Impact - is a list
  • Notable Deaths - is a list
  • Portal - is a Wiki portal, not mainspace content

There is no denying that COVID-19 is still the major global story, and it belongs on the main page. The thing is, many of the articles we're linking to are crap and would never get featured on their own. So I'm proposing we pull the banner, and bump COVID-19 back into ongoing, something like: Ongoing COVID-19 pandemic (by country).

Yes the main article is huge, but it's in pretty good shape, and has links to all the stuff that's in the banner now. I would also support a blurb for some major milestone like the rollout of a vaccine or one of the top infected countries being declared COVID-19 free or something. --LaserLegs (talk) 11:58, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose - I have to oppose at this time. We are in the middle of this pandemic. The banner should stay. I don’t see a scenario anytime soon that would make removing the banner appropriate.BabbaQ (talk) 12:07, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The pandemic is expected to last for years and we need to move on at some point. Ongoing seems a reasonable place for this now and this can be supplemented with particular items such as the recent reliable Roche test announcement, which are currently getting buried. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:23, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Wikipedia is an important source of information at a time where fake-news and misinformation is rampant. Wikipedia has a responsibility to highlight coverage of this information and make it easily accessible to the public. Aeonx (talk) 12:55, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose so fix it springs to mind. We're still in the first wave for many many countries across the globe now, and while this virus may still be highly problematic for years to come, this is still 70% of the mainstream news. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:58, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Covid-19 is far and away the No. 1 story globally and probably will remain so for quite some time, according to health officials. The fact that everyone's tired of hearing about it is immaterial. Suggest snow. – Sca (talk) 13:56, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There will be a point that we transition from banner to ongoing but the fact that most of the first-world countries are still feeling its effects and the news dominated by its coverage means that it still deserves special attention. The problem is that here are so many facets to the pandemic that at this point that there's no singular dominating worldwide story but instead country-level stories (arguably the US's handling of it being the worst but we're not going to give this higher weight over any other country) that this banner approach is presently the best method of that coverage. --Masem (t) 13:17, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - the pandemic is still at full swing in many countries like India, USA and so on. An alternative would be to put a single page listing all relevant pages (which will be weird, so it will never be used). RedBulbBlueBlood9911 (talk) 13:43, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose. The COVID-19 pandemic is still the dominant, overriding, transformative and defining element in the life of humanity as a whole. Until and unless that changes, the pandemic merits a separate ITN banner. Nsk92 (talk) 13:54, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question this is obviously toast, but y'all did realize this proposal was to feature the decent articles in "ongoing" instead of keeping the gigantic banner of mediocre articles right? --LaserLegs (talk) 14:47, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I answered that in my response. And to utilise an argument oft posited by Andrew Davidson, the main pandemic page is getting more than 100k hits per day so it's clearly of interest to our readers, why would we remove it? Have we seen any reader complaints about quality? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:51, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 16

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May 16, 2020 (2020-05-16) (Saturday)
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International relations

Law and crime

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(Posted) RD: Tony Yates

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Article: Tony Yates (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Cincinnati Enquirer
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Won two national championships playing basketball at the University of Cincinnati, where he was later their head coach. —Bagumba (talk) 15:44, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Pulled; Closed) White storks hatch in the UK

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WP:NAC: Good faith nomination, where consensus prior to posting was leaning slightly in favour. However, the arguments after posting have been one-way traffic, and it is apparent that consensus to re-post will not emerge. —Bloom6132 (talk) 05:40, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: White stork (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Wild white storks (pictured) breed in the UK for the first time since 1416 (Post)
News source(s): Guardian; CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: ITN seems to give undue weight to death. As this bird is a symbol of birth, this is a fitting way to redress the balance Andrew🐉(talk) 12:18, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm admittedly involved as I supported this, but this is WP:NOTAVOTE. 331dot (talk) 02:00, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Far more excitement than substance to this story. This isn't a threatened species, and it isn't being introduced to a particularly significant part of its range; the species exists across a substantial chunk of Eurasia and Africa. As far as conservation impact goes, this is a triviality. Vanamonde (Talk) 02:02, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose even leaving aside the fact that it's a LC species, why should it hatching in the UK matter? That's just one country out of the couple hundred in the world. Banedon (talk) 02:09, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sadly, consensus to (re)post this is not going to develop. It's for someone to close the discussion. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:25, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Hossein Kazempour Ardebili

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Article: Hossein Kazempour Ardebili ‎ (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, Bloomberg News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 HaEr48 (talk) 02:42, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Europe Shine a Light

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Good faith nomination, however consensus to post will not develop. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:13, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Eurovision: Europe Shine a Light (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In place of the Eurovision Song Contest 2020, 45 nations around the world broadcast the musical celebration Eurovision: Europe Shine a Light live from Media Park Hilversum in the Netherlands (pictured), as the original venue has become a COVID-19 field hospital. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In place of the Eurovision Song Contest 2020, 45 nations around the world broadcast the musical celebration Eurovision: Europe Shine a Light live from Media Park Hilversum in the Netherlands (pictured).
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Some happy news; Eurovision Song Contest is ITN/R, and this took its 2020 place. Alt blurb doesn't mention COVID-19. Kingsif (talk) 23:01, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see a big difference. Like how it was broadcast live in 45 countries across three continents, rather than one or two countries. And it is part of an annual event that's been running for over 60 years, rather than made up in the last few months. It's a lot more significant than 'American students graduate online'. Kingsif (talk) 00:27, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In terms of news? No, it's not. If nothing else, at least this 'virtual event', unlike all the others, is something that a lot of the world took part in. Kingsif (talk) 00:32, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
BabbaQ Please point out where "Eurovision Shine A Light" is on the ITNR list. 331dot (talk) 13:02, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Julio Anguita

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Article: Julio Anguita (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Vanguardia, El País
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Great Spanish politician, appreciated by many. Page needs some improving and a lot of references. Working on it. Alsoriano97 (talk), 10:44, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 15

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May 15, 2020 (2020-05-15) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Stale) RD: Lynn Shelton

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Article: Lynn Shelton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: US film-maker. Died 15 May, news released on 16 May. Article needs work. Black Kite (talk) 01:57, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Super-Duper Missile

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Withdrawn/Closed. – Ammarpad (talk) 10:10, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Super-Duper Missile (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The United States announces the development of the Super-Duper Missile, a hypersonic weapon. (Post)
News source(s): The Hill, Newsweek, CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: The American announcement marks the first confirmation a hypersonic weapon with capabilities significantly beyond previously publicly announced missile systems. It has received significant media coverage. Chetsford (talk) 00:50, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hell no Not only on the Trump rhetoric (both ways) but that this is a claim and not a demonstrated actual technology advancement. --Masem (t) 00:54, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • As a comment, Newsweek is no longer considered a reliable source for WP. Not that other sources don't exist for this story, just that you should really avoid using Newsweek for anything nowadays. --Masem (t) 00:55, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I think the news here is the announcement, not the purported existence of the device which — as you correctly note — is unprovable. (Indeed, demonstrations of all classified military technology are usually unprovable as they are not tested in front of third-party observers, moving and still images are invariably official products, and technical details are not published in places that would permit peer review.) For all we know the missile doesn't exist at all. However, we can factually state that the "United States announced". In my opinion, the announcement is the newsworthy event in the same way the announcement by the DPRK of the Kwangmyŏngsŏng-3 Unit 2 launch was a newsworthy event, not the launch itself which could not be proved to have occurred beyond official claims by either the DPRK or U.S. military at the time we featured it ITN (IIRC). Chetsford (talk) 01:06, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - entertaining title but we need more info on this before the article's quality will be where it needs to be. Trump says a lot of things. Merlinsorca 03:00, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose better suited to the fun section. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 06:44, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The US military has been silent on this, this is just Trump rhetoric and he likely spilled the beans early. Wait until a weapons test is performed or the weapon is made operational. 331dot (talk) 08:15, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • "The US military has been silent on this" According to the article, the head of the US military announced it yesterday. If Tim Cook announces a new iPhone I don't think we generally wait for the Associate Brand Manager to sign-off before we can definitively say Apple announced a new iPhone. That said, however, I think your suggestion that this would be better to hold for operationalization is a good one, in view of which I withdraw the nomination. Chetsford (talk) 08:55, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Ezio Bosso

edit
Article: Ezio Bosso (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Repubblica + many in German
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Popular classical pianist, composer, conductor - I expanded a bit, but there's room for more based on WP:it (all works, many refs) Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:45, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ernie Gonzalez

edit
Article: Ernie Gonzalez (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press, NBC Sports, PGA Tour
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Third left-handed player to win a PGA Tour event. Bloom6132 (talk) 19:55, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Astrid Kirchherr

edit
Article: Astrid Kirchherr (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News, The Guardian, Rolling Stone
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German photographer and artist known for her association with the Beatles, died 12 May 2020. Article is GA status. —Matthew - (talk) 22:49, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Phil May

edit
Article: Phil May (singer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British rock singer. Article is now sourced and adequate, though I'm looking to expand it further. Black Kite (talk) 21:53, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Claes Borgström

edit
Article: Claes Borgström (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [17]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 BabbaQ (talk) 18:47, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Fred Willard

edit
Article: Fred Willard (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 WMSR (talk) 19:14, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 14

