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The giant Swiss bank UBS and that nation's government have agreed to settle a lawsuit brought against UBS by United States tax authorities, in an agreement that seems likely to result in giving the Internal Revenue Service access to thousands of previously secret U.S. client accounts. (Globe & Mail)
Does anyone think that his case is notable enough? It involves the "biggest military computer hack of all time." But in any case, we should wait until he gets convicted in the U.S. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:39, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hang on - Can we have some consistency please. Sir Bobby Robson who is more notable IMO has been updated by a line or two and its not on ITN where as Corazon Aquino is with a only a couple of lines of an update. Jason Rees (talk) 23:24, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I know. Please inform the administrator who posted as they seem to be ignoring this page and I'm doing all the cleaning up after them when I should be archiving July's ITNs... --candle•wicke23:34, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I do not deam (deem?) this death of international signifance. Maybe if she was in office at the time of her death then it would be notable, but otherwise, no. Just no. JollyΩJanner23:56, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OMG this is ridiculous... we just put Aquino in hypothetical situation just last week... did our regulars not notice that? i find this fairly freaky. and btw i opposed all deaths in hypothetical... i must say i change my vote for this. Ashish-g5504:31, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For the first time on ITN i actually feel bad about what happened. Can i please request that the hypothetical situations page be deleted. thanks (we did the little survey now there is no need of it either) Ashish-g5504:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nope. im not sayin it had anything do with anything. i just dont like the fact that we discussed the death of a living person that dies the next week. whatever the cause maybe. its just feels wrong now... Ashish-g5505:29, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Were any of the people killed in Death Note famous or notable though... I wonder does it work for the non-deaths and if Dick Cheney is going to be arrested now... --candle•wicke17:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The death must meet one or more of the following criteria:
The deceased was in a high ranking office of power, and had a significant contribution/impact on the country/region.
The deceased was a very important figure in their field of expertise, and was recognised as such.
The death has a major international impact that affects current events. The modification or creation of multiple articles to take into account the ramifications of a death is a sign that it meets the third criterion.
There appears to be some misunderstanding about the criteria. Criteria 1 refers to the situation preceeding the death NOT the situation several years back. From what I can tell Sir Bobby Robson was not in a high ranking office of power and had not been for a while. Also, the second criteria similar refers to a situation preceeding the death. Nil Einne (talk) 05:23, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - If youre going to apply that critera then you need to apply it to Corazon Aquino as well as she wasnt in a high ranking office of power at her death.Jason Rees (talk) 16:49, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Since Nil Einne objected above, I'd like comments from long-time ITNers like Spencer or Tone, before I consider posting this. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:36, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Highly respected guy, and well thought of, but even as a football fan in England I can't suggest that there is any way that his expected death after a long illness is news of global significance. Ability of the press to generate respectful quotes about a person does not prove that person's significance (stick a mike under the Prime Minister's nose and ask him for a comment, and he is not likely to say anything against the guy who has just died), and minutes of silence at football matches seem to happen several times a season since the post-Diana public grief syndrome. What I must query is the objection on the grounds that the article has not been significantly updated since his death: all that is encyclopaedically relevant in this case is the fact that he has died: are the ITN-watchers suggesting that pages should be significantly biased towards recent events? Kevin McE (talk) 07:33, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
IMHO, the requirement of more than one sentence update in a biography article after the person has died is ridiculous. Even the media reports don't usually say much more about the death itself, and concentrate on describing the person's life instead. Offliner (talk) 07:39, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Significant update means more than one line, not paragraphs or sections. It would refer to the reactions of people, the international community, etc. and could take about three to four lines that's all. I don't think this would swing the FA one way or another. I'm not sure an insufficient update is a reason to object. What I noticed about this one was the reactions from people from different countries and the President of his sport's global governing body. What needs to be determined is if consensus deems him notable enough for ITN based upon the available sources. --candle•wicke17:51, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Object I live in the Barcelona region, and I could find half-a-dozen news items more worthy of ITN than this one just from the last week. Physchim62(talk)23:57, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This was just a car accident, and I don't think the fatality is high enough. (Bombing attacks are quite a different matter.) --BorgQueen (talk) 04:14, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No major injuries reported. No mention of death whatsoever. Two US sources indicating no international coverage has been verified right now. No reason for me to support. --candle•wicke16:10, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Firefox passes its 1st billion mark. i think this is pretty big. first time ever a browser other than IE has done this and open source at that. BBC. Probably one of the biggest open source accomplishments over private companies in a long time. Ashish-g5515:21, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
besides we put sports records like this one all the time... dont even remember when we had an internet related item on ITN last time Ashish-g5515:28, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
not records... wrote it wrong. it is statistics. a prestigious one. but its ok i just thought should mention it cause its the first since IE. a better one would be to beat IE in user share i suppose. Ashish-g5518:05, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Precisely. It's not an accomplishment over IE since if Firefox has 1 billion and IE has one gazillion it would be a completely meaningless accompishment in comparison to IE. An accomplishment over IE would be a larger marketshare then IE or something Nil Einne (talk) 06:50, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure why these 6 satellites would be so notable. The only reason the BBC is mentioning them is that some of them were British. Offliner (talk) 03:23, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No... It's just that there are many satellites being launched all the time (see 2009 in spaceflight), but we usually don't put them in ITN, so I don't know why this one would be more important than all the others we didn't put in ITN. The only reason this launch received some press is because some of the satellites were British. But I don't know, what do others think about putting this in ITN? Offliner (talk) 19:45, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Space missions are standard ITNs and can even be found at WP:ITNR. The fact that some may not get posted is possibly down to them not being nominated or being ignored by editors. This one is most likely to go the same way even though I tipped people off by posting the link here yesterday. I didn't even check but if there are six satellites that should surely be all the more notable. Plus Kazakhstan doesn't usually get nominated for launching satellites (or nominated at all actually). But that was my thinking anyway. --candle•wicke23:10, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I think this only notable from a certain point-of-view. Besides, there is no article, and it would be silly to write one about this. Offliner (talk) 03:25, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support too. I left lots of sources on the talk page yesterday which verify that it's being covered in several European countries, Australia, Asia, Africa and North America. It is also probably significant for its lack of death considering the scale of the injuries. --candle•wicke13:58, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
2 articles but should their only be 1 blurb? if they are totally unrelated then we shouldnt put them together. it will mislead people into thinking they are related in some way... Ashish-g5515:11, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I'm aware the Spanish authorities have blamed both attacks on ETA and given that both were aimed towards the Civil Guard I think the link is more than likely true. If that is the case they will need to be listed together --Daviessimo (talk) 15:18, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the BBC are now reporting that both airport and port have been closed and given that Majorca is a tourist mecca in Europe that is going to have huge implications. The port is a central turnaround point for Cruise Ships and the airport handles somewhere in the region of 800 flights a day during the summer months --Daviessimo (talk) 15:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
BBC - "Around 70% of Nigeria's bandwidth was cut, causing severe problems for its banking sector, government and mobile phone networks." Multiple countries involved. Ashish-g5513:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It would be interesting but they do not even know which perfume or if it even was the perfume... right now it looks like some random carbon monoxide leak. Ashish-g5514:31, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I would have supported if the sacking was done the other way around. (FM sacking PM) Sounds ridiculous, I know, but it would make a nice headline. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:38, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Colour makes my smileFunny thing… A lot of colour (color to all you Americans out there), has appeared on this page recently. It really brightens up the serious topic of news. Thank you! Cargoking talk 15:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm more than happy to update the article once I get back from work just over an hour from now. Of course, if someone can update earlier I have no problem with that. Otumba (talk) 15:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I would disagree with the more general point. IMHO there are definitely others, e.g. Shahrukh KhanNil Einne (talk)
i actually was thinking about him too but bachchan has been there since early 70s. maybe in 10 more years i will say same about shahrukh too. my point had to do with comparisons to cinemas worldwide. within bollywood sure there are more people... Ashish-g5502:14, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of people aren't too hot on Internet articles appearing on ITN. Nonetheless, it seems to have notability enough to appear on ITN. I'm on the fence, though. SpencerT♦Nominate!15:46, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The danger being that this is the Internet, this is a website and that posting any or every web story that occurs risks being biased... will it change the world? --candle•wicke16:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's the lead story on the AP wire right now, according to Yahoo News. (Or maybe Yahoo Inc. has some influence on the placement of stories?) -- Mwalcoff (talk) 16:43, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe I'm naive, but I doubt Yahoo messes with the order of AP stories. I've seen stories on there that make Yahoo Inc. look bad. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 19:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Efforts to free two aid workers from Ireland and Uganda who were kidnapped in Darfur on 3 July are said to be "ongoing". (RTÉ)
Iran releases 140 people detained in its post-election unrest as the supreme leader orders a prison where jailed protesters were killed be closed. (The Daily Telegraph)(Press TV)
AIDS campaigners and human rights groups accuse the Cambodian government of herding HIV-affected families into an "Aids colony" outside Phnom Penh. (The Guardian)
quite a bit of deaths lately. not that they went on main page but i think we rejected some that were more notable than this... Ashish-g5517:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Candlewicke, I support because Cunningham was the greatest living choreographer. It might help your cause if you can explain why Walter Cronkite, one of the two greatest broadcast journalists who ever lived, did not go up. :-) -SusanLesch (talk) 17:52, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Um, consensus maybe? I thought Cronkite was called the greatest though? I'm just doing as I always do, browsing the newspapers and raising anything which may be possible. My "cause" is not to see this posted over any others. --candle•wicke17:57, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
i am going to oppose this on the basis that he was great in his field but not famous worldwide. I think deaths should only go up if they are at MJ level. Every field will have a "greatest" and every country has their own fields too so its just too many to put on. Ashish-g5518:06, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
well i worded it poorly. by international i dont mean few countries. i mean like MJ fame. I would put Nelson Mandela in in MJ category. so that kind of notability. but its upto other ppl i suppose. i just think deaths should be a lot stricter than other news. Ashish-g5518:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I still have my principle of unexpected death not going up unless they are extenuating circumstances. I go to an arts academy and don't know who Cunningham is. I'm afraid I'll have to oppose. Therequiembellishere (talk) 19:30, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm gonna have to say oppose on this one. It seems that putting Jacko's death up has opened the proverbial flood gates with regards to deaths! Anyway my reasons are the same as always. Whilst this person may be well known in their field, the age of death is, for me, the problem. Had they been 50 I would probably support, because they were internationally known in their field and the death would have been unexpected. As it is, Cunningham was 90 and thus the death is not unexpected. I tend to agree with Ashishg's logic that anyone who goes up on ITN at this age, has to be known well enough for who they are or what they have achieved and I don't think Cunningham passes this test. I always use Tim Berners-Lee as the acid test - say his name to someone and they'll probably never have heard of him - tell someone what he was famous for and everyone knows that --Daviessimo (talk) 19:51, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine, I had never heard of this person either. However, it is difficult to determine just who exactly is well-known (even Michael Jackson is probably unknown on a remote island somewhere) so I just thought I'd nominate this one as it was an American getting a great obituary in The Times of the UK. --candle•wicke20:13, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Disgusting, but I'm not sure that he's a high-enough level politician to go up. However, we did have the Eliot Spitzer prostitution thing up (or was it removed?). SpencerT♦Nominate!19:08, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There is a need to be consistent though... if US states go up then why not Indian or Chinese regional divisions for example... --candle•wicke20:16, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Why New York and not Kashmir? Because this is the English-language encyclopedia and we have many times more users in the U.S. than in India or China, despite the large populations of the latter countries. News value doesn't follow mathematical logic -- you can't say "If X is newsworthy and Y is another country's version of X, than Y is newsworthy." That's not how it works. No news outlet works that way. Note that I'm not opposing the nomination, just making a point about making comparisons. And yes, I know English is a lingua franca of India. Come to think of it, we probably do have many readers in India (although not nearly as many as in the U.S. or UK), and if this is a super-major story nationally in India, I'd be supportive of it going up. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:20, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I am not supporting/opposing as i dont yet know enough about this issue. just to comment on Mwalcoff's point. ur logic still resides on the fact that wikipedia has more users in US so new york news is more prominent. This is flawed logic. As u said this is english language "encyclopedia". news value is not determined by which users visit the encyclopedia its determined via logical comparison to other prominent news. a comparison with users visiting from particular country can never make rich encyclopedia. it will only contain similar type events hence heavily biased. Ashish-g5521:31, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No, that wasn't my argument at all! Neither is worthy of the main page IMHO. If your not a major national official, I couldn't care less if you're thrown out because you screwed some secretary! Therequiembellishere (talk) 21:37, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
