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Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/September 2020

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September 30

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September 30, 2020 (2020-09-30) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

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(Posted) RD: Pia Juul

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Article: Pia Juul (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Dagens Nyheter, Svenska Dagbladet
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Danish poet. Article not ready (very short, bibliography completely unreferenced). Might be possible to fix by expanding from the Danish article. TompaDompa (talk) 15:04, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Well, the bibliography has now been sourced. I also noticed that the German article looks to be even better than the Danish one, so we could try to use that one for expanding the article. TompaDompa (talk) 15:30, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • SupportOppose on quality. Well done TompaDompa. Good to go now. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 16:03, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • SupportOppose A translation of the German page will result in a basic page, however Pia Juul has very little relevance outside of Denmark. I checked the national libraries in Auth Ctrl, and there is one English translation, one Dutch translation, and two German translations. That cannot be considered an international break-through. KittenKlub (talk) 16:06, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@KittenKlub: Just FYI, RD bios don't need to be notable only the article needs to be up to the mark for main page linking. Gotitbro (talk) 17:47, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Gotitbro: In that case, I'd recommend translating the German version.KittenKlub (talk) 17:54, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Which itself is only 220 words. – Sca (talk) 21:56, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Emyr Humphreys

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Article: Emyr Humphreys (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 14:53, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Quino

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Article: Quino (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, La Repubblica, El País
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Renowned Argentine cartoonist, father of Mafalda. Article needs work. Alsoriano97 (talk) 16:38, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Support - On relevance. Oppose for now per article quality. Ping me when completed. --BabbaQ (talk) 19:54, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 29

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September 29, 2020 (2020-09-29) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

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Science and technology

(Closed) RD: Mac Davis

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Stale. SpencerT•C 13:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Mac Davis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Billboard CNN LA Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Renowned country music writer, composer, "country star", singer. Elvis and Dolly Parton used his work a lot. I will address the citations needed. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:49, 30 September 2020 (UTC) (UTC)[reply]
Over 440 thousand views here. Oh well. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 10:53, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
[[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]], people are finding the article without it being on the template, that's a good thing. If the article's quality was better, it could get posted still. Page views are not a metric considered here. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:42, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Timothy Ray Brown

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Article: Timothy Ray Brown (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN, BBC, The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: First person to be cured of HIV/AIDS, the so-called "Berlin patient". Died September 29 according to the Los Angeles Blade. TompaDompa (talk) 15:58, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Helen Reddy

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Article: Helen Reddy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 02:41, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Article seems well sourced and subject seems significant. The Image Editor (talk) 11:49, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It just wasn't ready yet. – Sca (talk) 15:41, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. Admins posting RDs are supposed to check if an article is actually ready before posting it. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 15:53, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
My ineptitude has already been acknowledged. I'm surprised it took you this long to figure that out. Everyone else here already knew how terrible I am. --Jayron32 11:19, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Jayron32, Hey! It is not such a big mistake. The article visually looked clean! It is alright. Such things happen. Ktin (talk) 14:29, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So is Reddy ready? – Sca (talk) 21:59, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ready? Every citation needed tag has now been addressed except for one on a list of her "notable stage roles". I seek advice on how to tackle that. Otherwise, this is now well sourced. HiLo48 (talk) 06:57, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @HiLo48: Eeek, thanks for the good work there. I've managed to source all the stage entries in that list you mention (while removing a couple of references to specific theatres, which I couldn't locate cites for). However... unfortunately there were a few other statements further up that lacked cites and hadn't been tagged yet, so those will need fixing too unfortunately. Also, the Filmography section needs referencing. I will try to muck in on some of this a bit later on today if I can, but hopefully we can get this one over the line!  — Amakuru (talk) 08:30, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment The filmography is now fully cited. Ackatsis (talk) 10:07, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment Hurry up and post this before it gets stale. 1779Days (talk) 03:46, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support - In numbers too big to ignore. CoatCheck (talk) 04:48, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing removal: 2020 Belarusian protests

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No consensus to remove from ongoing. Stephen 00:16, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2020 Belarusian protests (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)
Nominator's comments: About one prose update every two days. Probably not enough for Ongoing. Protests seemed to have scaled down, now it's only people marching around and being noisy. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 19:33, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • We did not post Lukashenko getting sworn in, an event that caused much controversy in Europe. So we should probably remove this since there are only people marching and holding signs. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 19:35, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Only people marching and holding signs"...unbelievable. Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:15, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose removal. Article is still receiving substantive updates. Most recent significant protest on 27 September was widely reported and is covered in the article. There are also smaller updates being made. --Jayron32 13:06, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This story is already stale and the article's quality is regressing as time goes by. This might regain significance if 1) Lukashenko resigns, which is hardly going to happen and 2) the international community recognises Tikhanovskaya as a new president in a Venezuelan style, which is also unlikely to happen (I deliberately avoid outright negation because of WP:CRYSTALBALL). All in all, we may keep this story on the main page forever but that's not what it is in reality.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:04, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Comment Neither opposed or supporting removal, but I think how we're judging ongoing entries (via updates) particularly in large articles with segmented parts like this is directly tied to how poorly we write with PROSELINE and the "hyperreporting" (in terms that people are writing about daily events and not, as we should be, talking the encyclopedic picture, though a timeline article is not inappropriate). I'm not saying here this meets the removal or retention goals, but I can see why its a question, because if we were writing this more encyclopedically, the small updates would be trivial on this event (even though it was still "ongoing"). --Masem (t) 18:10, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The new sanctions were literally the lead story internationally today. However, I agree with Masem that we need to re-evaluate our ongoing criteria to allow stories like this to remain in the template without POINTy opposition from LaserLegs and others over not enough proseline, which is a bad standard for an encyclopedia article. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 18:18, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Are you talking about the one-sentence flawed grammar update with the POV term "regime"? Lead story all day and it one one poor quality bullet point. I'm just following the guidelines which I even proposed to change but no one was interested. If you have a problem with that take it to WP:ANI because if there is one thing I'm certain of it's that I don't need to be personally attacked by someone who hasn't even bothered to evaluate the article we're featuring on the main page instead of the story. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:34, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I didn’t mean that as a personal attack, more of an attack on the guideline and overzealous applications of it. But saying that you’re “just following the guidelines” when you agree that they are sometimes

problematic is unambiguous WP:POINT. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 23:44, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think you mistook Masem's point. The issue here is people want ongoing items to stay posted forever, so they make negligible updates documenting the "events of the day" in order to meet the ongoing criteria. These events are too minor to be listed in a proper encyclopedia article. So in trying to manipulate the ITN process, we are subverting it's intent - to write and promote good articles. GreatCaesarsGhost 23:53, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the point if not the intention. Editors shouldn’t have to add micro-updates to keep an article in ongoing. If the topic is still getting major international coverage, as this one is (see recent stories on sanctions), it should be kept regardless. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 15:29, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"it should be kept regardless" that is the exact opposite of what the guidelines for ongoing stipulate and "Keep" !votes based on that logic should be ignored (they won't be, consensus around here is a vote count). Change the criteria if that's what you want, right now your argument has no basis in the existing guidelines. --LaserLegs (talk) 02:07, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support removal. I would like to remind everyone of the guidelines for ongoing events at WP:ITN. "In general, articles are NOT posted to ongoing merely because they are related to events that are still happening. In order to be posted to ongoing, the article needs to be regularly updated with new, pertinent information." So, while it is in the news, it should be removed if it is not being updated. -- Calidum 23:54, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Close this is the 3rd time that the ongoing has been nominated for removal. Although I agree with the removal, there is a strong consensus to keep this. Suggest a WP:SNOW close. Dan the Animator 00:24, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Destroyeraa The first nom was closed with a consensus for keeping and the last nom you closed. The last nom was less than 2 weeks ago. I don't think the consensus has changed that much since then to justify reposting this this soon. Maybe wait a few more weeks? Dan the Animator 20:37, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"If the EU declares war"… Ridiculously uninformed/misleading comment. EU cannot declare war. --Mango från yttre rymden (talk) 20:42, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Death of Emir Kuwait Sabah Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah

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Article: Sabah Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Emir of Kuwait Sheikh Sabah al-Sabah dies aged 91. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Nawaf Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah becomes the Emir of Kuwait after the death of his half-brother, Sabah Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah, at the age of 91.
News source(s): https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54340988
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: The death of head of state --Tensa Februari (talk) 14:42, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Should we not combine this with the fact that his brother has/will succeed him? That's ITNR. 331dot (talk) 15:17, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Minor influence? He has been one of the most important diplomats in Arabia, especially during his reign for his role as a mediator during disputes between neighboring countries. Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:11, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) MS Estonia

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No consensus to post. Stephen 00:17, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: MS Estonia (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Discovery of a large hole in the hull of MS Estonia, which sank in 1994, killing 852 people aboard, causes international scandal after suspicions return that it sank after collision with a Swedish submarine. (Post)
News source(s): [3] [4] [5]
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Has been THE biggest topic of discussion here in Estonia, but also in Sweden and other Scandinavian countries. Basically it was a popular conspiracy theory that the ship colluded with a military vessel before sinking and now we have major proof that the official story that it sank because its visor broke down is not true. This prompted responces from Estonia's PM, foreign ministers of all Scandinavian countries, an so on... They also decided to restart the official investigation --CoronaOneLove (talk) 11:33, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting adverb. Did you coin that one yrself? – Sca (talk) 12:52, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 28

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September 28, 2020 (2020-09-28) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

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Sports

(Posted) Stanley Cup

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Article: 2020 Stanley Cup Finals (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In ice hockey, the Tampa Bay Lightning defeat the Dallas Stars to win the Stanley Cup (Conn Smythe Trophy winner Victor Hedman pictured). (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In ice hockey, the Tampa Bay Lightning defeat the Dallas Stars to win the Stanley Cup (MVP awardee Victor Hedman pictured).
News source(s): [6]
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 --Bongwarrior (talk) 16:01, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Trump Tax Returns

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SNOW consensus closure. --Masem (t) 05:13, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Tax returns of Donald Trump (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ President Donald Trump's tax returns show he only paid $750 in taxes in 2016 and 2017 (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ President Trump's tax returns are released by the New York Times
News source(s): https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
Credits:
Nominator's comments: This seems like the end to a long battle that has had heavy news coverage. Sixula (talk) 01:42, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 27

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September 27, 2020 (2020-09-27) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

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Sports

(Posted) RD: John Waddy

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Article: John Waddy (British Army officer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Somerset Gazette
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: 100 year old former British SAS officer and military advisor to the film A Bridge Too Far – marked as good article JW 1961 Talk 11:47, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support I think this article looks ready to go. KittenKlub (talk) 12:14, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Mahbubey Alam

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Stale. SpencerT•C 18:40, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Mahbubey Alam (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.newagebd.net/article/117436
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Attorney General of Bangladesh, covid DannyS712 (talk) 21:12, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Wolfgang Clement

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Article: Wolfgang Clement (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Der Spiegel
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German Politician. Former Minister President of North-Rhine Westphalia. Article requires some major work. a) References across the board b) content streamlining c) copy-edits. Might have to enlist support from others here to get this article in a ready state for homepage. All three categories of edits are done! The article has shaped out pretty well! Meets all hygiene elements for the homepage. Solid B-class article Ktin (talk) 18:20, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

KittenKlub, Agree. I went in and did some content streamlining / copy-editing on the front end of the article in the meantime. Ktin (talk) 20:03, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

::Gerda Arendt, still working on rewriting the content. We will be done soon. Thanks. Ktin (talk) 22:21, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

bedtime for me ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:22, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Nagorno-Karabakh clashes

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Article: September 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh clashes (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Azerbaijani and Armenian armed forces clash in Nagorno-Karabakh, prompting the introduction of martial law in Armenia and Azerbaijan and total mobilization in Armenia. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Armenia and Artsakh declare martial law and begin general mobilization as Azerbaijani and Artsakh armed forces clash in Nagorno-Karabakh.
News source(s): BBC, US News, AP, dpa, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Another serious escalation of the decades-long Nagorno-Karabakh conflict and, apparently, one of the heaviest. Brandmeistertalk 12:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What does that mean? I also went to cascade last night and got my booze. No cops around. 37.186.97.171 (talk) 10:27, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There's not going to be a war (yes overnight and this morning continued). Turkey is not going to go against the Russians and Iran too.37.186.97.171 (talk) 10:33, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • comment Azeri parliament is discussing introduction of martial law as well right now. The ruling party (and de-facto the only real party) is in favour 212.74.201.241 (talk) 13:50, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    comment Yep, they just declared martial law as well. Someone should amend the blurb212.74.201.241 (talk) 13:57, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Would support, major escalation. Though the article needs copyediting/updates for the lay reader not familiar with the conflict, for e.g., the lead says "Both sides reported military and civilian casualties" but lists the three Armenia, Azerbaijan and Nagorno-Karabakh in the lead sentence. The alt-blurb is definitely a no-go, none of the sources refer to Artsakh and the primary conflict is between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Gotitbro (talk) 16:01, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It literally is Artsakh. Armenia was not attacked stepenakart and the area around is administrativelu a part of Artsakh, which is its own jurisdiction from Yerevan run Armenia. 37.186.97.171 (talk) 10:36, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's total mobilization. I know many, many men due to report in the coming days (not including volunteers).37.186.97.171 (talk) 10:41, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well good then that this was not included in the blurb. Gotitbro (talk) 12:49, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jaswant Singh

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Article: Jaswant Singh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NDTV
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian politician DannyS712 (talk) 05:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Article will require some work, including multiple citations (across sections) and copy edits.'Positions held' segment might be challenging to source. But, overall - definitely worth putting in the effort to get the article ready. All referencing done. Round of copy edits done. Article meets hygiene checks for homepage / RD. Ktin (talk) 08:07, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Updated the 'positions held' segment and the books segment with citations. Might have to look at the other segments as well. Done. Article is now referenced through out and a round of copy edits done too. If folks want any other edit done, I can have this covered in the morning. Calling it a night. I think the article is ready for homepage / RD. Ktin (talk) 07:09, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Susan Ryan

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Article: Susan Ryan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Guardian, The Australian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian senator. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 02:47, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 26

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September 26, 2020 (2020-09-26) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Health and environment