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May 14, 2020 (2020-05-14) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture
  • The Vatican announces that Pope Francis is sending a donation to Lebanon for 400 scholarships in an expression of his concern for the country’s young people. Lebanon is experiencing a “severe crisis” that is robbing younger generations of hope. (Catholic News Agency)

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Bob Watson

edit
Article: Bob Watson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Bob Watson, Baseball’s First Black General Manager, Dies at 74, NYT
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Major League Baseball's first black general manager. Led my Yankees to the 1996 World Series championship. The page is not ready, but it's my Wikiproject for today. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:17, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Pepper Rodgers

edit
Article: Pepper Rodgers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Washington Post, Los Angeles Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American football player who starred and later coached at Georgia Tech. Also coached professionally in the USFL and CFL, was an executive in the NFL. —Bagumba (talk) 17:08, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 13

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May 13, 2020 (2020-05-13) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Gabriel Bacquier

edit
Article: Gabriel Bacquier (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Décès de Gabriel Bacquier, baryton français de légende et bête de scène / Le Figaro
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Legendary French baritone, also as an actor, recordings are a Who's who? of great singers and conductors - article was decent, I only added references, - wish I'd read French because the obit begins fine, - anybody welcome to add from it and many others Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:47, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 12

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May 12, 2020 (2020-05-12) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Richard Gilder

edit
Article: Richard Gilder (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times,
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 22:27, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Renato Corti

edit
Article: Renato Corti (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Avvenire.it (in Italian)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Italian Cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church, Bishop of Novara and Roman Curia posts. JW 1961 Talk 22:08, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: S. David Freeman

edit
Article: S. David Freeman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Los Angeles Times, The Washington Post, The Sacramento Bee
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former exec of the three largest public utilities in the US. Bloom6132 (talk) 17:53, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Renée Claude

edit
Article: Renée Claude (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Radio Canada
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian actress and singer. Needs one or two citations. COVID-19 related. TJMSmith (talk) 16:58, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Carolyn Reidy

edit
Article: Carolyn Reidy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: US business executive TJMSmith (talk) 16:38, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 11

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May 11, 2020 (2020-05-11) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) RD: Jerry Stiller

edit
Article: Jerry Stiller (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: US actor and comedian, father of Ben Stiller. Article has unsourced sections. Black Kite (talk) 12:30, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The main page currently links to CD-ROM and Price_war, both of which are far worse off in regard to sources. I don't understand the argument that we shouldn't memorialize a significant figure just because the article is not perfect when almost no articles are perfect and we already link to articles that are far worse off. We are not promoting the article, but rather the news event, which is the figure's death. ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia talk 20:12, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That is entirely incorrect - we are here to promote the article. We are not here to promote the news event or memorialize a significant figure. GreatCaesarsGhost 20:41, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Bold links on the main page, or in the case of those we list for Recent Deaths, are the pages that must show examples of WP's best possible work. Unsourced -ology tables are absolutely not WP's best work. I know how "important" Jerry Stiller was to get him up on RD ASAP, but we don't rush for poor quality. --Masem (t) 20:44, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, Masem, I shouldn't let my personal opinions cloud my judgement. I still think it's a shame. But Great Caesar, I disagree - what is the point of 'in the news' if not to highlight current events? Surely articles should be sufficient, but it is not the quality of the articles we are attracting attention to. But I guess this is immaterial to this discussion. Best to all ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia talk 21:11, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As we've repeated several times, ITN is not a news ticket, it is to highlight quality articles that happen to be in the news. For new news items, that generally reflects how fast they can be worked up to quality coverage, but for RDs that means the article should be mostly sourced and complete as a basic BLP requirement. --Masem (t) 22:03, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 10

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May 10, 2020 (2020-05-10) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: John Teerlinck

edit
Article: John Teerlinck (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sports Illustrated, National Post / Reuters, NBC Sports
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Legendary NFL defensive line coach Bloom6132 (talk) 21:31, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Iranian support vessel Konarak

edit
Article: Iranian support vessel Konarak (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Iranian Navy vessel Konarak is struck by a missile during a training exercise, killing 19 sailors. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Reuters, AP, AFP
Credits:

Nominator's comments: New article. Unusual incident - Dumelow (talk) 13:56, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Because it's interesting, and very little is happening on ITN. Abductive (reasoning) 20:16, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, we don't shift standards because times are slow. That's a bogus argument. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:22, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, it is your argument that is bogus. It is not stated in WP:In_the_news#Criteria, people here make that argument all the time, and it leads to items getting posted. I urge you to retract your notvote and your incorrect statement. Abductive (reasoning) 23:29, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with TRM.--WaltCip (talk) 00:17, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's not stated because its a rule of thumb, one we felt not necessary to document. It is absolutely inappropriate to chew TRM out here, however, for that. --Masem (t) 01:22, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's okay Masem, that's hardly being "chewed out", it's cute of Abductive to suggest that we undermine our standards but we all know that's not going to happen! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:36, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And yet it got posted. Consequently, the imaginary rule is still imaginary. Abductive (reasoning) 08:45, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Reading comprehension?
    • Point of order Kingsif - at 06:32, the article had six sources. Please do not make false claims in order to oppose a nomination. Mjroots (talk) 09:29, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Actually @Mjroots: It had three sources (at the time, refs 4, 5, and 6) about this incident, which if you read my comment you'd clearly see I was referring to. I wasn't making false claims, I'd appreciate if you didn't make false accusations that could seriously harm my reputation. Kingsif (talk) 16:28, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • For there to be refs 4, 5, and 6, there needs to be refs 1, 2, and 3. Like I said, six separate sources were in use at the time in question. Mjroots (talk) 17:28, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • Like I said, I was referring to the update on this story having only 3 refs. It's not difficult. Kingsif (talk) 18:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            • That doesn’t make much sense, seeing as how the article didn’t exist before this story and all six sources were published after the incident.P-K3 (talk) 18:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
              • Collapsed since this is getting long, is tangential, and it's already been posted. But how does it not make sense? The section in the article about this had three sources. That is all I said, and it's correct. Continue to debate semantics or misinterpretations if you will, but there's nothing up for debate about saying "the incident was covered on Wikipedia by only three sources", so I don't know why MJ continues to not acknowledge they misread my comment, or why P-K3 has jumped in with 'I don't get it'. Kingsif (talk) 21:21, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
                • Since you asked, you said, "for which the article can only scrape three sources", implying that editors of the article could only find three sources about the incident. In fact, all six sources in the article were about the incident. The fact that only three were specifically being used in the "2020 friendly fire incident" section does not mean only three were available. You were being misleading.-- P-K3 (talk) 21:58, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's what they all say. – Sca (talk) 15:10, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I didn't oppose that one, so you'd have to ask someone who did. Also, the fact that we did the wrong thing in the past does not mean we are bound to do the wrong thing going forward forever. Precedence is a synonym for "repeating mistakes". Let's just try to do the right thing every time instead of cherry picking the wrong things that were done to justify continued wrongness. --Jayron32 14:31, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    So you are saying going forward we should continue to post these types of stories.--WaltCip (talk) 14:33, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @WaltCip:: I am saying that, going forward, we should continue to post stories that meet the standards I noted above. I am saying no more and no less than that. "types of stories" is a meaningless concept as far as I am concerned. Coverage by reliable, legitimate media and quality Wikipedia content are the only meter sticks that can be applied equitably. "Types" of stories is just about what I am interested in. Coverage and quality is about what reliable sources are interested in. Good Wikipedia content is only built on one of those. --Jayron32 15:36, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - is making an article about the vessel more appropriate than one about the incident? And while I don’t believe a slow ITN warrants lax criteria, I think this event is serious enough on its own (maybe because I personally never hear about military training accidents?) (though the article will need to be expanded if possible in my opinion). RedBulbBlueBlood9911 (talk) 12:48, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull per my aforementioned rationale. I don't believe the fact we're in a COVID-19-dominated news cycle makes this story more important.--WaltCip (talk) 14:30, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - like others I reject the idea that we should change our standards for stories just because coronavirus is dominating the headlines, but actually I think we most likely would have posted this anyway, even under "normal" circumstances. It's an unusual incident, and it resulted in more deaths than Kobe Bryant's helicopter crash, so I personally think it's fine.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:51, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-Posting Support There is no bar on military accidents at ITN, though I am prepared to accept a somewhat higher bar. In this case, the loss of life as well as severe damage to naval ship justifies the posting. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:42, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Hari Vasudevan

