Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film/Indian cinema task force/Archive 7

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News18

News18 is listed as a reliable source at WP:ICTFFAQ. At Talk:Bollywood, however, User:Gotitbro is disputing this, claiming that News18 is not a reliable source, specifically claiming that the "Buzz" section of the site is unreliable. For some reason, the user believes that the "Buzz" section is actually a "blog" and therefore unreliable, despite the site's "Buzz" section making no mention of the word "blog" anywhere. I explained to the user that News18 already has a separate Blogs section, and that the "Buzz" section is not a "blog" in any way, and that the word "buzz" is simply a reference to showbiz. But the user persistently insists that s/he feels the "Buzz" section of News18 is an "unreliable" source. It would be helpful if a third-party could comment on the reliability of News18, specifically its "Buzz" section. Maestro2016 (talk) 00:43, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Please do not make any claims on my behalf, you are free to present your own viewpoint but do not misrepresent my claims here. My contention was with this specific article (not News18) and validity of the section where it was posted, which would clearly indicate that this was posted in the section which lists things that are buzzing/trending on the internet, i.e. blog, not showbiz (you would know if you actually visited it, not to mention that there is a different showbiz/entertainment section on the website). I have already explained in length why that specific article [among others that were claiming plagiarism] does not even meet the threshold of a reliable article in length already at Talk:Bollywood#Plagiarism section, so I would advice anyone to go through that discussion beforehand. Gotitbro (talk) 01:32, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

List of highest-grossing Indian films

A casual question just to see how people generally feel before proceeding elsewhere or not: At List of highest-grossing Indian films we have films listed by language. The Baahubali films were ostensibly shot by a Telugu studio. But the same figures we have in the Telugu list appear in the Tamil list because the films were also shot in Tamil. Surely the Telugu versions performed differently than the Tamil versions, no? But they each carry the same weight in two different lists. Saaho, an ostensible Telugu-industry film, is shot in 3 languages, so as of right now it would have to be listed in three different sections. As this trend of films being shot in different languages increases, are we OK with these films, which presumably originate from specific ethnic industries, bleeding into other language lists?

For example, in the Telugu list, Baahubali: The Beginning made ₹650 crore. This probably represents what the film made across all languages and dubs, worldwide. In the Tamil list, Baahubali: The Beginning made the same amount. Is that how we should be presenting this information? Does it erroneously suggest that the Tamil version of the film made tons of money when we don't know that to be the case? If a studio decides to shoot in multiple languages, that creates a sprawl across multiple data tables that could be construed as undue emphasis on that one company's filming decisions. Saaho, having made 350 crore, would be about to kick Enthiran down a notch on the Tamil list, and is poised to boot Vishwaroopam off the top 10 completely. (Not that I place any value on Wikipedia's film ranking...)

--

TL;DR: Casual question: should we organise the List of highest-grossing Indian films by ethnic industry rather than the languages the films were shot in? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:24, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Since everything's an estimate, I am not sure if we have access to language-wise breakdown for all these films (Apparently only 5% screens have Rentrak installed, so emergence of legitimate bo figures is a long wait). It does make sense to stick to ethnic industries in most cases; many old films from Bollywood are actually Urdu, and the line between Hindi and Urdu sometimes gets blurry. A list of highest-grossing Hindi-language films adjusted for inflation apparently cannot include Sholay, since the language spoken is Hindustani/Hindi-Urdu, not plain Hindi, according to Wikipedia. DeluxeVegan (talk) 15:54, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Rob Cain

For whatever it's worth, though we haven't heard from him in a while, Rob Cain is apparently not a Forbes contributor (i.e. blogger) anymore. See here, where it says "Former Contributor". Also, his Twitter account was suspended for some reason. His numbers always seemed inflated to me, especially the Kabali stuff. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:14, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Hmm. Looks like Scott Mendelson (not him) has replaced Cain as the new film blogger on Forbes. Mendelson seems to take less interest in Indian films, but has provided US figures for Saaho. DeluxeVegan (talk) 16:30, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

@DeluxeVegan: Sorry I didn't see this earlier. I think we need to exclude these Forbes contributors. I have no idea what credentials they carry, but Cain was a highly questionable voice who seemed to produce numbers that were not consistent with the regulars. I'd be interested in feedback from some of the regulars, though. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 02:39, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Article request for 'dialogue writer'

I've seen a bit of confusion over what a writer of dialogues is compared to a screenwriter/scriptwriter. As an established profession, I suspect this may be much more common in Indian cinema and television than in the West, and could perhaps use an article or section in an appropriate article to explain it. In the West, I believe, scripts are normally written completely and then, if needed, a script doctor is called in to give the dialogue a little more 'punch'. How does the Indian system differ, and why? Is it because of language issues, with translations and dubbing? Has the sheer volume of work lead to this becoming a specialization? I feel there's some potential there, for an editor interested in taking this on. Thanks for your consideration. – Reidgreg (talk) 14:00, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Reidgreg, this may have the answer. Kailash29792 (talk) 14:07, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

@Kailash29792: Much thanks, that has informed me quite a bit. I've passed it along to other interested parties. – Reidgreg (talk) 14:28, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

AFD discussion needs language expert

The discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sanrakshan could benefit from an editor who can read Nepali. The only searches for WP:RS to date are in English. Thank you. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 06:05, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Charts for Indian Film songs

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tujhe Kitna Chahne Lage
• Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Pyaar_ki_Pungi_(2nd_nomination)

Regarding the above 2 AfDs, we seem to have a disagreement related to WP:CHART and applicability of WP:NSONG #1. Can someone guide me what charts are suitable for gauging the NSONGS for India. The last discussion was 7 years ago.

Music plus is one such chart that has a decent criteria and publishes detailed info on individual sites rank, Would like to know if this is good and if more such exist.--DBigXrayᗙ 08:14, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
Radio Mirchi also publishes its chart of top 20 songs. here that appears to me as useful in checking the song notability. --DBigXrayᗙ 11:52, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

• None of these are official charts, hence I wouldn’t suggest using either to gauge the notability of songs. The best thing you could use would be YouTube views.—NØ 05:28, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Youtube will be the worst idea. ref1, ref2. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 11:58, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

User:MaranoFan Thanks for sharing your opinion. Can you elaborate more on what you meant by official ? The Radio Mirchi site is the official site, They are one (perhaps most popular) of Indian FM radios. The reason for starting this discussion was to agree to some sort of guidelines in accordance with WP:CHART, since Indian songs dont have one. As you can see in the AfD myself and DA are in loggerheads over the chart rankings of the songs. --DBigXrayᗙ 12:47, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Bollywood (Hindi Film Industry) released 1,602 films in the year 2012, Assuming an average of 5 songs per film, gives the total number of sample space of 8000 songs, of which 5 were nominated for the best song award at the 2013 Zee Cine Award and another  14th IIFA Awards for IIFA Award for Best Male Playback Singer for the Pungi Song. IMHO this is a big achievement of the song. Although, there are no Billboards charts in India. We do know is that these 2 awards are major and notable and are selected for the entire year. IMHO being in the Nomination for the Best song award means that the song was in the top 5 songs released for the entire year, this sounds like a good example of a song topping chart (not just a week but a year.) Hence IMHO, this also merits a KEEP per WP:Nsongs criteria #1. Considering these factors I propose that We should consider these nomnations as a qualifying criteria for songs to have a separate Wikipedia article. --DBigXrayᗙ 12:15, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

I think an entrepreneur should start a type of billboard chart in India. Short of that there has to be some, at least minimal criterion, and way to judge notability if we are going to accommodate cross-wiki integration of film songs. As commented, the YouTube idea "is not a good one" as YouTube is considered generally unreliable as a source.

I am to the opinion that 1)- A "film song" with presumed independent notability must be able to stand outside the notability of the film, 2)- this still requires more than "just" a charting which would fall under multiple, reliable and independent sources per WP:NSONG, and 3)- if the sites listed above, considered "official" or not, are considered reliable and independent they would certainly qualify towards advancing notability that at the least would satisfy WP:GNG. I will assert again that I consider guidelines like WP:NSONG to work with GNG, as a specific guideline, and not seen as some separate or maybe even lower standard of acceptance.

My concern is specifically from the point of "reliable sources". Some other considerations would be if any songs from top articles (listed above) have made stand-alone status and what criteria was used. I have not looked and will be gone a few hours today but maybe others will have time to weigh in. I might add that opinion on the two articles listed above seem to be more positive than originally thought. Otr500 (talk) 17:29, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

@DBigXray: I partially agree with your "We should consider these nomnations as a qualifying criteria for songs to have a separate Wikipedia article"; only with the underlined part. The separate article should still be left on the content and page size and MOS guidelines.
Also, i do not agree with considering Radio Mirchi's chart as NCHART as Radio Mirchi is many a times media partner with many films and that's possible bias there and not independent. So is Hungama. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 10:44, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Looking for more reliable sources for Pinky Maidasani

Hi,@Fylindfotberserk: and other members, recently I have created article for WAM 2019 about Pinky Maidasani, I have searched Google where I have only access, and all the references which I found have been populated on above article, but I'm looking for more references about this above mentioned BLP article, could you please help, improve the references on that article, or point out me so I may find them. thanks JogiAsad  ^Talk 09:46, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

AfD discussion

Task force, will appreciate your input on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anveshi Jain. Coderzombie (talk) 09:46, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Reliability of Times of India BLP profiles

Time and again I come across unreliable TOI profiles used as sources. Some are blatantly wrong as far as DoBs are concerned, as in the case of Ratna Pathak Shah's profile here which list's her year of birth as 1963, making her younger than her younger sister. We had a discussion too at Talk:Udita_Goswami#Full_DoB regarding this. It is time we have a rule banning use of these profiles if we don't already. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:33, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

• • Two mistakes is too early to deprecate them, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 21:56, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

I was able to remember only two of those. I came across a lot more however, with incorrect birth places, DoBs, etc. I'd try to list them here next time I come across TOI profiles with these inaccuracies. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:08, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

I do not suggest deprecating them, Just dont take everything ToI writes as Gospel truth, specially when there are conflicting sources. On the Reliability scale as shown here, they are much closer to being reliable, with some exceptions. --DBigXrayᗙ 15:26, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Template talk:Infobox film#Indian films: How to format writing credits and music credits?

Hi all, we've been kind of tip-toeing around this issue for a while, so I thought it was time to open a larger discussion about how we should format writing credits and music credits in the infobox, given that Indian films often have a "dialogues" credit for writers, and often use the |music= parameter to indicate who wrote the film's songs, even though the field is typically intended for the film's score. Your input is encouraged at Template talk:Infobox film#Indian films: How to format writing credits and music credits?. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:51, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Proposal: INRConvert in film articles

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Result was: rejected. --Joshua Issac (talk) 18:28, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

---

The {{INRConvert}} template was banned from lists following consensus at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film/Indian cinema task force/Archive 6#PROPOSAL: The INRConvert template should be cut from various list articles, and from infoboxes after Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film/Indian cinema task force/Archive 5#Use of .7B.7BINRConvert.7D.7D_in_infobox. The main reasons were as follows:

• INRConvert without a year uses the most recent exchange rate, e.g. 2006 rupee figures are shown with a 2019 conversion to dollars, which is misleading
• INRConvert with a year shows too much clutter (equivalent to ₹600 or US$10 in 2019)

Following the discussion at Talk:Tiger Zinda Hai#Rupee to Dollar Conversion, I have developed a feature for INRConvert to address this issue by displaying just the historical exchange rate in brackets. {{INRConvert}} now has a parameter fmt that can accept historical as an argument, and when the template is also supplied a year, it will display the conversion for that year. For example, {{INRConvert|100|c|to=EUR|year=2002|fmt=historical}} outputs "₹100 crore (€21.79 million)". The use of the template need not be US-centric, as it supports XDR, USD, EUR (DEM before 1999), GBP and JPY (the Reserve Bank of India publishes average rates for these conversions in their annual statistics handbook).

I propose to reconsider the ban and permit historical conversions to be displayed in the above scenarios.

Pinging users who have participated in either discussion: Arjayay, Bonadea, Cowlibob, Cyphoidbomb, Getsnoopy, Ravenfire, Ricky81682, SpacemanSpiff, Stormy clouds, Fylindfotberserk, Kailash29792.

--Joshua Issac (talk) 23:58, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Hi @Joshua Issac:

1. I appreciate your work trying to modernise this complicated template and I really like the ability to keep the conversions true to their original values with your historical switch.
2. I honestly forgot that ancient proposal to cut it from list articles. I can't remember ever fighting that after the discussion, and the template still seems to be in wide usage today, even in the pages I initially complained about. So I would probably not dispute that restriction today.
3. The biggest pain in the arse has been in the infobox of most film articles. My personal preference for aesthetics and practical reasons would be to still exclude INRConvert from the infobox. The infobox is where most of your run-of-the-mill financial vandalism will occur, and most wikignomes such as I don't want to spend more time than necessary to correct these issues, even if it's a fraction of a second longer. It is far easier to look at a source (which is often linked in the gross) and decide that something is ₹100 crore than it is to police these figures by converting them to millions and to check whether or not the INRConvert is formatted properly. If people want to do that stuff in the body of the article, I think that's exactly where that sort of data should be. The infobox isn't a catch-all department for every detail, it's a broad summary of the most important parts, and when people talk about the "first instance" of data, that "first instance" should be in the article body, not in the Infobox or the lead, necessarily, since both exist to summarise content found elsewhere. For instance here is someone misusing the infobox to summarise content that should be indicated elsewhere in the article.

Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:48, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

I totally support this feature, though not for the reasons being proposed. Similar to Cyphoidbomb's sentiments, I think it'll be more useful in the body text of an article. I too don't support doing currency conversions in the Infobox, which seems to be somewhat of an unspoken rule on WP, regardless of the currency. However, I don't think the "crore"/"lakh" terminology should be allowed in the Infobox, which it already isn't (at least, not without numbering system conversions), which is the crux of the issue being discussed at Talk:Tiger Zinda Hai#Rupee to Dollar Conversion. Nevertheless, this feature should help clean up clutter within a lot of the article bodies. Getsnoopy (talk) 06:28, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Cyphoidbomb, this template will not make a difference for checking whether the figure is correct. All this template would add is a chosen foreign-currency amount in brackets. The main figure would still match the source exactly, without any conversion. --Joshua Issac (talk) 11:52, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Vandal 'Bhaumik Gondaliya'

This is to notify users that a vandal is currently active in Indian film related articles. Their modus operandi, to add the string "Bhaumik Gondaliya" in infobox parms of film articles, especially under "Producers" and under "Spouse" parm of Indian actress articles. See these changes by the IP. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:13, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Cyphoidbomb, Thanks for taking care of this vandal. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:28, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: Kailash brought this guy to my attention. It's a Gujarati IP-hopper. I've opened a request to set up an edit filter to prevent the addition of this name. If you see any more, please let me know what the IPs are so I can range block. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:40, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Cyphoidbomb, My first encounter with this guy was in 23rd or 24th of October. After which I opened this post. Quite active in South Indian film articles. I'm forgetting one actress' article which this IP targets almost always. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:44, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: I suspect you are talking about her. This seems to have flared up in early October to present, however, I did find an instance in 2016 at Rustom, which actually remained in the article for three years. So, it's time to put an end to it. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:49, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Cyphoidbomb, Yes.. and this one too. Was this person indeffed in the past, I mean his account.? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:54, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: I was previously unaware of any accounts being used, but since you mentioned it, I checked and indeffed Bhaumik Gondaliya and also found Munna Talukdar, who tried to create a vanity article in 2018. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:08, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Cyphoidbomb, Nice. Oh I remember another thing, apart from South Indian and Bollywood film related articles, I have seen him in Bengali film articles too. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:12, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

r Jambukiya

Came across a similar type of vandalism recently, with r Jambukiya appended after actress surnames. This too is from Gujarati IPs. See [1], [2]. Seems like the "Bhaumik Gondaliya" person. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:40, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Reliability of BookMyShow website for Box office figures

As a followup to User_talk:Nizil_Shah/Archive_10#Reliable_sources, I ask for comments on reliablity of BookMyShow for Box office figures and inclusion/exclusion at WP:ICTF#Guidelines on sources. BookMyShow is a major entertainment ticketing website in India. I think it is not authoritative source but good enough for indicative figures of box office performance IMO. -Nizil (talk) 07:38, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Their disclaimer reads:: The box office figures are derived from various sources and Bookmyshow's own research technique. The figures are approximate considering domestic collection and for general information purposes only. Accordingly, Bookmyshow does not make any claims in regards to the authenticity of the data. However, they are extensively indicative of the box office performance of the particular movie. Further Bookmyshow does not make any representations or warranties of any kind as to the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the percentage or figure of box-office collection for a particular movie or any other related information, services or images contained in the website. Bigtree does not intend to endorse or advertise any particular movie through the box-office figures and bears no risk or liability with respect to the sales of the particular movie post inclusion of the box office figures on its website. -Nizil (talk) 07:38, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb:, there is no response to this discussion. What should I do? -Nizil (talk) 05:51, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

@Nizil Shah: I would not use the source, since there is no consensus to do so. Only when a source is presumed to be suitable should we include it. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:43, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb:, yes, I understand that. What should I do when there is not response for building consensus (positive or negative outcome)? Nobody responded to the discussion request. Can you bring in the RFC or people for discussion? -Nizil (talk) 07:43, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

@Nizil Shah: You can open your own RFCs by following the directions at WP:RFC. Generally speaking: 1) Find an appropriate talk page. If you're asking about the suitability of a particular phrasing at a specific article, open the question at that article's talk page. If you're looking for wider community input about something like a reliable source, then maybe asking here might be appropriate. You can also ask at WP:RSN, but most of the people who lurk there don't have a lot of understanding about Indian sources, and that can backfire on you. 2) Ask your question in as neutral a voice as possible. "Should the phrasing 'achieved blockbuster status' be included in the article" or whatever your question is. Try not to load the question with any sort of bias. 3) Add the proper RFC template. Hope this helps a little. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 07:49, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Article Review Help

Hi @Kailash29792,

I hope, I am writing on the relevant page. Could you please help me in reviewing my article Draft:JioCinema JioCinema is an OTT platform primarily focused on Indian cinema. Reenajha07 (talk) 07:26, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Reenajha07, amazing draft. Just do two things before bringing it to the mainspace: copyedit, and double check to avoid copyright violations. This gadget can help in copyvio checking. --Kailash29792 (talk) 07:33, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Kailash29792, Thank you for quick help. As suggested, I checked the article for copyvio with the given tool, for search engine, I got this error -"An error occurred while using the search engine(Google Error: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden)" and for Use links in the page, I found little content is copied from citied source but in reality, it is close Paraphrasing (JioCinema Product & Features which cannot be changed). As per Wikipedia guidelines, this kind of close paraphrasing is acceptable. Please suggest if I still need to make any changes. -- Reenajha07 (talk) 09:14, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Reenajha07, behold: JioCinema. Kailash29792 (talk) 09:31, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Kailash29792, This article was live after your review but again showing as a draft. I didn't receive any notification for the same. Please suggest if any action is required from my side. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reenajha07 (talk • contribs) 05:23, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Reenajha07, it's been moved back to the draft space. I tried my best, looks like it wasn't enough. Please ask someone else to review.

Kailash29792, Thank You. Reenajha07 (talk) 07:15, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Fylindfotberserk & Dharmadhyaksha - Could you please review this article - Draft:JioCinema and suggest me if I need to rewrite anything. The first draft has been reviewed by Kailash29792 -- Reenajha07 (talk) 07:15, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Usage of crores vs millions in budget and gross of Indian movies

Here I am specifically talking about INR and not about conversion to USD. Basically MOS:COMMONALITY talks of using millions/billions over lakhs/crores whereas there is another WP:CONSENSUS here that states crores can be used only when a conversion is included in the infobox. And finally there is a guideline stating that conversion templates can't be used in the infobox. Also this discussion on Tiger Zinda Hai is inconclusive on the usage of crores over billions. Could someone clarify this. Thundermage117 (talk) 15:35, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Baaghi film series character names

Does anyone know anything about the Baaghi series? I'm unclear on what the main characters' names are. Here Sukhjeet04 changes two characters surnames from Choudhary to Chaturvedi. Here an IP changes character names from "Pratap Singh" to Choudhary. I'm further confused by this and this, which says Pratap Singh, but I also see Chaturvedi.[3][4] and I haven't had luck finding "Ronnie Choudhary" in the context of Baaghi. Any idea what to do here? If anyone has any idea what to do here, I'd be appreciative. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:31, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Times of India as a reference

People of this task force should be aware of this now-closed RFC about the reliability of Times of India as a reference. In my interpretation, (which any of you could clarify with closer El C), it seems that for political-based stuff TOI does not seem to be valid anymore, as they have a history of pro-government bias. But per Fowler&Fowler's argument, for non-crucial information it potentially could be used. The Option 2 was "Unclear or additional considerations apply", so please keep that in mind. I don't know that we've ever had major problems with their film financial data, but if anyone has opinions, please feel free to bring them. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:35, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

bestoftheyear.in discussion at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard

Please participate in the discussion about the reliability of bestoftheyear.in at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#bestoftheyear.in. Thanks. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:20, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

seelatest.com

Quick question: is http://www.seelatest.com a reliable source for box office figures? The specific link I'm wondering aboiut is this one to support a claim about the box office collection of Madhura Raja, in this edit. I have reverted the edit for now but am prepared to reinstate the info and source if the ICTF thinks that it is reliable. --bonadea contributions talk 10:45, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

@Bonadea: Looks like every other run-of-the-mill faceless blog to me. Their "About us" page points to their Facebook presence. Not terribly professional. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:22, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Bollylocations.com

Hi. Recently this site was used in Koi... Mil Gaya article [5] to cite locations used in the film. It looks like faceless website with original research work. So wanted to know your opinions on the reliability of this source. Warm Regards. Sid95Q (talk) 13:03, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Sid95Q, late reply, but it's showing up with a GoDaddy park page now, so I think calling it junk is pretty accurate. Ravensfire (talk) 18:16, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Biographic info websites

I'd like some thoughts on a couple of websites I've seen new editors use on Indian biographies. I'm looking at celebrityborn.com and wikibio.in and not getting good feelings about either of them. Celebrityborn explictly says here that it uses information from Wikipedia in part, plus other sources. I think this is a WP:CIRCULAR source and shouldn't be used. Wikibio has the usual disclaimer and vague hand-waving about sources, but nothing I can see that would lead me to believe this is a reliable source. If there's strong consensus that these (and other similar sites) are bad, I'd like to take them to the WP:SBL and see about having them blocked to prevent them from ever being used as sources. Thoughts? Ravensfire (talk) 18:26, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Other possible sites:

• 99uttarakhand.in
• starsunfolded.com

Basically same reasons as the others - web portals that scrape from unknown sites. Ravensfire (talk) 19:35, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

I think someone (Kuru maybe?) recently started deleting Starsunfolded as yet another scraper site. Wish there was a clean way to get these shitty sits blacklisted quicker, rather than having to argue for deprecation at RSN, which I think is the usual way to do it. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:09, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Dimple Kapadia's religion

There's a debate going on now on the Dimple Kapadia FAC. The article is being opposed by a user who did not read the article itself but opposes the nomination due to the mention of the word Hinduism, which appears in sources. Please weigh in on the issue. Shahid • ^Talk2me 11:16, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Bollywood film lists

Hi I wanted to know is it OK to use term Bollywood in these lists (Lists of Bollywood films) because earlier we had some discussions on the topics like why don't we use industry nicknames in lead section or other places (e.g [6]). Sid95Q (talk) 23:53, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

@Kailash29792:, @Cyphoidbomb:, @Ravensfire: Any comments?. Sid95Q (talk) 01:34, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Saw you comments on Talk:List_of_Bollywood_films_of_2019. So in that case don't you think English-language Indian films and Urdu language Indian films should also be included in these lists. Sid95Q (talk) 22:07, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't know what the right answer is here. Here are some thoughts:

1. Not every industry has a nickname, but even when they do, there are sometimes conflicts, like that Kollywood could refer to Tamil cinema (Kodambakkam) or Nepalese cinema (Kathmandu), or that Tollywood could be Telangana or Tollygunge. So these nicknames present some problems.
2. Bollywood is pretty well known worldwide, but I guarantee you that most would assume it is the nickname for Indian cinema in general, rather than Indian Hindi-language cinema. In those cases, we need to clarify what these nicknames mean.
3. It seems like we'd really be branching into other territories by going with lists like "Urdu-language Indian films". Does that mean any film made in India that is solely made in Urdu? How does one differentiate between Hindi and Urdu? Is this more of a political designation? What about English-language Indian film? Does this mean films natively filmed in English, or does it mean films from any industry dubbed into English?
4. In the past I've opposed some organisation of content that was related to ethno-linguistic categories like "industry"—I didn't think Baahubali should be singularly listed as a Telugu film at List of highest-grossing Indian films, because it was filmed in multiple languages—but over the years I've heard some interesting arguments, like that it's odd to place its total gross in the Tamil film list, since we don't know how much each version made, blar blar blar.

Not sure what other thoughts I have here, but I don't think I've answered the question to any satisfaction. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 23:47, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: By English language Indian films which are locally produced in English or Indian English like Being Cyrus. Sid95Q (talk) 01:36, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Just checked These films are already in list, My Bad. Warm regards. Sid95Q (talk) 01:44, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Incorrect plot summary at article Tumhare Liye

I recently watched the film Tumhare Liye. And the plot summary given on the article page (which has been copied from imbd) is incorrect. I want others to watch the film (its easily available on youtube) and confirm my opinion before I proceed to rewrite the entire plot summary. Please ping before adding your opinion. DishitaBhowmik 12:15, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

How to present films with multiple titles?

As we know, its not uncommon for Indian films to have multiple versions and at times, they have different title for each language. When the film's version is notable enough, they tend to have their own articles Eg. Missamma-Missiamma, Raavan-Raavanan. However, many of them are covered within a single article Eg. The Ghazi Attack-Ghazi, Velaiilla Pattadhari 2-VIP 2, with article title named after first version and redirect for second. So certain things seem unclear.

1. How to begin the article?
   1. Both titles separated by a slash (or parenthesis)
   2. Begin with the title after which article is named and the mention other somewhere in the lead.
2. How to present which title is of particular language
   1. Mention the language in parenthesis at the beginning
   2. To be written in prose: "it is simultaneously shot in 'this language' as"
3. Is it acceptable to mention both the titles in the infobox
   

A brief overview tells me that there is no consistency at present. Please share your thoughts regarding the same. Being relatively newbie, I'd be glad to know any community guideline or past discussion which I'm unaware of. Thanks! -- Ab207 (talk) 07:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Never never never slashes or parentheses! Slashes always introduce ambiguities, which is why in part they are discouraged at WP:SLASH. If anybody's ever tried to make sense of an Indian soap opera's cast and character list, that should be enough of a reason to avoid them. Same with parentheticals. These are overused in articles, and there are typically other ways to handle content, specifically by rewriting content in prose. Personally, I am not a huge fan of there being two articles for what is essentially the same story, from the same studio, with mostly the same cast. In an ideal world, these would both be folded together, but of course then people would fight over listing Telugu or Tamil first. It feels out of place to me to include the second title in the infobox, but something like this in the lead wouldn't be bad, unless it results in a run-on sentence:

Missamma (transl.  Miss Madam), produced simultaneously in Tamil as Missiamma, is a 1955 Indian Telugu-language romantic comedy film directed by L. V. Prasad.

Although it would also be acceptable to do:

Missamma (transl.  Miss Madam) is a 1955 Indian Telugu-language romantic comedy film directed by L. V. Prasad. The film was shot simultaneously in Tamil and released as Missiamma.

I don't have a strong feeling one way or another, other than what conventions to avoid. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Got it. Regarding separate articles for different versions, I think its only done when star cast is different, although story, studio, crew and even supporting cast remains pretty much the same. Anyway, Thanks for the input! -- Ab207 (talk) 21:54, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Source review

All, while getting rid of a forum site that was used in a lot of articles, I noticed that most of those were created by Enigmatic persona. After I left them a note, they appear to have stopped using that particular site, but concerned about their choice, I looked at some of their other sources used in articles. I've seen two that I've got questions about. moviebuff.com appears to be basically straight user-generated material/. Their about page [7] is pretty clear on that. I strongly question that source. They're also using indiancine.ma which is interesting. It appears to be somewhat user generated, but not entirely and may be used academically. See their about page.

The other part to this is that Enigmatic persona is filling in a lot of older films - 80's and 90's where top quality sources generally aren't there. The articles are mostly just stubby with the basics (other than the usual flop/hit nonsense). The latter source may be a good option for older films like this to provide those basic facts. Thoughts? Ravensfire (talk) 13:39, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Followup on this, moviebuff.com is used on over 400 articles [8]. If that used more like IMDB, I'm probably okay with it, but as a reference, I'm not as sure. Ravensfire (talk) 13:49, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Poking through some random pages, I see that CAPTAIN RAJU added this site quite a bit, at least a few years ago. Example here. There was also another user, Sangavitamilmani, who was editing Tamil film articles en masse, who also used this site. That user was indeffed for incompetence. Not that those two things were related, but it could suggest someone not knowing what they were doing. Enigmatic persona has made zero edits to talk pages, so I'd be surprised if we get a response here. It was also used by Editor 2050, who was indeffed for UPE. PK743 added seventeen links to Moviebuff here. It'd be nice to get some input from these folks. Especially the silent Enigmatic persona. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:21, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi, i used moviebuff.com as temporary strengthening source, as many old films doesn't have quality sources if at all they exist it's just about the star cast and the star director, many times producer and production houses are vomited from the news or the website articles of the older films. PK743 (talk) 03:36, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi, I have used it for the same reason. There are not many articles available which would provide the required information regarding the regional Indian films of '70s,'80s and '90s.Enigmatic Persona 3:23, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Should appearances in songs be folded into the cast section?