Politics

(Posted) RD: Isher Judge Ahluwalia

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Article: Isher Judge Ahluwalia (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Livemint
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Noted Indian Economist. Padmashri Awardee. Start-class article. I will spend time tonight expanding the article. Edits done. Solid C-class article. Looks clean and passes all hygiene checks (including references) to go to the homepage / RD. Happy to include any additional edits. Ktin (talk) 23:38, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose for now on quality, entire unreferenced section. Can reassess later. -- a lad insane (channel two) 23:58, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    A lad insane, Apologies -- you caught me as I was in the middle of my edits. Fully referenced now. Continuing to work on expanding the article. Edits done. Ktin (talk) 00:44, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. As noted above. Edits have been done. Clean article, meets all hygiene checks (including references) to go to homepage / RD. I came across a story when trying to expand this article that I thought I should share here. Dr Ahluwalia's husband Montek Singh Ahluwalia is also an economist (and was the Deputy chairperson of India's planning commission. Arguably amongst the top 2-3 finance portfolio functions in the Indian cabinet). A journalist calling home:“Can I speak to Dr Ahluwalia?”; IJA:“Speaking”; Journalist (puzzled): “Can I speak to the other Dr Ahluwalia?”. IJA:“There is only one Dr Ahluwalia in this house”, and put down the phone down. [6] Here's to Dr IJA, and to everyone who break these glass ceilings! Ktin (talk) 01:27, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Please can I request a pair of eyes on this article. I think the article meets homepage / RD requirements and can go there in this state.
  • Support, but suggest toning down the "she was a published author" part. It's not unusual for academics to write books after all. I don't think you can really expect an admin to post an article with just one supporting vote from the nom! —Brigade Piron (talk) 16:11, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Brigade Piron, Agree, and done! Edited.
    Apologies -- my messages were not aimed at the Admins. I was looking for more editors such as yourself to chime in on the homepage readiness. Agree w/ your statement entirely. Ktin (talk) 16:43, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Spencer, Stephen, Amakuru, Black Kite, and MSGJ: - Pardon the intrusion. This is ready to be posted on the homepage / RD. Ktin (talk) 19:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  •   Posted — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:35, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 25

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September 25, 2020 (2020-09-25) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

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Politics and elections

Sports

(Closed) 2020 Chuhuiv An-26 crash

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WP:SNOW close. Tragic Military accident but not notable enough for ITN. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 17:02, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2020 Chuhuiv An-26 crash (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An Antonov An-26 military transport plane crashed during a training flight in Eastern Ukraine, killing 26 people onboard. (Post)
News source(s): BBC CNN
Credits:

Article updated
 EugεnS¡m¡on 06:30, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Peter Hampton

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Article: Peter Hampton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Stoke Sentinel
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Short but sourced. Black Kite (talk) 09:32, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) New president in Mali

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Articles: 2020 Malian coup d'état (talk · history · tag) and Bah Ndaw (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Bah Ndaw is sworn in as President of Mali to head a transitional government after the coup d'état. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Bah Ndaw takes office as Mali's transitional President following a coup d'état the previous month
News source(s): BBC, Reuters
Article updated
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: After the coup d'état that overthrown Ibrahim Boubacar Keita, the military junta names a new president to preside the 18-month transition. Bah Ndaw have the validation of the European Union and ECOWAS. Like Sudan, it seems that Mali will have a pacific and civilian transition. Alsoriano97 (talk) 12:52, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not the place. Go to the talk page This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 03:36, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As to this being ITNR or not, I think a new head of state being sworn in after the previous one was overthrown fits with the spirit of the ITNR listing, especially if the new leader seems to be generally accepted as such. But this seems to have consensus even without ITNR. If users want to exclude the replacement of an overthrown head of state from ITNR, they may discuss such an idea. 331dot (talk) 13:28, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: S. P. Balasubrahmanyam

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Article: S. P. Balasubrahmanyam (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hindu
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Another COVID-19 death. Indian playback singer with over 40,000 songs in 16 Indian languages. Article requires some streamlining of citations and some copy-edits. RIP. [12] Thank you for all the wonderful memories through the years SPB! Ktin (talk) 08:20, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Italian constitutional referendum

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Article: 2020 Italian constitutional referendum (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Italy votes to amend its constitution to reduce the size of its Parliament by a third. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, NY Times
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Italy (G7 country) votes to amend its constitution. Similar to a general election which are ITN/R. Honestly surprised it wasn't put up a few days ago. Plus, it's at ITN on the French Wikipedia. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 02:03, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Although, after this reduction, Italy's Parliament (400 + 200) is still larger the U.S. Congress (435 + 100), even though the U.S. has more than five times the population. Davey2116 (talk) 19:40, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, terribly busy today. Looks like this story isn't in the news anymore, sadly This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 05:13, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Spencer: I added in citations. It should be good now. Dan the Animator 00:09, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 24

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September 24, 2020 (2020-09-24) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economics
  • German vehicle company BMW is fined $18 million by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to resolve allegations that it inflated sales figures between 2015 and 2019. The fine amounts to less than 0.3% of the company's yearly income. (AP)

Health and environment

Law and crime

(Stale) RD: John J. Myers

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Stale. SpencerT•C 02:48, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: John J. Myers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): North Jersey, WVIK
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 05:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Gerhard Weber (designer)

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Article: Gerhard Weber (designer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): fashionunited.uk and all major German newspapers
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: He created a fashion imperium out of nothing and lost it - see how Steffi Graf and Whitney Houston belong in the story. - The article was just a redirect to the company. I'm not sure "designer" is the best dab. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:04, 25 September 2020 (UTC) Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:04, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. Looks clean, and well cited. Nicely done in building the entire article from what was earlier a redirect. I am going to put on the Spencer Standard, and request for the coverage gap between 1990 and 2015 to be filled. Also, any more information on how did he 'lose it all'. Ktin (talk) 21:38, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you for looking and copy-edit - not my typical topic. The loss seems more a topic for the company, no? Built too many small shops which were seen as unwanted competition by those who had bought retail. One sources says that the designs were suitable for ladies past 50, but I never know how much interpretation of a journalist is involved. Another source says the 2015 Logistic Center was too expensive. Bedtime for me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:28, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Sekhar Basu

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Article: Sekhar Basu (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Indian Express
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Sorry for the multiple Indian RD nominations. Another COVID-19 death. Indian nuclear scientist. Former Chairman of Atomic Energy Commission of India. Padma Shri awardee. Article has an yellow tag, and a good amount of rewrites required to ensure WP:NPOV. Will work on the article for a bit before before calling it a night. Done for the day. Article is getting there! This is done. Content rewrite is done. Looks good, if I may say so. Ktin (talk) 06:29, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing removal: 2020 Western United States wildfires

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Strong consensus against removal. – Ammarpad (talk) 17:24, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2020 Western United States wildfires (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: It was definitely in the news a few weeks ago, especially with apocalyptically looking images coming out of San Francisco and Oregon. Nonetheless, the death toll and financial damages are not particularly high for an ITN recurring disaster. I am aware the article does still get updates, but at this point, the world has largely moved on. Albertaont (talk) 07:24, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The criteria for Ongoing, summarised, are; regular updates to the original article; pertinent updates to the original article; does not mean the article has a featured status beyond its place in the Ongoing heading. If the wildfires nomination no longer meets these, then it should be removed. doktorb wordsdeeds 08:48, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Dean Jones

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Article: Dean Jones (cricketer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-24/dean-jones-australian-test-cricketer-dead-at-59/12700456
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian cricketer, commentator and coach. Died of a heart attack at the age of 59. HiLo48 (talk) 11:30, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong support The article is in good shape and well sourced. There is a wide coverage about his demise amid being one of the commentators of the ongoing 2020 Indian Premier League. I was actually confused why the place of death was mentioned as Mumbai instead of UAE where the IPL is currently being held. Abishe (talk) 11:47, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 23

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September 23, 2020 (2020-09-23) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Closed) Alexander Lukashenko

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WP:SNOW. Unanimous opsn. No chance.
– Sca (talk) 15:46, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(non-admin closure)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Alexander Lukashenko (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Alexander Lukashenko is inaugurated President of Belarus for a sixth term in a ceremony at the Independence Palace. (Post)
News source(s): The Moscow Times, BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: We've frequently posted ITN on the formal inauguration of heads of state and chiefs of government like Igor Matovič, Donald Trump, etc. Given that the incumbent has been widely in the news recently, it would seem odd to omit this one regardless of the tumult that surrounded the actual election. Chetsford (talk) 17:41, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It was a significant step for Lukashenko as an attempt to discourage his opposition. Nothing more. IMO --Whydoesitfeelsogood (talk) 02:42, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Harold Evans

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Article: Harold Evans (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times, Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 14:34, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support article seems well sourced. Relevation Animations (talk) 16:08, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Weak Oppose missing a few in-text refs. Will support once those are added. Dan the Animator 16:20, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Suresh Angadi

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Article: Suresh Angadi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hindu, New Indian Express
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian Member of Parliament, and Minister of State for Railways. Article is well referenced and is start-class. COVID-19 death. Ktin (talk) 01:22, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Cyclone Ianos

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Article: Cyclone Ianos (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Cities such as Karditsa and Athens are flooded and four people were killed after Cyclone Ianos hits Greece. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ After Cyclone Ianos stalls over Greece, more than four people have died and one missing, and entire towns were flooded.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Ianos stalled over Greece from September 17 to 20. Three days later, the country is still in a state of chaos as Athens remains flooded along with other major cities. This is one of Greece's first major tropical cyclones.

" ~ Destroyeraa🌀 18:54, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Trump considering measures to bypass election results

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WP:SNOW close. Trump may be suggesting he'll try to contest the election results, and that might be significant enough for a blurb, if he does. But, the mere speculation is not ITN. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:14, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2020 United States presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Donald Trump's campaign is discussing with local legislatures plans to appoint electors (Post)
News source(s): Forbes, The Atlantic
Credits:

Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: "...the Trump campaign is discussing potential strategies to circumvent the results of the 2020 election, should Joe Biden defeat Donald Trump, by first alleging the existence of rampant fraud and then appointing electors in battleground states where Republicans maintain a legislative majority, whom Trump would ask to bypass the state’s popular vote and instead to choose electors loyal to the GOP and the sitting president.

" Count Iblis (talk) 18:48, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Gale Sayers

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Article: Gale Sayers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN, Chicago Sun-Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Hall of Fame Chicago Bears tailback. GA status. rawmustard (talk) 13:55, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Not removed) Ongoing removal: 2020 Belarusian Protests

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(non-admin closure) Pretty much evenly split. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 19:29, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2020 Belarusian protests (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Our oldest blurb is from 14 Sept. Since 15 Sept. (8 days) there has been 4 prose updates to the article: 1, 2, 3 and 4. Except for the last and oldest, they all document routine protest antics and politicking. A search for "Belarus" or "Lukashenko" in native tongue from high profile RSs (LA Times, Chicago Tribune, NY Times, Le Monde, El País, Der Spiegel) revealed 0 (zero) stories on front pages. The European RSs have decisively moved onto the Navalny story. The lack of high-profile RS coverage combined with slow/crime blotter updates suggests to me that this should go for now. 130.233.2.170 (talk) 05:36, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, please. Ongoing is not the same as a blurb and there's no requirement that any recent events there be blurb worthy. In fact, the ITN rules for ongoing say precisely the opposite: "Generally, these are stories which may lack a blurb-worthy event, but which nonetheless are still getting regular updates to the relevant article." I'm sure that Putin and Lukashenko would like this story to go away, quietly. But with a march of over 100,000 people just this Sunday that's not going to happen. Nsk92 (talk) 07:50, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Mass protests are still ongoing, the article is updated daily. --WEBDuB (talk) 09:39, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support there aren't updates about mass protests daily because there aren't daily protests. Last major one was the 20th, the 13th before that and the 6th before that. This as become a weekend affair and in between are long rambling paragraphs recording in detail every comment by protest organizers and every slight or perceived slight by the government. The symbols section (itself the focus of a simmering edit war in the article) is now orange tagged for undue. It's time to come down. If they unseat the government, blurb it. --LaserLegs (talk) 09:55, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The largest protest since the dispited election took place just this Sunday. Today, Sept 23, a few hours ago, Lukashenko has just been sworn in as President for another term in a semi-secret inauguration ceremony in Minsk[19]. There's certain to be a reaction from the opposition. This story is not over, by far. Nsk92 (talk) 10:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Like I said, 3 protests in 4 weeks is not regularly updated with new, pertinent information. I'm just applying the actual criteria here. You should too. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:33, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's not just 3 protests in 4 weeks. There are smaller scale protests happening around the country every day. E.g. RFE/RL has a page about Belarus in English with many updates [20], and there are a lot more news-sources in Russian, with a lot more detailed info abour what's going on (e.g. Novaya Gazeta [21], as a smaple example). One needs to use common sense too. The fact that the largest protest was just 3 days ago certainly does not indicate that the situation is winding down, quite the opposite. Now that Lukashenko's secret inauguration has taken place today, there's almost certain to be escalation of some kind. Russia is there conducting paratrooper military exercises in Belarus in the last few days [22][23]. Now is not the time to yank this story. Nsk92 (talk) 11:16, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't care about RFE I care about the article we have linked on the main page and an "an access control scheme was introduced" at Minsk State University is not a protest. Lots of filler in an article which wasn't that great to begin with and is time to come down. --LaserLegs (talk) 11:42, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Kinda ridiculous to tear things out of context like that. The people of Belarus strongly oppose another term of Lukashenko, there are strikes ongoing, including mine and hunger strikes. Major events have all been called off by Belarusian celebrities. Your quote only reflects the means undertaken to suppress discontent coming it from students and professors of major state universities. Everything aforementioned "is a protest" in my opinion. And, matter of fact, Strong oppose the removal. Also, yes, I'm allowed to change my mind. --Whydoesitfeelsogood (talk) 00:22, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Article is being updated frequently with relevant information. Sadly, it suffers from some WP:PROSELINE stylistic issues, but the article is otherwise well referenced, comprehensive, and most importantly, frequently updated with new information. There is both new information AND it is being added, which is sufficient for keeping the article at Ongoing. --Jayron32 11:46, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose removal – Still in the news, [24] [25] [26] still a serious political situation. – Sca (talk) 13:23, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment — Worth of a mention is the fact that in Russian Wikipedia, the timeline is still being updated on a daily basis. While most of those events are self-repeating, there is some interesting storywise development underway (e.g. sources mentioning the current EU debate on whom to consider the real head of state of Belarus). The problem is that I now seldom have time to update the timeline of the English article because it does take a considerable amount thereof to check Russian sources, translation, spelling etc. --Whydoesitfeelsogood (talk) 13:58, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Lukashenko was sworn in today in a surprise inauguration and the opposition has called for new protests. It's one of the top stories on the BBC. Johndavies837 (talk) 14:56, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose per above, very much still in the news and developing. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 16:31, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support removal per LaserLegs. "3 protests in 4 weeks is not regularly updated with new, pertinent information." Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 17:37, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Three protests in four weeks? How about ten protests per country (one in each major city) every day? --Whydoesitfeelsogood (talk) 00:17, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The purpose of the ongoing section is to maintain a link to a continuously updated Wikipedia article about a story which is itself also frequently in the news.. The Belarusian protests article is getting punctuated updates with a lot of filler in between. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:57, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is, there is unrest still going on. --Whydoesitfeelsogood (talk) 16:59, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is, the article is inadequately updated for being featured on the main page. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:25, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Except the article is being regularly updated every day or so, sometimes more often. See no true Scotsman and moving the goal posts. --Jayron32 17:04, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree Jayron32, but you and I disagree as to the pertinence of those updates to the subject. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:59, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You really think so? How about what's been happening there since yesterday's inauguration of Lukashenko? [30] [31] [32] [33] Nsk92 (talk) 17:45, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"How about what's been happening there since yesterday's inauguration of Lukashenko?" Protesters protesting? That happens every day all over the world. Nothing that warrants continued front page presence. In any case, the quality of the article isn't sufficient to appear on the front page. Chetsford (talk) 11:14, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 22