edit
Article: Hari Vasudevan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hindu
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Notable Indian scholar who died on 10 May 2020 from COVID. DTM (talk) 05:46, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Article currently reads as an obit; it contains only a lede and a Life section. Suggest breaking it up into multiple sections: Early life, Academic career, Personal life (for example). The sources are much more effusive about his accomplishments than the current article, and those (perhaps in a Recognition and awards section) would help establish subject's notability more clearly.130.233.2.42 (talk) 08:18, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Betty Wright

edit
Article: Betty Wright (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times, The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 20:26, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Pavle Jovanovic (bobsledder)

edit
Article: Pavle Jovanovic (bobsledder) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): here there
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Olympic Bobsledder on two teams.

Comment What you say as a criticism has some truth to it. But I am the main editor of the article, and it was not my choice. Rather, it was the essential and unavoidable distillation of the available sources that I could find. Like it or not, the doping controversy is the axle upon which the wheel of his life turns. The article is now expanded far beyond what it was two days ago.
Like a sculptor, I did not impose my will upon the stone; I found the form buried within.
If you can find more and diverse sources, please add them.
The article is well developed and amply sourced. Every jot and title has a source. Now.
And above all, he is recently deceased.
  • Comment Recognizing that this is the best article that could be written about the subject given coverage in RSs; I don't think it is fair to the subject, on a personal level, to post his BLP to such a prominent venue when the vast majority of it concerns personal and professional troubles. If there is more to the story about commercial nutritional supplements being contaminated with banned substances (lightly touched on in the Doping controversy section), that could be expanded in a separate section and perhaps give some perspective. If the current state I have to agree with TRM above.130.233.2.42 (talk) 08:11, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment I was not proposing a blurb, only a redirect. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 23:54, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Too much UNDUE emphasis on controversy. Either distill to a paragraph or expand the rest of his career section. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 17:54, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've expanded the career section. I added an overview and explanation of the controversy in a different section. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:46, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Bagumba I heard your observation that: "more direct quotes than I'd like to see." To try to address your issue, I removed more quotes. The article has been rewritten and copy edited. The number of quotes is clearly justified and IMO fully within policy. Of course I have no way of knowing what your personal standard might be. Please revisit this. Thank you. Cheers. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:19, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 9

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May 9, 2020 (2020-05-09) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Law and crime

Sports

(Posted) RD: Kristina Lugn

edit
Article: Kristina Lugn (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [19]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: One of Sweden’s best known poets. Also member of Swedish Academy who picks the Nobel litterature prize winner. --BabbaQ (talk) 16:15, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted to RD, Closed) RD/Blurb: Little Richard

edit
The world has moved on and there is no consensus for a blurb. Stephen 23:06, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Little Richard (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ American singer-songwriter Little Richard (pictured) dies at the age of 87. (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone, The Guardian, AP
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: American singer-songwriter and musician. (UPDATE: Blurb added to reflect ongoing debate on adding one. --Sunshineisles2 (talk) 20:17, 9 May 2020 (UTC)) Article still needs some sourcing work done. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 14:16, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for RD. Solid, detailed article about a high-profile individual. Granted that it's not perfect, but perfection should not be the standard. An article of this prominence and length is always going to reflect some work-in-progress, and there's a tradeoff between timeliness and ensuring a citation for every sentence fragment. The 99 IP's suggestion that the article is too long to be posted is simply perverse. A blurb would not be out of the question, but I doubt it will reach consensus. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:14, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Now ready for RD.BabbaQ (talk) 16:31, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support (RD only) – Even though at 6,500 words it's seriously overwritten, presumably by fervid fans. – Sca (talk) 16:33, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - 6,500 words seems reasonable for one of the most important and influential musicians of the 20th century. 2A00:23C5:5082:6101:E058:759C:BD04:5F9B (talk) 16:46, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Preceding comment is the sole contribution to Wikipedia from this IP address. – Sca (talk) 21:54, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So what? You don’t know that, anyway. They may have a dynamic IP. In any case, we should encourage new users to participate in this process. Zagalejo^^^ 22:10, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RD. Discussion on a blurb can continue if desired. 331dot (talk) 16:50, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post posting Oppose. This is 90% of a great article, but; there are a number of sections where it isn't clear what cites support what, or if they do. Also, there are significant uncited sections; the whole section from "Penniman's show would stop several times that night..." to "Befriending Alan Freed..." has no cites. Ditto the first half of the first para of "Return to secular music". The last very long para of that section doesn't see a cite appear until half way through it. In the "Comeback" section, everything from "That same year..." to "...and Solomon Burke" is uncited. "Relationships and family" contains details of his only marriage - no sources for the actual marriage dates etc. Black Kite (talk) 17:04, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • If you're noticing sections that need citations, please remember to put that citation tag in the article itself. That would help to focus others' efforts to work on the article. -- Zanimum (talk) 17:10, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment - Agreed - If there are still aspects of this article that some users feel need citation impovement, please leave appropriate tags at the appropriate points in the article and I (and I'm sure others) will be happy to assist with resolving. KConWiki (talk) 19:37, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb as well - One of the most influential popular music figures of the 20th century. Length doesn't seem disproportionate for someone who can be mentioned in the same breath as Lead Belly and Elvis, and 'too much information' hardly seems a fatal flaw.- Featous (talk) 18:50, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb in principle sure as hell meets the Prince/Bowie standard. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 19:27, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb I think his influence on pop music justifies it. Blythwood (talk) 21:23, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb – Retired; natural causses at age 87. – Sca (talk) 21:54, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb when the article is ready. R.I.P. -SusanLesch (talk) 21:59, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Article is ready. No citations needed! -SusanLesch (talk) 22:39, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is why there is little benefit in promoting the RD listing to a blurb, the potential gain is almost nonexistent. Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS but an encyclopedia, so encyclopedic content should be prioritized. The orange banner seems to have been added post-posting, I see it is being addressed on the talk page. - Indefensible (talk) 18:19, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Head on over to WT:ITN if you have a proposal, otherwise my subjective criteria are as valid as anyone else's. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:52, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb - I oppose the notion that Little Richard's role in the founding of Rock n Roll is only honorific. If Chuck Berry got in, then Little Richard should as well. Awsomaw (talk) 17:45, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Standard The Thatcher/Mandela standard seems unclear because they were both politicians and so it's difficult to translate that to other fields. But one way of doing it is to consider their rating as vital. Thatcher is rated level 4 while Mandela is rated level 3 and so it seems that level 4 is good enough. The relevant section for that is Rock which lists following individuals: John Lennon; Chuck Berry; David Bowie; Eric Clapton; Bob Dylan; Jimi Hendrix; Buddy Holly; Janis Joplin; Little Richard; Elvis Presley. So we see that Little Richard is ranked as equivalent to both Thatcher and other rock stars that have been blurbed such as Bowie and Berry. He therefore passes the standard. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:01, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • That is a reasonable line of logic, however the fact that US presidents including Bill Clinton and Donald Trump are currently rated as level 5 shows that level 4 cannot be used as the threshold, else it would imply that Little Richard should be posted but President Trump would not be in the case of his death. The simplest approach may be to change the rule so that no individual deaths are blurbed, as that is what RD is for. - Indefensible (talk) 20:04, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Perhaps the line of logic should only be applied to those who are well past their heyday. The argument obviously falls apart with exceptions like people who are still very relevant like Trump, or still the in public's conscience, like Bill. But when considering these historically influential people like Chuck Berry and Little Richard, I don't see any reason to abandon this valid line of logic. Awsomaw (talk) 20:26, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • What does "well past their heyday" actually mean? That does not fundamentally address the ambiguity currently in the rules, and also it makes the difference between level 4 and level 5 significant. Is Chuck Berry or Little Richard really more significant or impactful than Bill Clinton or Donald Trump? That seems rather contentious. The vital ratings would need to be re-evaluated, which would probably be a very political and drawn out process. There should be minimal (or ideally no) exceptions, and the clearest and most unbiased rule would be to simply keep all individual deaths in RD and out of the blurbs. - Indefensible (talk) 21:15, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • FWIW I've documented my version of the Thatcher/Mandela standard but since the criteria for significance is highly subjective discussing a standard, or a lack thereof, or denigrating those who cite their own version of one is basically a complete waste of time. If y'all feel otherwise, WT:ITN is over here. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:44, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb - If Chuck Berry gets a blurb, Little Richard should get one as well... Seems obvious to me. Jusdafax (talk) 19:07, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb not notable enough for a blurb. Banedon (talk) 23:55, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb The standard for artists is whether they died during their career, or the height of it, or whether they are household names, or so on. I can't see that here. Being the originator of a whole genre of music is his best angle for a blurb. That's debatable. What about Chuck Berry, or many other contemporaies?130.233.3.78 (talk) 06:23, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb. Truth to tell, I haven't heard of this guy before. And while that may say more about my ignorance than anything else, it seems fairly clear from the level of coverage and from the comments above, that he is not in the Mandela/Thatcher category.  — Amakuru (talk) 07:09, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 8