In thousands of articles (I assume), we have various people listed under "Special appearance in the song ___", which is typically tied to whatever interstitial songs are in the film. For example: Rajinimurugan or Maan Karate. So the question is whether or not these should be included in the cast section. They're not cast members in the traditional sense, i.e. people whose acting skills are used to tell the main narrative. And in many cases, the songs have no real relevance on the storyline. So should these credits be included? I may consider an RfC if there isn't sufficient interest here. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 23:00, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: I do not think there is a deliberate need to exclude "Special appearance in song" considering cameo roles are also usually listed. Take 2016 film Janatha Garage where Kajal Aggarwal was credited right after the lead cast (can be seen here), and it are also covered in multiple reliable sources [9],[10]. As per WP:FILMCAST (most relevant actors and roles with the most appropriate rule of thumb for the given film: billing, speaking roles, named roles, cast lists in reliable sources, blue links (in some cases)), they are notable more often than not. Granted, it may not always be the case, but there's no need to complete exclusion either.-- Ab207 (talk) 09:26, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Wait until you see Om Shanti Om, it has dedicated sub-sections for Cameo Appearances throughout the film and Other Special Appearances during the song "Deewangi Deewangi" -- Ab207 (talk) 09:40, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

The greater question is whether these item number appearances qualify as cast. Cast usually refers to people who are acting, not participating in interstitial entertainment. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:48, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Sir, do you propose to exclude song appearances while including other cameos? If yes, then we are putting an unequal criteria. Consider Preity Zinta in Krrish appearing only in a photo frame (definitely not acting) or Natalie Portman in Endgame appearing from an archived footage (acted for a different film). -- Ab207 (talk) 18:48, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

To some extent, truly minor appearances like that SHOULDN'T be listed anyway. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate list, if the only appearance is in a picture that doesn't drive anything, how relevant are they to the film? As WP:FILMCAST notes, it is a judgement call that often does rely on talk page discussion. Ravensfire (talk) 18:57, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Agree to an extent. My point is unless we establish some objective criteria to exclude cameos, going after song appearances won't be fruitful. In fact, it's the cameos which clutter the cast section. -- Ab207 (talk) 21:50, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

I'd say it's to a great extent. We don't, after all, aspire to be IMDb and log everybody who got a credit. Only significant roles should be included. Unnamed roles likely should not. Even when named, are they always noteworthy? Take this guy, who gets credit for handing Amir Khan a samosa. Whoopdedoo. @Ab207: I don't think that the item number participants really as "cast" if they're not related to forwarding the narrative. That data might be more appropriate for the soundtrack/music section in the various articles. do you propose to exclude song appearances while including other cameos? If yes, then we are putting an unequal criteria. Consider Preity Zinta in Krrish appearing only in a photo frame I think it's a reasonable proposition. There are some cameos that might be noteworthy, typically cameos where people actually move. I think it's a bit weird to consider a photograph a "cameo", to be frank. If a film uses stock war footage, do we then have to consider those soldiers actors? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 21:55, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Then we may consider moving them to music section -- Ab207 (talk) 05:30, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Discussion at WT:IN#Gold Awards, Lion's Gold Awards

There is a discussion open at WT:IN#Gold Awards, Lion's Gold Awards that may be of interest to members of this task force. It is a smaller discussion about two specific awards that could be used to discuss the sort of awards that are suitable for inclusion in Indian entertainment articles, which are often vulnerable to promotion. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:07, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Online backlash faced by Bollywood actors after BLMP posts

Today, I saw that the addition of online backlash received by Bollywood actors was added to Priyanka Chopra's article. But the fact is she did not received that backlash alone but whole Bollywood did following the BLM support post. I see no additions of this backlash to other Bollywood actor's articles hence I removed it from Chopra's article as she was not the sole receiver of the backlash. I did not find its mention in articles of other Bollywood actors like Deepika Padukone, Sonam Kapoor, Aishwarya Rai, Kareena Kapoor and others. I have not come across anything like this so I am starting this discussion on what to do about this. Pinging Cyphoidbomb, Bollyjeff, Kailash29792 etc Krish | Talk To Me 20:10, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• NOTE: My edit was reverted by Krimuk 2.0. I expected this revert but he has not added the same information in Deepika Padukone and Sonam Kapoor's articles. No mention of Padukone's article article about backlash she received because of her "acid attack look", alleged ISI connection. Interestingly, Krimuk 2.0 threatened me for pointing out why the recent backlash was not added in Alia Bhatt's article. Anyways, this is about the BLM post backlash so let's stick to this. Here are the sources that calls out whole Bollywood including Padukone, Kapoor and others and not just Chopra: TIME, Harper Bazaar, Al Jazeera, VICE and several others.Krish | Talk To Me 20:55, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I did not add this information to Chopra Jonas' article, Taquim did. So maybe you should ask him/her why he only added this to your favourite actress' article. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 21:01, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I know what he added but since you were so against these backlash additions to Bhatt's article 2 days ago, why did not you remove it and had a discussion before adding since it goes much deeper? Chopra is known more in US, it's obvious she will be featured in photos and more mentions as compared to Padukone and other Billywood stars but that did d not meant they were not called out. In fact there are several sources that included Padukone's name as well. In fact I wrote in my summary that this needs discussion but you reverted without coming here to discuss but I found no mention of any kind of backlash in Bhatt and Padukone's article.Krish | Talk To Me 21:07, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I Need Help Regarding A Tamil Movie Page

Hello,

I am looking for some help regarding this movie's page "https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12492650/?ref_=rvi_tt"

Can I go ahead and make a page for this movie? I have a similar movie page from where I can copy the format.

Thanks, Ablasaur (talk) 00:17, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

@Ablasaur: Hi there, as was mentioned in your Teahouse query, your best bet is to go through the Articles for Creation process, because you will need to demonstrate notability. Also, if you're going to base the shape of this article on another, please be sure to use a quality article, like one of our Good Article-rated pages. And if you need help with references, please see WP:ICTFSOURCES. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 00:26, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Birth year "update"

@Cyphoidbomb and Fylindfotberserk: Although not directly, this is somewhat relevant to what we are discussing here. In July 2020, I have updated Pujita Ponnada birth year based on Telangana Today's source which said she was 28-year old in June 2019, it just so happens that IPs begin removing the age on Wikipedia and it's even updated by the original source as 23-years on 11 Aug 2020 [11].

Now this might be a genuine mistake on the part of Telangana Today getting her age wrong but as it's updated now anyway, the age which is being displayed most likely came from the subject themselves, making it a primary source. Opinions on this? --Ab207 (talk) 18:27, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

@Ab207: Yeah that seems to be a mistake that they corrected. My analysis would be, depending on handwriting, 3 and 8 can look similar. It may be possible that the reporter wrote "23" on a piece of paper, and but when uploading it in the net they thought it to be "28". Now it is possible that the subject herself or her PR notified the news agency about the mistake. If you can find another source on her age, that would seal the deal. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:43, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Fylindfotberserk, yeah, seems likely, I'll look for a supplemental source. Ab207 (talk) 18:53, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

@Ab207: I don't know how we could reasonably infer that she was the source of the age change. Unless we had other information, like multiple sources saying she graduated college in X year or something like that. Unfortunately, Telengana Today doesn't adhere to the ethical standards that western journalists often do, i.e. by publishing a correction or noting updates at the bottom of the article. Unrelated, you should probably open a discussion on the talk page about the inclusion of those short films/music videos. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:52, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Cyphoidbomb, Yeah Indian newspapers with ethical standards are a rare species. On the short films, there's only one IP that keeps adding them back, I and another editor have warned the IP on the talk page, but they don't seem to halt at any cost. Ab207 (talk) 18:57, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Mahesh Babu filmography/archive1

Just noticed I haven't posted this here... I have worked on Mahesh Babu filmography along with Ab207, and could use some more feedback on its nomination. We only need one more article review at this stage. Thank you! MSG17 (talk) 17:26, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Indian Movies 1950s through 1980s at AfDs.

Hey folks:

I have been observing in the last few weeks (and perhaps before that as well), that Indian films from the 1950-1980s, that have been showing up for deletion. By the current rules of WP:NFILM, they all fall short of the requirements, primarily because of the lack of English language online sources of reviews for these films, resulting in an undue number of films from the 1990s. This should be a topic of discussion for one of the India Projects, to think through at an aggregate rather than discussing each of the films on a one on one basis in an AfD. I agree with the high level sentiment that Wikipedia is not IMDB. However, in the same vein, Wikipedia is not just a replication avenue other recent online sources (read as recent newspapers).

I really believe an India Films project (or this WP:ICTF) should take a look at this topic at aggregate rather than let each of these articles go through the AfD process one by one.

E.g. Naaka Bandi, Taxi Driver (1981 film).Ktin (talk) 19:06, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Ktin, Lack of online sources would definitely skew the film articles towards the internet era. But can you be more specific about the solution you are trying to propose? Ab207 (talk) 22:58, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Ab207 - Unfortunately, I don't have a solution to propose. Would be curious to get some inputs on how this skew can be tilted. An easy answer would be do not delete films between 1950s through 1980s as long as they have some notable sources e.g. IMDB etc. We seem to be content to use IMDB for individual actors' filmographies, why not use that for named film title articles as well. The incremental cost to keep these articles is zero. The loss of credibility is zero (as long as the articles are referenced). Ktin (talk) 04:04, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

That'd be so kind, but I'm not sure if ICTF is competent enough to determine that. Kailash29792, Can you look at this? something similar to what we discussed earlier. -- Ab207 (talk) 06:14, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Ab207, you would be searching for needles in haystacks if you use the regular Google for searching info for old Indian films. Instead, install this script and you can get only RS in the results. Kailash29792 (talk) 06:47, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Kailash29792, Thanks for that, would save a lot of time. But I think many films are still off the radar due to the paucity of English-language sources. Ab207 (talk) 07:06, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

There was a bit of a discussion related to this a bit earlier and frankly I'm not sure there's a good solution. Take Bete (film), recently created by Enigmatic persona. The sources are not good, despite their best efforts. Chiloka.com is user generated site, which means it is not a reliable source and the rest don't look any better. Ravensfire (talk) 16:51, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

FYI - that script is slick, but if you use the Modern skin, you probably won't see the links at the top of the page. You'll need to modify your modern.css file to this - User:Ravensfire/modern.css Ravensfire (talk) 17:32, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Hijacking of Bhaukaal redirect

I'm not familiar enough with Indian cinema to know if this is an example of redirect hijacking, but it sure looks like it. A redirect was changed in June of this year, apparantly to promote a non-notable web series. The page was reverted back once the hijacking was detected. This came to our attention via en-help IRC when one of the writers of the show demanded to have an article about himself in Wikipedia. --Salimfadhley (talk) 16:24, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

@Salimfadhley: I've commented at Talk:Bhaukaal. I don't see why we're preserving a redirect when a new article could go there. From what I can tell Bhaukaal was a working title announced four years ago before the final name Ghulaam was selected. Seems hard to believe that anybody's still looking for Ghulaam by searching for Bhaukaal. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:17, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into the matter. @Praxidicae:, do you concur that we might be better off reverting the most recent change and also my AFD proposal. I think this is one of the dangers of editing articles without a complete cultural reference. --Salimfadhley (talk) 19:30, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

I'm going to recommend we not use Times of India bio pages for details like birthdate

I'm going to recommend that we not use TOI bio pages like this and this. For both of the people listed, Rashmika Mandanna (DOB listed as 1996) and Rohan Mehra (DOB listed as 1989), we've had people on the talk page complain[12][13] that the years we have printed are inaccurate. While sometimes these bio sheets can be correct, I'm not sure where this information is coming from—is TOI scraping it from somewhere like Wikipedia? Without a name attached to the information, it looks shady to me, and I think we should avoid them. Thoughts? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:46, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Aditi Rao Hydari [14] is another great example of TOI getting it wrong. Neutral Fan (talk) 22:18, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

It's also weird because they have update dates, and I can't help but wonder if that's when they last scraped for the data, vs. checking their professional records. At WP:RSP, TOI is listed in a caution colour, with the summary of the site as: "generally reliable" to "unclear or additional considerations apply". I think this might be one of those cases. @Kailash29792, Bollyjeff, Krimuk2.0, and Krish!: Any opinions? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:43, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

I guess they give widely published birthdates (like a tertiary source). Left blank ([15], [16]) when they are not reported. So we might find corresponding secondary source(s) when TOI bio has a birthdate. --Ab207 (talk) 13:20, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

• This is not specifically related to TOI, but more of a cautionary tale. I noticed a few edits at the now-deleted Draft:Chiranjiv Makwana, which was a clear hoax article written about a nobody. The sources used were Nettv4u and Filmibeat. The nettv4u source was obviously written by Chiranjiv Makwana in an effort to self-promote. He is demonstrably not the writer of Scoob! and there is no such thing as the "Animated Oscar Awards". This is clearly some kid who has found a way to manipulate various outlets to reflect his hoax content, including Amazon Prime, which says about Anumpama Parmeswaran "She has a Boyfriend/Spouse, His name is Chiranjiv Makwana, He is film director and producer, They both are getting married soon." This is a real-world example of why we should always be circumspect about questionable sources. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:14, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Nice to see this discussion. I opened a similar discussion few months back here. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:22, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: Ah, great to know, thanks. So to add another to the list based on your post, Ratna Pathak Shah's TOI profile also listed her year of birth incorrectly. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:27, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: And possibly Udita Goswami's profile too. We were not comfortable using TOI profile in that article remember 1? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:33, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: Here's another one: Nikki Galrani, which TOI indicates as having a DOB of 3 January 1993. However per this intereview (verified channel, so probably not a copyvio) at 14:11, she says her birth year is 1992 and calls Wikipedia out as being wrong. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:10, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Thanks. I hate that Wikipedia is called wrong because of wrong sources used in articles. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:14, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, blame us... Anyhow, in this case I'm using the primary source, but only until something better can be found. Since she's admitting to being a year older than what the other publication said, I'm more inclined to believe it, but obviously we prefer secondary sources. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:32, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: Probably one of the few that admits being older . - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:45, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Classic TOI bio

This bio titled "Sathya" uses the photo of Satya (Telugu actor) and claims he acted in this Tamil film (featuring Vijay Sathya) and Kannada film (featuring Sathya Ajith). It goes onto say that he directed and starred in this Tamil film (directed by M. Sathyamoorthy and featured Mu Ra Sathya) and also this Tamil film (directed by Dil Sathya). It gives a birthplace, which I assume is of an unrelated Sathya (actor). The bio has created a pseudo profile Sathya which is a fusion of all lesser-known Sathyas...ugh my head is already aching. The topic is named Sathya but it no has truth in it. -- Ab207 (talk) 18:35, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Well, I guess that's why Times of India is considered a not-great source by Wikipedia. I think we at the ICTF tend to be OK with it, generally speaking, for financial info and stuff, but maybe we should consider abandoning it for other uses. I think we've been able to demonstrate that their cookie-cutter bios are problematic and can't be trusted--not sure if we have the same problems with article content written about a person. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:08, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

These bios must be bot-generated which gather info from their site and put up for display. No sane human can make a such mistake. --Ab207 (talk) 19:29, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Kalavum Kadhalum

Can someone look into Kalavum Kadhalum (களவும் காதலும்)? I cannot find any English-language sources other than database listings. If someone could look into Tamil sources to see if it is notable for a stand-alone article, or if it even actually released. BOVINEBOY2008 12:18, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

@Kailash29792 and TamilMirchi: Would you look into this?--Ab207 (talk) 19:25, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

I can't find any coverage even in Tamil. Best to delete it. Kailash29792 (talk) 19:30, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

starofmysore.com

Is this website starofmysore.com a reliable source for film related articles? --Universalrahu (talk) 19:37, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't have a definitive answer, but it does look to be reliable at first glance. It has a wiki article Star of Mysore and the print version has been around since 1978 and is archived at the Library of Congress. BOVINEBOY2008 23:23, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your information.--Universalrahu (talk) 16:53, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

thandoratimes

Is this site thandoratimes.com a reliable source for film related articles?--Universalrahu (talk) 17:00, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Hanumanthegowda

There is a deletion discussion about Hanumanthegowda at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hanumanthegowda. Interested editors are encouraged to participate.TamilMirchi (talk) 19:23, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Film Companion.

