Talk:Bushranger

Bushrangers are only in Australia

Bushrangers are only in Australia because the woods as they would say in America in Australia they call it bush and rangers where bad people that either that got hanged or shot in prison and that is that why they call them bushrangers

"they are held in some esteem in some quarters, due to the harshness, pro-squatter outlook and anti-Catholicism of the colonial authorities whom they embarrassed and the romanticism of the lawlessness they represented."

Is this supposed to mean due to the harshness of the bush, the pro-squatter outlook of people who hold bushrangers in esteem, and that the colonial authorities were catholic (or anti-catholic)? --Nectarflowed 09:55, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It's meaning the colonial authorities were harsh, supported squatters (menaing if you bought land you couldn't guarantee you'd get to keep it), and were anti-Catholic (and anti-Irish). I think. The only thing I'm sure of is about the anti-catholicism of (primarily British/royalist) authorities--ZayZayEM 12:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

It would be useful to cross-link this section to Social Bandit, which covers the broader thing of crims being made into local heroes. Obviously there are a few big edits in the works so I leave it to you guys to do it best; plus, I'm lazy. 19:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.50.195 (talk)

ACOTF

OK, so it's been selected. Anyone got any guidance for what this article needs to become? personally, I think it should not be dominated by a list, but I'm all for List of Bushrangers being created with a very brief summary of what a bushranger is at the top, and some pictures of some of them.Garrie 04:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I think the history section need some expansion, with a better picture provided of the historical context which is too vague for a reader unfamiliar with the subject. Some more solid data regarding prevalence, laws, punishments etc would also be useful. I think it is very important that there is more thorough analysis of the public attitude towards them, the sympathy and the romanticisation as this remains a part of australian culture to this day. The current passage which deals with this has no citations and contains weasel words. The entertainment section should include some further analysis of how this image has been sustained. baby_ifritah 03:49, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

List needs to be booted out soon.--ZayZayEM 05:54, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Is this better?

Notable bushrangers

Name	Lived	Area of activity		Fate
Mary Ann Bugg	1834–1867	Hunter Valley-Tamworth-New England	Pneumonia
Joe Byrne, one of the Kelly Gang	1857 - 1880	North East Victoria	Shot by police
Martin Cash	c. 1808–1877	Tasmania	Prison sentence, released after 13 years
John Caesar	1764–1796	Sydney area	Shot
John Donohue, known as Bold Jack Donohue	c. 1806–1830	Sydney area	Shot by police
John Dunn	1846–1866	Western New South Wales	Hanged
John Francis	c. 1825–?	Victoria Gold Fields (1853)	Released after giving Queen's Evidence
John Fuller, known as Dan Mad Dog Morgan	c. 1830–1865	New South Wales	Shot
Frank Gardiner	c. 1829–c. 1904	Western New South Wales	Prison sentence, then moved to California
John Gilbert	1842–1865	Western New South Wales	Shot by police
Ben Hall	1837–1865	Western New South Wales	Shot by police
Steve Hart, one of the Kelly Gang		North East Victoria	Shot by police
Joseph Bolitho Johns, known as Moondyne Joe	c. 1828–1900	Western Australia	Numerous Prison sentences and died a free man
Henry Johnson, known as Harry Power	1819–1891	North East Victoria	Prison sentence, released
Dan Kelly, brother of Ned	c. 1854-1880	North East Victoria	Shot by police
Ned Kelly	c. 1854–1880	North East Victoria	Hanged
James Alpin McPherson, known as The Wild Scotchman	1842-1895	Gin Gin, Queensland	Died a free man
George Melville	1822–1853		Hanged
Musquito	c. 1780–1825	Tasmania	Hanged
Johnny O'Meally	1843–1864	Western New South Wales	Shot by farmer
John Paid, known as Wolloo Jack		from Stanwell Park terrorised Sydney area in the 1820s
Frank Pearson, known as Captain Starlight	1837-1899	New South wales	Accidental(?) poisoning (while working as a WA public servant)
Sam Poo	?–1865	Coonabarabran, New South Wales	Hanged
Billy Roberts (probably), known as Jack the Rammer		South Eastern New South Wales (1834)
Codrington Revingstone		South-West Victoria (1850)
Andrew George Scott, known as Captain Moonlite	1842-1880	near Gundagai, New South Wales	Hanged
Owen Suffolk	1829 - ?	Victoria	Died in prison?
Frederick Ward, known as Captain Thunderbolt	1833–1870	Hunter Valley-Tamworth-New England (1864–1870)	Shot by police
William Westwood, known as Jackey Jackey	1820–1846		Hanged
Jimmy Governor	1875–1901	New South Wales	Hanged

Garrie 05:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Sources

• Stand and Deliver website
• Senses of Cinema - a good paper on Bushranging films.--Mattinbgn/ ^talk 05:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Internal links

I think some of the internal links should be reconsidered as they are not specifically relevant. A couple of suggestions - move convicts link to convictism in australia, move railways to History of rail transport in Australia. thoughts on this??? baby_ifritah 04:06, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Good work on pointing those links to more specific articles. The more specific a link can be the better usually.