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May 8, 2020 (2020-05-08) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections
  • The Supreme Court of Malawi rejects a bid from President Peter Mutharika and upholds a lower court ruling that annulled last year's elections, paving the way for a new election that will be held on July 2. (Al Jazeera)

(Posted) RD: Andre Harrell

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Article: Andre Harrell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times, The Guardian, ABC News, The Independent
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Key music exec for hip-hop and R&B. Died the night of May 8, but only reported on May 9. Bloom6132 (talk) 19:22, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Aurangabad railway accident

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Article: 2020 Aurangabad railway accident (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Maharashtra, India, at least 16 people are killed in a train accident. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, NYT
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Unusual event with significant no. of deaths that's in the news. Something other than coronavirus in this slow-news period. Guy in the Mall (talk) 07:37, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Reactions section is a bulleted list of sentences. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:47, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's the norm for "reactions". The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:12, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Bulleted international leader reactions with flags, yes, but straight sentences are normally paragraphs. InedibleHulk (talk) 10:36, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Roy Horn

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Article: Siegfried & Roy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Las Vegas Review-Journal, BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Juxlos (talk) 03:00, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

One half of entertainer duo, which I believe falls under the RD note #2: "Individuals who do not have their own article but who have significant coverage on an article about a group (e.g. one member of a musical group) are eligible for a recent deaths entry on a case-by-case basis". Died on May 8, but only reported on May 9 (UTC). —Bloom6132 (talk) 03:16, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I considered nominating this, but passed on it because he didn't have his own article. Wasn't aware of that second note, good catch. Btw, on the subject of time, it's still May 8 in Nevada for whatever that's worth. Nohomersryan (talk) 03:02, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Nohomersryan: I think ITN runs on UTC (which is already on the next day). —Bloom6132 (talk) 03:04, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • It should be based on the time zone of where the person died, but here, its quibbling, not a major issue. And to be clear: for articles where it is the pairing/very small group is notable but not necessary the individuals -- but we have enough of a bio of each individuals -- then this is proper for doing the RD to nominate the group. --Masem (t) 04:08, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support article in good shape, sufficient coverage of death, updated. Weird coincidence about the double nom and double revert but guess that happens. Juxlos (talk) 03:06, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps Juxlos should get nominator credit and Bloom6132 can get updater credit? The article is being very actively edited right now though and there are a bunch of cn tags (particularly on the Filmography section). - Indefensible (talk) 03:07, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Byron Mallott

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Article: Byron Mallott (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): adn
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Close to ready, but a few stray sources needed. Nohomersryan (talk) 22:45, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Nohomersryan: Hey I have some free time so can you tell me what places need more info? I have Newspapers.com so I can easily find stuff about his fifty year political career. - Jon698 talk 23:06 8 May 2020
@Jon698: Thanks for the comment. I think the last paragraph in "early life" is the only one that strikes me as particularly undersourced at the moment, and my search for info on it was fruitless. (Also, some of the preceded by/succeeded by names in the infobox aren't substantiated elsewhere.) Nohomersryan (talk) 23:10, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Nohomersryan: - Support Now I have gone through most of the page and reformatted it. I have added multiple references to back up the claims in the article and removed any information that I couldn't find sources for. Jon698 talk 00:19 9 May 2020
Tremendous work, this should be ready to post pending a lookover by someone else. Nohomersryan (talk) 00:28, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mike Storen

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Article: Mike Storen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press, The New York Times / Reuters, ESPN, United Press International
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Key US sports exec. Died on May 7, but only reported on May 8 (UTC). Bloom6132 (talk) 12:23, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 7

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May 7, 2020 (2020-05-07) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Ty

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Article: Ty (rapper) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: UK Mercury Prize-nominated rapper. COVID-19, aged 47. Article is a bit stubby and needs some work. Now expanded and sourced. Black Kite (talk) 02:24, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - Article has few issues (puffery in the first sentence of the career section, no awards (can someone check if this person has received any awards?)). Otherwise, looks good enough. But regarding notability, I can’t take sides given that I am not really into music personalities... RedBulbBlueBlood9911 (talk) 06:29, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Chrystelle Trump Bond

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Article: Chrystelle Trump Bond (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Baltimore Sun/Legacy
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American dancer, choreographer, dance historian, and author. Died on May 6, but only reported in The Baltimore Sun on May 8. TJMSmith (talk) 02:06, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Bridgegate convictions overturned

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It's snowing. --Jayron32 19:58, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Fort_Lee_lane_closure_scandal (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Supreme Court unanimously reverses Bridgegate convictions (Post)
News source(s): FoxNewsCNN NY Times
Credits:
 Sir Joseph (talk) 15:13, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose not updated. --LaserLegs (talk) 15:27, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Still opposed, a once sentence update will not suffice. This was a SCOTUS decision, they write a book detailing their decision, and it's possible to write a summary. It's important to note, for example, if SCOTUS found they were wrongfully convicted in a miscarriage of justice or if they're rightist criminal scum who weaseled out of prison on a technicality. --LaserLegs (talk) 15:46, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • What difference does it make what the possible spin is? As it is, there is a link to the SCOTUS decision in the article. TL;DR: the relevant statutes concern money and/or property loss, and SCOTUS felt that any such losses were too indirect. (PS: article was updated at 15:07, just not in the lead) 73.81.116.0 (talk) 16:05, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support article is sufficiently updated. Please do not #2 "oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive." --LaserLegs (talk) 19:36, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Legal case revolving around a minor political scandal with no real significance outside of domestic US politics. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:52, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Ad Orientem, to be fair, it wasn't that minor, Christie was on track to be a major candidate for President, and this was in the news 24/7 when this occurred. Sir Joseph (talk) 15:58, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It was never more than a minor scandal blown up by the press. Every country in the world has politics, and every country has scandals. For obvious reasons we don't cover 99%. We have even generally steered clear of Trump's scandals except for his impeachment. There is no way this rises to ITN level news worthiness unless we are going to turn ITN into a daily news blotter for the domestic scandals of every country in the world. We would need to update it hourly. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:06, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ad Orientem, I agree completely, it was a nothingburger, but it was a scandal, especially if you sat in your car on those roads. I don't care either way, I'm just glad to see something in the news that isn't coronavirus, and this is an interesting case that was resolved via audioconference and will have ramifications nationally with regards to corruption. Sir Joseph (talk) 16:11, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I sympathize with the need for fresh non-covid news stories. But this just isn't the right one. Posting it would seriously lower the bar in terms of what we accept at ITN and set a precedent that would cause a lot of problems down the road. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:16, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Or as Ben Bradlee supposedly said, "Stick it inside somewhere." – Sca (talk) 16:26, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Ji Chaozhu