@ Mwalcoff: And if the sources are available and someone (who may not even be from that country but still might be interested) is willing to spend time nominating, preparing and updating it? Should it still be refused then because some readers might not be interested in the politics of what to them is such a faraway place? --candle•wicke21:43, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
ok after reading properly. i oppose on grounds that its just some random resigning. if he killed a person and thats why he was forced to resign then it would be a lot more interesting. ppl sleeping with prostitutes is really not ITN material. I think it was mistake to post it for US case and it would be repeating the mistake for this case (even though for sake of being neutral it should be posted but seriously this isnt ITN worthy news). Ashish-g5521:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
@Candlewicke: If it meets all other ITN criteria, I wouldn't mind putting it up because I think we ought to strive for geographical diversity. However, at the same time, I object to the kind of mathematical-logical reasoning that I talked about. You can't draw exact comparisons between two countries, nor should we make blanket statements like, "Sub-national political news should not go up on ITN." Not to pick on the Third World, but I'd bet there would be a lot more interest among our readers in Sarah Palin's resignation as governor of Alaska or something involving Arnold Schwarzenegger than in a national-level event in São Tomé and Príncipe and, just as importantly, the namespace article about Palin or Arnold is likely of much higher quality than that of the president of São Tomé and Príncipe. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Lol, no problem. :) Right, is the article ok now? Also, looking at the AP source cited, Belliraj wasn't convicted of the murders. He has been accused of them, but he wasn't charged on those. Perhaps a better ITN sentence might be one that revolves around his conviction for plotting terrorist attacks in Morocco? Otumba (talk) 17:10, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Gotcha. Looking again at the suggested ITN sentence above, it doesn't say he was convicted for murder, so my apologies for the misreading. However, I think it does give the impression he was convicted for murder. How about this for a suggestion: Abdelkader Belliraj, accused of leading an Islamist militant group, is sentenced to life in prison for plotting attacks in Morocco? Otumba (talk) 17:19, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support a major international meeting on foreign and economic policy including dozens of officials, many of them in their cabinets. The G2 dominant nations with the East and the West. Therequiembellishere (talk) 19:30, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the recognition. I spent a lot of time updating this page. More information will roll out later today once the meeting is concluded. I want to thank the other contributing editors too for their good work. Poliphile (talk) 19:55, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Seven people are killed in hurricane-force winds reaching 130 km/h in Poland and two more are killed by wind in the Czech Republic. Hail falls on 60,000 hectares of crops in Austria, causing damage of at least €20 million. (Sydney Morning Herald)(BBC)
I have to point out that in the soccer world, I don't think this tournament is that enormous of a deal. Not as big as the UEFA Euro tournament, certainly, and certainly less prominent in the host country than a lot of other events we don't put up on ITN. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 05:26, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think any soccer tournament that Canada (FIFA ranking 92) has won twice must be pretty much a joke in the soccer world. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 05:14, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
theres only so many countries in North america and canada winning in a north american only tournament isnt that crazy. maybe it is not upto european soccer level but its still multiple countries and if we add europe only tourney's i see no reason not to have this too. i agree its not too exciting but its for sake of being neutral. Ashish-g55 (talk) 17:56, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
But I mean there are a lot of other North American sporting events that generate far more interest than the Gold Cup that we don't have on ITN. This to me reflects the problems with saying "All items of type X should go on ITN" or "No item of type X should go on ITN" rather than looking at things on a case-by-case basis. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 18:07, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think you're being a little short sited here. The Gold Cup does not start and end in North America - you also have Central America and the Caribbean. Football is a big deal in countries like Costa Rica, Honduras and Mexico (it's so big in Mexico that one of the US club teams is named after one of the biggest Mexican clubs, due to the large Mexican population in California!). Just because it will not cause much interest in the US, is not a valid reason for this not to go up --Daviessimo (talk) 18:32, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Is the Gold Cup that big of a deal in Central America and the Caribbean? I don't honestly know. I would think Copa America would be a bigger deal in Mexico. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:26, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It says this is a charity game... i am not familiar with this so i will assume u were being sarcastic (correct me if im wrong)... and if u were being sarcastic then please try not to nominate such items in future since it makes this page extra long for no reason. thanks Ashish-g55 (talk) 15:27, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like it may be an isolated incident without wider implications? If the article is very good, and can well demonstrate a connection to the wider conflict then I'd support, but otherwise not. Offliner (talk) 17:28, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning towards support but do you think that enough info is out there to write about? The news releases are mostly too short to get anything much out of them. --BorgQueen (talk) 14:05, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Annually reported and on the recurring events list. Armstrong's comeback achievement deserves a mention, as does a team getting two men on the podium, but I would be opposed to mentioning 3rd place if we don't name 2nd. I'd suggest against linking the countries, otherwise there is far more blue text than black. If there is concern that readers won't know what sport this deals with (I would be happy to assume recognition, but...), the genitive cycling's could replace the as the fifth word: I'd suggest dropping 96th in this instance. The most appropriate looking pic on Contador's item is probably File:Contador2.jpg, which at least has him in a yellowish jersey (it is actually the gold jersey of the tour of Spain) and his current team's insignia (albeit last year's version thereof). Kevin McE (talk) 07:23, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ready! Conta wins! TouLouse 15:49, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
After looking at the article, it could probably use some section dividers, and infobox, and a little more information about the Greek fires before it goes up. SpencerT♦Nominate!20:08, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Posting soon. Btw, the picture you've added above is a really bad one, even at a greater resolution, I wouldn't use it in the article at all. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:55, 26 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Harry Patch
"Harry Patch, the last surviving World War I veteran to fight in the trenches, dies at age 111."
I'm not sure whether we should put him up, as he is the last to fight in the trenches, or wait until the final veteran passes. --PlasmaTwa221:10, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Afghan President Hamid Karzai, setting out his election manifesto, vows to make foreign troops sign a framework governing how they operate in a bid to limit civilians casualties. (Reuters)
Canada's national rail service, Via Rail, cancels train service due to a strike by its engineer workers. (CTV)
A group of 8 people were trapped for 8 hours in an Otis elevator in Toronto. A repair man who tried to fix the elevator fell 10 floors to his death. (CityNews)
Sounds a bit speculative to me. The U.S. officials are not 100% certain. I mean, it is not that they have his body or some tangible proof. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:03, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hundreds (perhaps more) of species are discovered every year. Are we going to feature them all? I think the new species will have to have some "abnormal" chracteristic to be on ITN, like Titanoboa. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:19, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
ya i was skeptical too about this. since we just had the salamander. well maybe we dont need to go to Titanoba all the way. thats like waiting for dinos to come back lol. Ashish-g55 (talk) 16:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Report of successful breakthrough in stem cell research, without the need for embryonic stem cells
Chinese researchers from the Shanghai Stem Cell Institute, led by Professor Fanyi Zeng, sucessfully reprogrammed adult stem cells taken from skin tissue to be able to differentiate into any body cell, the reprogrammed cells known as "induced pluripotent stem cells" (IPS cells). The researchers have managed to use the IPS cells to create every type of cell in a mouse, creating entire mouse pups using the technique. This is the first time the technique has been used to make an entire mouse. The oldest living mice created by the technique are nine months old and are reproducing, albeit showing signs of abnormalities. A total of 27 mice were successfully born from the first generation of mice created from the IPS cells which were able to reproduce without any issues. This breakthrough, published in the journals Nature and Cell Stem Cell and developed independently by two teams in China, may possibly depreciate the usage of stem cells obtained from human embryos. (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) -- 李博杰 | —Talkcontribsemail12:01, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I will be unable to edit in the next few days up to Wednesday, due to examinations, and so probably will not be able to expand the article further. Just a quick note at that. -- 李博杰 | —Talkcontribsemail23:59, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The iPS cells were generated from embryonic fibroblasts, not adult stem cells (says both the Nature and Cell Stem Cell paper). Both adult stem cells and fibroblasts have been made iPS cells before, the news is that they got whole mice (non-chimeric even) out of the cells. Narayanese (talk) 16:41, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I know the result hasn't been announced yet, but because of the certainty amongst the press and analysts that the Conservatives will win, I thought to pre-empt the announcement with this suggestion. Of course, it will need to be confirmed that Smith has won before it goes up, if it goes up. I know this is just a by-election, but I think it is deserving of a place in ITN, because it is the first of the type since the expenses scandal, and because this was a safe Labour seat. Having said this, I understand if the nomination is opposed; I just thought what's the harm in trying. Otumba (talk) 11:30, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I have to oppose, we really feature just top-level elections, such as parliamentary and presidential. --Tone11:34, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Unless it leads to a snap election, the PM's resignation or some other significant political action it not going to be big enough for ITN. --Daviessimo (talk) 16:11, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Two traffic accidents in one day, if the articles are updated enough, I would support having them in one blurb together. --Tone13:17, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A perfect game is the ultimate pitching accomplishment in baseball. The pitcher gets out all 27 batters he faces in a row, not allowing a single hitter to reach first base. It has happened only 18 times since 1880, the previous time in 2004. Sox fan Barack Obama called Buehrle to congratulate him after the game. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:12, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As far as i can tell this is considered hard to do. but this isnt a record... Martin Brodeur's all time record wasnt added since it was considered too "domestic" in nature. This is a perfect game in MLB which is also "domestic". So i do not know... i will give it a weak support since there is no guarantee he will not do it again tomorrow. statistically it shouldnt happen but that is what we said for Kaká trade which got beat like the next week. Ashish-g55 (talk) 00:21, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support A perfect game has happened only 18 times in well over 100 years. No pitcher has ever done it more than once. This is by far the most notable option. Alexfusco501:09, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose We didn't put Brodeur's all-time record up, and last time I checked that only happened once. Keep non-championship games out of ITN, please. --PlasmaTwa203:32, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose Also, let's keep non-British sports out. Less baseball, more test cricket. Let's keep Wikipedia British-centric. Nutmegger (talk) 04:44, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I oppose this one as well. This goes into the category of sport statistics and I am against those in most cases. Since there is a clear opposition to this entry above, I have replaced it with one of the previous entries. --Tone07:51, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For me the only sporting stats worthy of going up are very top level world records and firsts. However, even then I'm leaning towards opposing those because with modern athletes and technology they are being broken and beaten ever more often. --Daviessimo (talk) 08:52, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes but it is not a world record or world first is it? Even if it were, I still feel that sporting records are broken so often that it kind of makes them redundant. I mean where do you draw the line at notability? Is Jaime Alguersuari becoming the youngest ever F1 driver on Sunday notable? The previous record has stood since 1980, which is much longer ago than the last 'perfect game' in MLB --Daviessimo (talk) 09:33, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you think about it, you can't "break a record" for a perfect game, unless of course you do it twice in a career, or if the game extends into a gazillion innings.