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September 22, 2020 (2020-09-22) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

(Stale) RD: Road Warrior Animal

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Stale --DannyS712 (talk) 05:27, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Road Warrior Animal (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Fox
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 05:13, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 21

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September 21, 2020 (2020-09-21) (Monday)
Business and economy

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Tommy DeVito

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Article: Tommy DeVito (musician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Founding member and former guitarist of The Four Seasons. Covid related. Nonstopmaximum (talk) 18:34, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Stale) RD: Michael Lonsdale

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Stale --DannyS712 (talk) 05:27, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Michael Lonsdale (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: French-British actor. Article seems ready. Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:34, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Robert Freeman Smith

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Article: Robert Freeman Smith (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Bend Bulletin, Mail Tribune
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American politician, served in the House of Representatives. On the short side, so I'll be adding content and filling in sources. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 15:52, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ang Rita Sherpa

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Article: Ang Rita (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Ang Rita Sherpa, who reached the summit of the Mount Everest ten times without the bottled oxygen dies aged 72. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Ang Rita Sherpa, the first person to climb the Mount Everest ten times dies at the age of 72.
News source(s): BBC The Kathmandu Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 --Special:Contributions/Chomolungma8848 (talk) 20:38, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Microsoft purchasing ZeniMax Media

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(non-admin closure) Closing - no consensus to post. Ktin (talk) 21:42, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: ZeniMax Media (talk · history · tag) and Microsoft (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Microsoft purchases ZeniMax Media for 7.5 billion U.S. Dollars. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Microsoft announces a deal to purchase ZeniMax Media for 7.5 billion U.S. Dollars.
News source(s): Bloomberg BBC, Financial Times
First article updated, second needs updating
Nominator's comments: We had precedents of posting major deals (valued at > ~5 bil dollars) and this is a big deal for the industry. Plus, regulatory approval isn't a factor. --212.74.201.241 (talk) 20:38, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose (and this from a VG editor). It is a major deal in the VG world, its what everyone in that field is talking about today, but in terms of world changing financial news, nope. It would take me more than one sentence to explain the significance and I feel that makes it beyond the scope of ITN (Also, this is the intent to buy, the deal not expected to close until second half of 2021). --Masem (t) 21:50, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment Added an altblurb to correct for my mistake there. Not sure if we need to explain the significance further for ITN, but let's see what other editors think. 212.74.201.241 (talk) 22:30, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose the ZeniMax article is "meh" quality and MS acquiring a AAA game foundry seems like an incremental step in the console wars. Per Masem above though it's a big deal in the field. I'll support if it'll get TES 6 released some time before 2025. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:44, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - It would take Microsoft buying Apple for an acquisition to make it to ITN. WaltCip-(talk) 00:09, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It would take much more than that, even! A few months back US oil producers were willing to pay customers about $40k per truck to cart away crude, something that hasn't happened since the discovery of naphtha ca. 4000 BC. Still wasn't notable enough to post!130.233.2.170 (talk) 05:24, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Is there any information re: significance of the deal? The nomination rationale hopefully is more than "we have precedents of posting major deals". That said, I did a quick and random search of the archives (non exhaustive, obviously) and here's a summary for anyone who wants a ready reckoner. Ktin (talk) 01:03, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
# Acquisition Deal Value Status Link
1 Microsoft acquisition of Linkedin $26.2B Posted [37]
2 Yahoo acquisition of Tumblr $1.1B Not Posted [38]
3 Bayer acquisition of Monsanto $66B Not Posted [39]
4 Verizon acquiring Vodafone's stake in Verizon wireless $130B Posted [40]
5 Nokia acquisition of Alcatel Lucent $16.6B Posted [41]

PS: Above table is not to be MIS-interpreted as me making the case for a co-relation between the size of the deal and us posting or not. In fact just by the above data points, one could make the case that there is NO co-relation. Anyways, posted a search from the archives if it helps anyone. Happy to delete the table. I have no opinion for or against this article. Good luck. Ktin (talk) 01:22, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lol, it's enlightening to look through these old nominations to see if one has been consistent. Banedon (talk) 01:32, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose mainly because I don't see it in the news much. It's there if I look for it, but not otherwise; it's only featured on finance websites. The news articles that do cover it refer to the company being bought as "Bethesda" as well, which is not a good sign for linking ZeniMax Media. Banedon (talk) 01:32, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I reverted the close not because I think this nomination shouldn't be closed, but because the close reason is naive. Microsoft cannot possibly buy Apple because Apple is bigger than Microsoft (Apple is currently worth ~$2 trillion, Microsoft ~$1.5 trillion). Similarly Microsoft buying Google is implausible, while Amazon buying Apple is impossible. Banedon (talk) 01:56, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ping Destroyeraa since it is your closure that I'm reverting. Banedon (talk) 01:56, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Topic is in the news (I have added a FT source to the nom), companies are apparently notable ones that would be familiar to readers, and contra above I feel that both articles are in good shape. The MSFT article needs to be updated, however.130.233.2.170 (talk) 05:24, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support – Some quality IPs involved in this takeover, including The Elder Scrolls and Fallout from Bethesda with 59 and 33 million lifetime sales, respectively, and Doom from id Software which jumpstarted the first-person shooter genre. The video game industry in general is not well-represented at ITN...e-sports aren't included at ITN/R even tho it has a wider audience than a certain boat race. I guess that one is a discussion for a diff place tho so I digress. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 05:47, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Masem. Though in the news, not much significance or impact on people except those in the affected companies and videogamers.~ Destroyeraa🌀 12:35, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Per Masem, Destroyeraa. Lacks broad significance. – Sca (talk) 14:53, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WP:POINT
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Stale) RD: Bob Nevin

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Stale --DannyS712 (talk) 05:26, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Bob Nevin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [42]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article is in decent shape. The orange tag may not be necessary. Dan the Animator 23:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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September 20

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September 20, 2020 (2020-09-20) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

Sports

(Posted) Emmy Awards

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Article: 72nd Primetime Emmy Awards (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At the Primetime Emmy Awards, Schitt's Creek becomes the first series to win all seven major awards in a single year (Lead Actor winner and producer Eugene Levy pictured). (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ At the Primetime Emmy Awards, Schitt's Creek (lead actor Eugene Levy pictured) wins in seven major categories.
News source(s): New York Times AV Club
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: If the Emmys were ever going to make ITN, this is it. Historically notable, at least in the world of television/entertainment, for a series to sweep like this. Morgan695 (talk) 01:57, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • That's about changing categories. That didn't happen this year. Last year there was something different about nominations that warranted prose. There was not this year, even with the pandemic. Do you want to write about something that didn't happen? Kingsif (talk) 17:14, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) U.S. Open (golf)

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Article: 2020 U.S. Open (golf) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In golf, Bryson DeChambeau wins the U.S. Open. (Post)
News source(s): CBS Sports
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Obviously not postable until the revdel banner is taken care of, but prose seems decent for each round other than that. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 00:34, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Oppose. At very least the "field" section needs to be stripped out and put into its own article, same as happened for the 2020 PGA Championship field after the ITN discussion on that article. And per the nom, this clearly can't be posted until the revdel has been dealt with. --Bcp67 (talk) 07:22, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

FinCEN Files

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Article: FinCEN Files (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The FinCEN Files, a leak of suspicious activity reports and other documents, reveal how global financial institutions processed transactions on behalf of sanctioned entities, terrorists, and organized criminals. (Post)
News source(s): Buzzfeed ICIJ DW etc.
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Breaking news, will be here sooner rather than later. MER-C 20:15, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

this is [...] basically a package of allegations. We don't post allegations do we?
Is there a material impact of this release, apart from a generalized antipathy towards banks, regulators, etc.? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.233.2.170 (talk) 05:38, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think this shows there was money laundering, the authorities were alerted, and then did nothing about it. Especially when the money laundering is related to evading sanctions and bribery. The impact is that it has forced the financial regulator in the US to overhaul their procedures. - Master Of Ninja (talk) 06:00, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I also take GreatCesaersGhost point that these SARs necessarily mean that "global financial institutions" actually hindered criminal activity, whereas our proposed blurb pointedly asserts the exact opposite. I feel that hiding a link to money laundering (an actual crime) behind a unassuming "processed transactions" (a perfectly legal action) text slants this beyond repair.130.233.2.170 (talk) 05:54, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is a very major story, implicating many banks around the world. There seems to be some confusion above. While SARs do show that the bank is filing suspicious reports, the banks themselves still have to investigate and do things about suspicious activity; filing a SAR is not the only thing they do. And billions of dollars have been able to make it through these large banks. TexanElite (talk) 13:08, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is from a bank lobbyist, but bear with me: “Clearly, there is more to this story, but unfortunately the reporting failed to unearth it, and the banks are legally prohibited from telling their side. In some cases, if the past is any guide, that story likely includes law enforcement asking a bank to keep open an account it has identified as suspicious so that law enforcement can track where the money is going and gather further evidence to support an arrest and conviction.”[43] ~ That criminals launder money is not news. The leak may be news itself; I'd be be opposed anyway. But the big cymbal-crash here is that banks and regulators did nothing which is pure conjecture and not supported by the facts. The fact that these are SARs counters that conclusion. Manafort in particular is called out, which is illogical as he WAS prosecuted for financial crimes. GreatCaesarsGhost 14:02, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose/Wait, as their importance is currently hard to assess. The only basis for which this can be notable is as an event (leak) in its own right, rather than the magnitude of the allegations it purports to disclose. —Brigade Piron (talk) 14:22, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The article looks okay and this is a major report about financial handling globally. Gotitbro (talk) 18:33, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per GCG ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 05:53, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per coverage and importance. --NoonIcarus (talk) 22:29, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: David Cook

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Article: David Cook (Northern Ireland politician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Northern Irish Politician, previously Lord Mayor of Belfast and Police Authority of NI – article is short but well cited JW 1961 Talk 19:26, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Brigade Piron The lead has been updated to include a little more, does that look ok? Thanks JW 1961 Talk 18:00, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed - stale) 2020 Tour de France

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Consensus to post will likely not develop. Discussion is stale.~ Destroyeraa🌀 00:33, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: 2020 Tour de France (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In cycling, Tadej Pogačar wins the Tour de France. (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: I will add prose to the "race overview" section soon, using some of the sourcing and prose found at 2020 Tour de France, Stage 1 to Stage 11 and 2020 Tour de France, Stage 12 to Stage 21. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 17:50, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed - stale) 2020 24 Hours of Le Mans

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Stale.~ Destroyeraa🌀 00:34, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2020 24 Hours of Le Mans (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In motorsport, Toyota Gazoo Racing win the 2020 24 Hours of Le Mans. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In motorsport, Toyota win the 24 Hours of Le Mans for the third straight year.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In endurance racing, the no. 8 Toyota crew of Sébastien Buemi, Brendon Hartley and Kazuki Nakajima win the 2020 24 Hours of Le Mans.
News source(s): Autosport, GP Fans
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: A fairly decent article, but still have some work to do. I would like to spare my effort to improve it, but I have some other projects to do and it is quite late here. Unnamelessness (talk) 13:53, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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(Stale) RD: Mary Pruitt

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Stale --DannyS712 (talk) 05:26, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Mary Pruitt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [44]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article is short but sourced. Dan the Animator 00:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Vague reflections doesn't really add much depth to the article (How did she advocate for education?). On the other hand, information like that she was a member of the Tennessee Black Caucus of State Legislators; served as Chair of the General Welfare and Health/Human Resources committees; etc. [45]. I did some google searching and the amount of information available is admittedly disappointing, so I'll strike my oppose; there's probably more out there in local or book sources, which probably aren't easily accessible. Her House of Representatives bio also has additional information that could go in the article, such as that a library in Nashville is named after her ("Mary and Charles W. Pruitt Public Library"). SpencerT•C 00:12, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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(Posted) RD: Meron Benvenisti

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Article: Meron Benvenisti (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [46]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article is ok. The Publications section may need some work, I think. Dan the Animator 00:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Shehu Idris

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Article: Shehu Idris (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [47]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Present Emir of Zazzau, Nigeria. Em-mustapha talk 12:11, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) TikTok and WeChat

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With thanks to the nominator for the suggestion, but at this time consensus to post seems unlikely to develop.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:15, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Articles: TikTok (talk · history · tag) and WeChat (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The United States bans TikTok and WeChat although ByteDance agreed to allow the US to oversee its user data via Oracle. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The US government forbids TikTok and WeChat from appearing in app stores in the United States
News source(s): [48], [49]
Credits:

Both articles updated
Nominator's comments: This incident has no less global impact than that of Google China. 173.68.165.114 (talk) 02:27, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In the link you shared claiming it wasn't even nominated, there is in fact a nomination for "Ongoing: 2020 China–India skirmishes". Perhaps you should be outraged less and do more? You were free then to nominate the same. --LaserLegs (talk) 09:33, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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September 19

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September 19, 2020 (2020-09-19) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: John Turner

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Article: John Turner (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former prime minister of Canada. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 18:30, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to voice my support for this article's inclusion in the recent deaths category. R. J. Dockery (talk) 18:47, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Conditional Support I see that somebody is hard at work on the article already. As it currently stands the article is under referenced especially "Leader of the Opposition" and "1988 federal election," so you have to upgrade the article to meet the minimum quality standards. And don't forget to credit the copy editor.KittenKlub (talk) 20:46, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nope. Turner held the office of Prime Minister for 79 days (the second-shortest tenure in Canadian history after Sir Charles Tupper), as he advised the Governor General to dissolve Parliament immediately after being sworn in. If Brian Mulroney died, we'd have the blurb conversation. There's no discussion to be had here. power~enwiki (π, ν) 21:50, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah oh Turner was one of those weird care-taker PMs I guess we'd NOT have the blurb convo for Kim Campbell either. Withdrawn. --LaserLegs (talk) 21:56, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 18

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September 18, 2020 (2020-09-18) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Stephen F. Cohen