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Article: Ji Chaozhu (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press, The New York Times, South China Morning Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Interpreter for Mao Zedong, Zhou Enlai, and Deng Xiaoping. Died on April 30, but only reported in The New York Times on May 5 and by the Associated Press on May 7. Bloom6132 (talk) 09:27, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Visakhapatnam gas leak

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Article: 2020 Visakhapatnam gas leak (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least eleven die and over 1,000 fall sick after a styrene gas leak (pictured) from a chemical plant in Andhra Pradesh, India. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At least eleven people die and over 1,000 are injured after a gas leak (pictured) in Andhra Pradesh, India.
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Just created, it is developing Sherenk1 (talk) 06:31, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm sorry but this event doesn't seem to be relevant worldwide. It's sad that people are affected by this accident, but I checked on Google News, and only one single news website outside of India says something about this accident, and is only a stub. I think that if one wants to consider an event to be worldwide relevant, at least it has to appear in one or two western newspapers and magazines, right? So I'm against this event to be in the portal. Humberto del Torrejón (talk) 14:56, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@LaserLegs:, have a relook.-Nizil (talk) 16:26, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Amakuru:, merged and greatly expanded now. Please reconsider. -Nizil (talk) 16:26, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe it's the search? I still can't find those myself, but the links do exist. Neutral, then, because it wouldn't naturally have found its way to me. Article good. Kingsif (talk) 16:46, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's one of the quirks of "In the news" - it's taken literally so if you deep search for reprinted wire stories you can claim wider coverage than something is receiving. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Uhhh, I guess if you call doing a Google News search and finding hundreds of articles about it from around the world a "deep search", you're absolutely spot on LaserLegs!! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 18:48, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm glad we agree TRM! --LaserLegs (talk) 18:55, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  Posted. El_C 20:10, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 6

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May 6, 2020 (2020-05-06) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Norbert Balatsch

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Article: Norbert Balatsch (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Bayreuth Festival
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Chorus director of the Vienna State Opera and the Bayreuth Festival 1972 to 1999, Grammy awards - had a miserable unreferenced stub for an article. Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:52, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Michael McClure

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Now stale. Black Kite (talk) 19:11, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Michael McClure (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): San Francisco Chronicle
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American poet who was one of the last living members of the Beat Generation. He wrote more than 20 plays and musicals, several television documentaries, and the song “Mercedes Benz,” which was made famous by singer Janis Joplin. 99.203.20.128 (talk) 19:26, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Comment just needs a few references in the latter half of the section 'the beard' and a couple of cn's left in other sections Joseywales1961 (talk) 21:07, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Nearest black hole

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Article: QV Telescopii (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Astronomers announce the discovery of the nearest known black hole to Earth. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Astronomers announce the discovery of first black hole located in a visible stellar system.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Astronomers announce the discovery of first visible stellar system containing a black hole.
News source(s): Science Magazine
Credits:

Nominator's comments: A very fascinating piece of astronomy news; the previous closest was about three times the distance and discovered in 1917 according to List of nearest black holes. EternalNomad (talk) 17:43, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Tentative oppose per the Wikipedia article, it's an unknown companion that's only hypothesized to be a black hole. Once more confirmation/consensus that it's a black hole is obtained I'd be willing to reconsider. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 17:51, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose The nearest black hole is in our Milky Way which makes the question rather moot. Brandmeistertalk 18:32, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose the article isn't referenced, and per Modest Genius, why assume our readers know the difference between a "supermassive" black hole and a "standard" black hole? The blurb needs context and succinct clarity. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 21:51, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Think this may be more appropriate for DYK. - Indefensible (talk) 02:27, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment What does it matter if a reader is unaware of the difference between "ordinary" and "supermassive" black holes? Brandmeister had an inaccurate understanding of the news, MG added context suggesting what B might have been thinking of, but all in all, neither assertion is relevant. And it's not our job to evaluate the science or take the scientists' cautious tentative language at face value. News media has picked up on this story (search for "naked eye black hole"; in addition to the usual science news websites, I got links to CBS and The Guardian). They are, unsurprisingly, reporting the discovery as a done deal. What perhaps makes this most interesting, as the title of the primary article makes clear, is that this triple star system (two ordinary stars and one black hole) is visible (magnitude 5.3) to the naked eye! 73.81.116.65 (talk) 03:05, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I don't see why not, and if a reader is unaware of the difference between "ordinary" and "supermassive" black holes then so much the better - they would learn something by clicking on the link. Banedon (talk) 04:15, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The original blurb is a snoozefest. The fact that it's 3 times closer than the previous one is a factoid. The real news is that this is the first black hole identified in one of the ~10k star systems visible t the naked, unaided eye. The star system itself is somewhere around the 2000th brightest ones in the night sky, but visible only from the Southern Hemisphere. 2601:602:9200:1310:D4BA:105B:E9C2:D237 (talk) 06:21, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with some slightly less technical writing in article I opened that article and basically hit with numbers and symbols. We need at least a paragraph, not necessary lede but enough that is written one level down from where it currently is (eg assume high school education) to explain the importance of this in those terms. Otherwise it is science noise to most but those few in the astrophysics field. --Masem (t) 06:30, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Article was a mess, so I dug a bit into it. Should be a much easier read now. 2601:602:9200:1310:D4BA:105B:E9C2:D237 (talk) 07:21, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Florian Schneider

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Article: Florian Schneider (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC Billboard
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Founder of Kraftwerk. Died in April apparently, only reported today. Article needs a bit of work. Pretty much cited now, I think. Black Kite (talk) 16:19, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

German Wiki article says he died at the beginning of May (Anfang Mai 2020 starb Schneider im Alter von 73). – Sca (talk) 17:15, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nice solution of saying "after... " Great work. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 17:34, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
German article doesn't follow the source, unless I'm missing something; Hutter said "a few days after his 73rd birthday" (which was on 7 April). Black Kite (talk) 17:39, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There does seem to be some confusion about when he died. NYT, like some other English & German media, quotes a statement from the band as saying he "died just a few days" after his birthday, April 7. Others, such as the Süddeutsche Zeitung (Munich), simply avoid saying exactly when he died. (German Wiki still says "at the bginning of May.") – Sca (talk) 18:08, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
PS: I suppose "just a few days" could be a manner of speaking – in order to emphasize he died soon after the birthday. - ?? – Sca (talk) 18:13, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ger. WP lead says at the end of April (Ende April 2020). – Sca (talk) 22:34, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Murder hornets

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Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 05:07, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Asian giant hornet (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Asian giant hornets, dubbed "murder hornets", are sighted in the U.S. state of Washington. (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
 pbp 23:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Aye, not a crime when animals do it. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:09, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I don't see much significance to this, and suspect it's only being amplified in a tongue-in-cheek "2020 is truly out to get us!" way. If these bad boys wind up stinging me to death in the near future, I will posthumously reconsider. Nohomersryan (talk) 00:31, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Leaning oppose unless there's a major infestation of them nationwide. Otherwise this leans being overly Americentric and of insufficient importance (especially per Nohomersryan). – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 00:34, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's so awful it's funny. Murder hornets. But no, wait until they kill lots of people or the ecosystem. Kingsif (talk) 01:10, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What if they just kill all the bees? InedibleHulk (talk) 01:40, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Manchester will take its revenge? Kingsif (talk) 01:44, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That sounds fair. We'll know more in July, anyway. Just a bunch of sapsucking queens out there for now, even in the worst case scenario. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:57, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) European Economy