And I dunno about Alguersuari, but a perfect game requires that the pitcher's team win the game. We did this for Vettel when he became the youngest driver ever to win, so that make sense. –HowardtheDuck09:40, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes but Vettel was a world record, in arguably the most international sporting championship on the planet. I'm no expert on baseball (in fact I know hardly anything) but surely this fella will start the next game still 'unbeaten' as it were. He has in one game got out 27 batters for nothing. In the next game if he gets out the first batter for nothing surely he moves onto 28 unbeaten and it will continue like this. If that is the case the equivilant world record would be when he reaches and exceeds the highest number of batters out, without any of them reaching first base. --Daviessimo (talk) 09:57, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think Buehrle will play at least after 4 games, and I dunno if they kept records the way you are saying. No one has had a perfect game twice in his career, and I think the "perfect game" doesn't carry over the way you said it, unless he pitches perfectly the next game, which has never happened. –HowardtheDuck10:17, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hence i suggested using NHL's goalie scoring goal as a measurement tool. That has only happened 11 times too so if u can agree on posting it everytime it happens then i guess perfect game can go up too. i gave a weak support earlier because of rarity factor but if something rare in one sport gets posted then it should be posted in others too. Ashish-g55 (talk) 13:00, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I dunno if we compare this with NHL goalies though. The perfect game is a test on how good a pitcher is. A goalie scoring a goal is more of a feel-good story. I'd like it if a goalie breaks the record for most consecutive shutouts or something like that. –HowardtheDuck13:53, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
But do we really wanna put ITN item when someone does good at a game that they play professionally? Im sure every game has certain way of displaying how great a player is. Thats why we usually stick to records since they need to be broken. A perfect game is just display of how good u r at a certain game that is mainly only played in one country. now if he goes on a perfect game streak somehow then that becomes a record and we can put something like that for sure. So i am going to take my weak support back and put an oppose for this reason. Ashish-g55 (talk) 14:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Its interesting to see non-baseball fans come up with reasons to keep baseball news off the page. A perfect game is a big deal. The object of the game defensively is to get batters out and a perfect game is 27 of them in a row. I suppose retiring the entire team without any runs in cricket would be the equivalent but that would be much less common because scores are much higher in cricket than in baseball. These rarity discussions are absurd non sequiturs. A goalie scoring a goal is a fluke thing. Its like striking out four batters in an inning or something. I'm OK with the perfect game being taken off the ITN, but using rare flukes to demonstrate that great feats are not notable is bizarre logic.DavidRF (talk) 15:10, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A goalie scoring a goal is not a fluke... everything can be considered fluke by ur logic. Goalies intentionally try to score goals many times and it pretty much never happens as it is not easy. So calling their feat a fluke is also very absurd. No matter what this feat falls under a rare event in a game category. This is not a record in any way. For ex. if a country were to just invent a game tomorrow and call this one aspect of game very hard to accomplish then would we post it everytime it happens? A major record in a game i can understand atleast it needs to be broken. Ashish-g55 (talk) 15:18, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And also the entire conversation above has nothing to do with being a fan or not... we are constructively trying to discuss notability and calling the discussion an attempt for "non-baseball fans come up with reasons to keep baseball news off the page" is almost offensive. Ashish-g55 (talk) 15:24, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Goalies scoring goals in hockey most certainly is a fluke thing. It pretty much never happens because teams almost never try! You'd be hard-pressed to find any real hockey fans who associate this feat with greatness. If it was such a big deal, goalies would spend less time guarding their own net. Perhaps "fluke" is too disrespectful, but its a very odd feat. A pitcher actually wants to retire every batter he faces. And baseball wasn't just invented. Its been around a while. :-) I'm OK with the perfect game not making ITN because its going to happen about every five years or so and every-five-year feats would clog up ITN if they were included for all sports, but please don't use your goalie-goal example in the future, its completely ridiculous and in my opinion unconstructive. I apologize for the "keeping baseball news" off the page remark. Especially since I concur with the conclusion here. Cheers.DavidRF (talk) 15:52, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
i wouldnt really include either events. goalie goal is just example of a rare event for a sport. and my point is adding all the rare events no matter how great the feat is probably not a good idea. Ashish-g55 (talk) 16:12, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
2 new works of mozart have been found. Not too many details yet. they are to be released Aug 2. i think this is definitely noteworthy but maybe wait till more details arrive? Ashish-g55 (talk) 22:41, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I was looking at this one of the BBC website and thinking it looks like a good item. However, I think we need to wait for official confirmation, which will be given next week --Daviessimo (talk) 08:38, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a bit skeptical. Discoveries like these are not uncommon. They tease the press with a news release and then very little ever comes of it. I guess we'll see on Aug 2. Hope I'm wrong.DavidRF (talk) 14:31, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
300mm lol. well i guess it could save gas somehow. help reduce global warming... but seriously speaking if it somehow moved 3km then it would be a little more significant Ashish-g55 (talk) 17:40, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The decision appears to be significant, but the article Abyei has a POV tag. I would appreciate if anyone could resolve the issue so we could have the item on ITN. --BorgQueen (talk) 13:29, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not exactly an expert on this topic, so I'm kinda hesitating to add more information. BTW: The Shoemaker-Levy 9 impact has only two sentences as well. --bender235 (talk) 15:08, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I know this is up for July 22. but since the eclipse is going to start a little before 22nd with totality being 2 hours in according to UTC, i suggest putting this up earlier so ppl know about it. It is not really Crystal balling since it is an eclipse and it will happen lol. plus 22nd will start earlier in nations that will actually see the eclipse. Ashish-g55 (talk) 15:06, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just to elaborate. the reason why i want this to go up early is because the noteworthy part is the fact that its the longest eclipse for the century. and putting this item after it has happened is fairly useless since then its just an eclipse that took place... its mainly noteworthy before it takes place so people know about it and can go watch it. Ashish-g55 (talk) 15:29, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A 260-car pile-up on a German motorway. [23] This must have broken some record, even if the police's claim that it is the worst in their history is not true. --BorgQueen (talk) 16:01, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Can i suggest that we start a 2009 Monsoon article and merge the 2009 India floods and the 2009 Karachi floods into it since theirs going to be a lot more deaths to come from the monsoon. Jason Rees (talk) 09:41, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This item is on WP:ITNR, as one of the four golf majors, so it needs to be put up ASAP. It has a referenced prose update so there shouldn't be an issue --Daviessimo (talk) 08:09, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oh I know about it, it was just that the words "Afghanistan" and "helicopter" no longer excite me when mixed with a few deaths... is it particularly unusual? --candle•wicke17:13, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
16 civilians killed in the latest in a string of deadly aircraft crashes in the country (per cite) Should we create an article ? TouLouse (talk) 17:21, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I will check again. The information is somewhat limited and being repeated by the same sources; even the BBC article is very short. --candle•wicke16:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"The release of the images coincides with the 40th anniversary of the first manned mission to land on the Moon." Hmmm... something fishy about all this... it's almost like they got released on purpose... --candle•wicke02:07, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
lol i know. the hoax ppl will say they were doctored. but come on its NASA... i dont wanna lose my trust in everything out there. Ashishg55 (talk) 02:13, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oh you're probably right but if I found it that easy to question their validity I doubt the real hardcore conspiracy theorists will bat an eyelid at them... --candle•wicke02:26, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
nonetheless ppl will be interested in looking at these images as a proof that landings did take place. theorists can deny anything... its just called being in denial after these pics Ashishg55 (talk) 04:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
ok so the lunar landing 40th anniversary is tomorrow. it would make great news item. i am not sure how much is being covered by OTD. Ashish-g55 (talk) 15:56, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
An intention that has been stated publicly several times as a mission of LRO. Still, this does not rise to the level of notability. And some conspiracy theorists will never be convinced no matter how much evidence is laid before them, despite the utter lack of concrete evidence to prove a conspiracy. See Penn & Teller: Bullshit!, episode "Conspiracy Theories". --Kitch(Talk : Contrib)19:14, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just a video? I don't think so... Isn't he still alive? Last time I nominated a slain captive and oppositions were overwhelming. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:52, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A woman is killed and two people are seriously injured in an accident involving a motorcycle on the Tour de France in France, the race's first fatal accident since 2002. (BBC)(RTÉ)
Since we're on the subject... world's oldest man/oldest mother? Not much difference really (if it's not too late). She was from Spain and this has been reported in the UK, US, Canada, Ireland, India. There has been continuing coverage and comment on ABC, in The Times, Calgary Herald and several others. Other countries and languages such as this, this and this mention her name this week as well. Seems to have as much coverage (if not more) as the Russian and some more than the American so I thought she deserved a nomination. --candle•wicke18:57, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm trying, but it is proving difficult. Most of the news articles just have a single sentence mentioning Breuning. I'll keep looking, though. SpencerT♦Nominate!16:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The world's oldest person is usually quite old, so is dying all the time. There is nothing extraordinary about it, so it is not ITN-worthy. We are not the Guinness Book of Records :). Thue | talk17:44, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Still oppose. I just don't feel that "last person alive who did X dies" is ITN news. So now you have 2 half stories: 1) oldest man dies 2) ww1 veteran dies. In this case I don't think 2 half stories sums up to one ITN-worthy story; IMO ITN math doesn't work that way :). Thue | talk20:50, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nevertheless this isnt just any old guy, last surviving soldier of the great war and last founding member of the royal air force. certainly did a lot more valuable things for the world than michael jackson ever did, yet we gave him a mention. so i support --Thanks, Hadseys23:13, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've added section headers, and a whole new section on the election day. I'm going to be on holiday this upcoming week, so all the article needs right now is the results table. (I will likely not be able to update that, as I will have no computer access). SpencerT♦Nominate!16:57, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The article is too short and I don't know if anyone knows who he is anymore. When most people think of the great anti-Communist Pole, Wałęsa comes to mind. Therequiembellishere (talk) 22:20, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
How do you calculate that though? I am sure there are some minds into which Wałęsa wouldn't even enter. If a person is opposed because people mightn't know who they are–well, there would be several scientists, philosophers, poets, etc. who may have achieved but whose names may not be instantly recognisable to many people. --candle•wicke22:32, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Possible WP:IAR death candidate. He appeared in people's living rooms every weeknight for 20 years. He was called "the most trusted man in America," and his commentary on the Vietnam War may have been responsible for shaking public optimism on the U.S. role in the conflict. It's his reporting which is always used when they show "as it happened" footage of the JFK assassination or other historic events of the period. His death will be the lead story across North America (except Quebec). -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:42, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, unless you point out something international (I see a lot of US stuff) about this guy he means the same to me as the Indian singer who also died for the sake of consistency. I mean, he's even an old man–she was an old woman. --candle•wicke00:55, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The first paragraph (if it all true) of Trevor McDonald screams more internationalness and firsts/significance, etc. to me than Cronkite and yet I doubt he would be posted either... --candle•wicke00:59, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Cronkite seems, IMO, to be much more notable than the Indian singer or McDonald. He has a school named after him (Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication). From CBS Evening News: "NBC's team of Chet Huntley and David Brinkley had the most-watched network news program at the time, but under Cronkite, the show began what would eventually become an eighteen-year period of dominating the nightly news ratings.[4] In the process, Walter Cronkite became an American icon, judged "the most trusted man in America" in a Gallup Poll from that era, a status that had first been fostered by his coverage of the JFK Assassination." I'm leaning towards support, IF the deaths section is updated. And if the article undergoes a little more general cleanup. Just a little. SpencerT♦Nominate!01:23, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
With all due respect to Walter Cronkite, living in Australia, I did not know this presenter at all. He was obviously a television icon across the USA, but I still do believe that it should be covered as a story for ITN due to his great work for the television media industry. — JamesR≈talk≈01:47, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's what I meant too. I was thinking of the problems that would be presented when each country's decades long media or broadcasting icon dies and somebody nominates. That's why I mentioned McDonald or, for another example, how about Gay Byrne as that is one I would be curious about (his achievements have been documented even in the UK)? Will each case such as this go unopposed? --candle•wicke01:57, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If we are going to WP:IAR, I'd like to nominate my next door neighbour who broke the club record by scoring 11 under last sunday :). Back on topic, I think we need to be realistic with what constitutes a notable death. IMHO, there should be only three types of person listed:
globally famous and widely known for what they do (e.g. Michael Jackson; David Beckam; Tiger Woods; etc)
globally famous for what they have done or achieved/invented (e.g. Bill Gates; Tim Berners-Lee; Neil Armstrong etc)
former heads of state (e.g: Margaret Thatcher; Nelson Mandela etc)
The old standard is that the death MUST be unexpected.