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Article: Stephen F. Cohen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Prominent scholar of Russian studies. Article appears in good shape. Newyorkbrad (talk) 02:03, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted, Closed) Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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When the discussion reaches such lengths, it is time to close. Yes, probably posted before the editors from Europe and other parts of the world woke up to comment. Yes, arguments made to pull and move to RD. But now additional support for original posting has gathered so I don't think it makes sense to debate further - we are not going anywhere. --Tone 17:11, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 
Article: Ruth Bader Ginsburg (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  American Supreme Court justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg (pictured) dies at the age of 87. (Post)
News source(s): NYT, CNN, The Hill
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Very breaking news still. Article is a GA. -- a lad insane (channel two) 23:41, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • She was an incumbent also massively impactful in law, growth of US liberalism, and pop culture. There's also the fact that most likely whoever is elected President in November will have to replace her, and that will be crucial to American law going forward. Kingsif (talk) 23:53, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have to agree with GCG - massive ramifications for, well, how biased the SCOTUS gets in a time of political upheaval and pandemic that could have apocalyptic effects on US relations with the rest of the world, crisis management, upholding the constitution, and climate change. It's never good to see a legend like RBG go, but now is perhaps the worst time in human history, I mean this without hyperbole. Kingsif (talk) 00:18, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Good to see Mitch is still a man of principle.--WaltCip-(talk) 01:21, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
McConnell has put out a statement saying "President Trump's nominee will get a vote". And the WH says to expect a nominee in "the coming days". We will have a fight on our hands unless Democrats fold like a cheap suit again. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:23, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support for blurb - probably the only news item I've been moved to actually comment on in ... well, ever. Unfortunately, due to POLEMIC, I can't fully explain why, but this has made a dangerous time for the entire world even more dangerous. If the goal of an ITN blurb is providing good content on timely subjects, then I cannot fathom not posting a blurb. On a less screechy note, this was kind of a "Death of Fred Rogers"-level gut punch. I wish I had 10% of her integrity and 10% of her drive. Fuck you, 2020. Fuck. You. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:32, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm expecting frogs myself —valereee (talk) 01:41, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly support retaining blurb. Ginsburg was an exceptionally important justice and for many years was almost surely the best-known judge in the entire world. Even apart from her significant personal accomplishments, her death at this particular time and the debate that will now follow over whether and with whom to fill the resulting vacancy will be a prominent news story both within and beyond the United States for weeks to come. Either of these grounds would be sufficient, in my mind, to justify a blurb; the combination of the two is compelling. Newyorkbrad (talk) 01:50, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd like to see McLachlin or Lady Hale get a blurb as well when it's their turn, thank you. Like it or not, some degree of systemic bias is at play here, as evidenced by the number of American editors here. feminist (talk) 01:56, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I am somewhat confused by what appear to be conflicting standards here. We did not blurb the death of Justice Scalia four years ago, though he was certainly a far more significant figure on the court. Even his critics admit that Scalia profoundly affected legal jurisprudence and philosophy in ways that few justices have in the entire history of the court. I don't want to denigrate the memory of Justice Ginsburg, but her legacy is likely to be in her dissents. It is extremely difficult to look at the way these two nominations have been received without suspecting a certain level of ideological partisanship. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:59, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Scalia was probably worthy of a blurb as well, but it's hard to define precise standards about something (the death of a sitting U.S. Supreme Court Justice) that has happened just three times in the past 50 years. (I also think you err in placing Ginsburg's overall influence on a lower tier than Scalia's, in part because Ginsburg's pre-judicial work had a long-term impact that Scalia's did not, but this isn't the place for such a debate.) Newyorkbrad (talk) 02:08, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • In addition, so far as I am aware, Scalia didn't have his own biopic. See On the Basis of Sex. For the record, I would have blurbed Scalia. BD2412 T 02:14, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • Actually, I think we got it right with Scalia. He was a towering intellectual giant of the law in this country. But he was a US Supreme Court Justice. We don't post them for the same reason we don't post justices from other countries. I think we are demonstrating an absolutely breathtaking level of bias here, both US and ideological. If this stands, we are going to have a hard time saying no with anything resembling a straight face when distinguished jurists from other countries die. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:23, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • Ad Orientem, and if those distinguished jurists get their deaths announced the way this is being announced -- front page news with major headlines and top-of-page placement -- we absolutely should blurb them too. Bader Ginsburg was known for more than simply being a jurist. Have you looked at the 'in popular culture' section of the article? She wasn't just another distinguished jurist. —valereee (talk) 11:25, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Exactly, we would not have posted this even if it was a serving chief justice from another country. The way this was rushed in just minutes after the nom is a classic example of bias of both numbers and admin scrutiny (but we have people here coming at you for pointing that out). This is what RD is for. Gotitbro (talk) 02:52, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb She the leading story on BBC.com (I'm accessing from outside of US). Seems some !votes want to rewrite the cultural impact of this female justice.—Bagumba (talk) 02:57, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • She is most certainly not the lead story on BBC News; you might be outside the US but you presumably at some point set a cookie to prioritise US news. (Her death does get a one-line mention below the fold, but below "Stolen books found under Romanian floor".) I doubt one person in a hundred outside the US has ever heard of her, any more than a typical American could name even the most prominent member of the Chinese supreme court. ‑ Iridescent 05:29, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The blurb's been up for a few hours now, we're getting to the point where enough people have seen the blurb for its removal to be seen as commentary. Either pull immediately and wait for further consensus, if the support for its blurb is waning, or keep it up until it rolls off.  Nixinova   T   C   03:07, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment Good on you to promote this to the main page in the record time of 23 minutes while most of the world outside of the Western Hemisphere was asleep. I knew Wikipedia had a strong U.S. (and also U.S. Democrat) bias, but this is on a whole new level of r-tardation. --Anon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.74.201.241 (talk) 03:49, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose current blurb It has been changed recently to include a note about her activism, without consensus. Call for it to go back to the simplified form. 198.48.143.196 (talk) 05:11, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull I'm really not seeing the significance here—this seems to be a Prince-style railroading of the process by fans of the subject. As per everyone else, given that we wouldn't even consider posting the death of even the most prominent judge in any other country the onus is on those wanting to break precedent to explain why. ‑ Iridescent 05:29, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull Great woman with laudable accomplishments (and well written article too), but this is a local news only (not even on the frontpages in my country). Pavlor (talk) 06:15, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    This. Here in Russia even the business dailies (e.g. Kommersant) that generally follow the U.S. politics quite keenly (for obvious reasons) wrote 2-3 sentences (if any) about her death. Let alone posted the story on their main pages. --Anon
  • Strong support the inclusion of the note about her death on the main page. The event is causing undeniable worldwide repercussions. Even the speaker of the Brazilian parliament released an statement on her death, which is highly unusual. Érico (talk) 06:32, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull 1) Procedural: blurbs shouldn't be posted after 20 minutes, and 2) local news, neither the subject nor her death is significant enough to rise to the level of a blurb. Isa (talk) 06:35, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb. I think this meets the two RD blurb criteria in that the death, because of its effects, is arguably the main story, and because RGB is a major, transformative figure in her field (and maybe beyond). I'm not sure Scalia is the best comparison here because his death was before the 2016 overhaul of RD to remove the requirement to meet some intermediate level of notability above the typical biography. Since then, both RDs and blurbs have become more common, which is a positive trend, and Scalia would much more likely be (correctly IMO) blurbed today than in 2016. I also don't think that this is necessarily opening the floodgates given the circumstances of the death and the uniqueness of RBG. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 06:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Per apparent reasons. Per global legal influence. Per the numerous citations in non-US court opinions. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 06:50, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull per Ad Orientem and Iridescent, mostly. This is just ridiculous. I recognise the ramifications this has for the USA but this is still just domestic stuff that has little to no global significance. How this made a blurb and will remain for the foreseeable future amounts to WP:FAIT IMO, and I would have expected the admin/s involved to know better. Usedtobecool ☎️ 06:56, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    If we pull this, we can never again justify posting a death. We would retire the practice of blurbing a death, once and for all. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 07:01, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Consider giving this article a read: Logical fallacy --Anon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.74.201.241 (talk) 07:11, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    That would include The Queen. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 07:14, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull and Oppose, US only.--Joseph (talk) 07:20, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull This is too much of a domestic issue. Basil the Bat Lord (talk) 07:29, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull and oppose blurb. It is incredibly hard to believe that a Supreme Court judge in any other country would be blurbed if they were to die. This woman is no more special than a judge in other countries. The fact it was posted as a blurb after less than 30 minutes of the nomination is just ridiculous. Chrisclear (talk) 07:30, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. "Please do not oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive." 331dot (talk) 07:32, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull and move to RD. After some deliberation this morning I think I concur with the no-blurb arguments here. It is in the news, certainly, and yes, there may be ramifications beyond the usual Supreme Court deaths in terms of her succession. But such ramifications are not covered in the blurb, and furthermore it's hard to dodge accusations of partisanship, since we did not blurb Scalia and we also pulled the appointment of Kavanaugh to the court, both events of similar note to this one but affecting right-leaning justices. On a personal level I have immense respect for Ginsburg and everything she stood for, and I hope she can be replaced with a similar progressive justice. But as noted above she objectively spent much of her time fighting on the minority opinion, and ultimately her global influence was not of the Thatcher/Mandela level.  — Amakuru (talk) 07:37, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Could I kindly request that editors avoid using proper nouns and acronyms such as (but not limited to) "SCOTUS", "Scalia", "Kavanaugh" without providing the context/background/meaning of these terms? Chrisclear (talk) 07:43, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
People should keep in mind that this is a global website, but all of those terms lead to the proper articles in the Wikipedia search bar. 331dot (talk) 07:58, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That may be true, however, it shouldn't be incumbent upon the average reader to do extra reading/research to understand what another editor is saying when they use regional jargon without explanation/clarification. Chrisclear (talk) 08:01, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. As always this is "not a vote," but for the record as of now I count 25 editors supporting a blurb and 12 opposed. Having read through the comments made after mine, I stand by my thoughts above: either Ginsburg's life and work, or the controversy that will arise from her death, would justify a blurb; the combination of the two make a compelling case for one. Newyorkbrad (talk) 08:08, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    "Her life and work" were no more or less momentous than Scalia's. They were both passionate justices with a long history of fighting for the causes they believed in. (And, as an aside, they were also great personal friends, in one of the rare heartwarming stories of the poliarised political spectrum). Scalia's death also triggered intrigue and drama over his replacement. Perhaps we should post all such stories, I would have said so in 2016 or 2018, and I'm not an anti-US stories zealot. But we cannot be seen to be selective about which ones to post and which to reject, that violates the neutral point of view.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:23, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's actually a very interesting metric; maybe that's been used before but I don't recall it at this moment. 331dot (talk) 08:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull and shift to RD - US-centric news that has very little to no significance worldwide, it would be better off as an RD. Decision to post was done without adequate input from worldwide editors. Droodkin (talk) 08:38, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Droodkin As stated above, ""Please do not oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive." There is no requirement for worldwide significance, and no arbitrary minimum discussion time to allow for worldwide input. 331dot (talk) 08:47, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't it interesting how that is only ever applied to US stories? Fgf10 (talk) 09:09, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fgf10 I respectfully disagree with you that is the case. I personally support or oppose regardless of the nationality of the story. 331dot (talk) 09:12, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support retaining blurb - Ruth Bader Ginsburg is one of the most well known figures in American politics, and the most famous Supreme Court Justice on the bench. I would wager that even many non-Americans know who she is. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 09:06, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull deliberately prematurely posted in the middle of the night to avoid any real discussion. Not a head of state or similar, not an unexpected death, and domestic navel-gazing in the extreme. Systematic bias in action. This is why ITN is a joke. Fgf10 (talk) 09:09, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fgf10 It was not "posted in the middle of the night" in some deceptive manner. I invite you to nominate what you see as under-posted subject matter; we can only consider what is nominated. 331dot (talk) 09:14, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what counts as "in the middle of the night", as it's always nighttime somewhere on Wikipedia. It certainly wasn't deliberately posted early; Ginsburg's death was announced around 7:30PM Eastern Daylight Time here in the US, or 30 minutes to midnight, UTC. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 09:25, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wiki operates on UTC, so yes it was late at night. It was posted when most US posters would be around and most European posters wouldn't be. The correct procedure would be to wait till everyone would have had a chance to weigh in, rather than quickly posting it before any opposition would be around. Fgf10 (talk) 10:10, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fgf10, that is an extreme failure to assume good faith. It was posted quickly because the death got immediate coverage all over the world and the article was in good shape. And FFS, do you understand how "night" works? The death was announced when most US posters would be around and most European posters wouldn't be, I'm sure in an intentional gaming of the ITN system. —valereee (talk) 11:36, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(Combined your misplaced comments) No need to get personal, I didn't either. I'm merely stating facts, posting before people have had time to oppose is a common tactic on ITN to get contintious noms through. The time of announcement is entirely irrelevant, as it is good custom on ITN to allow sufficient time for everyone to weight in, as ITN is not a news ticker. This was clearly not done in this case, as I said in my post, which you conveniently entirely ignored in favour of a personal attack. Fgf10 (talk) 12:44, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You wrote deliberately prematurely posted in the middle of the night to avoid any real discussion. How is that not assuming bad faith? You literally are saying the poster was deliberately trying to avoid discussion. That's practically the definition of assuming bad faith. —valereee (talk) 16:49, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep posted It's strange for me (in Britain) to see that so many in the US seem to think this isn't of world importance. Her death is reported above the main headline in the Guardian, and is at the top, but smaller photo and typeface, in the BBC and Times. In the Telegraph the report is further down. For me she was more significant than Scalia and most world political leaders – perhaps that is because I am older than most people here. I'm discounting the US political squabbles that are arising because I don't know how they'll pan out. Thincat (talk) 09:31, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull and shift to RD This story about his death is relatively unknown outside the United States and other English-speaking countries. Apart from this, this article is relatively good shape and this is a one of many GA nominated articles to be posted in RD. 118.96.188.179 (talk) 09:34, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Without commenting on overall appropriateness (in regard to precedents etc.), "and advocate for women's rights" makes the blurb unwieldy. — Godsy (TALKCONT) 09:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull - She is just an unheard of judge that died of old age. No way near a world-transforming figure. --119.157.255.15 (talk) 10:01, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull I fail to see any clear indication that she was a world-transformative figure in any field. There is no information in the article of any famous concepts and ideas that she has come up with and are now globally accepted or any works she wrote and are now considered seminal learning materials in any branch of law. She was definitely an excellent practitioner but blurbs are for people who change the world and impact a large number of people. This is a classical example of an "injustice" to all other famous people who recently died and did not get a blurb.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:14, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, largely based on her "celebrity status" rather than her strictly legal importance and on article quality. However, I really hope that 30 minute nom-to-post discussions do not become the norm. We are an encyclopedia, not a news ticker. Aside from the global implications, it does not provide an opportunity for all viewpoints to be expressed as supporters will always rush into a nomination like this. Could we introduce a minimum 5 or 12 hour rule, or something? —Brigade Piron (talk) 10:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is a very good suggestion. I'd let no minimum time only for ITNR items. For all other nominations, having a minimum time for discussion before posting is strongly required.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:36, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Brigade Piron, I don't think 30-minute nom-to-post is actually a problem when we've got an article in good shape. 30-minute-nom-to-blurb probably shouldn't be the norm; in this case we had coverage just that fast in major outlets around the world, including in places it was night lol, so we had evidence it was global news. —valereee (talk) 11:04, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Valereee, I agree - RD does not have the normative "significance" connotations of other ITN applications and does not need other safeguards. As for this kind of nom, there is a common phenomenon of people hearing of "Event Y" and heading straight here to nominate/support it. The same does not often apply to people who disagree, even though they are more numerous. How would this proposal be raised for discussion? —Brigade Piron (talk) 12:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    There was never really any question that this would be global news. There are plenty of items we do not post dispite it being global news. The problem here is what has happened was sadly predictable. A well known subject matter related to the US (or even more generally the English speaking Western World), a few support resulting in posting soon after nomination, and then the rest of the world wake up / get home from work crying (not unfairly) systemic bias. There's rarely that many news item that's truly SNOWBALL post blurb. A few hours wait to make sure doesn't hurt the encyclopedia. -- KTC (talk) 11:18, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong pull per Kiril S. No clear indication of world transformation in the field in terms of technical/pedagogical contributions etc Bumbubookworm (talk) 10:47, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Ginsburg's importance had little to do with her "technical/pedagogical contributions". Particularly in the latter years of her life, she grew to be regarded as a feminist cultural icon, sombody who, by her life's example and her persona, transformed the relationship between men and women and changed women's place in modern society. Or at least made a damn good run at it. How many other people could we say the same about? True, she was much better known in the English speaking world, or perhaps the western world more broadly, than in places like Russia or China. But I don't think that for an ITN blurb we should require Jesus Christ like fame. Wikipedia is often accused, sometimes fairly, sometimes not, of not doing enough to attract women editors, to promote topics of importance to women, of making them feel welcome here. Well, now is that chance, Let's not blow it. Nsk92 (talk) 11:07, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Based on the concerns raised regarding the speedy decision-making on nominations and Brigade Piron's suggestion, I have formally proposed the introduction of minimum time for discussing non-ITNR nominations before posting.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:14, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I was one of the first supports for a blurb, and generally oppose things for US bias. Like John Lewis, where there were quite a few quick opposes because people were thinking of that. That is to say, US bias in supporting a blurb here was considered (at least by me) before realizing it was worth blurbing anyway. And a lot of the opposes/pulls are either screaming US bias just because without realizing that her death (the news specifically to be blurbed, rather than the person) has significant international ramifications - not that such is truly required for ITN - or are asking where Scalia's blurb was. It seems he missed out because it wasn't a dangerous time nor did he have the notoriety in popular culture that The Notorious RBG did/does. And I might have supported Scalia, and I would probably support Lady Hale (but I know that she's barely known outside the UK and so a long shot). And, if you have social media, I assume you're seeing what I am: literally nobody is talking about anything else. Kingsif (talk) 11:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Kingsif, also Scalia's death didn't represent a change to the balance of the court. As you say, there's apparently no need for an 'In popular culture' section in his article. :D —valereee (talk) 11:58, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Don't blame the rest of us for the poor fucntioning of your overly politcised judiciary. If a nom has to rely on knowledge of obscure legal minutiea of a domestic court system, I don't see why it's of sufficient importance to be posted here. Fgf10 (talk) 12:47, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The nom doesn't rely on SCOTUS balance - that was an additional comment to an additional comment, nowhere near the main significance here and you know it. Kingsif (talk) 13:16, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fgf10, sorry, not following, whom am I blaming and what am I blaming them for? Oh, I see...you're talking about the fact Scalia didn't change the balance of the court. Well, you don't actually need to know obscure legal minutiae in order to understand that the most powerful person in the free world, who happens to thinks that because he believes something makes it true, unleashed because he no longer has to worry about re-election, unchecked because he has appointed half SCOTUS, is worrisome to many people outside the US. South Korea, for instance. Pretty much anyone in conflict-torn countries south of the US-Mexico border. Europe. Pretty sure he'll ignore Africa except to eliminate any foreign aid. But I don't blame anyone for that except maybe Newt Gingrich. —valereee (talk) 13:22, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'll stress again that we need to hold back on rushing to post blurbs particularly on figures that are tied to a specific national interest; 20 minutes is far too short and ITN is not a news ticket. RD posting in that time was fine, the blurb can always be delayed. Cases where the nationality is not an issue and a SNOW-like agreement comes to fruition quickly eg like with Stephan Hawking), that's reasonable, but RBG is clearly something that would be of great import to USians but not necessarily to the rest of the world and we should have waited for some input from that side. Otherwise you create bad precedent. --Masem (t) 13:36, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree - but people thinking that the blurb should have waited shouldn't be calling to completely oppose it based on that expedience. Just a lesson to learn. Maybe a time limit for all blurbs should be set, because there are other issues quick posting of any story can create. Kingsif (talk) 14:09, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The death of a SCOTUS Justice in most other countries would not be important enough for us to post it. But the case of the US is different, as the SCOTUS has in practice much more power than the constitution courts in most other countries. Count Iblis (talk) 14:46, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – for retention of blurb – Justice Ginsburg's passing portends the probable creation of a U.S. Supreme Court dominated by right-wing conservative juridical views, and thus is quite significant. – Sca (talk) 15:04, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb as a non-US editor. This death is critical, not only to the upcoming US election which has the whole world watching, but also to the civil rights movement in general. This is important stuff, worldwide. – bradv🍁 15:15, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb among other things, the sources on her life indicate a leader on women's rights reaching international proportions, confirmed in the statements by world leaders about the death. -- Alanscottwalker (talk) 15:23, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per the many excellent points raised above. ZettaComposer (talk) 16:01, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, working to expand. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 16:24, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Justice Ginsburg is not a typical national judge. As NYB points out, she very well may be (and almost certainly was) the most well-known judge in the world. She probably deserves a blurb for her accomplishments alone; her death and the political fight over her replacement will dominate the news cycle up to and through the U.S. election, and would most likely merit a blurb as well. Regardless of our personal views on the matter, U.S. politics is covered in-depth around the world, and this event is clearly highly significant within that confine. CThomas3 (talk) 16:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Above - I had mentioned that for this to be "blurb-worthy" it ought to be top news in most places in the world. Then I said you'd hardly find any newspaper outside of the Anglosphere that treats it as "the" top news story. Today I checked Canada's national broadcaster CBC and Australia's most subscribed newspaper the Sydney Morning Herald. On CBC it is the ninth story and on SMH it shows up on the sidebar in a commentary article. It is easy for us to assume what this story means in terms of significance in other places around the world. Colipon+(Talk) 16:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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September 17