Can we use Filmcompanion.com as a source of reviews. The reviews are written by prominent critics like Anupama Chopra, Bharadwaj Ranjan and Rahul Desai. Zon (talk) 19:23, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Looks fantastic and acceptable to me, considering Chopra is the founder. Kailash29792 (talk) 03:27, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Bombhaat

Can others please keep an eye on Bombhaat? An account claiming to represent the production house is trying to claim ownership of the article and is adding unsourced/poorly sourced content. BOVINEBOY2008 22:10, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

@Bovineboy2008: Added to my watchlist. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 23:32, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Bhagyalakshmi and Indian dub artists

If anyone can help me wrap my head around this, I'm totally confused. The article on Bhagyalakshmi says that she is a Malayalam dubbing artist who has done dubbing mostly for actress Shobana, who has appeared in tons of Malayalam films. If Shobana is in lots of Malayalam films, wouldn't that tend to suggest that she speaks Malayalam? If she does speak Malayalam, why does she need someone to dub over her voice?

There is also a wider question that I have open at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers about when it is appropriate to include dubbing roles in mundane filmographies. For example, would we care that this person was hired to do the Hindi dub of one of the characters from The Boys? That seems to go beyond what we would normally track in an actor filmography. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 00:27, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

I think it's not uncommon to have someone else dub for an actor/actress, even if they speak the language. As Indian films don't typically use sync sound, it's not very difficult to get the voice dubbed. But I'm unsure whether it's worthy enough to be included in filmographies. -- Ab207 (talk) 13:18, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Mass addition of Film Companion reviews

Numerous Film companion reviews are being added by Dynamic IPs, mostly to low-profile Indian films (See here, here, and here for a few instances). All these come from the same IP range, so it's not unreasonable to assume it to be an organized effort by FC/someone affiliated with them. That, at least in my opinion, is indistinguishable from spam.

Should these all be reverted like this? Has Film Companion's reliability been scrutinized properly yet? Especially their non-notable staff writers.

• Pinging participants of past discussion. @Cyphoidbomb, Kailash29792, and DeluxeVegan:. -- Ab207 (talk) 07:51, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

  Ab207, though this dude may have a COI, I feel Film Companion is RS and therefore useable... at least with regards to WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV. Kailash29792 (talk) 08:24, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Anupama Chopra, Rahul Desai and Bharadwaj Ranjan are prominent critics who have written for multiple Indian newspapers in the past, so I won’t mind their reviews for Indian movies. They are also Tomatometer-approved publication of Rottentomatoes.See this defcon5 (talk) 08:31, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Kailash29792: I agree with your point for Anupama Chopra or Baradwaj Rangan, as they are established critics. Does it hold true for others? Can they be used to establish a film's notability? -- Ab207 (talk) 08:35, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography#Criteria for including actor awards?

Hey there I have opened a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography. It raises the question of whether MOS:BIO should include clear criteria about what sort of awards to include in actor biographies. Please comment if you are interested! Thanks. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:48, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Dadasaheb Phalke Award: Vivek Agnihotri

The Vivek Agnihotri article says that in 2017, his short film Mohammad and Urvashi won the Dadasaheb Phalke Award for best actor. As far as I am aware it is awarded to a person for overall contribution to cinema and not to movies. Is this a fake award using the same name. defcon5 (talk) 09:58, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

@DEFCON5: Thanks for reaching out. I would delete it. See WP:DADASAHEB. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 21:08, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Coolie No. 1 (2020 film)

Can someone ask for protection for Coolie No. 1 (2020 film). Too many spam edits and vandalism. defcon5 (talk) 09:40, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

@DEFCON5: You may request protection at WP:RPP or contact any willing administrator if there's enough activity going on. --Ab207 (talk) 07:22, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Chakra review section

If someone has the time, the reception section of Chakra (2021 film) needs a rewrite. It currently is just a dump of review scores and long quotes. It needs a good summary of reception and reduction of quotes. I also don't think the review scores are adding much, especially if we can summarize the points of the review appropriately. BOVINEBOY2008 15:45, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Mass deletion of Malayalam movies

• I happened to land up in Wikipedia after a long time and happened to notice that a lot of Malayalam movies are up for deletion. It pains me to see that articles made in good faith are up for deletion just because of the lack of online reference. Most of the movies starred A listers and were made in good faith in the early to mid 2000s when WP:N was not gauged based on the tight norms of WP:NFILM. Many movies like Meen, Ithikkara Pakki, Sujatha, Sthree, Unniyarcha, Jnaanasundari, Indrajaalam, Gajakesariyogam (preposterous), Jail, Kadamattathachan, Thacholi Othenan, Vishnu, The Tiger, Mayabazar, Thalastaanam, Wanted, Prasnam Gurutharam, Sesham Kazhchayil and Appu are up for deletion because they dont meet the well intentioned but impractical rules of WP:NFILM and nobody including me has the time for scouring for Malayalam and English references that may exist online or offline. I would be more than happy if somebody takes it upon themselves to improve these articles (I am too busy with my personal life or I would have done the honours). The absurdity and limited use of WP:NFILM can be seen in the fact that I have managed to save De Ingottu Nokkiye which is hardly known by Malayalam movie aficionados but might be unable to do so for most of the older films I have mentioned above. Jupitus Smart 14:19, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: I would like to hear your take on this. Please ping me so that I may look at the outcome whenever I login the next time. Jupitus Smart 14:23, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

@Jupitus Smart: Welcome back! I think it's unfortunate as well, but I'm not entirely sure what to do about it. There is no requirement that articles should be supported solely by online references, so if you found print references for the films that satisfied our GNG criteria that could be a way to go. That's the best I can suggest though. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:34, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you @Jupitus Smart: for bringing this up. I have also recently came across several Malayalam movies that got listed for deletion that has been listed here at WP:DSFILM by User:Kolma8. Yes truly it's painful for me as well as for users who have spend their time to create articles in good faith that got listed for deletion and some of them got deleted. It's a fact that the access to Internet was very less in the days before 2010 and the online media coverages was less. Because of it there may not be online references available for most of all the movies before 2010. If we go through the movies in the category 2000s Malayalam-language films most of all the movies lacks online reference unless if it has received a national recognition. Even in that category some movies which has received Kerala state awards is also missing media references. Most of film features significant involvement by a notable person and some of them is a major part of his/her career. But because of the reason it doesn't have media coverage as per the criteria in WP:NFILM it fails for most of the articles the notability. @Cyphoidbomb: It's somewhat difficult for many editors including me to get print references for the films that got released before 2010s. The leading news portals like TheHindu only have achieve web as well as print pages from 2009 and 2010 online. But for accessing it users need to subscribe for it. I don't think editors will go for it. Meanwhile I will look some other ways to improve the articles and I am happy to work on those articles although I am busy with my personal work and life. For now I would request the reviewers for WP:AGF and look into some of the film databases like m3db, msidb and indiancine.ma other than imdb which achieves Malayalam movies in the web.-❙❚❚❙❙ GnOeee ❚❙❚❙❙ ✉ 16:50, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

CfD about Film scores by language

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 March 13 § Film scores by language. Ab207 (talk) 14:44, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Numbering for the films table under Filmography

Recently, @Itsramhere has started adding row numbers to the films table under filmography. One such edit is Chiranjeevi filmography, which adds a row number to every line. That would make #156 for Khaidi No. 150 which is credited as Chiranjeevi's 150^th film. Should the numbering reflect this or just be an incremental number for every row?

Do we have a consensus for the numbering and if so how should it be numbered? -- DaxServer (talk) 19:02, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Personally, I'm against adding serial numbers to filmography tables since they are redundant. Kailash29792 (talk) 02:26, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Numbering the films is totally arbitrary (borderline WP:OR). It also makes the table clumsy and difficult to access. Better to avoid them altogether. -- Ab207 (talk) 05:02, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi, this is "itsramhere". We can keep the numbers in filmography sections, as they don't harm anyone right? It is not offensive to anyone, right? Regarding Khaidi No. 150 being publicized as the 150th film, I remember Amitabh ji requesting Chiru sir to do one last film and make it 150th. And he did Brucelee:the fighter. But if we go by the list of films, Chiru sir has acted as a main lead in 145 films to my knowledge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by itsramhere (talk • contribs) 17:08, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

@Itsramhere: You see, we'd arrive at different numbers while not counting cameos. Neither has more sanctity than the other. The broader question is how is this information relevant to the readers? Like Idi Pellantara being 42nd film or Raja Vikramarka being his 115th film. Its mundane and insignificant. Landmark films like 100th or 150th can always be mentioned in the notes, there is no need of a number column. -- Ab207 (talk) 05:50, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Filmography - Separate table for As Narrator

At the moment, the filmography includes tables as an actor, as producer, as director, and possibly some others. Most of the times the actors who narrates, do not perform in the movie. Surely, there might be some where both are done. One example I can recall right now is Grey's Anatomy.

Would a separate table for as narrator be useful? -- DaxServer (talk) 18:20, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Templates in Filmography tables

It would be better if we prefer using templates in all the tables, where ever possible. Template provide an advantage of easy maintenance and easy parsing by automated tools and bots. We can use the templates listed here for use in table cells - Template:Table cell templates. There are a lot of them with a lot of colors. I think all the colors we use are probably listed. If there is something missing, a new template can anyways be created as documented on the page. This would eliminate the need to use styie="background-color: #___" or style="text-align=___". One such example is this edit. -- DaxServer (talk) 19:43, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Newbie User / IP range not adhering to MOS:BOLDFACE and MO:ITALICS

Recently I came across a mobile IP range/newbie user who's not following MOS:BOLDFACE, MOS:ITALICS apart from other formatting and POV issues in the articles. Possibly a fan of Guru Dutt, since most of their edits revolve around film acted/directed by Dutt. I've added copyedit tag to the Pyasa article for now, but it obviously has other issues besides that. I've corrected them for Baaz, CID, Aar Paar. Is this the work of an old user? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 08:38, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Pyasa has a lot of edits over past few days. It's tangled with edits from an IP user and @Ds303: and it's quite difficult for a simple revert. The user Ds303 has added a lot of citations as well. I am unable to review the citations anytime soon. Do you think we should revert to earliest possible version before this user started editing, or is it okay to just keep the content and simply copyedit? -- DaxServer (talk) 10:22, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

A lot of their edits are POV and unreliably sourced. As an IP, apart from promoting Guru Dutt related articles, they made a number of unconstructive edits, this and this for example. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:36, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

List of accolades received by Soorarai Pottru

Has the film been nominated for a significant number of notable awards? In my research, the only notable award was best Tamil film at the Chennai International Film Festival (source). Whole it has gotten a lot of buzz for being in the running at the Golden Globes and Oscars, ultimately the film was not nominated for any awards in either ceremony. MSG17 (talk) 15:15, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

None of the awards mentioned pass WP:FILMCRITICLIST. I think its better to redirect the article to Soorarai Pottru. May be recreated in future if its nominated to a fairly large number of notable awards. -- Ab207 (talk) 15:33, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I was thinking would be the best course of action. I wanted to double check that it has not won/been nominated for a bunch of other significant ones that I didn't know about. MSG17 (talk) 16:09, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Karisma Kapoor lead image

I'm trying to stop an edit-war over the lead image at Karisma Kapoor. I know, everyone's shocked that this is happening... Please see the discussion at Talk:Karisma_Kapoor#Lead_image and offer any comments there. Thanks. Ravensfire (talk) 04:14, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Proper page name for Neha

At Talk:Neha (actress)#Her name and the name of the article, there is a discussion to move the page to her original name Shabana Raza, as that is the name she prefers, and which is reflected in her newer movies after her "comeback". I would have done the move, but am unsure if instead it should be her married name Shabana Raza Bajpayee. Jay (talk) 15:21, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

I have opened a move request to "Shabana Raza", please comment on the talk page. -- DaxServer (talk) 14:40, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Reliability of iflicks.in for reviews

Can someone please tell if iflicks.in is a reliable source for reviews? As far as I can tell the site is owned by Dina Thanthi, but its independent reliability stands WP:QUESTIONABLE as there is no information on their editorial policies and no details regarding who actually review films. Pinging Cyberpower678 one of the most active sysops in this area. GSS ^💬 09:47, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Whether it is a reliable source or not with regards to independent reporting or reviewing, it should be usable for interviews such as this. --Kailash29792 (talk) 11:05, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

We don't use sites for anything that has no evidence of reliability under WP:RS no matter what. GSS ^💬 17:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

As you mention, considering its owned and closely linked to the rather high-profile and renowned Dina Thanthi - quite clearly put in the 'privacy policy' section - it appears to be reliable. Neutral Fan (talk) 22:16, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Being a part of a renowned platform doesn't give a free to pass to reliability. The site has no information who post articles or review films and there is no evidence if their articles go through the editorial department so unless there is a clear picture we can't just accept it as a reliable source. GSS ^💬 05:47, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

I think interviews of the site can be used as WP:PRIMARY source, unless there is a good reason to believe that the interview is fake. -- Ab207 (talk) 06:07, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Spicyonion

I have been going through films dated 2005-2009 and I am finding many articles using [17] as a source. I cannot tell what the reliability of this source is, or if it should be used. BOVINEBOY2008 01:20, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

100% non-reliable. Must be removed from all mainspace articles asap. --Kailash29792 (talk) 03:03, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll add it to the project page. BOVINEBOY2008 15:52, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Anybody watched the Thugs?

Hello. Would anyone who watched Thugs of Hindustan (2018) can confirm if Telugu actor Satyadev Kancharana has any role in it? There are a bunch of reliable sources that mention him in the cast (NIE, The News Minute, DH, The Pioneer) but he says that's not Hindi debut ("While Wikipedia mentions another Hindi film as his debut, the actor clarifies that Abhishek Sharma’s Ram Setu is his first"). Wonder whether it's an uncredited/deleted role or just a hoax. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks -- Ab207 (talk) 07:48, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Captions for filmography tables

MOS:TABLECAPTIONS suggests to put a table caption and recommends as a best practice. Shall we add appropriate captions, just like the example given in that MOS link, to filmography tables as we edit? -- DaxServer (talk) 13:04, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

The Unsung Heroes

Can someone who reads Malayalam look at The Unsung Heroes (film)? I am really questioning the film's notability. There are several articles sourced but they all appear to be promotional, and I cannot verify that the film actually was shown at the festivals it claims to have won awards at. BOVINEBOY2008 11:55, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Ormax Media and Ormax Star India

A number of articles like Sidharth Shukla, Kapil Sharma (comedian), List of awards and nominations received by Alia Bhatt and a few others have Ormax Media or Ormax Star India rating or awarding individuals as “Most popular….”