With that said, American (and other countries') TV news personalities aren't that well known elsewhere. I'd argue differently for actors and actresses but this one's too narrow. –HowardtheDuck14:40, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What is the "old standard"? Howard Kurtz for the Washington Post wrote, "Cronkite's passing, in the end, is the passing of an era, an era of black-and-white television, of mass audiences, of a slower time when the country waited for the headlines at 6:30 in the evening. No anchor -- no journalist -- will ever wield that authority again." -SusanLesch (talk) 16:12, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Can I just point out that WP has a deaths page already, so just because its reported across the world doesn't necessarily mean it should go up (I expect Allingham will have been reported across the world). The simple fact is that, although he may have been highly regarded in the US, internationally he was not held in the same regard as say, Michael Jackson. --Daviessimo (talk) 17:35, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I probably know that, but I was balancing this with an Irish TV newscaster being covered by a British news outlet (think of it as the Super Bowl being covered in Canada) and the like comments here and on other discussions above. –HowardtheDuck17:42, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Daviessimo, Cronkite with Edward R. Murrow was, according to Bob Schieffer, one of the two greatest broadcast journalists who ever lived. I'm sorry but Michael Jackson wasn't in his class. But I don't argue because Cronkite doesn't meet the old standard. -SusanLesch (talk) 17:49, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but I read that as "American journalist A, along with American journalist B, was, according to American journalist C, one of the two greatest broadcast journalists who ever lived"? So will "Australian journalist A" also feature because, along with "Australian journalist B", they are, according to "Australian journalist C" the greatest ever? Will "Indian journalist A" also feature because, along with "Indian journalist B", they are, according to "Indian journalist C" the greatest ever? Will "Chinese journalist A" also feature because, along with "Chinese journalist B", they are, according to "Chinese journalist C" the greatest ever? And so on... I would argue that Michael Jackson (liked or loathed) provoked a much greater international reaction than any recent death I can think of. --candle•wicke19:15, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose God, there's so much death. I was leaning toward support on this based on the fact that very few people are known by everyone like Michael Jackson, and several people have been on ITN before with even less worldwide recognition than Cronkite. That being said, I stick to the precedent of putting up unexpected deaths. Cronkite was ninety-two... Therequiembellishere (talk) 22:20, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Brazil complains of 64 containers with over 1,400 tonnes of British used condoms, syringes and rotting nappies located in three of the country's ports. (BBC)(The Guardian)(Sky News)
Two journalists from South Africa and the United Kingdom are due in court after being allegedly attacked and then arrested while filming seal hunters in Namibia. (BBC)
Not necessarily. I would say the vote was a more significant step, and this was an expected move after the vote. We don't have to revise the blurb for every single step it takes. --BorgQueen (talk) 02:55, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Wait, aren't we supposed to wait for a referendum for their admission or something like that? We had LOTS of waiting done for the element, so we should also apply the same thing here. –HowardtheDuck14:33, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
According to the article: "... a proposal by the Independence Party to hold a referendum on the membership application as well was defeated with 32 to 30 and one abstention..." --BorgQueen (talk) 14:39, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So if we have to wait for a decade, then wait. We did that for the element, dunno why we should give this exemption. We only had mentions when other countries were formally accepted as members. (I think that's every New Year's or some other date.) –HowardtheDuck07:14, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is more to do with the fact that car/bus/lorry crashes are so common across the world, whereas plane/train/boat accidents are much less frequent. If you look at List of road accidents 2000–2009, 14 dead is actually not that big for a road accident --Daviessimo (talk) 21:47, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The article should be in pretty decent condition, and the "more refs needed" tag at the top isn't helping that, say nothing about ITN notability, which, IMO, is rather shaky. I'd prefer a little more global notability. SpencerT♦Nominate!20:55, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I did not know her either. i think she was only famous in south india 22:50, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
I know I'm talking to myself but here is just what we need. I have been waiting several minutes for an online source to become available and here it is. Need more for an article though and there doesn't appear to be any confirmed deaths but since there are two bombs scenes... --candle•wicke01:38, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It didn't exist at all when I nominated it so I haven't seen if it has one sentence... I presume the passing admin will have some common sense and wait until its ready at any rate? 4 dead, says BBC TV now using Reuters. So we have death and misery... --candle•wicke01:49, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Since these days only these events seem to be posted on ITN, why don't we rename the section from ITN to "Political events and random people dying?" This title would cover 95.3% of the news posted in the last month. Nergaal (talk) 01:59, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
i came here to nominate the bombings. seems like its been taken care of. well full support here. this is not random ppl dying btw. these are coordinated attacks at 2 different places in jakarta. Expect this to be covered heavily and internationally. already front news on TorStarAshishg55 (talk) 02:54, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It definitely meets the interest criterion. The issue is whether it meets the criterion of being a good example of recently updated Wikipedia content. Currently, the article is only two sentences, so it needs to be flushed out a bit more before we post it on ITN, IMO. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:10, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Two bomb attacks, at two major international hotels, with international casualities. I don't think many people can suggest this isn't notable --Daviessimo (talk) 07:24, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Very belated, but thanks for the good work guys (and girls). I didn't have time to expand last night but things are looking good now. Joshdboz (talk) 16:00, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Endeavour/ISS docking
The shuttle docks with the station, marking the first time 13 people have been in orbit aboard the same facility. This also ties the record for the most people in space at once (the last time, they didn't meet up). As the shuttle's launch didn't get posted (see below), this would be a significant item. Radagast (talk) 23:47, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The Parliament voted to begin membership talks; there's still a ways to go before Iceland becomes an EU member. But I'm not opposed to including this so long as the blurb clearly indicates what's happening. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:40, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The PM said: "This is probably the most historic vote in the history of our parliament, since the founding of the republic." (Independent) --candle•wicke01:46, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Given that the Icelandic name has characters that would not be recognised or understood by English speakers, I don't think we can. Per WP:NAME I think the rule is to use the spelling most commonly used in English, which in this case will be Althing rather than Alþingi --Daviessimo (talk) 09:31, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That being said, the BBC are using the alternative anglicised spelling of Althingi. Maybe this is a good compromise as it maintains the i at the end from the Icelandic spelling, but replaces the þ, with its Latin alphabet equivilant, th. --Daviessimo (talk) 09:35, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
After some thought and reading I will nominate this too since there is stress due to the lack of ITNs. I will argue that this is receivinginternationalcoverageoutside France. So far we have one death, two serious injuries and other injuries as well. Those involved are from several countries, including UK, US, France and the Comoros. Perhaps someone else may see something more significant than all of this. There does not appear to be very much happening at the moment... --candle•wicke00:44, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Candle: are you kidding? You are against putting the naming/official recognition of a chemical element and nominate instead one person dying in a work-related accident????? What is wrong with ITN lately? Nergaal (talk) 01:50, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Lately? I was trying to give the best variety of what is available; they will only be posted if others agree (at least I think that's how it works). I just thought the element hadn't been officially confirmed yet. I don't think Madonna is necessary anymore post-Jakarta but if anyone wants to pursue it... --candle•wicke02:02, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This came up a couple of week ago, when a new element (then known as Ununbium) was officially added to the periodic table. I think the concensus back then was to wait until it was renamed before posting. However, even though this element has now been given a name, it will not be officially accepted by the IUPAC for another sixth months. Having missed the opportunity to list last time, is it worth missing this one and listing in sixth months time. By then it will probably be considered old scientific news. Thoughts? --Daviessimo (talk) 16:18, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at Talk:Ununbium, there seems to be some discussion about how official the name is and the article has been move-protected. I don't think we should talk about Copernicium on the main page until the article is actually there ... — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:39, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Having looked over the discussion there, I'm thinking it may be better to wait. When it is officially named, we can alter the blurb accordingly putting the emphasis on the naming, whilst still mentioning the discovery (something like the newly discovered element X is officially named Copernicium). At the end of the day, the discovery of a new elemant is not common so waiting is not going to hurt it. --Daviessimo (talk) 17:52, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Why not wait until they discover and name another 20 new elements? I guess it is more important to put on the main page that the new prime minister of [insert name of a tiny country here] which is chosen for ~4 years! But if an element gets discovered, officially recognized, named and then the name is fully recognized, let's wait 4 more years because the element will be discovered, recognized, named, and then accepted AGAIN in 4 more years. They won't hapen only once in the history of mankind. Isn't it? Nergaal (talk) 00:06, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ya i lost track too. but i think that was a support. A support from me too since we said last time that we will put it up once it is named. now we have an official name. Ashishg55 (talk) 01:29, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
i mean we have a name. its interesting too because its one of the only few at end of periodic table that will have name other than ununun bs Ashishg55 (talk) 01:33, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think my confusion occurred with the use of "they" in one sentence followed by "isn't it" which seemed odd when read together. Oh well. --candle•wicke01:42, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
China urges its citizens in Algeria to "take extra care" after reports circulate of a militant group's plans to avenge recent deaths of Muslim Uyghurs. (BBC)
China'sforeign exchange reserves have reached a record US$ 2.13 trillion, which is more than twice the size of Japan's - the second-biggest holder. - This is the first time ever this has been achieved. And an important signal for the global economy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.69.60.159 (talk • contribs)
I agree and I wasn't here when the delay was posted so I don't know the story (it seems to have just been posted for no reason whatsoever from I've read below) but it has been said before that articles shouldn't be posted twice like this so I don't know how or why this would be... maybe someone else is going to come along now and explain something... --candle•wicke00:08, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, like I said already (unless I'm missing something), SriMesh seems to have said it was delayed due to lightening and then that got posted with no other comment. That's what I read below. --candle•wicke17:43, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So you meant no stated reason. Your wording sounded like I had no reason to justify the posting. There were no one around here at that time and I had to make decisions alone, under the glaring red timer. Why would I want to talk to myself. --BorgQueen (talk) 18:19, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
But why panic because it is red? If someone else notices or complains that it is red, ask them to help. If nobody notices then what's the problem? I don't think Wikipedia will crash because ITN hasn't been updated for 24 or 36 hours, especially if it has been updated multiple times in 24-hour periods that week. Or am I the only one who doesn't get blinded or stressed or freaked out by this timer? --candle•wicke18:38, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Whatever the significance of the delay, I can't see why the successful launch cannot be listed, especially as the delay item has since scrolled off the page. Radagast (talk) 04:15, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
?? OK more added to STS-127... including the 2 or 3 foam ejecta from the external fuel tanks which fell off 2 minutes into launch, damage is not expected to be as extensive as that which disintegratedSpace Shuttle Columbia, however it is still under review, and will be examined again upon docking with the ISS. SriMesh | talk15:38, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's been over 24 hrs since the launch; if this is going to be added, it should be soon - otherwise the item will be the shuttle's ISS docking by then... Radagast (talk) 23:50, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I don't quite get what you're trying to say there, but if you're implying Ridzi's resignation is among the more important political events in Romania in the last 20 years ... well, no. (See the Mineriads, the 1996 election, the impeachment referendum, etc.) Romanian ministers have resigned on a relatively routine basis, for much greater acts of corruption. Plus, she holds a rather unimportant portfolio (the Youth Ministry). Yes, it's big news in Romania, but not really fit for ITN. - BiruitorulTalk23:19, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Foiled again! I was nominating the same article, but didn't get in fast enough. :) Anyway, I'll help to update it. Otumba (talk) 11:21, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I would like to put forward my idea for an entry on Buzek:
Please feel free to change. I planned originally to say "a former Prime Minister", but I couldn't think of anything better to replace the phrase "former Eastern Bloc", and I didn't want to repeat the word within such a short amount of text. Otumba (talk) 11:30, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I know this isn't a learning area, but may I ask if I went about this nomination completely the right way? I ask because this is my first ITN case, and as such I am not completely confident as yet. Otumba (talk) 12:08, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think so... Don't worry, there are not many people around here anyway, no one is going to flame you over some small mistake. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:11, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Greek police use bulldozers to completely clear a sprawling migrant camp that had been in place in the port town of Patras for over a decade. (Sky News)
It is said that his trial could last for years before a verdict is made. The news is about his arrest and its impact on Sino-Australian relations as well as the iron ore industry. --User:000ace000 (talk) 11:04, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A explosion in Kabul kills an Afghani police chief and injures four others. The Taliban are the suspected culprits of the attack, and authorities fear that the insurgency may be re-initiating their attacks.
I was thinking more because it was an attack on the American "model village" more than the death toll. It's the first attack in that region for a while, but I see what you mean Candlewicke. MacMedtalkstalk18:46, 16 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Scheduled to be signed on 13 July in Ankara between the governments of Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and Austria. If signed, it will be a major step for implementing this project, which has been seen as the main alternative to the Russian gas supplies for Europe. Beagel (talk) 15:28, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Supprt too, but it is best if you could expand it a little further. And I've removed the irrelevant 2007 info from the section. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Countries in the Middle East take precautionary measures to control the spread of H1N1 during and after the Hajj, where several million Muslims from all over the world will arrive in Mecca for the annual pilgrimage in late November. (IRIN)
Added. (If I'm going about this wrong, let me know or fix it and I'll see the change...I have intermittent knowledge of Wikipedia, mostly because I don't have time and no one has written "Wikipedia editing for Dummies" (or, at least not that I know of).Kavri (talk) 19:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What about this? Reports are suggesting between 23 (as BBC state) and 35 killed, so it's quite big. Not sure if it would warrant its own article, but an update could be made to Naxalite-Maoist insurgency, which I think is the relevant article. Thoughts? --Daviessimo (talk) 19:23, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You could make a case for it, as Tokyo is one of the 'big 4' global cities along with New York, London and Paris. Maybe we could have the mayoral or equivilant elections for these cities treated as regulars under political elections. At the end of the day they happen once every, what, four years or so? --Daviessimo (talk) 19:12, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think this has been discussed-local elections are generally opposed. I lean toward oppose on placing local/state elections up, unless there is violence/etc. that makes the election notable. SpencerT♦Nominate!21:38, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A) And if we allow this, someone will come up with some accident with only three deaths, saying "it got ITN status with three more". B) I recall that the number of deaths wasn't the only factor in the Washington Metro discussion. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:54, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Deaths in India are extremely common whether it is accidental or not and don't get much attention.I think that the botched alcohol operation which recently killed over 130 people is more significant. Nirvana888 (talk) 16:14, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
But then, July hasn't passed yet, therefore it is best if we wait until the end of the month and give the total fatalities. --BorgQueen (talk) 10:47, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No, I think it's for just today. The Reuters article says 40 fighters from al Shabaab group and 3 soldiers were killed from Sunday's fighting. Cargoking talk 10:52, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've noticed that people here on ITN tend not to work much on Saturday and Sunday. And worse, two of our regular contributors, Candlewicke and Daviessimo, appear to be offline... --BorgQueen (talk) 07:44, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
NOPE no launch today.... Well maybe four times is a charm - twice due to fuel leaks, and now twice due to weather inclemency. The Endeavour is again delayed due to heavy clouds this time re-scheduled for 6.51pm EDT Monday. Oh my goodness. Reuters via Herald SunSriMesh | talk00:17, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The article says: "He is to be sworn-in at 8:00pm on 12 July 2009." I suppose it is local time? We have to wait until he is sworn-in. --BorgQueen (talk) 04:16, 12 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A senior Iranian cleric calls for changes to the election laws in the country to prevent further post-election unrest in the future. (Press TV)(The Los Angeles Times)
Breaking news from France. Halimi was a Jewish man who was held captive for three weeks by a gang of African Muslims in a Paris suburb as part of an extortion attempt. He became a cause celebre in France and in the world Jewish community. It's probably too early to see how much attention this will get in the English-language press. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:35, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that dinosaurs are like buses... nothing comes for ages and then you have two at once! Anyhoo... What about this this. Its not as significant as the last one but a 107 million year old animal burrow is still a pretty remarkable find. Because it is not related to a particular dinosaur, I was maybe thinking that an update could go at burrow. Thoughts? --Daviessimo (talk) 17:43, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm on the fence with this one. When you get over 7-7.5 in scale, I think they are notable irrelevant of deaths because they are so infrequent (Maybe 5 a year that strike an inhabited land mass). A 5.7 quake is not that strong (there are probably ~400/500 a year that are between 5 and 6 in size) and thus it is normally a requirement to have a considerable number of deaths. That being said, the damages from this seem quite considerable and according to the article there are 30 serious injuries, which mean the death toll could rise. If I had to lean one way, I'd probably say very weak support, although it would be good to get other opinions --Daviessimo (talk) 11:30, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Personally, though it merits an addition of a sentence to the article, it merits no more than that. In addition, while interesting, it's not really notable enough for ITN. Thanks, SpencerT♦Nominate!23:00, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
China opposes Turkey's attempt to place the riots on the agenda of the United NationsSecurity Council, saying it is a "domestic affair", as Turkish Trade and Industry Minister Nihat Ergun and some Turkish companies call for a boycott of Chinese goods. (Xinhua)
25 people, including 21 civilians and 4 police, die and four are injured when an overturned truck carrying explosives blows up on a road south of Kabul, Afghanistan. (RTÉ)
Bombs in Baghdad and northern Iraq kill at least 41 people and wounded more than 80, police say. (Sky News)
Cyber attacks against South Korea and the United States
Does anyone think it is ITN-notable? It is still ongoing, at least in South Korea, and "the financial loss caused by the attacks is expected to snowball to an astronomical figure." [38] --BorgQueen (talk) 16:30, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Two car bombs blow up in Mosul, the second of them killing at least nine people. (BBC)
Undercover investigators smuggle bomb-making materials into government buildings in the United States, assembling bombs within, on ten occasions. (BBC)
Sounds significant. "The salamander is so distinct that it's been classified within its own genus, a taxonomic grouping that usually includes a host of related species. The creature breathes through its skin, and unusually for its kind, males and females have different colouration. Such a distinct amphibian has not been found in the US for half a century." --candle•wicke17:57, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe you should drop a line at WP:AAR and see if you can get someone to do the necessary update. I think it's going to be like the dinosaurs in that it will need someone with more knowledge on the subject to do it --Daviessimo (talk) 09:05, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Normally I'd support, but I think there is an issue with whether this claim is actually true. The BBC article on it states that there is contention over whether they are fully developed sperm and thus actually usable --Daviessimo (talk) 14:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ya i thought about that too but really i got no knowledge in the biological department. Unless someone can verify i think our best bet would be to take BBC's word on it. they featured the story so im assuming that atleast an artificial sperm was made. whether it is usable or not is i guess a different story. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:57, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to nominate this, then saw there was some uncertainty so I think I will oppose. If it were posted I don't know how any objection could be made to claims like contact with extraterrestrial life or human cloning or anything of that nature if it was posted on the BBC site... or it could even be one of those where it is close to being achieved but has not actually been achieved yet. Someone is always claiming this type of thing to get in the headlines but it needs to be properly verified. --candle•wicke15:30, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The 35th G8 summit is taking place from 8th-10th July in L'Aquila, Italy. I'm suprised this isn't listed as a recurring event actually. I'm not sure if it would be best to list this once it has finished though --Daviessimo (talk) 08:48, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure if we should feature such summits every single time, unless something new, "first" or unusual happens (such as protests, delay or cancellation), or some definite action is taken as a result. --BorgQueen (talk) 08:58, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's a good point. Support. There would be two riot-related ITNs though the first one could be removed if it's too much. --candle•wicke15:33, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What's with this "there should only be one type of news blurb" thing going on? These are completely random: last month we had a ton of cyclone candidates now the atmosphere is so heavenly. –HowardtheDuck16:08, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hu's leaving of the G8 summit is unprecedented. Generally Chinese government officials want to leave these types of riots to "local authorities". This is clearly not the case this time, because the riots have now become extremely serious. Would be good to mention it. Colipon+(T) 00:47, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Significant because the G-2 won't be at the G-8, meaning nothing substantial will get done. Let's see what happens at the G-8 once the smoke clears. 76.65.22.54 (talk) 02:09, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Two done and I have two sentences for the middle one from the one English source I could find. I had no luck trying to find a Bosnian translator so maybe someone else can extract a few more sentences from somewhere? --candle•wicke21:09, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Tunisian police charge nine men—including two air force officers—with plotting several deaths during joint military exercises with the US. (Jerusalem Post)(BBC)