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September 17, 2020 (2020-09-17) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Robert W. Gore

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Article: Robert W. Gore (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN, ABC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Inventor of Gore-Tex. I will be improving sourcing. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 00:40, 21 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Joe Ruklick

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Article: Joe Ruklick (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Chicago Tribune, Northwestern Athletics
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Basketball player was credited with an assist on Wilt Chamberlain's last basket in his NBA record 100-point game. —Bagumba (talk) 18:03, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 16

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September 16, 2020 (2020-09-16) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

Sports

(Closed, stale) RD: Stanley Crouch

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Nomination is stale ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 06:02, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Stanley Crouch (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): National Public Radio
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American columnist, critic, and jazz writer KConWiki (talk) 17:11, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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(Closed, stale) RD: Maxim Martsinkevich

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Nomination is stale ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 06:02, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Maxim Martsinkevich (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Moscow Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Russian far-right agitator and real-life internet troll. Found dead in prison cell. Hrodvarsson (talk) 22:05, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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(Posted) RD: P. R. Krishna Kumar

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Article: P. R. Krishna Kumar (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hindu
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Padma Shri awardee, and Indian Ayurveda proponent. Article meets hygiene checks, but, I can take a look later this evening. If there are any recommended edits, we can have them covered.  Ktin (talk) 18:28, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Would need some updates regarding the death on the article. Juxlos (talk) 18:35, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Juxlos, Done. Updated with details on death; segmented the article for readability. Well sourced / cited. Ktin (talk) 19:27, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Bahrain+UAE–Israel agreements

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WP:NAC: Consensus to post will likely not emerge. First article was already rejected two days ago, while second article was already posted less than a month ago. —Bloom6132 (talk) 23:54, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Articles: Bahrain–Israel normalization agreement (talk · history · tag) and Israel–United Arab Emirates agreement (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Bahrain and United Arab Emirates sign peace agreements with Israel (Post)
News source(s): NYT Guardian NPR White House
Article updated
 A few days ago Bahrain one was rejected as too early. The treaty was signed on the 15th together with the actual signing of the UAE one. Articles are adequately expanded now. 2601:602:9200:1310:59E3:615D:B40F:3822 (talk) 18:09, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Strikes me as mainly political grandstanding. The UAE and Israel weren't at war, so how can they now proclaim 'peace'? – Sca (talk) 18:33, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I'm not a Trump supporter, but these are the first peace agreements signed between Israel and an Arab country since 1994, and these are first Arab nations to recognize Israel without being under the pressure of securing their own border with Israel. It's also a significant diplomatic development as the Arab nations had previously committed to refusing to recognize Israel until Palestine was independent. NorthernFalcon (talk) 19:51, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We posted the UAE agreement already and rejected the Bahrain agreement already. Why are we discussing this again. The Bahrain agreement article is all background and reactions with very little detail on the actual agreement. Both are vassal states doing what they're told. Let me know when the 1948 partition is restored and Syria gets the Golan Heights back. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:54, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That rejection was because it was too early, not because are not notable. No wonder u think Bahrain and UAE are vassal states. You probably hate the fact that there is peace. 2601:602:9200:1310:59E3:615D:B40F:3822 (talk) 22:08, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
About half of the original opposes were because of length (current article is mostly filler). As for your aspersions, there was no conflict so there isn't any new peace. Let me know when a country like Lebanon that's been repeatedly invaded by Israel piles on. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:23, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just like ITN posts gay marriage-related material repeatedly. 2601:602:9200:1310:59E3:615D:B40F:3822 (talk) 22:09, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I mean ITN has posted like 20+ gay marriage-related legalizations already. This is similarly official, and if you think the 4th such peace agreement is already not newsworthy... 2601:602:9200:1310:59E3:615D:B40F:3822 (talk) 22:06, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I easily found four which were nominated and not posted: no Germany no Denmark, no Pitcairn islands no UK perhaps you could cite the 20+ which were posted? Or find some other WP:OTHER to complain about. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:26, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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(Posted) RD: Saefullah

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Article: Saefullah (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [52]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Highest-ranked bureaucrat in Jakarta for the past 6 years or so. COVID-19 caused. Article is fresh off the presses but I think it should be long enough. Juxlos (talk) 17:33, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

yes. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 00:07, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Lamine Diack conviction

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(non-admin closure) Consensus to post will not develop.~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:45, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Articles: Lamine Diack (talk · history · tag) and Doping in Russia (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former president of the International Association of Athletics Federations Lamine Diack is convicted of corruption and coverup of doping in Russia. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former president of the International Association of Athletics Federations Lamine Diack is convicted of corruption and coverup of doping in Russia and sentenced to four years in prison.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Former president of the International Association of Athletics Federations Lamine Diack and five other people are convicted of corruption and coverup of doping in Russia.
News source(s): Telegraph, Guardian, Euronews
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Although the prison term is short, this involves a high-ranking sports official and bribery to cover up doping. The conviction and sentencing occurred simultaneously, it seems. Brandmeistertalk 16:29, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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(Closed, Stale) Human rights abuses in Venezuela

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Stale.~ Destroyeraa🌀 21:45, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Human rights in Venezuela (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A United Nations Human Rights Council fact-finding mission formally accuses the Venezuelan government of crimes against humanity, (Post)
News source(s): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-54176927
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Human rights report by the UN about an arguably rogue state. Seems like ITN material This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 14:27, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • What? This is about the article being COATRACK, which it isn't, because human rights abuses in Venezuela certainly happen. Nobody disputes the US sanctions are CAH, but it's a different story when it's a systemic government against their own people, which makes this declaration significant. Kingsif (talk) 12:22, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Article long and messy. TBH, What can the UN do about it? ~ Destroyeraa🌀 16:22, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle but weak oppose on article quality. Article needs updating and has too many "section needs expansion" tags. On a side note, the article is not a COATRACK as claimed above. Sometimes governments, even leftwing governments, end up as repressive de-facto dictatorships. The article is well sourced and the accusations against the regime are not coming from fringe or far right entities. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:27, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose sorry but we all know that whatever the United Nations declares is usually summarily ignored by certain nations on this planet. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 22:23, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Even if we occasionally disregard an orange tag once in a while, there are too many in this case. The article structure is very poor, and seems to be a portal or scratchpad for Human Right abuses in Venezuela. On my quick read, there were two (2) sentences delineating the actual human rights of Venezuelans, and a couple links to International conventions. That's the extent of actual content apropos the article title. As for impact, this is the Nth+1 time that such a report has been made. The bar for getting this topic into ITN is and should be a little higher.130.233.3.21 (talk) 04:41, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Even if this was to go through the blurb is very vague and needs to detail the exact happenings in Venezuela. Gotitbro (talk) 23:50, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – At 9,000 words, the article is overlong and diffuse. The occasional use of the present perfect continuous verb tense ("has been") is unencyclopedic. – Sca (talk) 13:31, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Ongoing: September 2020 Western United States wildfires

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Article: September 2020 Western United States wildfires (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Procedural nomination to confirm that the Wildfires remain in ongoing where I just moved it to as it dropped off as a blurb. Stephen 07:07, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:POINT.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

September 15

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September 15, 2020 (2020-09-15) (Tuesday)
Health and environment

International relations
Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Faith Alupo

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Article: Faith Alupo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [53]; [54]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Ugandan woman MP, died of COVID-19 at the age of 36. Career section needs a bit more flesh and bones, but will try to work on that today.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:39, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 14

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September 14, 2020 (2020-09-14) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
  • Four soldiers are killed during a raid at a house in north Lebanon in pursuit of a militant wanted in connection with a fatal shooting last month. The militant is killed during the raid, and is identified as Khaled al-Talawi, a former Islamic State member who formed a splinter terrorist cell. (Reuters)

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Bill Gates Sr.