How notable is this media group? Is it notable enough to find mentions in the said articles? defcon5 (talk) 10:45, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

When the rating is done every month in n no. of categories across many languages, then its WP:RUNOFTHEMILL and probably not worth mentioning. -- Ab207 (talk) 12:16, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Is https://www.newsclick.in/ reliable for Indian Cinema related articles?

Is this website reliable for Indian cinema related articles? There is no neutrality in this website. The website propagates a leftist view which lack neutrality. About us in this website dictates as follows " NewsClick’s aim has always been to report, in depth, on news and views ignored by corporate media, whose agenda is dictated by the rich and powerful in the country." These lines emotes the behavior of the website which has some agenda itself. The editor's leftist views are witnessed from this website "https://cpim.org/tags/prabir-purkayastha" which is a political party in India. How can a sympathizer of a political party can be neutral? The reliability of this website is in question. Need discussion on this.--Universalrahu (talk) 20:03, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Noticeboard discussion on reliability of Pinkvilla, Meaww & Bollywood Life

There is a noticeboard discussion on the reliability of Pinkvilla, Meaww & Bollywood Life. If you are interested, please participate at WP:RSN § Pinkvilla, Meaww & Bollywood Life. Tayi Arajakate _Talk 02:07, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Film Companion promo/tracking

Seeing a lot of tracking URLs for Film Companion being added in the review sections of films/TV shows as refs; e.g.: [18]. These are likely being added by the website's operators themselves, while that is not wrong per se tracking Wikipedia users through Google Tag Manager strings such as "utm_source=Wikipedia&utm_medium=ReviewSeeding&utm_campaign=HouseOfSecretsReview" appears promotional, spammy and unethical to me. Not sure what should be done here: Kailash29792, Ab207, Cyphoidbomb? Gotitbro (talk) 01:40, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

I say let them be. The site is not spam, it was founded by a leading critic, and other leading critics also write for it. Kailash29792 (talk) 02:02, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

While params of any kind are primarily unintentional or an overlook by editors who are just copy-pasting the urls into citations, the "utm_source=Wikipedia" is intentional and is thus external link spamming. The website can track incoming Wikipedia traffic by referral headers in the HTTP requests. @GreenC Is your bot capable of trimming these tracking params? — DaxServer (talk to me) 07:46, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

@DaxServer: deferring to @bender235 who might have a better tool BenderBot if interested. I'm not setup/approved for referral removals at scale. -- GreenC 20:03, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

The potential COI of Film Companion was discussed earlier but the task force was okay with it as FC is generally a reliable source. That said, I don't think there would be any objection if those trackers are removed from the urls. -- Ab207 (talk) 14:43, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Sources for Indian Cinema and TV Series

Hi, can tv series, or film series cast list have a cast which does not have any references or citation? There are a ton of wiki pages that have cast without citation, and they do not have any mantainence tag, but in some articles, many cast have been removed because they were unsourced. So, please clarify my doubt regarding this. Which is correct???Itcouldbepossible (talk) 13:38, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

@Itcouldbepossible: As far as I can tell, there's no need for any citation for credited cast because the film itself acts a source for such information. Uncredited roles and character interpretations, on the other hand, must have citations (see WP:FILMCAST). -- Ab207 (talk) 17:51, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

@Ab207: What about Tv Series, or daily soaps???Itcouldbepossible (talk) 02:36, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Itcouldbepossible, please go through MOS:TVCAST. Citing noteworthy and credited cast members is not generally required. All other information must be sourced. -- Ab207 (talk) 17:56, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Ab207 Consider the following article Khorkuto, Gangaram, Gramer Rani Binapani, Mohor, or any other TV stub. It has many unsourced cast lists. So will it be removed or kept? It is till not clear to me. MOS:TVCAST is saying that every All names should be referred to as credited, or by common name supported by a reliable source., but you are saying that they are generally not required. Itcouldbepossible (talk) 04:56, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Itcouldbepossible, it says all names should be referred as credited. That means if a particular actor is credited by name in the show, then the show itself acts as a source for the information. If you are deviating from that, then it should be supported by reliable source. In case of any disupte, please discuss with the concerned editor and reach a workable solution. Hope this helps. -- Ab207 (talk) 16:48, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

WP:NFF has an RFC

WP:NFF has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Platonk (talk) 02:46, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Dubbed films

In List of Kannada films of 2021, I have removed the dubbed films section but Rajesh Praveen has reverted my edit without any explanation. I'm of the opinion that the list is intended for original Kannada language films only, and not the dubbed ones. Would appreciate the community's input on this. Thanks -- Ab207 (talk) 13:19, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

My personal view is that the article is for films that were originally created in the particular language, not about dubs. I'm not seeing a Dub section in other languages. Ravensfire (talk) 16:41, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Previous versions of such pages used to carry dubbed versions, award ceremonies, and notable deaths (some still do) but they were removed at some point. If we have consensus to include only original films, we can get rid of other sections. -- Ab207 (talk) 17:32, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

A user started adding Web/streaming television series citing this reason [19].I think we need a consensus about which content should be added which not.Sid95Q (talk) 18:32, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

It's fairly obvious that a list of films should include films only. List of 2021 Indian television debuts may be created separately for the list of television series. Notable deaths and award ceremonies must added in 2021 in film. -- Ab207 (talk) 20:02, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Also users have started adding OTT platforms in List of Malayalam films of 2021, So we need a uniform consensus for all the languages lists as most of the times users argue that there us no discussion or consensus about this. Sid95Q (talk) 06:52, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Dedicated column for an OTT platform seems unnecessary, although a direct-to-video release may be indicated in the notes columnif needed. -- Ab207 (talk) 15:34, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

• In this edit, I have added the rough consensus of above discussion to the project page. Please review it and suggest any modifications if needed. Thanks. Customary ping to the participating editors, @Ravensfire and Sid95Q: -- Ab207 (talk) 12:53, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of highest-grossing South Indian films

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of highest-grossing South Indian films. Ab207 (talk) 15:12, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

Film production company articles

With the close of the this AfD as delete, I'm going to try converting articles (except the big ones like Sony, Zee, maybe Red Chillies?) under this category into stand-alone lists (which they already are de facto) as most of the 200 articles there do not pass WP:NCORP. I plan to nominate the absolutely non-notable ones for WP:CSD or WP:PROD; watch these - PROD_log, CSD_log - if you wish to contest any such noms. Please feel free to convert any. Also feel free to revert me, in which case I'll take them to AfD. hemantha (brief) 12:57, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Hemantha, I think if a non-notable production company belongs to a notable actor/producer, it can simply be merged/redirected there per WP:ATD-R. -- Ab207 (talk) 09:24, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Sure. But from a brief look - say 70mm Entertainments, Blue Planet Entertainments, Shree Devi Entertainers are very hard to salvage? Redirect to most successful film seems iffy, but might work in some cases. hemantha (brief) 12:48, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

In some cases, a redirect to the owner or main name, if there is one, may be appropriate. Himesh Reshammiya Melodies as am example. There's a feel of WP:UPE happening around some of these companies (Goldmines Telefilms Pvt Ltd as an example with a current AFD and I strongly suspect there are some suspicious editing, not the editor creating the article). If there's not some solid sourcing that focuses on the company itself (and there are some that do have good sourcing and coverage), AFD makes sense. Some of these are just mini walled gardens that need some trimming. Ravensfire (talk) 17:51, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes, there's a lot of UPE in the recent ones which is how I came across this category (as an aside, one absolute positive listifying has over outright PROD/AfD-ing is that it'd preserve evidence for us non-admins). Anyway I dipped into the waters with Shashi_Sumeet_Productions and Hombale Films before trying to see if there's any precedent to this kind of listifying NCORP fails. And there appears to be little for NCORP, but some for others like this AfD on GM products. hemantha (brief) 14:36, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Looking for comments at List Of SonyLIV Original Programming

Hey all, I'm looking for comments at Talk:List Of SonyLIV Original Programming to head off an edit-war. Thoughtful comments would be helpful to avoid this going to a drama board. Thanks. Ravensfire (talk) 03:35, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

COI-proxy user in Puli film article

It is to bring to your attention that a COI-proxy IP is using unreliable sources to increase the gross of the film Puli [20]. Last year we (Cyphoidbomb and me) dealt with these proxies aimed at Vijay's films that weren't successful at the box office. Pinging @Ab207, Ravensfire, Sid95Q, Kailash29792, Arjayay, and Tayi Arajakate:. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:15, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Just looking at the page titles where it's already being used ([21]) "ABC-all-you-need-to-know-about-this-XZY-movie/", this feels like a very spammy site. If it's getting pushed in an apparent COI/spam manner, the spam blacklist is the best option. This looks like a blog that scrapes content from various other sources. I would not want to use it as a source and would support it being blacklisted. EDIT: Also warned the IP for personal attacks in that edit summary as well as noting the source is not acceptable. Ravensfire (talk) 14:20, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Agree, no indication that the site publishes credible information. Would support blacklisting as a way to prevent abuse. -- Ab207 (talk) 14:26, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Agree that bollywoodsociety.com appears to be a coffee-table mag, rather than a reliable source. AFAIK the criteria for full blacklisting are quite onerous. I cannot, however, find any criteria for inclusion, or methodology for adding names to, "The following should not be considered reliable sources." section of WP:ICTFSOURCES. Given this discussion, which seems to be reaching a consensus, could it not be added to that list? - Arjayay (talk) 14:52, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Not aware of any particular criteria or procedure for addition into ICTF source guide but I think questionable sources are either first proposed here or boldly added directly. As there is rough consensus regarding about bollywoodsociety, I've cited this discussion to mark it as unreliable in this edit. -- Ab207 (talk) 11:05, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Bollywoodsociety looks yet another scraper site to me so I've no objection it being included in the list of unreliable sources. From what I understand, the source guide was originally created based on a discussion on this talk page so any changes based on the discussions here seems fine. I've also listed it at WT:BLIST. Tayi Arajakate _Talk 11:34, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Reliablility of Biz Asia

I have observed that many of Indian films and tv shows use Biz Asia as a source. Can it considered reliable or we should not use it in articles. AAhap³⁶ (talk • contribs) 13:37, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Bollywood -> Hindi cinema move request discussion

This is to invite those interested to take part in the ongoing discussion on the Bollywood talk page. Shahid • ^Talk2me 10:08, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Reliability of Pinkvilla

Was there any assessment of Pinkvilla's reliablity at ICTF before it was added to the project page? It was discussed at RSN once where Tayi Arajakate argued in favour. I believe Pinkvilla is a decent source with journalists who actually know their stuff with regard to films.

Case in point, take the film Bachchhan Paandey where the makers were tight-lipped about the film's originality. Pinkvilla rightly called out that it was a remake of Jigarthanda back in Nov 2020. They even revealed the gender-reversal of Siddharth's role in the original which is now played by Kriti Sanon, and it turned out to be correct. OTOH, "reliable" sources like The Hindu (Dec 2020), India Today (Mar 2021) were still calling it Veeram's remake while New Indian Express (Feb 2021) said its an " original screenplay" which could have been taken from the Wikipedia's version of that time.

Pinkvilla's BO figures are also well informed as they provide territory-wise break up, and mention trade in terms of gross, net and share while sources like India Today simply quote self-published tweets. I'm bringing this up because Pinkvilla is being removed even for non-controversial info like release dates. -- Ab207 (talk) 14:48, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

I say it should be usable, at least for exclusive interviews. Kailash29792 (talk) 15:11, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Usage for exclusive interviews goes without saying, as it falls under WP:PRIMARY territory. But calling it unreliable seems too rigid and inflexible. I'd say Pinkvilla's material falling outside of WP:NOTGOSSIP should be usable for coverage on films. -- Ab207 (talk) 15:48, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

• If there are no objections, I intend to move Pinkvilla to generally reliable section for the purposes of film-related sourcing. -- Ab207 (talk) 21:01, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

None from my side, as in objections. Kailash29792 (talk) 02:17, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Sorry a bit late to this. I should say though that I didn't exactly argue in favour, there is a lot of gossip and clickbait on the site that needs to be sifted through but then again that's perhaps par for the course when it comes to any news media reporting on the Indian film industry. Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with you that it's not outright unreliable, as a news outlet that specialises in the film industry, it tends to have better research and is in many cases more accurate than general news outlets. It should be usable for non-controversial information as long as it is being used strictly for the film industry, doesn't fall under celebrity gossip or advertorials and one takes BLP (particularly promotion) into consideration. Exclusive interviews and the like goes without saying as a primary source. Tayi Arajakate _Talk 05:47, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Tayi Arajakate, thanks for the comment. I agree about celebrity NOTGOSSIP which we can clarify with a note that the reliability is strictly related to film content. I'm keen on upgrading this because the primary focus of ICTF is films while BLPs of actors is secondary. -- Ab207 (talk) 07:28, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Yeah I've no issues with upgrading it, with a note that is. To be honest, I think most of them need some note or the other. I also didn't mean it shouldn't be used for BLPs of actors at all, just with some considerations in mind. Tayi Arajakate _Talk 09:40, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Got it. ICTF should ideally list all the mainstream sources and make a note known of issues with them. But it presently gives as simplistic classification of general news outlets as reliable and film websites are unreliable. This is in contrast with say, American films, where entertainment sites like Variety, Deadline Hollywood, Hollywood Reporter etc are considered quality sources and general news outlets are rarely used. This no way means that Indian films sites are of that standard but gap between the film sites and general news outlets is not as wide as it portrayed in the source guide. -- Ab207 (talk) 12:13, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Film/Indian cinema task force/ICTF FAQ has nice tables with rationales for deeming sites as unreliable, with links to previous discussions. I don't know how updated it is, though. --Geniac (talk) 04:05, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

India.com by Zee Media Corporation

Tangential but related since this an instance of "reliable source" which has no idea what they are saying: This article says Valimai "crossed Rs 96 crore at Box Office worldwide." They might have deduced this from:
a. "According to media reports, the movie saw a pre-release business in theatres of about Rs. 64.50 crore in Tamil Nadu and an overall of Rs 76 crore in India and 20 crores from the rest of the world." -This is dubious because pre-release business has nothing to do with the theatrical gross.
b. A tweet by a random fan account which says "TN - 36.17CR ROI - 76 CR WW - 20.6 CR Overall - 96.77 CR" - Ludicrous numbers. Rest of India 76 crore? Even hard-core Ajith fans might find it difficult to believe.

This is not the first time India.com has published has such fake numbers. Here, they somehow managed to get the 5 day-wise collection of Uppena which totals to 31.5 crore. They simultaneously know that the film has grossed 51 crore in 5 days. In Telugu cinema's parlance, 31.5 crore here refers to "the distributor share" which is Gross-(theatre rentals + taxes). Not knowing this difference, the geniuses at India.com simply add the gross and share, and write: "The total is minted is around Rs 81.5 crore worldwide." (Ignoring the poor grammar, the added figure should be 82.5 but its probably too much to expect from them)

Watch this space for more updates on Valimai’s Box Office Collection. For sure, ICTF should not. -- Ab207 (talk) 20:31, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

• Update: Upgraded Pinkvilla as a reliable source for film content in this edit. Also took the liberty of adding India.com as unreliable here per the above evidence. Thank you Kailash29792 and Tayi Arajakate for your valuable inputs. -- Ab207 (talk) 08:01, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

CREDIBILITY of Jatinder Singh from Pinkvilla is a very BIG question.