We went through all of that on June 30. The U.S. is a country whose election results were held up for 250 days for this (one of the closest elections in Senate history according to some). -SusanLesch (talk) 00:09, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I hate to break the chain, but I object to this. He's one of 100 senators in the United States. If Sarah Palin's resignation was not shown, there is not way this should be. Very American-centric. Unless you are well versed in either SNL or his anti-Republican crusades, it's hardly relevant. (given though, that the recount campaign was painfully long. still, I don't believe this to be justified - plus tipping the balance of the senate is a very technical, parliamentary issue, can't imagine this being posted for any other country). Also brings out ITN's extreme obsession with parliamentary peculiarities - and this always goes unnoticed. A parliamentary election in Palau certainly has less influence on the world than a Gujarati uprising in India - but those never make it on here. Colipon+(T) 00:38, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you have an item about the Gujarati uprising in India you should nominate it. When this election was decided it was the number one story in the world according to Google News top stories. -SusanLesch (talk) 01:03, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. But two days ago the top story was Obama and Medvedev summit. Right now the top story is about Michael Jackson's children. One cannot simply insert every single top story on Google into the ITN. Colipon+(T) 01:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I would agree with that sentiment. It is more about the significance of the item, and particularly if it affects more than one country, than the top story on Google, one source and an American one at that. We could use the BBC in the same way and we might have several British stories running at once. Or what about the top stories from South Africa (currently Michael Jackson is there oddly enough yet no mention of this particularly important story)? --candle•wicke01:39, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Pardon me Candlewicke and Coliphon, but as an English-speaking citizen of the United States this matters, did matter and does--today before the story goes stale twice. I absolutely support other countries' news in ITN. -SusanLesch (talk) 01:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I dont really care if this goes up or not. but the reason should not be because it matters to "english speaking US citizen". there are many other countries that speak english (and many more that understand). I still dont see a logical reasoning behind this except that its followed in US and its on google. if anyone can please comment on the international significance (or international interest besides US citizens) then that would be great. thanks. Ashishg55 (talk) 02:33, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Like, why should I care who wins the next Canadian election? So far, all the land on Earth is divided into countries, so almost everything that happens on this planet had to happen inside one of them. The elected officials of any country affect both its citizens and the citizens of all the other countries. Why vote? But this is a discussion for somewhere else. -SusanLesch (talk) 03:28, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The U.S. has a presidential system, in which the president is elected directly (more or less) and separately from the elections for members of Congress. In Canada, only members of Parliament are directly elected, and the leader of the party or coalition that wins the most seats becomes the prime minister. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 06:29, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Given that this had already been posted I'm not going to oppose, although, as I have stated when this was originally nominated, I don't think it is notable enough. However, I must once again comment on my concern (and it is a concern shared by others) of the way other users are judging the importance of items. This is an encylopaedia, not a news service - we have wikinews for that. Fundamental biases continue to creep up. Yes, this is the English Wikipedia, but English is the most widely spoken language in the world and an official language in 50 different countries (that's 1/4 of the countries in the world). I don't want to sound funny, but the biases and rule bending involve the same country that is criticised in almost every area of life for its inward looking and self righteous attitude. Wikipedia can never be entirely neutral but as users we should strive to avoid it where possible, however, with this, the MJ story and many other ITN nomiations people are using POV (i.e. this news story is important to me or I don't care/have never heard of that so its not important) as a judge --Daviessimo (talk) 07:49, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This is not really news in the sense that MJ is news, it's like what encyclopedias list as "current events:" a national legislature invokes a rule not used most of the time due to a change in membership. I would've opposed the instance the filibuster was used, since it's only a bill, it hasn't become a law, and we'd never list bills at ITN; on the other hand, I'd support similar such events for other legislatures. –HowardtheDuck08:30, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This is a tad Americocentric, and not really 'news' since it isn't a fundamental change the balance of power (since it's unlikely that all 60 will vote in the same way, and Maine senators Collins and Snowe often vote against their parties). -93.97.122.93 (talk) 12:13, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Daviessimo and just want to add that there is inherent bias when users nominate an item related to their own country/state/city. THis does not mean dont nominate since that is how others users find out about it. But u should also realize that it may be important to u but at same time mean nothing to rest of the world. So to keep wikipedia neutral please take out POV and think of item whether it matters to rest of the world or not. It does not need to be of great international importance but atleast ppl should be interested in the item. And google news is not the way to determine that... Obama swatting a fly generates more hits than news in smaller country. So we cannot use the number of hits in google as our guideline. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:51, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The only elections we include are general elections and head of state elections. Plus the blurb completely fails to explain the significance of the supermajority. Modest Geniustalk16:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This was a part of the general election -- oddly enough, for the number of U.S.-election related items last year, we didn't mention the legislative election result so this is supposed to be the blurb. Yes the supermajority has to be elaborated further. –HowardtheDuck16:21, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I would just like to point out that if Wikipedia is governed by consensus, having this many people point out their opposition to putting the Al Franken story on ITN, it should rightfully be removed. This happened earlier with a lady named Ruth Something who became professor of poetry at Oxford, and not that many people cared. Please remove this. Colipon+(T) 00:53, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just a note that I think you're exaggerating "this many people point out their opposition". I count three opposes: 93.97.122.93, yourself and Modest Genius. (Ashishg55 said s/he didn't care and Daviessimo said s/he wouldn't oppose.) -SusanLesch (talk) 05:14, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Good, just we should not have wording is expected. Can it be reworded? Although it is quite clear, it is a speculation until Borisov actually is asked to form the government. Until then, Centre-right party GERB wins the parliamentary election in Bulgaria? --Tone14:51, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that sounds good. If we have space for a few more words, we might emphasize the fact that it's a pretty big victory. That kind of margin was not expected by sociologists. Todor→Bozhinov15:09, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed led by Borisov since the article says he's not the formal leader of the party. We need some better wording to explain this or not mention him in the blurb. --Tone15:19, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The new story is not about joining, it's about custom union. The two have been members of EAC since 2007, according to the article. I don't think custom agreement is ITN notable, however, the proposed currency union is. Let's wait... --Tone13:21, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it was I who added that but upon further investigation I found it was just an extension of something they joined in 2007 so I didn't see a reason to nominate... :( --candle•wicke18:34, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Possible, yes. In my opinion, it would be good to consider merging articles Death and Funeral of MJ because they go together. At least for now. --Tone08:38, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The issue with this is that not long ago the state funeral of Omar Bongo was nominated to go up, but was pretty swiftly rejected because the death had already been listed. We put MJ's funeral up and its effectively hypocrisy. Another problem is that Jackson is already on the main page as the FA. I know that people will say that this is bigger but we do it for him and then we've got to do it for Thatcher and Mandela etc etc. For these reasons I'm leaning towards oppose --Daviessimo (talk) 12:38, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think the purpose of putting this item up would be to honour MJ. and to me it is best done via TFA that is why there is Thriller on main page. Funeral is always followed by a death so it is technically not ITN material no matter how important the person is. My opinion is to leave MJ to TFA today. Ashishg55 (talk) 14:24, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I was about to support but then I thought of the Omar Bongo case. I would say oppose for now but if this is verified by several sources as the biggest and most watched event in history and the article is sufficiently updated to reflect the true international significance, i.e. multiple references and citations from non-US sources (as there are bound to be plenty of US sources and this is obviously happening there) with several dozen countries represented and a decent continental spread (sources from or mentioning countries in Asia, Africa and South America would be good if they're not already there) then perhaps I would support. It would appear that both these may be possible and if the article attracted that much interest I would see it as a good ITN possibility if others support that too or can make sense of what I've just said as well. --candle•wicke16:52, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ordinarily, WP:CRYSTAL would dictate that we wait to see just how big the funeral was in terms of viewership in accordance with what Candlewicke is saying. However, because ITN has an aspect of immediacy to it, I think we really have to make a decision right away. Therefore, I think we have to base our decision on how the world's media is playing the story right now. Google News indicates that the British as well as American media is playing the memorial up as if it was JFK's funeral. It's the lead story in the Telegraph, Guardian and BBC. And Le Monde (France), Stern (Germany), ABC (Spain), The Age (Australia), etc., etc. That's good enough for me. Support -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:02, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Is there anyone willing to speak for Africa or Asia since most continents are being covered there I guess... since it's a funeral it would really need to prove it was massive or all other funeral nominations would be difficult to argue against... I really don't see the need to rush - things seem to be a bit slow again at the moment... --candle•wicke00:11, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It was also televised live on both major Filipino networks. That makes five continents we've covered. I don't think any planned event has received this much media attention since the first moon landing in 1969. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:32, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Here is what is hot in South Africa (having mentioned it above). As I type this Jackson has a big square on the front page with seven article links, one of which is titled "Mandela's message to Jackson memorial - full text". --candle•wicke01:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well (if it gets posted) that speaks for itself. Its impact on the world (whether people like or hate him but then ITNs don't necessarily always get posted because the person involved is liked - at least that's not how I judge them all) is probably my reason to support this one. I am relieved that several sites and the relevance of this to several countries (and not just Google hits) are the methods of determining the worth of this candidate, at least in my opinion. --candle•wicke15:42, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
South Africa's new "Hawks" serious crime squad begins work six months after its "Scorpions" predecessor was disbanded amid claims of political bias. (BBC)
Egyptians mourn the death of Marwa El-Sherbini, called the "hijab martyr" after she was killed in a German courtroom by a man convicted of insulting her religion. (BBC)
A Government delegation including hostage negotiators, led by Ireland's Ambassador to Egypt Gerard Corr continue efforts in Khartoum to locate two Irish and Ugandan aid workers who were kidnapped in Sudan. (RTÉ)
Bolivian drug enforcement officials raid what they call the biggest cocaine laboratory ever found in their country. (BBC)
As I understand it, this is an important announcement by a big group of influential clerics, illustrating the split in the Iranian elite. There doesn't seem to be an article in Wikipedia yet. [41]
Issuing statements only is not enough for ITN, I think. We've covered the elections twice already. However, if there is some significant development, we can always consider an update. --Tone09:44, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree with the "Issuing statements only is not enough for ITN" part. Statements can be very important. Like if the Republican National Convention issued a statement that the 2000 election was stolen by Bush, which would be a US analogy :). The clerics are supposed to be the power base and source of legitimacy for the Iranian government. Thue | talk09:55, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think we would put that example on ITN either... However, if this results in some changes, that's another thing. But first, there have to be some changes, not only statements. And we don't have an article anyway so there's no point in discussing, really... --Tone11:04, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Tone - statements like this are just people's or group's opinions. As such, not only are they not notable, but I'm fairly certain they contradict Wikipedia's NPOV policy --Daviessimo (talk) 12:46, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
While I of course agree that it can't currently go on ITN because of the lacking article, it is not "just" a group's opinion. The opinion of strategically placed powerful groups (and how they choose to express them) is extremely important. The pen is mightier than the sword, so to say :). Thue | talk20:08, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that the group itself may be notable, but by putting this on ITN you are inherently implying that their opinion is more important than say that of the Iranian people as a whole, or the United Nations etc. We didn't put Ayatollah Kameini's opinions up when he claimed the election was legal, so if we put this up on the main page it suggests that Wikipedia is favouring this viewpoint over his. When all the viewpoints are covered in an equal manner, as it normally the case in an article that covers a topic such as as this, the balance of viewpoints removes POV. However, in this instance, I feel that as this statement only covers one side of the argument it is biased --Daviessimo (talk) 20:44, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
An Iranian political analyst employed by the British embassy in Tehran faces a lengthy prison sentence after being charged with "acting against national security". (The Times)
The article is ok, Support. Is it correct to say a bombing kills or is it better to use a bomb blast? --Tone07:42, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Whilst 5 deaths is not particularly high for a terrorist attack, I'm guessing that the Phillipines is not a country that is in the middle of a major ethnic/civil/international war? --Daviessimo (talk) 12:54, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It is facing two insurgencies of varying intensity. As for the attack itself, it was not the first bombing of a Catholic church in Mindanao, but it was the first in several years (source was working yesterday but isn't today). –BLACK FALCON(TALK)15:53, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The last time a "terrorist" attack occurred in the area was in 2006 where 8 were killed. Although there were incursions between the rebels and the military in the area lately, there were no civilian casualties since they fled.