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This hasn't happened yet and consensus won't develop to post. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:45, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Coronavirus recession (talk · history · tag) and COVID-19 pandemic in Europe (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Eurozone economy will contract by a record 7.7% with inflation virtually disappearing according to the European Commission. (Post)
News source(s): https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-economy/euro-zone-set-for-record-recession-inflation-to-vanish-commission-idUSKBN22I151
Credits:
Nominator's comments: important for future of european and global economies Jwmoschetto (talk) 12:32, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment before the "oppose we have a banner" rains down on this: I want to support it. The Trumpcession is a huge deal that'll have an impact well beyond the end of the quarantine. US GDP contracted by 4.9% in 2020 Q1 which is substantial as well. The thing is, the blurb doesn't have a bold link, and Coronavirus_recession is too proseline-y and has some referencing issues. --LaserLegs (talk) 13:31, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – This is a forecast, not a fact. – Sca (talk) 13:34, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Agreed with Sca.--WaltCip (talk) 14:05, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Sca. And this is already covered by Impact section of the special banner. – Ammarpad (talk) 14:07, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as it is only a forecast, not an actual result. (impacts of global warming is probably the only type of news we post on forecasts) --Masem (t) 14:39, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This sounds really boring. Not 'I don't like it', but 'this will not be on the news tonight' boring. Kingsif (talk) 16:28, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per all. Once the rest of the banner is taken down we can post a story on the economic aftermath. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 17:47, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Just about every country that locked down is going to have a recession. Multiple predictions of how deep those are going to be have been published, many by respected economic organisations. I don't see any reason to pick out one particular prediction for just the eurozone. It's highly uncertain anyway, as no-one knows how long the pandemic is going to last or what the end game state will look like. Maybe we can post something on what is bound to be a global recession once there's some hard data on how bad it is, not just a prediction for part of it. Modest Genius talk 17:57, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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May 5

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May 5, 2020 (2020-05-05) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

(Stale) RD: Didi Kempot

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Now stale. Black Kite (talk) 19:11, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Didi Kempot (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Jakarta Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Indonesian singer-songwriter. Article is sourced. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 07:37, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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(Stale) RD: Kiing Shooter

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Now stale. Black Kite (talk) 19:11, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Kiing Shooter (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Complex
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American rapper from Queens, NYC. COVID-19 death (aged 24). TJMSmith (talk) 12:51, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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(Posted) RD: Sweet Pea Atkinson

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Article: Sweet Pea Atkinson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Billboard
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American R&B singer known as one of the vocalists for the band Was (Not Was) TJMSmith (talk) 12:29, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Millie Small

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Article: Millie Small (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News, Jamaica Observer, The Independent, The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 10:00, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) ABS-CBN Off-Air

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Article: ABS-CBN (TV network) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Philippine National Telecommunications Commission orders ABS-CBN, the Philippines' largest broadcast network, to go off-air. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ ABS-CBN, the largest television network in the Philippines and a critic of President Rodrigo Duterte, is ordered off-the-air by the National Telecommunications Commission.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Philippine National Telecommunications Commission orders ABS-CBN, the Philippines' largest broadcast network, to go off-air after its operating franchise has expired.
Alternative blurb III: ​ In the Philippines, television network ABS-CBN is controversially ordered to cease and desist by the Philippine National Telecommunications Commission.
News source(s): BBC, New York Times
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Closure of an entire national news source in a country. 2600:1702:4360:1E10:F5AD:D0DF:80A:E793 (talk) 04:40, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support – Significant news, and well covered in the article. HiLo48 (talk) 04:53, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality, the target article needs referencing improvement before it meets the frontpage guidelines. - Indefensible (talk) 05:12, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle - iff reliable sources are linking this to Duterte mention that in the blurb as well. I am agnostic towards quality at the moment. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 05:24, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The article seems to be in good condition, and the event is well covered in multiple sections. The article has 77 references, which on cursory review are suitably used. If improvements are necessary, plaase CN or section tag. Oppose linking this to the President in the blurb. Neither the article nor sources make such a direct statement.130.233.2.224 (talk) 06:00, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • NYTimes is very clear the action is pretty much retribution from their criticism of Duterte, and our article is well sourced that this was basically expected. --Masem (t) 06:54, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The NY Times article in the nom does not make that clear. It documents an antipathy between the President and the media generally, muddies the waters by bringing up a direct confrontation between the President and a third party (Rappler), before finally admitting that it was the Philippine House of Representatives and the telecommunication committee (that is, not the President) that failed to renew the broadcast license. The NYT articles claims that the House is stacked with allies of the President, but that doesn't make their actions his.130.233.2.224 (talk) 07:50, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's not currently suggested that it was his unilateral decision to make, but it doesn't take much to connect the dots especially given what you have said about the composition of the House.--WaltCip (talk) 12:04, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) COVID-19 drug development

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Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 05:08, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: COVID-19 drug development (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Human trials for an experimental vaccine for COVID-19 begin in the United States. Pharmaceutical company Pfizer and BioNTech lead the way; the vaccine could be ready by September. (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

Article: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/health/pfizer-vaccine-coronavirus.html Blurb: Human trials for an experimental vaccine for [COVID-19] begin in the United States. Pharmaceutical company [Pfizer] and BioNTech lead the way; the vaccine could be ready by September. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Worldofarbitrage (talk • contribs) 01:51, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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(Closed) COVID-19 pandemic in the United States

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Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 05:09, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: COVID-19 pandemic in the United States (talk · history · tag) and US Politics (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Director of BARDA, Dr. Rick Bright, alleges in a whistleblower complaint he was assigned to a lower role because he resisted pressure to endorse Hydroxychloroquine as a COVID-19 remedy. This comes amid increased criticism of the federal response in the United States. (Post)
News source(s): https://apnews.com/68ff635c752d056a3f6242fa555b163b
Credits:
Nominator's comments: significant event in US politics; impacts next election; first whistleblower account relating to COVID-19 response Jwmoschetto (talk) 03:34, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Uppercase P. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:13, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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May 4

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(Posted) RD: Garba Nadama

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Dave Greenfield

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Template:ITN candidate

(Stale) RD: Don Shula

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

  • Support blurb as soon as the article is updated. Sports legend and I mean legend.--WaltCip (talk) 16:43, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose article quality is sorely lacking, especially in regards to references. If and when that is fixed, I would support RD only: neither the manner of his death nor the reactions to it are particularly unusual, so do not need to be explained in a blurb. Because a blurb adds no relevant information to the posting, RD is sufficient. --Jayron32 17:01, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment support when updated, would consider discussing a blurb - the best coach in NFL history probably counts as 'top of his field', but it might be too small a field. Kingsif (talk) 17:06, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No blurb too small a field per Kingsif, nowhere near Thatcher/Mandela (EDIT: or Prince/Bowie/etc.) territory. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 17:25, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Thatcher/Mandela standard is utterly stupid. There are other multiple blurb-worthy deaths that aren't confined to politics, nor should the standard be "world leaders get blurbs only". The sports world is going to step back and catch a breath from this. There will likely be tributes for days or weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if, when (heaven forbid) Stephen King passes away, for example, he ends up getting a blurb.--WaltCip (talk) 18:50, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The "Thatcher/Mandela" standard doesn't apply only to politics. You can call it the "Thatcher/Bowie" standard or the "Mandela/Prince" standard if you like. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:27, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Due to lack of clarity about what the standard is (and the fact there isn't any written guideline about this in ITN), it is erroneously and frequently applied to politics by virtue of the standard including two world leaders within its name. Whatever you call it, it's a bugbear of this section of Wikipedia.--WaltCip (talk) 19:33, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with what Muboshgu said, and tried to clarify it on the ITN/RD stage. Regardless of what specifically the "threshold" is, Shula still doesn't pass it IMO. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 20:40, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No blurb Legendary coach, but not so newsworthy a death that he needs a blurb. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:31, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. When most reliable sources refer to a person as "legendary", that crosses the threshold in my mind (and it helps that the main page is stale.) -- Tavix (talk) 17:44, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Niche or not, this is exceedingly rare. The last time the career wins leader died was 1983, and I'd give even money we don't see Shula surpassed ever. GreatCaesarsGhost 19:16, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note I still oppose a blurb (if the article is ever improved), but insofar as we might have one, please make sure that the blurb makes it self-evident why it is worth noting beyond the mere fact that he died... "All time winningest NFL coach..." or some similar phrasing should be in there or there really is no point for it. --Jayron32 20:21, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object blurb - List_of_Super_Bowl_head_coaches#Coaches_with_multiple_Super_Bowl_appearances tells us that in the time that the Super Bowl has been around (54 yrs) four coaches have won it 3 or more times, Shula has won it 2 times, equal with many other coaches (9). Given that the purpose of competitive sport is to win trophies, not just games, why is he more important than the others given that the field is quite narrow - Basically only one top-tier league in the world? Bumbubookworm (talk) 22:44, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is not the place to determine the criteria for sports notability. He is just that notable. Pure and simple. WaltCip (talk) 23:04, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Super Bowl championships are but one way to assess how great a player or coach is/was. Shula's best quarterback, Dan Marino, didn't win any Super Bowls, but is still one of the game's all time greats. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:20, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well in sports, a great player could be in a weak team/country so it is not possible to win even if they were a great player. But the coach has a lot more power to mould the team, so they are judged by winning rather than individual stats/records, and the primary means of winning would be winning titles, unless the coach was famous for some kind of tactical or technical innovations Bumbubookworm (talk) 23:28, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fair point. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:51, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Ab