From his recent Valimai numbers these are the questions.Tayi Arajakate Kailash29792 Ab207

Question 1: BOI is reputed source, it has mentioned Valimai as all time highest grossing film of Tamil Nadu on Day 1 after Rajinikanth's Annaatthe. Where as jatinder pinkvilla, mentioned Valimai has number 2 film after Vijay's Sarkar. What is the reason behind it.

Question 2: BOI 's ₹25 crore nett transforms to rough ₹30 crore gross, where as Jatinder pinkvilla says 28? What is the reason?

Question 3: In which way jatinder pinkvilla is more authentic than BOI to display a opening day figure of ₹2 crore less in Wikipedia? For one day if pinkvilla can reduce 2 crore from a single state, how much from all regions for 10 days? So, you support neutrality or downplay?

Question 4: Before 3 months no articles written by Jatinder for Pinkvilla or any other portal. What credibility does he provide to make Boi, Ramesh Bala, Manobala, national media editorial team, local media editorial team unreliable?

Question 5: If his numbers will only be taken for consideration, why not other's number? He writes number as per his wish and publishes article. As per Wikipedia, all other print media and news media numbers are not reliable.

People who are active on Twitter know the actual agenda spread by Jatinder Singh over last few years. Downplaying all actor figures except Vijay is his personal goal. He is known for the same. Established media outlets don't just randomly take any verified person for displaying Box Office figures. There is a big politics behind it, people in the industry knew it very well.

Allegations

He runs a page called cinetrak which is widely known as actor Vijay funded portal. He himself confirmed it in his Twitter page proof. This was started in 2016. If he has started Box Office portal called cinetrak, why he wants to write article in pinkvilla at the expense of cinetrak going down? Because, nobody given credibility to cinetrak because of their mischievous activities and bias. And their agenda of making actor Vijay as number 1 failed. So the agenda group tried a new way to get into credible Box Office system, that's when they found a link to write an article in pinkvilla on 10 December 2021- proof. They are not employees of Pinkvilla, just for writing an article Jatinder is used.

LAST but not the least there is very BIG allegation against cinetrak that they are paying people to downgrade Valimai collections.

Proof Tweet from verified user named shivam_bangwal on Twitter. This tweet has close to 2,000 retweets and 3,000 plus likes "Got an offer from some admin of a handle named 'Cinetrak' to downplay the collections of #Valimai. I rejected as it is non ethical.

On top of it, Pinkvilla does not have a proper Box Office frame work like BOI or Bollywood Hungama to check box office figures of a film. Jatinder Singh simply writes his own numbers and publishes. They are not an established or credible source for Box Office numbers. They are too early to trust for Box Office of south films.

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 09:43, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Pinkvilla itself is not a complete RS, so how will we use its people? Kailash29792 (talk) 10:01, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Updated with new allegations section, please read that too.Kailash29792 There is only one person named Jatinder Singh who writes Box Office numbers for pinkvilla. He is not credible and trustworthy and does have bias. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by MovieBuffIndia (talk • contribs) 10:14, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Ans to Q1, 2, and 3 – Bollywood Hungama another which you mentioned as reliable, also stated that Valimai is behind Sarkar. Or take the latest release Hindi release Gangubai Kathiawadi. Its 1st week net as per BOI is 66.72 cr but BH says its 68.93 crore. Since both sources are considered reliable, can you explain the reason for this difference? I can because some deviations are bound to happen because everything is an estimate.

Ans to 4 – If Jatinder Singh himself posts something on twitter, it has no value. But his articles published as staff member of Pinkvilla which are subject to its editorial board are considered reliable. Unlike Jatinder Singh, Ramesh Bala and Manobala don't work for any national or local portals. They can publish whatever numbers they want and get away with it as they are not under any scrutiny of editorial board. If you happen to write to those portals who published Bala's figures, they will simply disown it saying that they are not responsible to their tweets in any way.

Ans to 5 – Nobody said that only Pinkvilla is reliable and all others are not, however, Pinkvilla happens to be one of the better side of sources we have. You can bring any news portal source which is published by staff writer, they will be considered for inclusion.

There is nothing wrong even if Jatinder Singh worked for Cinetrak before. If anything, it shows that he had experience before joining Pinkvilla. Who is this @shivam_bangwal, being verified does not mean that every they say is a gospel truth. -- Ab207 (talk) 10:18, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Boi and Bollywood Hungama deviation of 2 crore is for just one full week. Not for a single day from a single state. Also they have been doing it for decades and cemented their place with reputation unlike pinkvilla.

Jatinder downplaying 2 crore from Tamil Nadu alone in a single day, imagine the overall collection for a day or a week, this makes a larger impact to it. He did not work for cinetrak, he is the one who created that page and it is still operational in Twitter. There is an organized group to downplay all actors collection except Vijay. Also coming to Twitter user allegations, as you are saying it is not true, there are same chances for it to be true as well. What if it is actually true? Pinkvilla is again an online platform and the so called editorial board is a question mark. And their Box Office reliability is another question mark. They recently started writing articles with number and only one person jatinder writes it. They don't have a specific Box Office section.

A person working for a box office portal can write an article on different platform. What is the necessity of a person owning a box office portal goes to write an article on Pinkvilla? This is a big conflict of interest. Everybody knows that Taran Adarsh doesn't own any portal.

Also, there are bunch of local media in Tamil Nadu like ThanthiTV, PuthiyaThalaimurai, Suntv, who don't use manobala or Ramesh bala as source but they publish news on TV and print media with 200 crore figure of valimai unlike jatinder who downplays to 140. Just because today he posts a number close to Boi doesn't mean he is reliable, tomorrow for a actor he will publish as per his wish and people might believe it is true. Also, TN Box Office system is complicated and the ground reality is people in TN don't take jatinder as credible source for Tamil Films, this is one of the reason his own cinetrak didn't get any fame or recognition over the years as they support only one specific actor with bias.

Tayi Arajakate Kailash29792 Ab207

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 10:44, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

MovieBuffIndia, in above link you gave, Jatinder Singh said that he is no longer associated with Cinetrak. Admittedly, Jatinder Singh numbers are closer to BOI and other sources, and the variation is not much in the case of Hindi and Telugu films. If the numbers of Tamil films vary widely then we can go for Valimai solution, attributing every figure and display BO as range. Hope that will address your concern. -- Ab207 (talk) 11:05, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Hindi biz trusted by Taran Adarsh, Bollywood Hungama and BOI. Telugu system is completely different with hires, shares, gst and there are reliable portals for it too, those portals track accurately and gained trust over the years. Pinkvilla is the new entrant in box office field without doing any frame work on their website or without having renowned journalists to their name. This Jatinder Singh figure is disputed mainly for Tamil films, because for other languages Box office, public believe in different sources which is not pinkvilla. That is the reason we are saying his figures for Tamil cannot be taken for granted as he is run by an agenda for a specific actor. We are always open for the suggestion and we completely accept the solution of giving fair chance to all trade analyst figures which are published in more than two or three reputed established media outlets and let public decide the truth.

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 12:05, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

MovieBuffIndia, So you are basically saying that Balas should be considered when they are published by various media outlets. There's probably some merit in that, and I don't have any issue if their figures are attributed as we did in Valimai. The same should be followed for Jatinder Singh as well. That would be an ideal solution I think. -- Ab207 (talk) 13:04, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Even we felt that Jatinder is getting the merit of being used as credible source in his short 2 month span of writing Box Office article in Pinkvilla over established Box Office portals, established trade analysts and established media outlets who have been used as credible sources over the last 5 to 10 years. Having said that we completely accept your solution.Ab207

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 13:32, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Another point to be presented,

Jatinder Singh does NOT know to speak, read, write, understand Tamil language. He is NOT part of the trade. He is NOT in tamilnadu. People know that he does NOT even watch these films.

On what criteria or basis he publishes the number of Tamil film for people to believe him?

How can he get tamil nadu Box Office collection by sitting in North?

All know that Taran Adarsh is a leading trade analyst in India with decade of box office experience and tracking, but he never shared Tamilnadu Box Office collection of a Tamil Film. Because the fact is he himself cannot track with his sources.

Is Jatinder Singh greater than Taran with Tamil Nadu sources?

If you look at the history of Jatinder Singh, you would have surely oberserved that he never published Box Office figure FIRST for any Tamil film.

The fact is trade analysts come up with a figure first on Twitter, later he will add extra to that figure and publish for actor Vijay film and reduce greatly for other actors. Basically the source he has is ONLY Twitter. He nicely takes from Twitter and publish as per his wish. This is the bitter TRUTH.

Normally Tamil Nadu Box Office is a complicated thing, only trade analysts sitting in Tamil Nadu are able to calculate and gather from large number of distributors and producers and exhibitors. Without being part of the industry, you can never come up with figure in TamilNadu expecially Tamil film.

Industry people are in touch with trade analysts like Ramesh Bala and Manobala. Even Sunpictures CEO, Valimai producer Boney Kapoor, and many others in actual trade are following these two people in Twitter. You can check the same too.

This is not Overseas to say rentrak figure as it is available with proper tracking.

Nobody in the actual trade know Jatinder Singh. Even in Wikipedia articles, no Box Office source would have mentioned Jatinder Singh before 2 months. What is the reason for this sudden favour, sudden trust, sudden credibility?

A normal Tamil community person reading the wiki article [as per Jatinder Singh] will obviously ask all the above questions.

The possible answer we get from Wikipedia community for everything about him is, he publishes number close to Box Office India, that too less for all actors. He basically does not have any source, all he does is takes number from Twitter because that's what he knows. He was never part of trade.

Also,

If you scroll to the bottom of this Times of India stand alone article which was published on next day early morning of Valimai release, It mentioned 36 crore from Tamil Nadu alone. It is from their own source. Their editorial board takes responsibility.

Ab207 Kailash29792 Tayi Arajakate Arjayay Ravensfire Sid95Q Fylindfotberserk Bollyjeff

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 08:27, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

MovieBuffIndia The large variation between Pinkvilla, Box Office India vs Manobala means that atleast one of the side is publishing false figures. In such contentious cases, its absolutely not wise to pick sides per WP:NPOV. Just attribute all the figures and be done with it. We discussed this over and over, and I don't think anyone can give you any better solution for this. Also please don't bludgeon the process. You already made your point in a fairly comprehensive manner in multiple talk pages, so the let community respond. Else, you are only decreasing your chances of getting adequate response. -- Ab207 (talk) 09:13, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

NO, you are making others believe that Jatinder Singh of pinkvilla is close to Box Office India. This is a clear misconception. And completely wrong.

Proof

8 days collection report of BOI article

8 days India nett - ₹92 crore

8 days India gross - ₹108.56 crore. [92+16.56(18%GST)]

11 days collection report of Jatinder Singh Pinkvilla article.

11 days India gross ₹104.30 crore

11 days Overseas gross ₹34.50 crore

11 days Total gross - ₹140 [You mentioned this on Valimai stating they are reliable]

Why this purposeful DOWNPLAY?

This person is a clear actor Vijay agenda spreader and purposely degrades other actor collections.

Imagine an established decade old portal publishing a figure of 109 crore gross in 8 days but as per the new entrant the movie didn't cross that figure in 11 days also and collected only 104 in 11 days.

Difference of ₹5 crore already pending[8 days] + 3 days = Downplay.

9th,10th,11th day are Fri, Sat, Sun for your information.

If you could remember my day 1 point, if a person can deduct 2 crore from one state for one day, how much can he downplay for all area for all these days?

A movie is doing well but a person keeps spreading negativity with his agenda, we should not let others go under this.

From the above example with proofs, I hereby request all to stop assuming Jatinder Singh of pinkvilla as reliable source or even close to BOI.

Immediate intervention required from Ab207 Kailash29792 Tayi Arajakate Arjayay Ravensfire Sid95Q Fylindfotberserk Bollyjeff to STOP using pinkvilla & Jatinder Singh for Tamil Box Office.

There is a thick line between established trade portals[analysts] and new entrant Jatinder Singh Pinkvilla.

If you get time kindly respond, not compelling anyone. Just sharing the opinion.

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 04:59, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

I said Jantinder Singh is closer to BOI than Manobala, and that point still holds. Also, I don't see a need to push this beyond a point. You first argued at Talk:Valimai that all figures should be allowed and it was accepted. Now you've gone a step ahead to demand that Pinkvilla should be removed. However, I believe that removing one of the two figures we have, make its one-sided which goes against NPOV. Since I spent enough energy explaining this, I won't be commenting any further. If the community thinks otherwise, I respect it. Best -- Ab207 (talk) 06:27, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Bollywood vs Hindi cinema

Isn't it time we changed the Bollywood article back to what it actually is? Since Indian cinema has changed so drastically over the last couple of years where many of the ingredients which are associated with what is commonly known as Bollywood have now disappeared, isn't it better to give Hindi cinema its formal name on Wikipedia? I'm asking here first to see if there's any agreement in the first place before a name change is proposed. Shahid • ^Talk2me 23:22, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

• Support this proposal. Hindi cinema is more formal and encyclopeadic in tone than its monicker Bollywood. Also make its WP:CONSISTENT with other cinema articles like Telugu cinema, Tamil cinema etc. which are named after language. -- Ab207 (talk) 07:44, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support (even though my user name is based on it) :-) Bollyjeff | talk 18:33, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

• Bollyjeff: OK, since this page is not where it should be discussed anyway, a name change has been proposed now on Talk:Bollywood. Shahid • ^Talk2me 11:51, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Casting director section

I've come across a few articles with a separate header with the casting director's name only and nothing else. Exp - this one. I don;t remember such a section being present in these or any other articles before. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:03, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Film Companion

Can somebody clarify whether Film Companion is a reliable source for movie reviews? There is a debate at Talk:The Kashmir Files, where TrangaBellam states that only the weblinks are black-listed for spamming reasons, but the sources themselves are reliable. Is that correct? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:32, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

I think it's reliable and this silly block on it should be removed altogether. Can anyone tell us how to do it? Shahid • ^Talk2me 12:39, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

They have a dedicated group of sseding-spammers; don't think whitelisting is feasible. TrangaBellam (talk) 12:41, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Anupama Chopra seem to be among the renowned film-critics from India and FC is a RT approved publication. TrangaBellam (talk) 12:41, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Before she is an RT critic, she is a veteran Indian film critic, an award-winning author. That's my point when I'm saying RT is just an American RA website. Shahid • ^Talk2me 12:51, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

I think it's a reliable source, but they were running a pretty determined spamming campaign. Yes, it sucks for good-faith editors. Complain to the website for running the BS spam campaign. Wikipedia could use a more nuanced spam filtering system, but we have to use the one that we've got. Ravensfire (talk) 13:06, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

There's a website called OTT Play, launched by HT Media focusing on OTT content. It hosts reviews from on its own, in addition to Hindustan Times, Live Mint, Desi Martini and Film Companion. I suppose some of the reviews by Film Companion can be cited using this site. I was planning to propose OTT Play as candidate for ICTF reliable sources if there are no objections. -- Ab207 (talk) 13:42, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Manobala Vijayabalan

Manobala Vijayabalan (@ManobalaV) is a "film industry tracker" on twitter who is frequently cited by Janani K of India Today and other sources. However, PublicEnemy54321 has noted that BO figures published by him are questionable because they almost always vary compared to other reliable sources. Comparison table for recently released films:

Film	Figure	ManobalaV's estimate	Other reliable estimates
Valimai	WW - 4 days	159.75 crore	100 crore (Ormax Media via The Indian Express) 111 crore (Pinkvilla)
	Tamil Nadu - 4 days	109.08 crore	74.39 crore (61 crore net @18% GST by Box Office India) 85 crore (Asianet News Tamil)
Bheemla Nayak	WW - 3 days	128.38 crore	103.5 crore (Pinkvilla) 108 crore (Namasthe Telangana) 110 crore (Ormax Media via The Indian Express) 110 crore (Samayam Telugu)

In November 2021, Indian Express wrote an article about the claims of ManobalaV on Annaatthe BO figures. They noted that almost all the media reports which reported that the film has grossed over 200 crore trace back to him. However, IE wasn't able to verify these figures independently from other sources.