If ITN is really desperate of having a new blurb, this can be added. If you guys want a Philippine-related blurb, some nasty storm will come up in the next few months if you guys are willing to wait that is the best opportunity. –HowardtheDuck14:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Based on the above I will support. I don't know why it should be posted because there is a need for something from the Philippines though, I don't see how any country is ever needed or wanted–it depends on the significance of the event and it being nominated. A first terrorist attack since 2006 is long enough and there are several dozen injuries as well as the deaths. --candle•wicke22:32, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Since Saturday, there have been five bombing attacks in the Philippines involving six individual blasts, four of which resulted in casualties and two of which resulted in fatalities. I thought about creating just one article about all of the bombings, but in the end decided against it because the Philippine military is treating the attacks as unrelated and suspects at least two different groups as being responsible. –BLACK FALCON(TALK)21:54, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, with the more bombings this seems important now. I'd prefer this blurb:
I added a bit to East Turkestan independence movement; will work on adding more tonight. I'll also post a blurb in a little bit. By the way, can you show me the source for 20 people injured? I haven't noticed that (it's getting frustrating reading most of these articles, they tend to say the same thing—although some are more anti-Uyghur than others—there might be more info available tomorrow), and it would be nice to cite. rʨanaɢtalk/contribs22:58, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Difficult to think of a good wording—while most of the news reports are saying it's the Uyghurs who are doing the majority of the rioting, I don't think it would be appropriate for the blurb to day something like "3 people killed when Uyghurs start rioting", it would sound too much like Wikipedia's participating in the blame game. Tried to keep things neutral above. rʨanaɢtalk/contribs00:32, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, crud...I didn't notice that before, the the East Turkestan independence movement has an {{articleissues}} tag; I'll either have to clean it up some or see about updating other relevant articles. Personally, I think a lot of the issues tagged are frivolous (the {{refimprove}} doesn't seem necessary as there are over 30 refs, and the {{neutrality}} tag has no accompanying discussion on the talk page) and many could probably be removed with little or no work. rʨanaɢtalk/contribs 00:36, 6 July 2009 (UTC) Update Never mind, I've removed the tags as I believe urgent major cleanup is not actually needed; my rationale is at the article talk page. rʨanaɢtalk/contribs00:51, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The first one I think... it's simple, it states that there are riots without getting complicated... "three people" as well (assuming they are people) but I expect that will be included if/when it is posted. --candle•wicke01:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks; I added "people", as well as "and 20 injured". The main reason I mentioned Han and Uyghur in the 2nd was because I figured most of the world probably doesn't know where Urumqi is and what on earth they might be rioting about. rʨanaɢtalk/contribs01:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest–At least three people are killed and twenty injured during riots in Ürümqi, China. This allows a link to the place and also informs of the country–otherwise someone will turn up at WP:ERRORS asking why the country link was not included. In answer to your question (I think that was me who told you you could post it the last time), there appears to be no opposition and administrators have posted their own nominations in the past (particularly since there are days when there are one or none at all to do the posting anyway). So it is OK to post it since it seems to be adequately updated with an appropriate amount of cited prose. --candle•wicke02:02, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks; I've added it. I didn't remove any because ITN is shorter than TFA right now on my screen, and I put it at the top because I wasn't sure of anywhere else to put it (I guess it's arguable; the riots began before the men's Wimbledon final did, but are still going on now, and most of the news covering them seems to have been published around the same time as most of the Wimbledon news). Let me know if I've messed anything up. rʨanaɢtalk/contribs02:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Torrential rain forces over 150,000 people from their homes, topples hundreds of houses and punches a hole in the spillway of a dam in southern China. (IOL)
No injuries even reported? No mention of death whatsoever. Appears ordinary enough and nothing to suggest that anyone outside the immediate area joined in. --candle•wicke10:45, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that it hasn't changed suggests those in favour of it being called a coup are winning. I do agree that its better to avoid using the term on the main page though --Daviessimo (talk) 08:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd point out that even if this is true that would be no reason to remove those two, especially as you cannot really compare what effects those competitions have on countries like France, Australia or New Zealand... so I sense an attempt to be controversial here... how can it be argued that the sport is of interest to only some in a small corner of Europe when this is not much more than that at all? --candle•wicke20:02, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well since we didn't have the Super 14 this year because the article wasn't up to scratch we can just let this replace the Super 14 and worry about the implications four years from now :-P BTW, I don't think HtD was suggesting they be removed, simply that the fact it has more interest is ample reason to put it Nil Einne (talk) 11:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Rather misleading blurb. Firstly because the series was won when SA went 2-0 up on 27th June, and also because although it is true that the Lions had not won a test match (will that phrase be understood by non-Rugby fans?) since 2001, they only played 3 test matches between 2001 and 2009. Kevin McE (talk) 12:29, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I've tried of thinking of the proper wording for this since the Springboks already won the series in the 2nd match rendering the 3rd inconsequential. Perhaps inserting "three-match series" will be sufficient. Best of three series are quite popular even in other sports... –HowardtheDuck12:44, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If constructed, this would be a very important pipeline to diversify Europe's gas supplies and intergovernmental agreement on its construction is an important milestone in the project development. However, I have also a feeling that probably this is not the last agreement concerning this project. Beagel (talk) 17:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Three articles, to be exact. Hopefully this has been published somewhere so there is a material for articles available... --Tone07:58, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What I've done is leave a message of the Wikiproject:dinosaur talk page asking one of its members to make the update because I don't have enough knowledge on the subject. Even the BBC article is question appears to have a mistake with the naming of the dinosaurs. Anyway it seems like a big enough wikiproject so hopefully someone will get on it today.--Daviessimo (talk) 08:12, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
On one hand, it's just Alaska, pop. 686,293. On the other hand, it's Sarah Palin, who is a national figure, and this is a national story. I support. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:03, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
But what I mean is that she seems to be a bit of a local celebrity who even in her own country would have been unrecognisable a few years ago. Michael Jackson would have been recognised everywhere a few decades ago (or at least a lot more if you know what I mean). --candle•wicke21:41, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but that was before she was John McCain's running mate and the butt of a million late-night jokes. Now she's one of the most-famous politicians in America. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:06, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Not the most famous though? Although I'm not sure how exactly to measure fame... so the reasoning behind the argument for posting this is that she featured in a lot of jokes after a 72 year-old fellow celebrity selected her as his understudy in an unsuccessful attempt to be their country's president? I just don't see how this matches any of the current ITNs - are there any other reasons? --candle•wicke 22:16, 3 July 2009 (
The argument for posting is this is a (inter-)national story because Sarah Palin is probably the best-known active Republican politician in the U.S. (and world) right now who is constitutionally eligible to be president (Arnold Schwarzenegger is ineligible), everyone in America has an opinion about her, and all the speculation is that she's preparing for a presidential run in 2012. If it was an ordinary governor of Alaska, no one south of Juneau would care. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:22, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If this resignation is for 'personal gain' (i.e. she's doing it so she can run in 2012) then I don't think it is big enough. If it was due to some form of political scandal that had far reaching implications for US politics in the current time period (such as was the case with the parliamentary expenses scandal at Westminster recently) it might have a shot --Daviessimo (talk) 22:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Very localized. If it were the case in any other country, it would be long dead here. Besides, she is still governor. I might support on 26/July. Cargoking talk 10:43, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think resignation of state-level officials are that notable. Maybe if they're convicted in an impeachment trial, assassinated or beaten in a recall election. –HowardtheDuck01:09, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder why this was never pointed out before or when Daviessimo nominated "Most Complete Earth Map" or Tone nominated Croatia or Iraq or other such times. When these incidents happen they are usually built up. I don't understand how it is always possible to have an article for a new event. --candle•wicke20:02, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes it's not possible to have an article for an event; fortunately that's irrelevant, as ITN is not a news page, but rather has newsworthy updates to articles. --Golbez (talk) 21:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think there are some crossed wires here. Candlewicke (as a regular contributor like myself) is not nominating this for inclusion on the main page without an update. He is, like I do, fishing for people's opinions on whether the story is notable before making an update. If there is support then an article can be created or another updated. If there is no support then Candlewicke doesn't waste time on it and can divert attention elsewhere --Daviessimo (talk) 21:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I am withdrawing the nomination as I think this is either being misunderstood or (even worse) there is a deliberate attempt to create a scene out of absolutely nothing or divert attention away from the issue at hand. It may be best not to nominate items in future if it leads to reactions such as this. --candle•wicke22:33, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Your lack of assumption of good faith confuses me; what purpose would "divert[ing] attention away from the issue at hand" serve? --Golbez (talk) 23:15, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