Pulitzer Prizes

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Comment Noting that the Pulitzers are not an ITNR (probably because there's no principle "top" category"). This does not mean we can't post them. --Masem (t) 01:58, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – The prose in the lead needs expansion with some highlights. For example, how the NYTimes won in three categories and pointing out who won some of the highly coveted categories like Feature Writing, Investigative Reporting, and Breaking News Reporting. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 03:00, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The postponement was only 2 weeks, not worth mentioning. Stephen 06:05, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Article isn't good enough. No commentary, indeed hardly any prose, 24 references and every single one is primary. Black Kite (talk) 09:06, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The prizes are restricted to US citizens and organisations and are handed out every year. And notice how the NYT is listed as a source when it won three of the prizes. So, it seems too parochial, routine and self-congratulatory. The 501 kg deadlift story seems better – that's more novel and objective, a world record and open to anyone. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:30, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • We don't necessary restrict ITN awards to those limited to a certain country as long as those are recognized as top of the field (eg Oscars aren't strictly American but the field is dominated by American films). But your latter points are likely why we've not posted the Pulitzers before. --Masem (t) 14:06, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Quality is poor. Most of the table text are verbatim quotes from the Pulitzer committee (I presume) and all of the sources are primary. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:55, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 3

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2020 May 3 Template:Cob

(Stale) RD: Roy Lester

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

Template:Ab

Attempted naval attack on Venezuela

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Oppose – Article is vague about when this reported event or series of events took place. Murky. – Sca (talk) 14:07, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose in it's current state the article is 80% "background" this time drawing connections to past "incidents" which have not been formally connected, while being sure to include POV quotes like "Maduro dictatorship". Even the title is POV, using the name given by the terrorists instead of a neutral "2020 Venezuelan naval attack". The flag salad "reactions" section will fill in soon, and since those sections are basically worthless I don't care how much prose you put in there. The arrest of two Americans is interesting, if this was state sanctioned and the attack section itself built out then it'd be an obvious candidate, or even a lone wolf terrorist attack if fleshed out adequately and the anti-Maduro hysteria toned down, this would be suitable for the main page. --LaserLegs (talk) 15:51, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping Now updated somewhat. Kingsif (talk) 17:44, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping Better. The section about the Resolute is irrelevant unless an actual connection can be drawn between the two. Drop it, and Guaidó's bellyaching at the bottom of the attack section and I'll support. Seems notable, and it's in the news -- I just can't support WP:COATRACKs. --LaserLegs (talk) 13:22, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I did remove those parts (checks article) - they've been added back, I'll have to take it to talk. Kingsif (talk) 15:00, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Clearly is one of the two most over-used words in the English language. – Sca (talk) 13:49, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • While I hear that 'an attempt to attack Venezuela fails' seems like an almost-event, something clearly happened, and really, does "eight defected Venezuelan soldiers are killed when an American leads them into a poorly thought-out insurrection" read better? ETA: Imagine if 300 people genuinely tried to attack the US at, say, Boston, and the US Navy killed eight of them. It would already be in the box. (Similar to the prison massacre below: 49 prisoners were shot by guards, but it's only got three comments.) Sure, these are much more likely to happen in Venezuela than the US, but are still not normal occurrences. Kingsif (talk) 23:53, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Here is the difference. The United States is a first world fairly stable superpower. And without trying to be snarky; Venezuela... is none of those. It's a bit like mass shootings. Unless it is exceptionally bloody, we don't usually post them if they occur in America because we expect it. It's part of the culture and it is sadly fairly commonplace. Political violence in Venezuela is the same. This is a failed state, partially run by an organized crime syndicate masquerading as a far left enlightened republican government. There isn't even any consensus on who the legitimate president is. And the nation has been on the brink of open civil war for years. What happened here is par for the course in those conditions. There is no comparison to something like that happening in the United States. Most Americans would not blink at a mass shooting killing a dozen people. But if it happened at the British Museum in London I'd support posting it the instant article quality was up to scratch. A bungled mercenary op in Venezuela is just not ITN worthy. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:13, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
AO, I know it was a late ETA, but did you read my last sentence? So March was the first month for a decade without a school shooting in the US. Attempted attacks in Venezuela are nowhere near that common. Once a year since 2015 does not 'normal' make. Too much gets written off as 'the country is a shithole, bad things happen', but not every bad thing is normal in every bad place. Merc attacks in the Middle East, normal. Gang wars in Venezuela, normal. But reverse them? (ETA: Note that I generally vote to post anything that kills more than 10 people, feel free to remind me what countries this is inappropriate for) Kingsif (talk) 01:01, 6 May 2020 (UTC)Struck and shrunk: this sounds a bit attack-y, and I must have forgotten ITN's collaborative spirit when I wrote it. I stand by the not-normal statement, but this isn't for fighting over. Kingsif (talk) 01:41, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You think we can go one week without comparing something to "mass shootings in America"? I've had about enough of it, thanks. --LaserLegs (talk) 13:25, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand this oppose reason. A group of foreigners attempt to effect regime change and it's "par for the course"? I'd like to see some examples in recent history (say the past 5 years), then. Banedon (talk) 06:50, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per AO. His follow-up explanation is insightful.--WaltCip (talk) 12:05, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • What a bizarre incident. If this really had been a 'mercenary army', as claimed in the blurb, it would certainly be worth posting. However it turns out to be two boats containing 60 paramilitary personnel, of which only half reached the shore. Hardly the Bay of Pigs invasion. I do think this should appear on the Main Page, but DYK would be a better venue than ITN. The article is new enough and long enough; it would just require addressing the orange-level tag. Modest Genius talk 16:02, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks MG, I'll take it there if this is closed/falls off :) There seems to have an edit scuffle about mercenary/militant terminology, if you want to take any views on that to the talk page, input's always appreciated. Changed blurb to 'militants' here, if that helps. Kingsif (talk) 16:49, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Still seems rather murky and meandering to me. – Sca (talk) 17:02, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: Not sure of my opinion as the article's creator, but I initially withheld my opinion until the events developed some more. The article seems to be of sufficient quality and notability for inclusion now.----ZiaLater (talk) 16:23, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The opposes might consider taking another look. The Guaidó "government" essentially hired a firm to carry out this botched attack -- it's a pretty big deal. "Rendón signed a retainer agreement in Washington, D.C. on behalf of the Guaidó government with Silvercorp on 16 October 2019 of a retainer payment of $1.5 million USD within five days to Silvercorp in order to initiate Project Resolution Operation, a plan to remove Maduro, install Guaidó as president of Venezuela and to provide security operations following the transition of government, with Rendón later stating "[Guaidó] was saying all options were on the table, and under the table"" Template:Ping --LaserLegs (talk) 10:33, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    No thanks. It's a bizarre curiosity more than a piece of news which I would expect to see in a yearly round-up of everything newsworthy enough for an encyclopedia. Could easily fit in another part of the main page. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:03, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Mercenaries hired by one side of a power struggle between two competing governments in a failed state? Sorry, that's not ITN material. If this had been a CIA op I'd reconsider. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:46, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Eugene Kostyra

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Template:ITN candidate

May 2

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2020 May 2 Template:Cob

(Posted) RD: Jim Cross

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Idir

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Oppose for now entire "Early life and career" section is unreferenced. Also, is that illustration really needed in an article when a photo is available? Juxlos (talk) 12:17, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson sets new deadlift world record

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

Template:Abot

(Stale) RD: Arif Wazir

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

  • Oppose Biography is lacking detail. He was born in 1982, but the earliest detail about his life is dated 2007. Then there is a decade-long gap until the next event. The article needs a few lines to bridge these gaps. Hrodvarsson (talk) 22:47, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose Template:Tq ought to be more directly cited. Otherwise consider this a support. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 03:02, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Needs to be more comprehensive. At the moment it appears to be more an article about the assassination than it is a biography. P-K3 (talk) 11:52, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I am reading a BLP of a politician who has never been elected, and whose party is not in the Assembly of Pakistan as either the government or opposition, now or ever. Then, it turns into a proseline crime blotter recitation, before finally ending on the only event that garnered international attention - his assassination. In addition to the article concerns above, this does not read like a biography and even if it did it might well be a BLP1E. At the very least more biographical details are needed.130.233.2.144 (talk) 13:28, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Ab