With no editorial oversight and reputation of fact checking, ManobalaV falls under what Wikipedia calls WP:SELFPUB. Even though they are sometimes published in reliable sources, ManobalaV's figures are controversial, and many times found to be inaccurate. Therefore, propose to add ManobalaV and any source that traces back to him in the list of unreliable sources if there are no objections. Inputs are welcome. Regards -- Ab207 (talk) 09:40, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

It would also helpful to know what the community thinks of reliable sources which quote mysterious trade pundits/unreliable sources for box office figures without doing their own research. Here, Hindustan Times quotes someone called "Trinath" who says Valimai grossed 150 crore in the opening weekend (4 days) which is way off than other reliable estimates. -- Ab207 (talk) 06:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

17 Days Bheemla Nayak BO article of Times of India article uses Manobala figures without changing any decimal point. Day by day, week by week exact breakup of Manobala figures are present in the article. But there is no Mention of Manobala's name or his tweet link in the entire article. Who takes responsibility for this figure - Times of India editorial board or Manobala?

Now Manobala is unreliable or times of India?

FYI: Manobala Vijayabalan's Bheemla Nayak 17 Days Figures Tweet.

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 11:31, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Update:

Above mentioned repeated for the 18th Day too

18 days TOI article of BheemlaNayak BO

18 days Manobala Vijayabalan's tweet.

Also, another Suriya movie Etharkkum Thunindhavan 5 days TOI BO mentioning ₹100 crore club.

5 Days Manobala Vijayabalan's Etharkkum Thunindhavan BO tweet.

All these exact figures are from Manobala Vijayabalan without mentioning his name anywhere in the article.

When India Today, News 18, Deccan Herald, mentions Manobala Vijayabalan's figure with his name, all come forward to say it is unreliable. Whereas times of India writes article with Manobala Vijayabalan's figure without changing even decimal places, suddenly these articles have become reliable to mention in BO page of Radhe Shyam, BheemlaNayak, Etharkkum Thunindhavan,because the article doesn't mention his name in it.

If we see the bigger picture, problem for wiki community lies with journalists using Manobala Vijayabalan name not with his figures.

But when it comes to the newbie, actor Vijay agenda spreader Jatinder Singh of Pinkvilla who writes number as per his wish and publishes, it becomes reliable and falls under WP neutrality.

Double Standards is the thing which we could sense here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MovieBuffIndia (talk • contribs) 08:36, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Radhe Shyam Day 1 worldwide figure

Producer figure - ₹79 crore Manobala figure - ₹72.41 crore Jatinder figure - ₹61 crore

Radhe Shyam opening day BO article written by actor vijay agenda spreader Jatinder Singh compares radhe Shyam to Master and purposely puts ₹10 lakhs less than master India figure which was released with 50% occupancy. Now we all must come under the impression that Radhe Shyam with 100% occupancy could not surpass master figure in India. That too not on second day or third day which might impact based on reviews, but for opening day itself. Such is the quality of BO report from the great Jatinder Singh. And we all must believe it.

Everyone knows that producer figure slightly vary with trade sources, but the great Jatinder Singh says collection with ₹18 crore difference on opening day.

Truth of Jatinder Singh from Pinkvilla and his agenda is evident here and the past proofs which we have provided. Everyone in Twitter knows his strategy and agenda. Here in Wiki community people are finding it hard to even consider the points put forward.

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 10:04, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

• Comment: I have seen a magnitude of people use Manobala's figures even after being told not to. One user Gokul BM has been accusing me of being a "Prabhas Fan" and says that "I should be banned" just because I removed their source and deemed it unreliable because it uses Manobala's figures every time. More or so Manobala on Twitter is known to inflate and deflate figures based upon the actor that stars in the film. He is notoriously known to post fake collections the same way production houses do. SP013 (talk) 16:58, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

These accusations are with newbie Jatinder Singh of Pinkvilla from long time. He is known to spread actor Vijay's agenda over the years in Twitter. Just before 2 months he started writing articles for Pinkvilla, before that no article or no other portal uses him for BO numbers. Multiple portal across India use Ramesh Bala and Manobala Vijayabalan's figures from 5 plus years as they are from actual trade and close to distributors and production houses. Where as Jatinder Singh clearly writes article from figures which are circulated in Twitter. Jatinder Singh does not have any knowledge about south India or its films. He clearly needs more time to believe as credible source. Pinkvilla is a non RS, plus they don't have BO frame work like Box Office India or Bollywood Hungama. Just because he publishes number how can it be considered reliable? If Manobala or Ramesh Bala can be considered un reliable, what ground does Jatinder Singh holds from sitting in north without knowing south language or watching south films or being part of south trade? SP013

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 18:24, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

I believe this section is for discussing credibility of Manobala Vijayabalan, not Jatinder Singh. You've already a seperate section for that, so there's no need to duplicate them here. -- Ab207 (talk) 18:56, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Have a look at the below table. Important point to be noted is all figures was published first by Manobala Vijayabalan on his Twitter handle on a daily basis. Articles were written by others later in the day without mentioning his name or his tweet. The below table is to enlighten with stand alone articles which are used in respective film page as reliable source stating they publish numbers on their own. Actual fact is all takes number from trade analyst ManobalaV. You can cross verify the links. Shared only few proofs.

Film	Manobala figures	Other Sources
Valimai	₹232.80 cr	₹234 cr TOI article
Radhe Shyam	₹214.04 cr	₹214.04 cr Radhe Shyam TOI article same number
Bheemla Nayak	₹192.86 cr	₹192.86 cr Bheemla Nayak TOI article same number
RRR	₹1039.62 cr	₹1039.50 cr Samayam Telugu Article

From the above table it is evident that times of India, Samayam and few other uses manobala figures without mentioning his name and they are considered reliable. where as India today, hindustan times, Indian Express uses with his name but they are purposely labelled as unreliable.

I hereby request others to not make a false pov that Manobala Vijayabalan figures are wrong.

Kailash29792 Tayi Arajakate Arjayay Ravensfire Sid95Q Fylindfotberserk Bollyjeff DaxServer

Marketing section for The Kashmir Files

Requesting editors from ICTF for adding some background into the missing Marketing section for the film. The articles is under discretionary sanctions, so please be aware, and add notes in its talk page if in doubt. Thanks! — DaxServer (t · m · c) 00:37, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

Reliability of Open Magazine

Hey guys, just a quick question since I couldn't find any info on it on WP:ICTFSOURCES, is Open Magazine considered a reliable source (specifically for biographies?) and if it is so, can we add it to the list then?

Thanks in advance. Meryam90 (talk) 21:46, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Print sources are generally reliable for film-related content per WP:NFSOURCES. For biographies, WP:CONTEXTMATTERS like any other source. -- Ab207 (talk) 06:18, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

Removal of language from the lead sentence

It is regarding User:Maestro2016's recent removal of language from the film article leads (example [22], [23]) with a quote "Language unnecessary in lead sentence. See WP:FILMLEAD". WP:FILMLEAD doesn't seem to mention anything barring languages explicitly in the lead sentence. India has multiple film industries. Mentioning only the country is not enough IMO. Also the edits, or I should say 'the removals' are are only targeted on Hindi film articles only. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:21, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

WP:FILMLEAD says lead sentence should normally include the title, year, genre, country, director, writer, and/or producer. It doesn't say anything about including the language. I get your point about the different Indian film industries, but the language is already mentioned in the Infobox (or could be mentioned elsewhere in the lead section). It doesn't need to be in the lead sentence. Also, it's not just Hindi film articles, but Baahubali 2 also doesn't mention the language in the lead sentence either. Maestro2016 (talk) 18:30, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Unlike most other countries, language is not implied from the country of origin in the case of Indian films, therefore it must be mentioned in the lead, preferably in the opening sentence. Baahubali 2 is one of those special cases as its shot in two languages, hence they are mentioned in the following line. Removing language altogether from the lead is no way an improvement. -- Ab207 (talk) 18:42, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

I agree with Ab207. It is very much possible that the WP:LEAD policies were written without taking Indian film industry into consideration. Thus why for some cases we have our our set of rules on top of the general MOS:FILM guidelines and policies here in WP:ICTF. Maestro2016 In read-mode the first thing we see is the lead not the infobox (unless someone is using mobile device). WP:LEAD doesn't bar the mention of language in the lead either. Besides, you should have tried for WP:CONSENSUS here before changing long-standing writing styles in articles. I believe we should revert them back to status quo till we reach a consensus here. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:52, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Adding on that, infobox serves its own purpose, and is not intended to substitute information in the lead. The removal of language from the lead sentence is out of sync with thousands of other Indian film articles, including GAs and FAs. -- Ab207 (talk) 18:57, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Being a multi-lingual, the language of the film is definitely not implied. Adding the language with the nationality seems logical. P.S. On mobiles, the first lead para is shown, followed by a collapsed infobox, and then the rest of the lead paras. — DaxServer (t · m · c) 19:05, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm not saying language should be removed from the lead altogether, but that it doesn't need to be mentioned in the lead sentence. It has no impact on the quality of the article (Baahubali 2, for example). I don't see language being mentioned in the lead sentence for films from any other countries either, including ones with multiple languages. I might also add that the language of older Bollywood films (up until the 1980s) is disputed due to the Hindi–Urdu controversy (but that's a whole other topic). Maestro2016 (talk) 19:09, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

@Maestro2016: What about Bajrangi Bhaijan, Tanhaji? These are not from the 80s, but you've removed Hindi from the lead sentence and added Urdu in the infobox. I get that some characters in the film are supposed to speak Urdu, but are there sources in support of that? I mean the primary language in which the films are shot are only yo be mentioned. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 19:48, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

@Maestro2016: If the films are reportedly shot in Hindi then it should be kept as such. And sources would be needed for films like Amar Akbar Anthony, Kranti, Muqaddar Ka Sikandar as well. It is getting into unsourced/synthesis territory now - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 19:52, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

I'd say removing language is a downgrade to the quality of the article, let alone being an improvement. There's no way an WP:AVERAGE reader can guess that Tanhaji what language film is shot unless its specified, therefore it should be mentioned for all multi-lingual nations. Even Baahubali 2 (which is an exception, not a norm) clearly mentions that its shot in two languages at the earliest occassion. Also Urdu shouldn't have been added without sources/consensus that both languages are significant to be in the infobox per template instructions -- Ab207 (talk) 20:06, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

I think language is essential information to every film article lead, particularly Indian films where so many languages exist and the language entails much more than just the name of the language but also the particular film industry a film is associated with, the culture, often the location. Shahid • ^Talk2me 20:19, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't really have an issue with modern Bollywood films being called "Hindi-language" films (i.e. late 1980s onwards). However, it would be extremely problematic to label older films from the Bombay industry (up until early 1980s) as "Hindi-language" films, as it contradicts what a number of reliable sources have stated about the language spoken in the industry at the time. To quote Javed Akhtar in 2002:

I write dialogue in Urdu, but the action and descriptions are in English. Then an assistant transcribes the Urdu dialogue into Devnagari because most people read Hindi. But I write in Urdu. Not only me, I think most of the writers working in this so-called Hindi cinema write in Urdu: Gulzar, or Rajinder Singh Bedi or Inder Raj Anand or Rahi Masoom Raza or Vahajat Mirza, who wrote dialogue for films like Mughal-e-Azam and Gunga Jumna and Mother India. So most dialogue-writers and most song-writers are from the Urdu discipline, even today.

Urdu was the dominant language used by scriptwriters in Bombay at the time. This started changing around the 1980s, when a new generation of Hindi scriptwriters starting taking over from the older generation of Urdu scriptwriters. That's why it's problematic to use the "Hindi-language" label for older films (up until the early 1980s). Maestro2016 (talk) 21:14, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Well, it's another story. Urdu and Hindi are essentially two dialects of the same language, but the language of Bombay films has been officially known as Hindi (take, for one, film certificates). Gulzar took part in the writing of a book called Encyclopaedia of Hindi Cinema. I agree with you in principle and think that if individual references for specific films could be found to support the language, like it's done in the first source of Sholay then great. The quote by Javed Akhtar can't be used across the board because it would be WP:SYN. Shahid • ^Talk2me 21:57, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Javed Akhtar's quote can be used across the board for films written by himself. It's not WP:SYNTH, as the source itself lists those films among his credits. SYNTH is when you use two different sources, not the same source. Also, do you have a source for the film certificates? If not, then it's WP:OR to call it Hindi without citing a reliable source for it. Maestro2016 (talk) 23:37, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

The film itself is the first and primary source for any film, and every film mandatorily carries the CBFC certificate. Any one can verify that playing the film, like how we verify credits and plot. Any deviation form that would need support from additional sources, and consensus that its significant enough to be in the language parameter of infobox. -- Ab207 (talk) 06:22, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Completely agree with Ab207. Maestro2016, no, it cannot be used across the board and cannot be used at all in films he wrote, because he just spoke about what language he writes in; mind you he is not the sole writer of his films, and moreover, it doesn't mean the films are actually spoken in the language he used. We need sources to prove the language of the film, not something we discern, so it is definitely WP:SYN. Make no mistake, I don't disagree with you, but Wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth. Shahid • ^Talk2me 11:14, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

A little help?