i think problem here is that people who do not visit ITN/C regularly should ask on how these nominations work rather than trying to prove otherwise... candlewicke just had a small "annoyance aftershock" to discussion above thats all he'll be ok in few hours. just to clarify it is always ok to nominate something without an article. It will not go up on ITN till artilce has been created or update has been made. Ashishg55 (talk) 23:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I would have said the same thing about good faith in relation to the claim that my response was "fortunately irrelevant" and that "ITN is not a news page, but rather has newsworthy updates to articles" had I not decided it was best to stop things before they got out of hand. The former appears highly inflammatory or at least disrespectful, the latter appears contradictory - not a newspage but newsworthy? What I mean is I thought it possible that there was some sort of cover-up or else an attempt at being disruptive to the ITN process... after reading this earlier I would think anything possible. Basically, there was an objection for whatever reason so I withdrew it. Other than that I confess I have absolutely no idea what is going on here right now and rather than cause any unnecessary disruption I tried to minimise it by not questioning these unusual statements. It appears I have failed. --candle•wicke00:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I never assumed bad faith; I assumed you had an incorrect view as to what ITN was, which has nothing to do with good faith. Correct, it's not a news page - we don't post any news that comes through the pipe. Only entries that result in the update of an article. Should there be no article then it can't go up; have you ever seen an entry on ITN without a bolded, changed link? Either way, your assumption of bad faith (curses, my nefarious plans to .. disrupt ITN? have failed again!) was worse than my snideness. :P Don't get all dramatic and say "well maybe I shouldn't nominate things anymore!" --Golbez (talk) 00:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Scrolling down, I see other nominations made without an existing article, often resulting in, well, someone making the article. But when I see a nomination without an article (And I did not see the others, having just gotten this far down the page, intrigued by the edit summary) I tend to reject outright, thinking the update should precede the nomination. My tone was gruff, and I apologize. However, candlewicke needs to assume good faith; this is not some strange vendetta against something. --Golbez (talk) 00:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I still don't understand what you mean. I am not assuming bad faith at all, I cannot recall doing so. I wasn't even being dramatic, I was trying to do the complete opposite and trying to work out what was going on as I have explained. I do not understand how you could think I would think an ITN could be posted without a bolded link as this seems very basic to me. I do not need the ins and outs of ITN explained to me. I do not even know why you have bent my words in the quote (I meant nominate in the way I did without an article, it is routine for me - and others too I thought - and it certainly did not use an exclamation mark). I am trying to be clear in my explanation of this confusion rather than attack even though reading some of the above still puzzles me. Gentle, non-attacking words appear to be failing me in my attempt to soothe the situation and I hope you do not perceive this as negative either. --candle•wicke00:33, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
" ... or there is a deliberate attempt to create a scene out of absolutely nothing or divert attention away from the issue at hand." positing that it's possible that people are deliberately attempting to quash the nomination of this story for some unsaid reason sounds pretty bad faith assuming to me. You may not need the ins and outs of ITN explained, but that's how it initially appeared: "I don't understand how it is always possible to have an article for a new event. " To me this read, "It's not always possible to have articles but we should still post it on ITN anyway", perhaps you meant "It's not always possible to have articles prior to the nomination, we'll get one before it gets posted". I apologize for my tone. I didn't know it was routine, not having been heavily involved in ITN lately. You and your nomination were not singled out. --Golbez (talk) 00:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know how it appeared this way from the start when I simply made a nomination as usual. I wasn't assuming bad faith, I pointed to something that had actually happened and just wondered if it was happening again - please don't take it as an idea that you had hidden motives or that I was attacking you personally as that was most definitely not my intention - it appeared to me as though you misunderstood how ITN worked and "fortunately that's irrelevant" sounded as though I oughtn't to continue any further so I tried to withdraw it quietly. I thought of several possibilities but was just left puzzled in the end and really shouldn't even have suggested anything as it was misunderstood. As someone who regularly cleans up the nominations which others might forget about - Fredrik Reinfeldt, 2009 European floods for example - or botched ITN postings - like the Michael Jackson affair - I was dismayed that my own nominations should have been carried out incorrectly for so long... like I said I tried to make this as small as possible but it appears to have ballooned out of control and I wish this had not happened as it only led to further confusion but I am trying to explain how things appeared to me. I think it might be best to agree to disagree or agree to agree or disagree to agree or disagree to disagree depending on what this actually is. :P (breathless) --candle•wicke01:55, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The article needs expansion, but I don't remember seeing a LGBT topic for a while, and how often does a country have such a large law change such as this? Especially in the largest democracy. (Description is fair game to change if needs-be :)) AllynJ (talk | contribs) 09:14, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Think just "homosexuality" would be better. A range of behviours have been unlawful in the past, not just "the sex act". That's my undertanding at least. The wording above is fine, but think "legalised" should be avoided, because it suggested that legislation has been passed. Also - is this only about male homosexuality - I haven't been able to work it out.--FormerIP (talk) 09:37, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
if appealed... its technically possible. but this is big step given india's stance on anything related to homosexuality till now. Socially i still dont see this being accepted anywhere for a long time to come so i dont know if it really means anything Ashishg55 (talk) 15:15, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A big step? I will support if this is correct. We really haven't had a proper ITN on this topic so far this July so hopefully this will go some way towards rectifying this... --candle•wicke15:44, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
nah even though it is a big step. its still not ITN material. very odd to mention on front page that gay ppl can have sex in india now. wth. like they already didnt. Ashishg55 (talk) 21:56, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I support this item not only because it is landmark judgement for several gay Indians, it can also have far reaching consequences on other South Asian nations which still ban gay sex. --Nosedown (talk) 01:03, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
On a more serious note, I'm leaning towards oppose per Ashishg55, and I think that if we put it up and the Supreme Court of India reverses the decision, it would make us look pretty sawdy. SpencerT♦Nominate!02:35, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
i like how there is a picture for sexual intercourse, anal sex and fellatio lol. i remember someone complaining about an art piece which showed breasts on main page saying its not kids friendly. i wonder what will happen if we put those 3 pics up. Ashishg55 (talk) 04:15, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm tending to lean towards oppose per Ashishg too. This ruling only de-criminalises gay sex and other unnatural sex acts. It still doesn't legally recognise homosexuality or homosexual marriage, which is the normal requirement for inclusion on ITN --Daviessimo (talk) 07:19, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on the fact that there is only one sentence covering the topic in the article and that it refers only to Delhi area, not the whole India. Regarding the marriages, seems they will soon be legalized in Slovenia. --Tone07:23, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not state opinions and mislead others if you don't know the details of the Indian law. The Indian Penal Code applies to the whole of India and not just Delhi. The sentence by the Delhi High Court is to amend the Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code following which gay sex would be legalized all over India. This ruling can only be overturned by the Supreme Court of India but given the circumstances in which the ruling was given, the probability of that is very low.
Also, I agree with Ashish's argument. This ruling does not to legalize homosexual marriages and therefore, perhaps it is not ITN worthy. --Nosedown (talk) 19:49, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
But I wonder how you could legalise the marriage without legalising the act? Surely this is the foundation and therefore more important or significant (or at least as significant)? --candle•wicke21:59, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Three staff from the British Embassy in Tehran, Iran, are released after being detained for allegedly having a role in the post-election protests. (BBC)
The remains of Jane Deasy are positively identified in the bodies recovered from Air France Flight 447. (RTÉ)
Up to 30 people are feared dead after the MV Demas Victory capsizes and sinks in choppy Persian Gulf waters off the Qatari capital Doha. (Sky News)
Transformers made triple of this last week. If this goes up, that should go up too, and probably Harry Potter the next few days... –HowardtheDuck05:11, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Films....football. Oh yes I can see how they are remotely linked. First we have arguments that country populations should define the importance of news and now money. Please look at the articles on Relativism and Systemic bias. The only thing that this can be compared to are 1)other football transfers and 2)other sports transfers --Daviessimo (talk) 07:11, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Why Republic? Since when have diseases respected political borders? But anyway it is called Ireland even in the article. --candle•wicke16:59, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, there's a bit of a complicated naming issue which I was trying to avoid and clearly someone else noticed very quickly before I could get the message through. It's because there are so many Irelands - the actual island and Northern Ireland itself as well so it gets called Republic of Ireland here. But it is referred to as Ireland as seen in the article... --candle•wicke17:15, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Why was the Yemenia Flight 626 crash removed? Is it really less notable than the opening of an obscure international bureaucratic agency? They've actually confirmed the discovery of one survivor, a teenage girl. --Kitch(Talk : Contrib)11:28, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The item has scrolled off, which is quite normal here on ITN. If you don't like it, please try to find a way to enlarge our Main Page. I am not sure if just one survivor makes that much difference anyway. --BorgQueen (talk) 11:32, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think so, some subjects are notable enough to be subsections of an article but don't pass the notability threshold for articles. Then again, I'd rather avoid AFD drama by having her as a subsection in the air crash article than as a standalone article. –HowardtheDuck11:50, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So she is not notable enough for a stand alone article. I am not going to feature the same article twice so soon, just for a new subsection. Even for the Iranian civil unrest, separate articles had to be updated and featured. I don't see why this item should be given a special treatment over other articles. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:02, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I dunno, but doesn't ITN re-feature a blurb when a significant update happened, irrespective of the amount of time in between? –HowardtheDuck12:15, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to wait to hear what others think on this, and follow consensus. But please remember we didn't feature the swine flu item everytime it hit the news front pages. --BorgQueen (talk) 12:19, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This could've been avoided if someone pointed out earlier that there was a survivor and it would've been bumped upward while it's live on the template. –HowardtheDuck12:24, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Another things is that we are currently featuring only five items because DYK features six items only now and we have to maintain a reasonable Main Page balance. The folks at DYK reduced the number of hooks in each update from eight to seven, and then again to six recently, because they are suffering from a lower number of submissions... --BorgQueen (talk) 12:34, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Croatia
Needs attention. Fast developing story regarding the PM stepping down. Change of government is usually ITN material. --Tone13:01, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
[6] [7] [8] - TouLouse (talk) 16:01, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
--BorgQueen (talk) 04:38, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
--candle•wicke 15:16, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Ashish-g55 15:46, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
--BorgQueen (talk) 18:12, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
--candle•wicke 18:35, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Some are here. --candle•wicke 19:23, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
--Tone 19:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
(sniffle) --candle•wicke 19:36, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Ashish-g55 19:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
. Cargoking talk 20:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
--candle•wicke 21:32, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! --BorgQueen (talk) 16:37, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Done MacMedtalkstalk 16:38, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