May 1

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2020 May 1 Template:Cob

Guanare prison riot

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Support due to the high death toll and international response (including the UN High Commissioner, the OAS and Amnesty Interntional). I think it should also be mentioned that one of the possible causes of the prison riots was the suspension of visits, declared because of the ongoing pandemic. --Jamez42 (talk) 21:22, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose in the last 7 days in the CE portal there are three prison riots: this one, one in Peru and one in Brazil. This article is very thin on details: no cause, no timeline, no demands, no restoration of authority, none of it. There is a LOT of filler though: background, some complaining about the government, and the usual flag salad. The box us uber stale at this point, but championing another poor quality orphan disaster stub isn't the way to freshen it up. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:37, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • You're free to help tighten up the Template:Tq (that is neither an orphan nor a stub, to say nothing of quality). I've not rewritten much from the Spanish Wikipedia article, I've been reviewing other articles instead, so if you want to help out, we'd appreciate it. Kingsif (talk) 22:40, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I couldn't easily find the Brazil riot mentioned above, but the Peru riot had fewer casualties and no article. The casualty count here is high and the international reactions suggest clear notability. However, the article does not give sufficient information about the riot. Most of the prose is background, reactions, theories and so forth. Also, the more shocking details have been sourced from the BBC and Guardian. I am fully prepared to believe that Venezuelan prisons are inhumanely overcrowded, guards withhold food and dead prisoners are buried in mass graves before informing next-of-kin, but I would like to see such from a source not based in the country with a long-standing animosity towards the subject.130.233.2.144 (talk) 13:08, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Those details are in the Venezuelan sources, too (and the UK is not the US when it comes to Venezuela) - the highest RS English language sources are used to source them per English Wikipedia preferences. Kingsif (talk) 17:02, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Sam Lloyd

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Template:ITN candidate
Thank you for your contribution. WaltCip (talk) 14:46, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Likewise, mon ami. – Sca (talk) 16:48, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2020 Nova Scotia attacks

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Template:ITN candidate

Cool, so can we rotate in a Trudeau pic since Canada is at the top of the stack again? --LaserLegs (talk) 17:12, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This isn't related to Trudeau. If there's no pic then just leave as is.  — Amakuru (talk) 18:06, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
More related to him than this rampage, he's mentioned getting around to this for months now, but the pandemic stalled it. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:06, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Canada already had fairly restrictive gun laws, certainly when compared to the United States. The significance justifies mention in the article on the shooting and in any article relating to gun laws in Canada. But again, this is not even close to enough to justify making the blurb essentially about Canada's firearms laws. Ridiculous. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:52, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that answers the question really. Other than NZ, are there any other recent examples of "legislative responses to mass shootings"? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:00, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
California and Nevada have both tightened their laws following high profile shootings. California was already among the most restrictive states with respect to guns. Nevada has generally been more libertarian. The Feds moved to ban so called bump stocks after the Las Vegas shooting. Beyond that and NZ I am not aware of any. But then again mass shootings outside of the US are not altogether common. Which is one of the reasons we posted on the shooting. But a country with already restrictive gun laws making them more so does not meet my standards for ITN. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:07, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, thanks. So a couple of progressive US states made minor modifications. This appears to be a national legislative change almost immediately after the event. Regardless of the fact that mass shootings are commonplace in the US and not elsewhere, this is a very strong news story that a large number of our readers will be interested in, after all a lot of them will be in the US and will probably be wondering how Canada can make such an impressive change in one instant while all they get is "hopes and prayers" to make it better. It's proper news. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:14, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ah yes, Nevada, the progressive state. – Sca (talk) 00:02, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's going to take two years, not one instant. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:15, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that TRM only supported it to push his own political opinions and agenda.--SirEdimon Dimmi!!! 20:22, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What a reckless and ill-conceived comment. TRM does far more for ITN than you realize. I hope you strike it out. WaltCip (talk) 20:29, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WaltCip, I do know TRM's work. And I actually, admire his work here. But his comment was a political comment. Like, "we needed to post it to 'force' Americans to change their own laws" and not because this is ITN worth. ITN is not meant for it. Wikipedia is not meant for it.--SirEdimon Dimmi!!! 20:35, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You are all entitled to your opinions on this news story and my motivations, sure. Speculate away. I was banned from doing that for years. But hey, it never stopped anyone else doing it to me. It's not a political comment, it's simply that, when pushed, a large, strong democratic nation made a hugely important decision and it's important that such a reaction is published within ITN because that's where a lot of people will expect to see such items. I have no "political opinions and agenda" here in this case other than to reinforce that Canada suffered a terrible attack and immediately sought to rectify things. That other nations don't is pure fact. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:40, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This was not, in fact, an immediate response. This was supposed to start in March, after much planning. Now is just the perfect time to fast-track it. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:20, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Trudeau made this a campaign pledge in last year's election, at an announcement near where the 2018 Toronto shooting took place. So it was not immediate. Hrodvarsson (talk) 22:38, 2 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment: I believe this was an executive order rather than a "legislative change" (I know in Westminster systems the difference isn't as strong as it is in the US), but I might very well be mistaken in that regard. I also agree with the above that this might have been posted with rather RGWy intentions (which is admittedly speculation per TRM); it's quite wishful to think that posting this is going to change anything in American discourse (most Americans already have an opinion on the matter and are either well aware of and/or will turn a blind eye to our differences vis-a-vis the rest of the world), and the law is less significant and more justifiable than Orban's emergency powers, which we didn't post (admittedly largely due to quality issues, though with some discussion on notability). That said, while I did oppose it above, this isn't clearly not ITN material. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 02:59, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment: For those opposing, considering that nothing else is up there to replace the blurb about the original attacks (in terms of additional ITNC nominations), this should just be seen as a fair upgrade of the current blurb. At any other time without COVID dominating the news, I would likely guess that the general news that a country like Canada (which is not known for having many such attacks) bans assault weapons would not have been major news. This is a unique situation. --Masem (t) 03:03, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm not the biggest fan of granting stuff free passes due to the pandemic (see that aquatic dinosaur thing), but everything else you said is a great point. I would greatly oppose if this were a new blurb in of itself, and as said above don't care much for the reasoning behind some of the support, but as an upgrade of the original blurb it's decent enough. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 03:07, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The legislation story is not worth posting in its own right but as it's part of the whole story now, I think the current blurb is fine. – Ammarpad (talk) 06:23, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Proof once again that Canada is the home of the sane. – Sca (talk) 13:46, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We roam and ramble, we follow footsteps, while all around us, a voice is howling: "This land is made for you and me!" InedibleHulk (talk) 20:52, 3 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting suggest an alternate blurb: I am shocked that Wikipedia has accepted such a ridiculous blurb. Why ridiculous? The only thing I oppose here is the lack of quotation marks. The referenced article has taken the right approach - it put the "military-grade assault weapons" in quotation marks (...would immediately ban around 1,500 models of "military-grade assault weapons", mostly rifles.). The whole term "assault weapons" is nonsensical, it means nothing, is only used in America... It is a typical ignorant sensationalist American perversion of "assault rifle", a term with a concise meaning and a proper history. Please, use the quotation marks. As to the notability - I fully support the inclusion of this news, as it is the common truth that gun control might spark a revolution in America.--Adûnâi (talk) 01:22, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Re: the image, "Canada" could be modified to "In Canada, the Trudeau administration" or similar to replace the image of Netanyahu & Gantz attached to the older Israeli blurb. - Indefensible (talk) 03:36, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Augustine Mahiga

edit

Template:ITN candidate

Template:U, I'll go into searching for that, however, I don't know how much info there could be given he served until last year. I'll do my best. ^_^ --CoryGlee (talk) 22:06, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks CoryGlee, anything you can add there would likely be an improvement I think. Good work on the article so far. - Indefensible (talk) 22:19, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No problem Template:U, it's my duty as nominator ^_^ . Could you please check the expansion I made on his career?. There's really difficult to find news about his career as Foreign Minister, I'll keep searching, but please check. --CoryGlee (talk) 22:31, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It looks better now, thanks CoryGlee. - Indefensible (talk) 23:10, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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