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Article: Bill Gates Sr. (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): GatesNotes; Business Insider
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Father of Bill Gates. Death announced on Sept 15 (15mins ago).  Nixinova   T   C   22:27, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ralph Gants

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Article: Ralph Gants (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Boston Globe, Boston Herald
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Another judicial-related article that is admittedly on the short side. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 00:42, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) United Kingdom’s Internal Market

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WP:SNOW close. Continued trickle of Brexit changes, but nothing is happening immediately. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 04:40, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: United Kingdom’s Internal Market (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Britain’s plan for a post-Brexit settlement which deepens divisions. (Post)
News source(s): [55]
Credits:
Nominator's comments: It is a big topic in the United Kingdom, as well as a major event that will have a major effect on the functioning of the United Kingdom. It is also very controversial with both strong support and opposition creating tension within the United Kingdom, as well as causing collisions internationally with the EU causing making it a majorly polarised topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChefBear01 (talk • contribs) 20:15, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The United Kingdom’s Internal Market is the overall topic and you cant talk about one without the other, this is an ongoing topic that has been talked about since July 2020 and most likely to feature multiple times as it is something likely to need tweaking and therefore will fall into the news again in the future as well.
ChefBear01 (talk) 02:09, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I chose the June news article as it provided the greatest clarity and information available to ensure that people would be well informed, it is happening now with news providers talking about the United Kingdom’s Internal Market.
ChefBear01 (talk) 01:51, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - many thanks to the nominator for nominating this item, and for your interest in the in-the-news section. Personally I don't quite see this as being noteworthy enough for us to post though. I'm seeing stuff about this in the news, and apparently the bill may break international law in some way, but we've posted quite a bit of Brexit stuff already and this is really just one more stepping stone on that path. If the bill is passed and it sets off an international incident, then sure. Similarly, if talks break down completely and no-deal Brexit is suddenly the only way forward then maybe? But those would be things to assess on their own merits. For now let's wait and see. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 21:11, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment
United Kingdom’s Internal Market is mentioned in the news alongside UK Internal Market Bill, and is a significant change to the U.K. structure and the way intergovernmental relations work. The core of this is constitutional and an “internal matter” that is separate from Brexit, it has only recently been minutely connected to Brexit through 3 clauses deep in the schedules of the U.K. Internal Market Bill.
ChefBear01 (talk) 01:51, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The UK Internal Market Bill specially covers the legislative process and the [UK Internal Market]covers the History, principles and governance of the UK Internal Market.
ChefBear01 (talk) 02:09, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Phosphine detected on Venus

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Articles: Venus (talk · history · tag) and phosphine (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A team of astronomers reports detecting phosphine, a known signature of organic life, in the atmosphere of Venus. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A team of astronomers reports detecting phosphine, a possible signature of organic life, in the atmosphere of Venus.
Alternative blurb II: ​ A team of astronomers reports detecting phosphine, a possible signature of organic life, in the atmosphere of Venus.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Astronomers report detection phosphine, a possible signature of extraterrestrial organic life, in the atmosphere of Venus.
News source(s): BBC, Wired Science Magazine The New York Times The Atlantic MIT News Nature Astronomy
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Notable discovery that's getting a lot of play both on science news sites and mainstream news sites. Not a conclusive discovery of life, but the most significant development pointing to extraterrestrial life in many years. Kudzu1 (talk) 16:04, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose per now phosphine does'nt always have an organic origin, as it has been detected on planets like Jupiter and by an inorganic origin. In my opinion, there has to be more evidence that can confirm the finding as a possible biological origin.Alsoriano97 (talk)
  • Oppose per Alsorinao. Many possible sources for phosphine that do not require a biological origin, and the popular media is jumping on that link (similar to when we have discovery of water aspects on Mars, doesn't mean life is there, but there's conditions for possible, etc.). --Masem (t) 16:12, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Except this is different because that sort of thing happens all the time with Mars,but this is a first for Venus, and alters our perceptions of both Venus and the prospects for extraterrestrial life as a result. As such the media are right to hype it, and we are wrong to ignore it (at least in my view).Tlhslobus (talk) 18:39, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. Wait until the discovery is peer reviewed. Wait until any significant impact has happened to the people of Planet Earth. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 16:41, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • It is: the news is per publication of a Nature Astronomy article today: [56]. (This is nearly a requirement for any sci or med study to be based on a peer-review publication to start. The impact is the question then...) ---Masem (t) 16:43, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • And the new angle about waiting until an impact has happened to the people of Planet Earth is moving the goalposts. First, Joe Schmoe doesn't have to be directly affected by an astronomical event in order for it to be newsworthy. Second, there's no way to measure the actual scientific impact of what this means for humanity without sending probes to Venus, which won't happen in the window of time it takes for this blurb's newsworthiness to expire as far as Wikipedia is concerned.--WaltCip-(talk) 17:47, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It is unexpected news that has just made Venus a much more interesting place, and altered many people's perceptions of where life might exist, which is why it's in the news, and that is presumably why I got to hear about it from RTE (here) and rushed here to find out more about it, even though I was well aware that it will likely be years before its true origin is known. (Incidentally, those who claim the acidity of Venus's clouds is some kind of insuperable problem for life might want to give some thought to extremophiles in general, and to the Nobel-Prize-winning discovery of Helicobacter pylori in the supposedly impossibly acidic environment of our stomachs in particular) Tlhslobus (talk) 18:28, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This is interesting news. While it doesn't have to have a biological origin, it is known that microbes survive and reproduce in our atmosphere. Also it is known that impacts can cause rocks containing microbes to transfer microbes from one planet to another.S o, it's possible that microbes from Earth are alive in the Venusian atmosphere. Also it could be that life evolved on Venus and that Venus later became an inhospitable planet, bu with microbes still alive in the atmosphere. Count Iblis (talk) 19:16, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is interesting news and excellent ITN material of high encyclopedic value.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:26, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Fascinating news story and the article is FA. What's not to like? -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:57, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment While I would welcome more science news at ITN in general, I would really want editors who are knowledgable about this subject to weigh in on this discussion and evaluate the significance of this, much like Modest Genius did at the Ceres nomination a month ago. As WaltCip said back then, It's really a good thing we have actual scientists here who can let us know when we're falling prey to pop science journalism. TompaDompa (talk) 20:22, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The paper that elaborates the discovery is available here.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:28, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Certainly oppose the current blurb which implies there's life on Venus, which the article does not state. The abstract says that the concentration is unusually high and that they do not know the pathway how it formed. "PH3 could originate from unknown photochemistry or geochemistry, or, by analogy with biological production of PH3 on Earth, from the presence of life." So, if we post this, we should water down the hype a lot, which would make the blurb not very interesting (definitely not mentioning life in the blurb). Although this is a very interesting science story itself. --Tone 20:31, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose the current blurb, per Alsoriano97 and Tone, as it is sensationalist and implies a potential discovery of life on Venus. NorthernFalcon (talk) 20:48, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but with a slightly more cautious blurb. BlackholeWA (talk) 21:42, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I like the alternate blurb(s) better than my original blurb. Would support them over the one I wrote up as nominator. -Kudzu1 (talk) 23:46, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support either of the alternate blurbs. They communicate the discovery without sensationalizing. Radagast (talk) 23:49, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - the potential discovery of a substance known to only be produced in high quantities by living matter is definitely something newsworthy. -- Rockstone[Send me a message!] 00:04, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I don't see why not. Sure it's not confirmation, but it's a big signpost and it wouldn't be surprising if this causes a mission to Venus to be launched in the future. Banedon (talk) 02:10, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Important news that may renew interest in Venus. A slightly less implicative blurb should be used, however.  Nixinova   T   C   04:43, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alternative blurbs. Phosphine has been found on other planets, but my understanding is that those discoveries are explainable by something other than life and this one, so far, is not. The Moose 04:50, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurbs. A very cool discovery, and although I suspect we're going to learn more about exotic chemistry than we will about aliens, I still support it. Very nice articles both for Venus and Phosphine, and the similarity of those two names in antiquity piques my locutionophile side. Not mentioned in the Phosphine article is that the atmosphere of Venus is especially suited for reacting phosphine into other products, and the fact that any steady-state phosphine could be detected means that it is being constantly produced in abundance.130.233.3.21 (talk) 05:05, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support huge deal in astrobiology, even if it turns out to be a dud. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 06:03, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A major discovery. If a biosignature like this was detected on an exoplanet 1,000 lightyears away it would still be a pretty big deal and definitely newsworthy, but to find one in our own Solar System is beyond incredible. GWA88 (talk) 06:05, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support what's wrong with people here? This is the first not-so-subtle, actually credible, evidence of that "Earth is not special really". How can people oppose this but post "recurring" disasters that happen at a faster rate? Is this still an encyclopedia? 2601:602:9200:1310:301E:BD4D:7004:87B7 (talk) 06:08, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 06:25, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for posting. Just wanted to mention that the carbon-based life is not quite up to standards of the main page. I suggest Life on Venus as a much nicer alternative. 2601:602:9200:1310:301E:BD4D:7004:87B7 (talk) 06:39, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Was about to say that unbolded links don't need to meet the quality criteria but yikes that page is a mess, agreed.  Nixinova   T   C   07:50, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have to disagree. The "possible" is deployed exactly for this reason. The only reason such an assertion passed muster in peer review was because there is no known route to phosphine in the Veneral atmosphere. Phosphine is not exactly a niché compound; it has a very long history within chemistry and industry, lots of work has been put into producing and studying it. The Veneral atmosphere is loaded to the gills with sulfur oxides which should very aggressively react with phosphine. By all known chemistry, there should be no phosphine on Venus. The fact any could be detected means that it is being produced, and aggressively so, because the bulk atmosphere is perfectly suited to transform it to something else. So, we're left with two options: 1.) this discovery leads to a heretofore unknown mechanism to produce phosphine, or 2.) this discovery confirms what is known about phosphine, which also happens to suggest life outside of Earth.130.233.3.21 (talk) 05:00, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull Agree with Vorbis here, Wikipedia is not a popsci publication [where this news has gained traction], even stating "possible" seems to be stretching it based on current research. Gotitbro (talk) 05:12, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - agree with supportive comments above - "Alternative blurb" seems the current best - after all - seems phosphine was detected in the Venusian clouds, and, as far as anyone seems to know at the moment, phosphine may be a possible biosignature - Drbogdan (talk) 17:03, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support. This has certainly been in the news this week, and I don't agree that the blurb is overstating the matter. It reflects what sources are saying, which is that the discovery reflects a "possible" sign of life,no more than that.  — Amakuru (talk) 17:23, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I came here after seeing DV's post at AN. But I have to agree with Amakuru; the current blurb seems not to overstate the gist of what I've been reading about it. DV will have to elaborate, please! Usedtobecool ☎️ 17:34, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - the blurb is neutral and factual, and in the News. People will mostly definitely come looking for it. You can't explain why it's in the news without mentioning that it's a possible biosignature. ADS says I've never co-authored a paper with Jane, so I don't think I'm too in the tank. WilyD 08:46, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Although, yes, grammatically it needs to say possible. Phosphine is a known biosignature on Earth, so it is a known biosignature, but it needs to be worded carefully enough so it doesn't imply it's a known biosignature on Venus. WilyD 08:49, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is a biosignature also for Venus, but no single biosignature is absolute proof for the presence of biological processes. Ultimately, biology is nothing more than chemistry, and from only one biosignature it's difficult to rule out some alternative complex abiotic pathway that can explain the observation. Count Iblis (talk) 11:24, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So, I would say "A biosignature is something that is proof of biological processes", similar to the definition here: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/ast.2017.1729 ) It's a problem, that we don't really know what might be a clear biosignature, but that's something we're working on. Maybe it's just astronomer jargon, but it's clear that without qualifying it as "possible" or "potential", several people understood the phrase to mean proof of life on Venus had been discovered. WilyD 11:58, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Yoshihide Suga

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Articles: Yoshihide Suga (talk · history · tag) and 2020 Liberal Democratic Party (Japan) leadership election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Yoshihide Suga is to become prime minister of Japan following his victory in a party leadership election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Yoshihide Suga becomes Prime Minister of Japan, replacing Shinzo Abe. (For when he becomes PM)
News source(s): NYT, The Guardian
Credits:

Both articles need updating

Nominator's comments: We posted Abe's resignation, but precedent suggests we should also post Suga's inauguration, which will take place on September 16. (We posted Theresa May's resignation in May 2019 and Boris Johnson's inauguration in July 2019.) Davey2116 (talk) 06:45, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • There is no "Johnson precedent", we judge each nomination on its own individual merits. There are also powerless/puppet PMs. In Russia it depends on which office Putin decides to hold. There are reasons that we post heads of state that I won't repeat here. We post most changes in head of government as part of a general election, those that aren't part of one get evaluated on their own merits, and a party uncontroversially changing its leader, who will presumably carry out the same policies, counts for less IMO. 331dot (talk) 13:55, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is no insanity here other than expecting different results from revisiting the same issue over and over. 331dot (talk) 16:54, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well no, people come and go, or they stick around long enough to see that the status quo doesn't make sense. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:00, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The status quo may not make sense, but it doesn't follow that it makes sense to try to waste everybody's time trying to change it with little or no prospect of consensus on new wording, when any agreed new wording would likely just make a bad situation no better, and likely even worse. And especially not in this instance, because a new Prime Minister of Japan will almost certainly be posted regardless of what ITN/R says (the only question here seems to be when to post it, not whether to do so),provided it reaches the required quality. However you might be right to try to change ITN/R if and when it fails (for reasons other than genuine lack of quality). Tlhslobus (talk) 19:00, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 13

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September 13, 2020 (2020-09-13) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment
  • COVID-19 pandemic
    • COVID-19 pandemic in Asia
    • COVID-19 pandemic in Portugal
      • After twice in a single week reporting the biggest daily increases in new cases since the national lockdown was lifted in May, with 646 on Wednesday and then 687 on Friday, Portugal reports another high increase of 673 new cases and seven deaths, bringing the cumulative totals to 63,983 confirmed cases and 1,867 deaths since the first infections were detected in the country on March 2. The 2020/2021 school year is set to start in-person classes between September 14 and September 17 nationwide. (DGS) (DGEstE)

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Aline Chrétien

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Article: Aline Chrétien (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC News; CTV News / Canadian Press; The Globe and Mail
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 23:58, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Blurb/Ongoing: September 2020 Western United States wildfires

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Article: September 2020 Western United States wildfires (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 28 people have been killed and nearly 5 million acres burned by wildfires in the Western United States. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Wildfires in the Western United States kill at least 28 and displaces thousands, while burning millions of acres of land.
News source(s): CNN Express.co
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: This article is of much better quality than the 2020 California wildfires. Now burning in California, Arizona, Utah, Oregon, Washington, and Montana. Nominated per Coffeeandcrumbs and Cryptic. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:10, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Change to square miles (km²) cause we're in size of Wales territory here. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:57, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's moot now because we've got an enhanced image of Venus in the box, but a satellite photo was just fine for the Brazilian fires we featured last year --LaserLegs (talk) 12:26, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 12

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September 12, 2020 (2020-09-12) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Closed) RD: Jack Roland Murphy (AKA Murph the Surf)

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Stale. SpencerT•C 03:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Jack Roland Murphy (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Notorious criminal. Article is not in dreadful shape but a few cites needed. Ad Orientem (talk) 03:13, 15 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, "ib"?130.233.3.21 (talk) 04:48, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) 2020 California wildfires

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Superseded. Stephen 00:16, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2020 California wildfires (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 28 people have been killed, hundreds of thousands displaced and thousands of property destroyed by wildfires burning in California, Oregon and Washington State (Post)
News source(s): CNN, BBC News, Guardian, AP
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: It's a huge current event affecting millions of people in USA and Canada with wildfires and smoke. Efuture2 (talk) 02:58, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Agree re the article cited by Masem, and with removing "September" from the title, since the CA fires have been going on for two-plus months. We also could change "United States" in the title to "U.S." or just drop it. (Where I live, in SW Idaho, we've been plagued with varying degrees of "smaze" for weeks. It's gotten worse since Oregon blazed up. This too shall pass, but not soon.) – Sca (talk) 14:49, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In titles, we should always spell out "United States" unless it is part of an official abbreviation or the like. --Masem (t) 16:46, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's really not necessary. Cf. 2020 California wildfires. – Sca (talk) 17:27, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for a range of reasons. As noted above by Cyclonebiskit, there are numerous redundant content forks resulting in 19 articles, many of which lack the content that one should see in a standalone article. The proposed nomination is for a blurb which links to wildfires, California, Oregon and Washington State. The Wildfires link is problematic as it is a redirect, and the Washington State link is problematic as it is a disambiguation page. Regardless, none of these four articles are particularly notable to the specific 'news' under discussion, ie, wildfires in those locations. Finally, the blurb does not mention the country in which this weather event is taking place. Chrisclear (talk) 16:54, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
My my, such a litany of offenses! – Sca (talk) 21:38, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) U.S. Open

