Talk:Flemish painting

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 January 2021 and 5 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mrosenberg93. Peer reviewers: Mrosenberg93.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:19, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 10 January 2019 and 5 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kaitlin Molden.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:31, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

First of many

Seing there exists a Flemish School article and a Primitives one, there should be matter merging. Also, Dutch and Flemish seem sometimes distinct and sometimes mixed (according to the period referred to and/or the sensitivity of some).

The goal of this article is to be encyclopedical :

• 1) I stumble upon a painter and he is flemish. The links refer to "painter" and "flemish" but never both.
• 2) I need to compare flemish painters : what they have in common, social or economical conditions, background, techniques, and in what they differ.
• 3) From a "flemish painting" article, I can go back to - any painter - any museum - any historical data, &c.

...logging ... I didn't see that you could create a talk page being unlogged. There should be links to sites about the subject (painters, museums and so on). --DLL 14:35, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Out with it.

Related articles:

• Early Netherlandish painting
• Dutch Golden Age Painting
• List of Belgian painters

If "Flemish painting" does not refer to a particular period or style, I think this article is useless and the information should be incorporated in the other articles. Piet 16:41, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree. If it is kept, the section on modern Flemish painting should be moved to a new article, since it uses 'Flemish' in a different sense - the modern, Dutch-speaking area of Belgium rather than the Germanic/Latin area referred to in the rest of the article.

Which is still confusing, of course, since many of the 'Flemish' artists didn't come from or work in the County of Flanders but rather Tournai, Brussels, Antwerp etc. 105.226.83.65 (talk) 19:03, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

You realize you are agreeing with a comment over 10 years old? This article should remain as a short page pointing to the various more detailed ones. Johnbod (talk) 19:21, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Rewrite or delete

In its current revision, this poorly written article adds nothing to already existing articles, as Piet rightly observes. It should be turned into a comprehensive article on the history of Flemish painting from Jan van Eyck to Luc Tuymans, or simply deleted. Karl Stas 10:29, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

After the Eighty Years' War, the Northern Netherlands became an independent republic (see Dutch Golden Age). Anyone in Dutch Golden Age painting does not belong under Flemish painting. From this period, Flanders belongs to the Southern Netherlands. So Rubens belongs here but not Rembrandt. Before the Eighty Years' Wars Flanders was not at all the same territory as the current Belgian region of Flanders, and the word Flemish was/is often used to denote painters who were not Flemish but who came to Flanders during their career. This makes it very difficult to give a meaningful sense to "Flemish painting". Moreover, categorizing people but their place of birth instead of the school they belong to is not very interesting anyway. In my (Flemish) eyes, "Flemish painting" can not be turned into a good article. Luc Tuymans and Jan Van Eyck may both be Flemish, but they were not from the same Flanders. Now that I think about it, the only reasonably thing seems to me to make a disambiguation page. Piet 12:05, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I think it all depends on how broadly you define "Flemish". But I think we both agree that the article, as it currently stands, has no place in a serious encyclopaedia. I'm willing to go along with the disambiguation solution. Karl Stas 15:00, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Go on. I'm neither a painting, neither a history specialist. What I stated is that you have to get a point - a portal - from where to collect and compare. --DLL 20:58, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Okay, you have a point, there should be an article Flemish painting. But I think it only has to treat Early Renaissance, Renaissance and Baroque. After this Flanders becomes part of Belgium and the painters are no longer referred to as "Flemish" (afaik). List of Belgian painters could be split up with List of Flemish painters. You will find a big gap in the list of Belgian painters, correponding more or less to the 18th century, that's when Flanders reverted to barabarism :-) after the protestant elite fled to Holland and the port of Antwerp was locked by the Dutch. The gap makes it very easy to split the Belgian painters list. The exception is Giuseppe Grisoni but I'm not sure if he can be called a Flemish or Belgian painter. I think he belongs under Italy. Btw. we should have an Art History student here. But I guess we can start without him. There is also a related article Northern Renaissance where I have proposed an article Renaissance in the Low Countries be created. Maybe I should ask for some help from the community. Piet 08:21, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

My suggestion. This page is sort of useless. There are better pages for Early Netherlandish painting and Dutch and Flemish Renaissance painting, which cover the Van Eyck to Pieter Brueghel the Elder. I would recommend either converting it to a discussion of Flemish Baroque Painting (maybe 1585-1700), as a counter-balance to the Dutch Golden Age painting article, or adding that page somewhere else and making this a disambiguation page. In the latter case perhaps there could be a solution with "Belgian Painters" of the 19th century to the present. That would cover all of the difficulties, I think. What do you think? --Stomme 02:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it looks like this is more or less a disambiguation page as it stands (was I looking at an earlier version?). Go ahead and disregard my previous statements. --Stomme 03:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

The Hieronymus_Bosch page states that his style "...contrasts with the traditional Flemish style of paintings, where the smooth surface attempts to hide the fact that the painting is man-made". This begs the question "What exactly is Flemish painting?", and this article doesn't answer that question. Are smooth surfaces universal to all Flemish painting? Are all smooth-surface oil paintings Flemish? Could Hieronymus Bosch's work qualify as "non-traditional Flemish art"? It seems like this article starts with the assumption that the reader already knows, for the most part, what Flemish painting is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.148.16.143 (talk) 05:42, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

POV and Confusing Chronology

"the closing of the port of Antwerp put an end to the economic and cultural significance of Flanders and sealed the shift of the center of gravity from the Southern to the Northern Netherlands (see Dutch Golden Age)." - Yes, economically the Southern Netherlands suffered, but it is not clear from the way this is presented (and this is about Flemish Painting) that Antwerp was one of Europe's most significant artistic centers for at least half of the seventeenth century. Rubens lived until 1640 and Jordaens, Teniers the Younger and others kept things going for a few more decades. With a heading called Decline there seems to be a clear POV here, unless the Flemish Baroque section is expanded a bit to demonstrate that economic decline and artistic decline do not necessarily go hand-in-hand. --Stomme 03:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Merger Proposal

See my comment on Talk:Dutch art Lithoderm (talk) 15:38, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

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Why: Flemish painting and not the historic: Flemish masters?

Seems someone wants to kill off the known historic term: Flemish masters. The NWO have truly gutted out any intelligencia left in the English-speaking world. Sigh. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.71.6.193 (talk) 08:40, 29 December 2017 (UTC)