What would help, is if someone could provide a reference for the heyday being the gold rush - I know it's obvious as someone who knows about Australian history, but would it be obvious to someone trying to learn about Australian history?Garrie 03:04, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Entertainment

Just wanted to let everyone know that I am currently reworking the Entertainment section to give it a bit more depth and some chronological structure. This will take me a few days but I will keep an eye on it so I incorporate any new additions others make. I haven't worked on a collaborative effort before so I'm not sure if it is usual to mention this but I thought it might be useful information for any editors who can't decide where they would like to focus their improvements. xx baby_ifritah 13:48, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

good on you for mentioning it here before you do anything major. During collaborations like this sometimes different ideas clash.

I don't particulalry think I did a good first effort at mentioning the concept and I don't think Entertainment is the best section heading, but Bushrangers were widespread inspiration for novels, poetry, songs, and film. This is covered in reasonable depth but it needs a thorough rewrite to be more inspirational.

I really think that without too much trouble we could end up with Bushrangers in Australian film and literature as a seperate article.Garrie 03:00, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking of renaming the heading "Bushrangers and Australian culture" Maybe too broad, but covers folklore, films, novels, songs, theme parks like Glenrowan, sporting team usage e.g. Victorian Bushrangers and the lasting effect the "cult" of the Bushranger had on Australian culture.--Mattinbgn/ ^talk 03:18, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with that name, and not being a cricket-tragic, hadn't even thought of the use in sporting team names ;)

WTF is Glenrowan? I hope it's not in New South Wales or I'm really showing my ignorance!

Ned Kelly is a pretty widespread tattoo image. Dunno how we go about referencing that one though.Garrie 04:03, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Should have wikilinked Glenrowan, Victoria, Kelly Country. --Mattinbgn/ ^talk 08:04, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Apologies for delay. Stupidly lost my work but I am currently working on it in a sandbox and it will be fairly comprehensive. I will have it ready to post asap. xx baby_ifritah 14:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Evolution

I'm currently lookuing at a 1975 book published on the history of bushranging. Hopefully I'll be able to input some stuff.

It seems to me that the term bushranger went through a bit of evolution, and first (and probably properly) refers to a concept far different from the modern day association with the Kellys.

• first bushrangers were "bandits", escaped convicts, or "released" convicts escaping from the slave conditions they were released into. And forced to live of the land. The most villainous were, unsuprisingly in Tasmania (where the worst convicts were sent, and most harshly treated). Many died due to the wilderness of Australia, and blame was also placed on Aborigines.

• as more colonisation occured, with the development of things such as regular mail carts, travelling salesmen, farm plots - bushrangers hadmore of a chance of survival and thrived in this period (1820-40s). There was now enough people in the bush to rob, but not enough to stop them. The urbanisation that led to them thriving also destroyed them.

• as the article already mentions, urbanisation, particularly railways, of the bush led to bushranger demise. Police force was becoming more prevalent outside of the cities (perhaps due to ranger activities). This lead to the transformation from lone desparados, or small bands of villains - to the formation of coordinated gangs and organised crime and pseudo-revolutionaries, which is where the Kelly's probably fit in.

• bushrangers pretty much were replaced with "gang" style organised crime, as with urbanisation came the urban criminals.--ZayZayEM 01:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

The later part of this mirrors highwayman pretty much. Improved roads + increased commercial traffic -> greater demands that roads be policed -> end of the Bushranger / highwayman / western USA "outlaw" era.

The earlier part is, Bushrangers were "just" escapees who were more thieves than robbers (in that they most likely were opportunistic enough to steal without force being threatened or used). Garrie 02:50, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

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Captain Starlight wasn't Harry Re[a]dford

Captain Starlight is best known as the fictional character, which included exploits of Harry Redford and others. There was a real bushranger Frank Pearson who may have called himself Captain Starlight and maybe that is who should be listed in the table. Kerry (talk) 03:54, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

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