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Article: 2020 US Open (tennis) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In tennis, Naomi Osaka (pictured) wins the Women's Singles and Dominic Thiem wins the Men's Singles of the US Open. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In tennis, Naomi Osaka (pictured) and Dominic Thiem win the Women's and Men's singles events at the US Open.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In tennis, Naomi Osaka (pictured) wins the Women's Singles event at the US Open.
Alternative blurb III: ​ In tennis, Naomi Osaka (pictured) and Dominic Thiem win the Women's and Men's singles events at the US Open.
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Men's winner will be added to blurb tomorrow has been added. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 22:14, 12 September 2020 (UTC) [reply]

(Posted) RD: Mark Newman (baseball)

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Article: Mark Newman (baseball) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Yahoo Sports
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 20:20, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Navid Afkari

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Stale. SpencerT•C 03:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Navid Afkari (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN, BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: I only just heard about him, and the article is not great. I'm trying to look up things on his wrestling career. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:51, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Unfortunately the article has devolved into an NPOV train wreck. There is no possibility of it being posted in its current state. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:03, 17 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) RD: Terence Conran

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Stale. SpencerT•C 03:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Terence Conran (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Noted designer, businessman and restaurateur. 2A00:23C5:5082:6101:C8AC:F359:9B4A:FA9E (talk) 19:22, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose – a few places where sourcing could be improved, including several unsourced paragraphs in "work" section. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 22:27, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Agree with PCN02WPS, sourcing needs to be improved across the article. It also suffers from what Amakuru pointed out in one of the other articles, rather than coherent prose the article has a list of disparate bullet points (across sections). E.g. In 2008, the subject did this. In 2010, he did this. Ktin (talk) 00:41, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Cuties

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WP:SNOW. Good-faith nomination, but consensus will not develop to post this. TompaDompa (talk) 12:55, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Cuties (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ #CancelNetflix trends in the US over the release of controversial film Cuties in Netflix. (Post)
Article updated
Nominator's comments: Thr film is even criticised by US Congress. Congress asked Netflix to premiere the film before them. 175.157.70.238 (talk) 06:08, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: John Fahey (Australian politician)

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Article: John Fahey (politician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-12/former-nsw-premier-john-fahey-dies-aged-75/12657882
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Premier of New South Wales in the 1990s. Credited with bringing the Olympic Games to Sydney. President of the World Anti-Doping Agency. HiLo48 (talk) 04:09, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) 2020 Peruvian political crisis

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Wait for outcome. Stephen 04:24, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: 2017–2020 Peruvian political crisis (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Peru's congress launches impeachment procedures against President Martín Vizcarra (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Peru heads into a political crisis as congress approves impeachment proceedings against President Martín Vizcarra
Alternative blurb II: ​ President of Peru faces the possibility of removal after impeachment proceedings are approved by the Congress of Peru
News source(s): New York Times, Bloomberg, Washington Post El Comercio
Credits:
Nominator's comments: May be too insignificant? DoctorSpeed ✉️ ✨ 01:07, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment @User:power~enwiki It is the correct article. Please read it completely. DoctorSpeed ✉️ ✨
A two-sentence mention in an article about Coronavirus is really the best coverage there is, or is supposed to signify this is In The News? power~enwiki (π, ν) 02:36, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is a bit of a mess. The article identified at the top of the nomination as the one we are supposed to be looking at, is not actually linked in any of the proposed blurbs. What are we talking about linking on the main page in bold? -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:40, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose article is missing refs and has a stubby update. Clean it up, when the trial is concluded either way we can post a blurb --LaserLegs (talk) 09:47, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on the basis that Peru works like the US, this is only the start of a process, no former declaration of impeachment charges have been made (has had been for Trump). --Masem (t) 12:38, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In the case of Trump, they would not have started the process in the first place if they did not think they had a decent chance of success at impeachment(not the subsequent trial). The same may be true here. 331dot (talk) 06:47, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, so let's wait until the impeachment actually happens. --Rockstone[Send me a message!] 07:10, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 11

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September 11, 2020 (2020-09-11) (Friday)
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(Posted) RD: Kathy Bruyere

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Article: Kathleen Byerly (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Navy Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Was one of 12 women chosen as Time's women of the year for 1975. Was a plaintiff in a court case that led to women being permitted to serve on board ships. Article is still classed as a stub, but I believe that I have improved it sufficiently. (Our article was created under her first married name.) Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:19, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Bahrain–Israel peace agreement

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Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 04:22, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Bahrain–Israel normalization agreement (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Bahrain and Israel agree to normalize relations (Post)
News source(s): Jerusalem Post
Credits:

Article updated
 This follows the historic deal struck with the UAE, which was posted as a blurb. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 19:18, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with this, posting every small update on these US-backed agreements for Israel is too much. Either we don't post any update and keep waiting for other agreements to surface and post all updates at one go (but that perhaps is not really "in the news") or we stop posting this all together and only update this for major countries/agreements. Lastly, this agreement has not finalized yet and the full details are yet to emerge for it to be judged completely. Gotitbro (talk) 22:50, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We did start to roll back posting gay marriage legalization... --LaserLegs (talk) 23:56, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't noticed. That aside, this is in fact a highly significant develop with serious geopolitical implications. I suspect that it is paving the way for Saudi Arabia. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:08, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Saudi Arabia and Israel have already tacitly been allied for several years. An announcement at this point would be for little more than publicity. BD2412 T 15:21, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support article needs major expansion per above but the event itself is yet another historic breakthrough in the Middle East. Dan the Animator 19:05, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and wait last week there was a nomination for joint agreement economic between Serbia and Kosovo, and through an editor's fact-checking it was realized that the agreements were actually between the US-Serbia and US-Kosovo. At a minimum, we need to wait until September 15 to see the exact agreement that is signed this time. We are not here to promote an administration, but to provide proper news. Albertaont (talk) 01:29, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. This is not a peace agreement. While formally there was a state of war, in practice it was not all that different from countries imposing sanctions on Russia for annexing Crimea and its involvement in the conflict in Eastern Ukraine. Suppose that the EU lists sanctions against Russia with no improvement in the situation on the ground in Ukraine. Then no one would call any such agreement between the EU and Russia a peace agreement, it would be criticized as appeasement. Similarly the so-called "peace agreement" between Bahrain and Israel, and also the UAE and Israel is nothing more than an appeasement deal. The deal will end up strengthening the position of Iran, Russia, China and the EU, and weakening the position of the US in the Mid East, so it is a highly significant deal in this respect. Count Iblis (talk) 06:18, 13 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) RD: H. Jay Melosh

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Article: H. Jay Melosh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NAS
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Count Iblis (talk) 18:25, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Agnivesh

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Article: Agnivesh (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times of India, The Indian Express
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian activist Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:08, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. RIP. Clean article, nicely sourced for the most part. Works (i.e. Books and magazines) need sourcing (should be easy), and one round of copy edits (minor) will get this article ready for homepage. I can work on it later this evening. Ktin (talk) 19:11, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Follow-up: Fixed the pending citations (including the additional ones called out by PCN02WPS below), and also did a round of copy edits. The article meets RD standards and is good for the homepage. If someone wants any additional edits, I am around for sometime. Else, this is good to go. Ktin (talk) 02:04, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted to RD) RD: Toots Hibbert

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Article: Toots Hibbert (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Jamaican musician Toots Hibbert (pictured), known as a "Father of Reggae" and who popularised the genre name for reggae, died at the age of 77. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, Rolling Stone
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Reggae Legend 1I0I1I0I1I0 (talk) 09:35, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose for now - quite a few citations needed. I'm also not mad keen on the structure of the body, but I guess it's fine as a start class once the cites are sorted. For a guy who was at his peak in the 60s and 70s, by all accounts, it's strange that the 21st century section is longer. And the latter reads more like a bullet pointed list of tours and so on rather than coherent prose. The typical sort of thing that happens when miscellaneous titbits are added to an article over time, giving a skew towards the post-Wikipedia era! Compare the sizes of the sections Pete Sampras#Professional career and Andy Murray#Career for more evidence of this phenomenon.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:37, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Follow-up: Agree, Amakuru. The article needs work. Was actually shocked that the page was in the condition it is in given the prolific cultural contributions of the subject. Wanted to get this on the radar now regardless. I have done an initial pass but invite others to help refine and expand the page so it is suitable for inclusion. 1I0I1I0I1I0 (talk) 09:35, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 10

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September 10, 2020 (2020-09-10) (Thursday)
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(Closed) RD: Pamela L. Reeves

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Article: Pamela L. Reeves (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): WBIR, Knoxville News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Short but article is well sourced, died of cancer. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 01:37, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Alan Minter

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Article: Alan Minter (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 P-K3 (talk) 18:07, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • If you're referring to the Professional Boxing Record tables, they are cited, the reference is at the bottom of the section. The Olympic results section had a source for the medal bout, I have added a source for the earlier rounds.-- P-K3 (talk) 21:10, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Diana Rigg

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Article: Diana Rigg (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: aka Emma Peel from the Avengers. Article is woefully out of shape. Masem (t) 13:55, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is an RD nomination. AFAIK nobody has proposed a blurb. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:57, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ah OK, good point, not sure why I thought a blurb was being proposed. Striking this and will also oppose RD on quality, see below.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:44, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing: 2020 Bulgarian protests

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(non-admin closure) Consensus to post will not develop. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 15:46, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: 2020 Bulgarian protests (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:
Nominator's comments: This article is of much better quality and is updated more than the Belarusian protests. For the people who opposed the Belarusian protests removal, then they should support this addition, since this is better and updated more. Dan the Animator 20:31, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I think it's now too late for a sticky as these protests are losing momentum in the same fashion as those in Belarus but, anyway, it's a bit strange to me that this was not posted during its focal point about a month ago. At this stage, the only news that will merit inclusion is the resignation of the government as demanded by the protesters or serious escalations with many victims.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:48, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

September 9

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September 9, 2020 (2020-09-09) (Wednesday)
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(Closed) RD: Shere Hite

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Article: Shere Hite (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American-born German sex educator and feminist, known for the Hite Report. Drmab (talk) 14:06, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Chhetan Gurung

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Article: Chhetan Gurung (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Himalayan Times The Rising Nepal Khabarhub
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Nepalese film director and writer. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSAtalk 15:41, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: George Bizos

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Article: George Bizos (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press; BBC News; The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Bloom6132 (talk) 04:59, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. Article is reasonable but still needs some work. There is at least one "citation needed" tag and the prose is rather disjointed in the first two sections. I have had a go at the first section. Did he die in South Africa? —Brigade Piron (talk) 08:45, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ronald Bell (musician)

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Template:ITN candidate

(Closed) Ongoing removal: 2020 Belarusian protests

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

  • Cool, but I look at the Wikipedia article currently featured on the main page so if you can look at the edit history and let me know which updates about mass demonstrations I missed please do. I looked through every content edit for the last 10 days and except for protests this past weekend saw no "mass demonstrations" --LaserLegs (talk) 02:16, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh sorry I missed that, could you just link to the edit with the paragraph of new information about protests today? Or yesterday? or on the 5th? Just help me out because I couldn't find it. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:23, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cool so just help me find the edits made in 3 of the last 4 days (and ideally in the last 10 - 14 days) which are new pertinent information about protests and I'll concede that this nom was ill-conceived. I'm just applying the guidelines as currently written. --LaserLegs (talk) 16:37, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Drilling down on the "Europe" section of a half dozen news sites, I can find no mention of this (other that opinion/analysis day-two stories). Ongoing is to prevent continual posting of similar small events from the same larger event. If nothing happens that would even warrant a nomination, than it needs to come down. GreatCaesarsGhost 00:35, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Please reread my comment. I never said "no articles have not been written about this in the last week." GreatCaesarsGhost 11:02, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Great, thanks for clearing that up Banedon. Could you help me find the new, pertinent information about protests added to the target article? --LaserLegs (talk) 10:17, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I don't see anything important happening on a daily basis so that this should warrant inclusion as ongoing. If this gets removed from the ITN section, it doesn't mean that we no longer keep an eye on the protests but that there's not an update that should be permanently posted for a long period, which is exactly the current status of these events. Should anything significant happens in the period to come, we can always re-post this either with a blurb or a sticky.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:30, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, protests seem to be coming to a head at the moment. The foreign ambassadorial protests at the house of Svetlana Alexievich was widely reported across Europe this morning (see 1 or 2) and there has been prominent coverage of the arrest of other leaders around the world (examples 1 and 2). —Brigade Piron (talk) 09:54, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The last event update to the article was on 9 September (yesterday) which is too early for removal and the protests themselves are still ongoing. Brandmeistertalk 10:24, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thank you for at least looking at the article. That update was a video message of solidarity not a protest. As these things wind down the organizers will continue doing outreach and someone here will hyper-report it to the target article. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:33, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Not only that (and still, video messages are also part of the protests). Further per article, "The remaining two members of Belarusian opposition's Coordination Council, Maxim Znak and Ilya Saley, were detained the same day... As of 9 September Maria Kolesnikova remains in police custody on Volodarsky St, awaiting trial". Brandmeistertalk 11:42, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – Still a significant ongoing topic. [62] [63] [64] – Sca (talk) 13:19, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Still ongoing and very much in the news. Another opposition leader just got arrested. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 13:26, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Is it ongoing, yes. Is it ongoing and one of the top 3-4 items in the news today? No. Its exactly like the 2020 American racial unrests now, still going on but not the world's attention. Albertaont (talk) 18:25, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Only a few days a prominent protest leader was reported to be attacked/kidnapped. Still ongoing and clearly in the news. Gotitbro (talk) 20:53, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

(Posted; pulled;Closed) Ongoing: 2020 California wildfires

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

I will stress my Oppose here on quality matters. An article that is mostly a table of what fires are ongoing is not helpful, and the possible target that covers the number of West Coast fires at September 2020 Western United States wildfires isn't close at all to cutting it. --Masem (t) 21:35, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping The west coast is burning up! ~ Destroyeraa🌀 18:25, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping The Sudan Floods article got posted. Now these fires have burned over 3 million acres, caused over $800,000 in damage, and killed 12 people. Not significant enough for you??~ Destroyeraa🌀 21:59, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Strong Oppose typical for the West Coast and nothing seems special about these one's in particular (in contrast to the Sudan floods, which are actually historic). Will change to support if either a +100 people die or some large record is beaten. Dan the Animator 22:49, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Ping Wildfires May be typical for California, but certainly not for Oregon or parts of Washington. It has been on US and some international news for more than a week. Over 2 million acres have burned, even more than the 2018 California wildfires, where 1.something acres burned. 10 people dying from fires is considered a lot for developed countries. The Sudan floods are historic, but the article needs to be expanded. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 23:39, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping I just updated the article by adding some notable fires in a new section. Should be better now.~ Destroyeraa🌀 21:57, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
PS: — FWIW, German Wiki's ITN leads with the Calif. fires, noting that they are "the most extensive since record-keeping began"
(die größten seit Beginn der Aufzeichnungen). – Sca (talk) 13:45, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2020 California wildfires, August 2020 California lightning wildfires, September 2020 Western United States wildfires, SCU Lightning Complex fires, August Complex fires, CZU Lightning Complex fires, LNU Lightning Complex fires, North Complex (2020), Creek Fire, 2020 Oregon wildfires, 2020 Washington wildfires, 2020 Washington state Labor Day fires Chrisclear (talk) 00:13, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, Walt, that would mean a big boost in my WikiPay. – Sca (talk) 15:22, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, but ITN is not an encyclopedia, either. – Sca (talk) 12:43, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ITN absolutely is an encyclopedia, it is encyclopdic articles on current events that are of high quality and in the news. If you want just "in the news", Wikinews is that a way. --Masem (t) 12:54, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well, ITN functions as a window on – or portal to – the news, whether we like it or not. – Sca (talk) 13:09, 12 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Ping I’ve been working on the season article, but some editors don’t want to improve it. See the article’s talk page. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 16:14, 12 September 2020 (UTC)Template:Abot[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jakob Oetama