Would any of you like to help me develop the Shoojit Sircar article? It's quite a shame such a fine director and a defining figure in India cinema has such a small sad page to his name. Meryam90 (talk) 01:53, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Improving List of Bengali actors

I recently created this article as I found there is List of Bengali actresses but not for male ones. Anyone can Improve the article. @@@XyX _talk 11:25, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

R. Muthuraman

A claim was made, by an user involved in Karna promotion (see this), that he is also known as "Pradeep Kumar", but no citations are provided. Could someone who knows the actor shed some light on this? Thanks! — DaxServer (t · m · c) 16:27, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

I have reverted, since there is no mention of it here or here. --Kailash29792 (talk) 05:29, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Dappan koothu

This page is currently at RM. I would appreciate if anyone took part in it, particularly those knowing Tamil. Kailash29792 (talk) 05:38, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Ramayana: The Legend of Prince Rama

1992 Indian-Japanese co-production, which is finally getting a proper 4K remaster and being screened in cinemas again. The article is kind of messy, but the main thing I want to expand is the reception section. The film was given limited screenings in 1993 and 2001, and I'd like to see if there's more reviews out there. So far I've only found two reviews from Variety. Presumably after it is screened in cinemas and released on home video it will receive yet more reviews and I'd like to find the older reviews to contrast them with. Harizotoh9 (talk) 10:08, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Million vs. Crore

My understanding as per MOS:COMMONALITY and MOS:CRORE is that we should still to millions/billions for the most part. If lakh/crore is used, it should always be accompanied by a link to the crore article and a conversion to millions. This is because English speakers in South Asia will understand million/billion but no one outside South Asia knows of crore/lakh. I am not sure if this has been discussed before and what the consensus on this issue is. Thoughts? Tow (talk) 03:06, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

There's arguments for the both sides but generally GA and FA approved Indian film articles use million through out. -- Ab207 (talk) 05:58, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

KGF

There's something smelly going on at K.G.F: Chapter 1 and K.G.F: Chapter 2. Please keep an eye over them! — DaxServer (t · m · c) 10:56, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Film/Indian cinema task force/Future films

Hello, all. DareshMohan and I have been cleaning up prematurely created future film articles. Many of these films have been prematurely created years before without adequate coverage, and could not see the light of the day. As they may not meet the WP:NFF guidelines for unreleased films, we are tagging, nominating for deletion, draftifying or redirected these films, whichever option is appropriate.

On the suggestion of DaxServer, we created at dedicated sub-page Wikipedia:WikiProject Film/Indian cinema task force/Future films as a centralized repository and monitoring of unreleased films. Its also added in To-do section on the main page. Interested members are requested to partake in this clean up, add or remove films, or raise any concerns. Thanks and regards -- Ab207 (talk) 08:58, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

It would be useful if you'd be able to write some criteria, for example, which you follow right now as to which articles go to Afd, PROD, draftification and redirection. I've a bit of anxiety if I want to send something for deletion, so draftifying all future films which don't meet WP:NFF. — DaxServer (t · m · c) 12:38, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

That's a good idea. I've added some general instructions. Feel free to modify them if needed. -- Ab207 (talk) 15:02, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

CINTAA as a source

Is CINTAA a reliable source for biographies? I have a discussion going at WP:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#CINTAA. Jay (talk) 07:08, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

BAN Jatinder Singh's BO numbers for South films.

Very recently a person named Jatinder Singh sitting in North writes Box Office collection for North & South films.

Question 1: None of the recently released BOLLYWOOD film's Wikipedia article uses Jatinder Singh number in the box office section. Why? If he is so credible as per few wiki users, why not take him as sources for Hindi films over bollywood hungama portal?

Question 2: Important point to be noted before going to the actual question - he doesn't know any south Indian languages, he doesn't review any south Indian films, he doesn't watch any south Indian films, he is never part of any south Indian film trade circle, he simply takes numbers from trade analysts tweet on Twitter and writes article by reducing actual Box Office figures with variation of ₹10 - ₹20 crore per day for all stars except Vijay. Shared plenty of proofs here as well as on multiple talk pages. On what ground does south wiki community believe to not only mention his degraded numbers, but also his opinions on the BO section of south films' wiki page?

Question 3: Till date Bollywood Hungama or BOI are trusted by many because of their 5-10 years of experience in the field plus most importantly they have Box Office frame work on their website where one can be able to search a film and go through the break up of collections with their complete database. On the other hand non-RS Pinkvilla with Jatinder Singh uses a normal site without any Box Office database where one cannot even search a film and get the complete data related to it. All are just articles, how could they be considered reliable on their own with this and what responsibility does him or the site assures?

There is an agenda spread by Jatinder Singh with pinkvilla as medium to degrade all actors except one particular actor. That person has the history of doing the same in Twitter.

For the welfare of South Indian Cinema, we hereby request to STOP considering Jatinder Singh as reliable for South films BO with just 2 months of writing his own numbers from non RS Pinkvilla.

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 01:41, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Update: User Ab207 was vouching so much for Jatinder Singh during Valimai and went on to say all other source figures are wrong except the great Jatinder. But for RRR movie none of his figures are used. Jatinder Singh's pinkvilla 1 week BO figure ₹680 crore. Why no question of using this number as compared to ₹710 crore? Looks like Ab207 is biased and works for a specific agenda with double standards. The user will say Valimai box office figures are disputed to ensure that his agenda wins by showing as neutral person. Even times of India uses Manobala Vijayabalan's figure as their own figure without mentioning his name for BheemlaNayak, Radhe Shyam BO articles.

Can he open a dispute for RRR movie? No, because his main aim was to show everyone that he is correct and others are wrong. Suddenly pinkvilla Jatinder Singh will become unreliable for RRR movie or any other bollywood movie but it will be the most reliable source for Valimai. Even the credibility of Jatinder Singh talk section was archived. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MovieBuffIndia (talk • contribs) 08:30, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Comment: From what I have been seeing from MovieBuffIndia for the past few weeks is that he is trying to push a POV that Jatinder Singh is an unreliable source so hard down other's throats. He has been threatening editors for using his figures and then backing up Manobala (which I and Ab207 have a bias towards due to a lot of people saying that he is an unreliable source when it comes to BO figures due to him originating from Twitter) for his own personal reasons. I say that this editor has to be either get a temporary ban or should be at least warned to a level where he stops this POV pushing because he has been trying to push this in a magnitude amount of articles for the past few weeks. SP013 (talk) 15:44, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Similarly, I see that few users are trying hard to create a false pov that Manobala Vijayabalan is unreliable where as every other source in India is reliable. Users who do that should also be banned as per your logic. Same personal reasons are with Jatinder Singh whose numbers cannot be used in any Bollywood movies. You are voicing so much for him, why can't you go ahead and update his article in Hindi, Telugu films? You make a fool out of Tamil people by making us to trust someone who is never part of Tamil trade never watches Tamil film, never speaks Tamil. We have to sit calmly if a north person cannot be taken as trusted source for Bollywood films, but he should be trusted for Tamil films. That too just by writing article in none RS pinkvilla for two months. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MovieBuffIndia (talk • contribs) 00:18, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Cinestaan

Is cinestaan.com reliable? — DaxServer (t · m · c) 16:39, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

• Reliable for film reviews and news as it has a full staff, whether box office figures are correct I wouldn't know but it's fine for uncontroversial matter in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 23:11, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
• Looks reliable for film content—has and editorial team with actual journalists as contributors. We need to recognize more film-centric sites in general that produce original content rather than some "national" news outlets which blatantly post info from blogs and twitter posts without any fact checking. -- Ab207 (talk) 05:59, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

List of highest-grossing Kannada films

Some editors are just inserting random values on K.G.F: Chapter 2. Please look into this and add protection to List of highest-grossing Kannada films TuluveRai123 (talk) 14:54, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

TuluveRai123, you can make this request at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection where the admins will look into it -- Ab207 (talk) 17:20, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Request for deleting an article

The article K.G.F: Chapter 3 is just a redirect to K.G.F: Chapter 2. I don't think that is needed. So please delete K.G.F: Chapter 3. The creator might have created the article thinking that there will another film in the same franchise but there is no official update from the film team. So it is of no use creating K.G.F: Chapter 3 and creating redirect to K.G.F: Chapter 2 TuluveRai123 (talk) 03:14, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

I probably will suggest against it as there is a lot of incoming traffic from somewhere [24]. Possibly KGF 2 might not be a perfect target. Will retargeting to Yash or the director work? — DaxServer (t · m · c) 08:35, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

I think we can do the same as you said we can redirect that article to the director. TuluveRai123 (talk) 10:23, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

I would suggest targetting it to either K.G.F: Chapter 2#Future or K.G.F (film series)#Development. Jay (talk) 11:26, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd prefer retarget to the series article. Planned projects of Hollywood franchises follow the same. -- Ab207 (talk)

I targeted that article to K.G.F (film series)#Development TuluveRai123 (talk) 13:16, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Yash (actor)

Did he change his legal name to Yash [25] ? — DaxServer (t · m · c) 17:44, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Idk but just saying it "legal" doesn't cut it. Closer investigation in reliable sources is needed as per the requirements of MOS:LEGALNAME -- Ab207 (talk) 20:00, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

On a cursory glance it appears most sources don't go beyond simply stating his birth name was such-and-such, but both his children were given Yash for their last name, which would atleast suggest so. DeluxeVegan (talk) 11:05, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Filmibeat.com

Is [26] a reliable source? A User has used [27] this as source for box office collection for K.G.F: Chapter 2 TuluveRai123 (talk) 03:59, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Sacnilk.com

Is sacnilk.com a reliable source? It's being used for box office figures by some editors but it looks like another faceless self-published site with no information on their author/editorial team. Propose to add to the list of unreliable sources if there are no objections -- Ab207 (talk) 12:41, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Despite a breakdown of day-by-day numbers, their About us page says they are yet another blogging platform. — DaxServer (t · m · c) 12:57, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Their breakdown definitely suspicious. That level of tracking by occupancy, district, format, time of show etc is unfound in any of our sources -- Ab207 (talk) 15:47, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello, MNWiki845. You might want to explain why you think sacnik is reliable -- Ab207 (talk) 12:33, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

• Added to the list of unreliable sources—evidently a blog site, no arguments in favour of its reliability -- Ab207 (talk) 14:39, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

K.G.F: Chapter 2

MovieBuffIndia is just adding MBV's source for K.G.F: Chapter 2 and when reverted he added that back. He is just involving in editing wars. He again states that it is mentioned that MBV's source are more reliable since it is mentioned in ICTF discussion. TuluveRai123 (talk) 05:05, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

@Ab207: need your help on this TuluveRai123 (talk) 05:06, 9 May 2022 (UTC) TuluveRai123 -

If you have looked at KGF Chapter 2, on a daily basis Manobala Vijayabalan's figure was used to update daily BO with reference from Hindustan Times, not by me, but everyone used. It looks like you were absent during the first 3 weeks of the film's run. You have been reverting everyone's edit without any discussion and blaming others as edit war. Refer ICTF archived discussion on why Manobala Vijayabalan is reliable and not Jatinder Singh from Pinkvilla.

@MovieBuffIndia: Well the discussion that you are stating is currently ongoing and it is only you who is saying that MBV is reliable and JS from Pinkvilla is not reliable. TuluveRai123 (talk) 05:13, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

There are two other discussion in archived section including the one with title as Manobala Vijayabalan. I have provided ample proofs over a month and senior community members have also said in multiple discussion pages to avoid using pinkvilla Jatinder Singh for BO. Edit history of KGF Chapter 2 clearly shows who engaged in 3RR. Community blocks those engage in such things. TuluveRai123 MovieBuffIndia (talk) 05:31, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

• For what it is worth, Pinkvilla's figure of 1107 crore from 6 May is higher than Manobala's estimate of 1095 crore for the same day. That's four days old and Manobala's current estimate is now 1154 crore. Logic would dictate that any estimate Pinkvilla would come up with can only be higher than what MV has given now. I'm not really stuck up on what source you use for the box office figures, but 1107 crore is obviously out of date. DeluxeVegan (talk) 09:57, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Can someone look into KGF 2 page please. I have been regularly updating the gross figures, its been reverted to May 6 data of 1107 cr, while its already made 1154 cr two days ago. Despite giving three creditable sources like NavBharat times, India Today and Newsday Express, its being revert to pinkvilla's data by Jayanthkumar123, same is being done to "List of Highest Grossing Indian Films".

That apart, if pinkvilla or sacnilk is accurate, then most of the Indian Movies Gross numbers are taken from there and source mentioned are from them. It cannot be for some movies these two sources are acceptable and for some these are not acceptable. It should be fair for everyone.Shark80 (talk) 10:25, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Ram Setu (film)

Please help with the draft. I've marked three issues in the current version — DaxServer (t · m · c) 11:53, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Vijay (actor)

There is something fishy going on with the images used in this article.

• File:Vijay 1996.jpg was uploaded to Commons by Orangetron, whose only edits have to do with two pictures of Vijay. Interestingly, the image was available on Imgur only from 20 July, the same date it was uploaded to Commons. Hmm...
• Same for File:Child actor Vijay photoshoot 1984.jpg, uploaded by another account, but on 20 July and available on Imgur only from the same day.
• File:Chinesefestival2011Vijay.jpg was uploaded on 4 June 2021 by 'Chan wong shen' (the name doesn't follow Chinese naming conventions but I digress) in their only upload as own work. I haven't reverse searched, so this might be genuine.
• But wait, File:JapanfanVijay2014.jpg was uploaded just four days later by 'Kasukimoto' in their only upload. You can't blame me for feeling someone is making up fake Chinese and Japanese names to upload these (possibly licensed) pictures unsuspectingly under different accounts.
• File:IARAVJ2018.webp featuring Vijay and a white dude uploaded by the dubiously named 'John odulus' on 4 June 2021, the same day as the Chinese Festival upload? You got to be shitting me. This is lowkey comedic gold.

The blatant copyright violations among these need to be removed from Commons and the other suspect uploads need to be looked into more closely. I hope someone here would look into creating into a deletion request (primarily because I'm not too aware of Commons norms and secondarily because I'm short on time). There possibly could be a backlog of more problematic images that are not presently used in the article, which is concerning. DeluxeVegan (talk) 15:12, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

The Kashmir Files lede

There is a RFC concerning the lede for a recently released film on Kashmir. Comments are welcome. TrangaBellam (talk) 07:53, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Daman Sood veteran sound engineer

Up for deletion, intervention required. ---- Ekabhishek^talk 05:52, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Nudity topic on Central Board of Film Certification

@VishvaGuru1 keeps adding his WP:SYNTH about CBFC not allowing nudity. Please check and help in consensus. Venkat TL (talk) 12:03, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Reliability of bookmyshow.com

I found a previous discussion here focusing on box office figures on this site. I contacted their customer service to ask about their fact-checking procedures for info about films posted to their site. I have received a reply stating that details of the cast and crew of films listed are provided by the makers of the films. So I asked specifically about the dates of birth of cast members of films, and they replied that the details of the film stars are also provided by the makers of the films. Given this information, what can we consider this site to be a reliable source for? --Geniac (talk) 17:05, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

BMS is a very poor source in my opinion with no evidence of editorial oversight. I came across incorrect or cooked up info about cast, birth dates and places etc.

1. Sobhita Dhulipala: Says born in Mumbai when her birthplace is Tenali
2. Vishwak Sen: Display 1 January when it's 29 March

Then there are instances of maintaning multiple profiles for the same person eg: [28], [29] which is an indication of lack of maintainance. ICTF has also desprecated using similar bios profiles published by The Times of India for the same reason.

As for BO figures (which are generally contentious for Indian film), I did not come ever across BMS publishing proper data like day wise figures, revenue in terms of gross, net or share. They usually write [Box office: XX crore] which is too ambiguous. So, any data published by BMS would be unusable for our purposes imv -- Ab207 (talk) 21:02, 28 May 2022 (UTC)