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Template:ITN candidate

(Closed) Kenosha protests

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

Protests. Not rioting.--WaltCip-(talk) 12:19, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

September 8

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2020 September 8 Template:Cob

(Posted) RD: Gene Budig

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Template:ITN candidate

(Closed) Navalny supporters attacked with chemical weapons

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Template:Atop Template:ITN candidate

PS: However, Der Spiegel is carrying an article saying (in German) that unidentified assailants in Novosibirsk attacked the office of Navalny supporters with a bottle containing a "a chemical substance," and two people were hospitalized. Sounds comparatively minor, so far. – Sca (talk) 22:28, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Abot

September 7

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2020 September 7 Template:Cob

(Posted) RD: Vaughan Jones

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) 2020 Jamaican general election

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Template:ITN candidate

*Oppose per John M Wolfson and LaserLegs. Dan the Animator 17:54, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Gary Peacock

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Template:ITN candidate *Weak Oppose missing 2 in text-refs. Once that's fixed this is good to go. Dan the Animator 23:16, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2020 Sudan floods

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Template:ITN candidate

The article also needs a copyedit for grammar --LaserLegs (talk) 10:14, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment needs expansion, not a stub, not really seeing the puff aspect of LL's elegant opposition. If a flood killed 101 people in Europe or America, it'd be main-paged in minutes. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 21:42, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support Mostly sourced, but missing a ref or two. Information is also a bit scarce; the main section lists "dozens" of deaths while the "100" figure is near the under of the "response" section, which is not very intuitive.  Nixinova   T   C   05:23, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose. I'm skeptical about the "disasterporn" aspect of ITN (natural disasters, mass casualty accidents, shootings, etc): while significant to the people involved, they are sadly a routine aspect of human existence and should only be posted if they are so exceptional as to make broad international headlines, which I don't see here. Sandstein 07:13, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now Tragic, but 99+ deaths in flooding/landslides happen often in underdeveloped countries. Article is rather stubby, needs expanison. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 15:10, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Template:Ping that's not the only reason why these floods are notable. These floods are more significant than other ones because: the longest (or one of the longest depending on your stance) rivers in the world (the Nile) reached the highest water level in over a century; for the first time in history the Pyramids of Meroë were threatened; and the rates of floods and rain exceeded the records set in 1946 and 1988. I think the first point in itself should be notable. Read the article in its entirety to fully understand the severity of the situation. Dan the Animator 22:28, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 6

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Template:Cot Portal:Current events/2020 September 6 Template:Cob

(Posted) RD: Mike Sexton

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Template:ITN candidate *Comment: Is it possible to please cite Early years section? -SusanLesch (talk) 03:20, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Oppose multiple missing in-text citations. Dan the Animator 17:55, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lou Brock

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Template:ITN candidate

(Posted) RD: Kesavananda Bharati

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Template:ITN candidate

  • Oppose no DOB, no early life, "basic structure" statement has 13 inline refs, the paragraph doesn't make clear if Kerala was imposing restrictions on him or an institution he represented, doesn't really indicate what he argued to persuade the court (given he "is acknowledged as one of the key actors" it should say more) and the article overall suffers from WP:PUFF and could use a copyedit for grammar. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:31, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Template:U, Done. Cleaned up the statement that had 13 inline refs. Now more manageable. Also added some more details of the arguments. Did a round of overall content cleanup to do away with WP:PUFF. Also see some streamlining by Template:U (Thanks!) I think, in the current state, the article should be good for RD. Ktin (talk) 15:49, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The article says " attempts to acquire the Mutt's property" and the Matha article says "math, matha or mutt, is a Sanskrit word that means "institute or college", and it also refers to a monastery in Hinduism.". So which is it? Did Kerala attempt to get the land of an institution or an individual? This always happens with these articles where someone points out specific grievances and those grievances are addressed but no one takes the time to actually make the article worth a damn. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:22, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Template:U, Mutt is the anglicized spelling of Matta or Math, and all three are perfectly right spellings as noted here Matha. Regarding, monastery vs institute / college -- I believe they would be both. Typically in these Mutts, as I understand, the monasteries also house centers of learning. Regarding the actual sequence of events, I learnt that the state intended to acquire the land that belonged to the Mutt (as stated in the article). As the chief / head pontiff of the Mutt, the subject of the article filed the petition in the Supreme court. [74] [75]. Ktin (talk) 22:37, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Cool, so which "Mutt" because that's what I have been trying to figure out. Not that it matters now I guess it's posted --LaserLegs (talk) 00:05, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Template:U, all three of the Mutts (Mutt, Matha, Math) are the same as indicated here Matha. Remember that these are transliterations of words from some of the Indic languages and hence the variations in spelling which do not mean much of a difference. Ktin (talk) 00:13, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Template:Re LaserLegs was asking about the specific type of institution the word means and which was represented in the court, in this case that would be a monastery of sorts. The meaning of the word should be explained in the article itself as well. Gotitbro (talk) 01:58, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Template:U, Not really. The distinction between monastery and institution of learning is usually fluid in Indic Mutts. I don't think you would be able to speak about one without the other in this case. Ktin (talk) 02:35, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Weak Oppose there is still a "needs additional citations" template. Otherwise, it's good. Dan the Animator 19:44, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Deadline for a post-Brexit trade agreement

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September 5

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(Closed) RD: Ethan Peters

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*Oppose per Yoninah. It is very stubbish. Dan the Animator 23:55, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Yo I tried expanding the article to include more about his style and origins. TJMSmith (talk) 03:11, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Jiri Menzel

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  • Comment. Article has only the lede plus filmography (including TV series). Might require restructuring to break the lede into the body of the article. Furthermore, the filmography section, and the TV series section does not have sources / citations. But, I think this can be remedied with some attention by the group here. Also, the talk page says that this is still in a "stub-class", this will need to be changed to atleast a "start class" prior to WP:ITNRD publish. Cheers.Ktin (talk) 19:24, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have taken a pass at organizing the article into sections, cleaned up the front end, and added a section for his roles as an actor. There is a stylization mismatch between filmography as a director, and as an actor -- If someone thinks this should be changed, please do so. If someone can take a pass at sourcing his filmography as a director, I think this article is close to being ready to go to the homepage. Ktin (talk) 01:43, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

* Weak Oppose filmography section and TV series section are still completely un-cited. Dan the Animator 23:20, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Template:U I'm still a bit hesitant. It's definitely better but there's a few films in "As an Actor" subsection that appear to be unsourced. There also seems to be more films shown in the list then the sources have (in As a Director sub-section). See my edits to the page. Will change once at least those are added. Dan the Animator 22:20, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Template:U, Oh that is an easy explanation. The sources added in the rows were only for those not already covered by the three sources above the table. If they were already covered by those (i.e. BFI, RT, and TVG). Last night we had added a citation needed against rows that were not covered by those three sources (that were added by Bloom). Subsquently Template:U filled those entries. Ktin (talk) 23:03, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 4

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(Closed) RD: Lloyd Cadena

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Good catch, I removed the copied material. TJMSmith (talk) 03:14, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Joe Williams

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(Closed) Kosovo–Serbia agreement

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The article's been substantially improved now.--Sakiv (talk) 14:53, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Reopened following premature non-admin closure; most of the opposes above concern article quality rather than clear notability issues. SpencerT•C 00:10, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose It is a notable event, but notability itself is not enough. We have an obligation to readers to present them with topics that have undergone fact-checking. I have raised a very serious issue on the talkpage: there never was a Kosovo-Serbia agreement. The Trump administration put forward that narrative likely for its own election-related reasons, but Kosovo and Serbia never signed an agreement with each other. Each signed a non-binding document with the Trump administration and delegations from both countries have stated that they never signed an agreement with each other. The title, the narrative and many other details must be fact-checked.--Maleschreiber (talk) 01:12, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose A glorified photo op doesn't deserve front page coverage. Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 19:34, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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(Posted) RD: David Graeber

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*Oppose Missing int-text refs. Dan the Animator 19:29, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 3

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(Closed) MT New Diamond

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  • Wait At this point, its not a "disaster" as such. No oil has spilled as they rush to contain the fire, and only one person on board is missing. It could get worse, but if all that this ends up one death but no ecological impact, that's not really a ITN event. --Masem (t) 17:22, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait One death. Wait until fire is under control-more info will come. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 17:24, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose death toll is a meaningless metric but the article is disjointed and stubbish. Write a paragraph or two on the vessel itself (builder, owner, laid down, etc). The problem with all of these articles is that they don't say much because not much is known and it'll either stay that way forever or it'll get expanded but by then it'll be opposed as "stale". Personally I don't like featuring these disaster stubs on the main page but it does seem to be the thing to do. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:35, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Oppose Let see if there is a spill or more deaths. Good nom on a developing story, but now apparent not ITN-worthy. Albertaont (talk) 19:46, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the sentiment, but that's a rather unfortunate way of expressing it? —Brigade Piron (talk) 21:25, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What's unfortunate is the event, not what we say here. – Sca (talk) 22:26, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
They're not mutually exclusive! —Brigade Piron (talk) 09:05, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's out. – Sca (talk) 14:31, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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(Posted) GW190521

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  • Technically the gravitational wave has been observed rather than the merger. Stephen 08:20, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I think that is a distinction without a difference. I am not writing this; I am typing it. You are not seeing this; the light is entering your eyes which sends a signal to your brain, which interprets the signals as sight. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 08:51, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Most of what's significant about this event is not yet captured in the page describing it. I aim to put some effort into that now; let's see how far I get. Nick Levine (talk) 08:51, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm a little happier about this now; I've captured what I thought was most important. I think it might be worth going ahead with announcing this, while it's fresh, even though the article could do with some more work (can't they all). Nick Levine (talk) 10:05, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is an interesting event, but one which has been overplayed in the media. The current blurb is misleading, as they were not IMBHs prior to the merger. The actual novelty here is finding a black hole in the mass gap, yet that's never mentioned in the article. Instead the article focuses on the idea that the product of the merger is an intermediate mass black hole, which depends on the definition you pick and the latter article shows there has been plenty of evidence of those before, even if it was more indirect. The EM counterpart stuff should be taken with a massive grain of salt; the association is far from proven. As an astronomer I find this very interesting, but I'm not convinced that a more accurate (i.e. toned down) article and blurb would appeal to ITN readers. Modest Genius talk 10:35, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
These black holes are not just in the mass gap, they're also in the range where they can conceivably constitute 100% of dark matter (see Fig 6 of [76]). I don't know what field of astronomy you're in but I'm finding this pretty damn exciting. Banedon (talk) 12:02, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That appears to be WP:OR, as I've not seen any reliable sources that explicitly link GW190521 with dark matter. Modest Genius talk 12:49, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
[77] see section 6.3 of the paper. It's not the only possible explanation, but it's a possible one, and it's pretty damn exciting. Banedon (talk) 13:05, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
One paragraph in the section on scenarios which are "disfavored either by the data, or by low prior probability of the alternative hypothesis, or by both". Modest Genius talk 15:37, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
They can't have written much more, given the unknown prior probability. Besides, anything they write except very general statements (which is what they've written) is likely to be wrong. They say as much, "we do not attempt to quantify such scenarios". You can be sure though cosmologists are going to be looking at the result, I already know some who are. Banedon (talk) 23:01, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose Pretty darn exciting. Nothing recent stated in blurb-needs to be updated. Article also needs to be expanded and updated with new info from new papers.~ Destroyeraa🌀 13:33, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Often scientific discoveries or conclusions from research are announced long after the actual findings, in order to allow for peer review and other rechecking. 331dot (talk) 13:36, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The results were published yesterday. It takes time for scientific results to be verified, analysed, written up, peer-reviewed etc. That it took a year to publish this event should not have any bearing on whether to feature it in ITN - the news is now. Modest Genius talk 15:34, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You might be looking at a wrong source - the NYT article is from June; it's currently September. Banedon (talk) 03:14, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No denying this isn't interesting or cool. Fascinating. However blurb needs to reflect something about the new scientific papers - all the blurbs say right now is that LIGO and VIRGO detected the merger, which happened more than a year ago. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 21:56, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Of course. It's called serving the reader. – Sca (talk) 22:28, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Template:U TRM -- do you believe that this is an article worth posting on ITN, but, the blurbs are not doing justice and hence the oppose? If so, it will require some collective effort, but, we can polish the blurb. However, if folks believe that the article is fundamentally not for the homepage, then, no amount of polishing the blurb will help. Ktin (talk) 23:24, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I like that idea. Posting. --Tone 12:58, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW - seems consistent with the following => According to astrophysicist Vicky Kalogera of Northwestern University, “This is the first and only firm/secure mass measurement of an intermediate mass black hole at the time of its birth ... Now we know reliably at least one way [such objects can form], through the merger of other black holes.”[13] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drbogdan (talk • contribs) 13:08, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment – Re "a black hole in the mass gap" – is this similar in its effects to the chrono-synclastic infundibulum? America wants to know. – Sca (talk) 13:58, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Maybe "An intermediate-mass black hole is observed…" would be less jargony? The "mass gap" is just "the range between 'small' and 'large' black hole masses", which, until now, no observed black hole has been in. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 00:32, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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September 2

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(Posted) RD: Wick Allison

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(Posted) RD: Tom Seaver

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(Posted) RD: David Capel

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(Closed) RD: Kang Kek Iew

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September 1

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(Posted) RD: Moose Lallo

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(Posted) RD: Lance Finch

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(Stale) RD: Erick Morillo

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(Posted) RD: Barbara Judge

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(Closed) China-India border skirmishes

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  • Oppose for the same reason as last time. The last skirmish was on June 15, everything since then is diplomatic bickering. Updates are hyper reporting now commentary about the Thai Canal helping China to "surround India". No thanks, not for OG --LaserLegs (talk) 00:03, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose has something changed in the last few months? Seems to get re-nomed every 3-4 weeks. Outside of India, doesn't seem to be ITN at all. Albertaont (talk) 07:34, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above and procedural note: The Template:Code field of the template is there so that editors can quickly get a feel if the current development is worthy of posting, and is especially helpful for long articles such as this one. It is a little off-putting to have to rummage through the article to find the current event which prompted this posting, only to find that it's an opinion piece.130.233.2.170 (talk) 10:45, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The article is good, but the most important parts of the event are not happening these days.--WEBDuB (talk) 17:00, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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